The Forestry Forum is sponsored in part by:

AVAILABLE


Forestry Forum
Sponsored by:


TimberKing Sawmills



Toll Free 1-800-582-0470

LogRite Tools



Norwood Industries Inc.


Sawmill & Woodlot Magazine



Your source for Portable Sawmills, Edgers, Resaws, Sharpeners, Setters, Bandsaw Blades and Sawmill Parts

EZ Boardwalk Sawmills. More Saw For Less Money!

STIHLDealers.com sponsored by Northeast STIHL


Woodland Sawmills

Peterson Swingmills

 KASCO SharpTech WoodMaxx Blades

Turbosawmill

Sawmill Exchange

BRUTE FORCE Authorized Dealer

Woodshax Outdoor Vending Solutions

FARMA


Council Tool

Baker Products

ECHO-Bearcat



Author Topic: This is what happens when you don't thin.  (Read 2615 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Haleiwa

  • member
  • *
  • Posts: 27
  • Clinton county, New York
    • Share Post
This is what happens when you don't thin.
« on: September 27, 2018, 04:42:23 AM »
About 25 years ago, when sugar production collapsed in Hawaii, thousands of acres on Big Island w

 

 ere planted in eucalyptus trees.  The plan was to thin them for chips in five years, but the Japanese chip market fell apart, and they were left too thick.  Now they are not even worth chipping for the Chinese market.  Many of them are approaching 200 feet high and are essentially worthless.
Socialism is people pretending to work while the government pretends to pay them.  Mike Huckabee

Offline Dan_Shade

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 5254
  • Age: 44
  • Location: Lexington Park, Maryland
  • Gender: Male
  • I don't want to edit my profile!
    • Share Post
    • Shade Custom Sawing
Re: This is what happens when you don't thin.
« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2018, 05:58:14 AM »
What is the diameter? 

I don't know anything about eucalyptus, but those sure are straight trees. 
Woodmizer LT40HDG25 / Stihl 066 alaskan
lots of dull bands and chains

There's a fine line between turning firewood into beautiful things and beautiful things into firewood.

Offline Cedarman

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 6013
  • Age: 71
  • Location: Marengo In
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
    • Cedarusa
Re: This is what happens when you don't thin.
« Reply #2 on: September 27, 2018, 06:11:28 AM »
Can eucalyptus be pressure treated and used for fence posts?  Either round or sawed square.
I am in the pink when sawing cedar.

Offline Riwaka

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 318
  • I'm new!
    • Share Post
Re: This is what happens when you don't thin.
« Reply #3 on: September 27, 2018, 07:41:14 AM »
I see at least 12 different Eucalyptus species listed for Hawaii. 
Depends on what species they are; what the potential use or not may be.
Eucalyptus sideroxylon is one that might be near the top of a search list.
 https://www.woodsolutions.com.au/wood-species/ironbark-red

Some species of Eucalytpus have been treated cca, creosote etc. Some post users looking for naturally durable posts now even if they are untreated and don't last as long - untreated might be burnt or composted where as toxic chemically treated posts can cause problems/ expense.

Offline tacks Y

  • Full Member x2
  • ***
  • Posts: 214
  • Location: NW Pa
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm new!
    • Share Post
Re: This is what happens when you don't thin.
« Reply #4 on: September 27, 2018, 07:57:12 AM »
I don't want to pith in any ones pool but the look closer to 100 feet.

Offline petefrom bearswamp

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 3306
  • Age: 81
  • Location: Finger Lakes region of NY
  • Gender: Male
  • made 70-11 and still feelin pretty darned good!
    • Share Post
Re: This is what happens when you don't thin.
« Reply #5 on: September 27, 2018, 08:02:44 AM »
Dont know about Hawaii but utility poles here are typically 35 45 feet length and 6 ft or so in the ground.
Using a max of 40 plus above grd I figure 65 70 ft tall max.
Looks like a lot of biomass to me.
But not knowing markets there I may be full of bull tookie
LT40SHDD51
Kubota 8540 tractor, Farmi winch
Kubota 900 RTV
Polaris 550 Sportsman ATV
1 Husky 1 gas Echo 1 cordless Echo
241 acres of woodland

Offline Southside logger

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 3040
  • Age: 46
  • Location: Wilsons (Dinwiddie County), VA
  • Gender: Male
  • Have a plan to saw every log you meet.
    • Share Post
Re: This is what happens when you don't thin.
« Reply #6 on: September 27, 2018, 08:18:06 AM »
Looks like a lot of straight and clear lumber there. Tight rings? Is the stuff tough enough for flooring?
Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
Enough cows to ensure there is no spare time.

Offline Wudman

  • Forester
  • *
  • Posts: 406
  • Age: 51
  • Location: Keysville, VA
  • Gender: Male
  • Eat, drink, and be merry before you go on quota!
    • Share Post
Re: This is what happens when you don't thin.
« Reply #7 on: September 27, 2018, 09:16:42 AM »
The problem with the Hawaiian Islands is lack of processing facilities.  We acquired some dirt there (old sugar plantation) in a larger global acquisition, and promptly sold it due to lack of markets.  If you factor in $150 / ton freight for export, there isn't a lot of financial incentive to work in that market.

Wudman

Offline Haleiwa

  • member
  • *
  • Posts: 27
  • Clinton county, New York
    • Share Post
Some replies
« Reply #8 on: September 27, 2018, 09:53:05 AM »
These are not robusta, although I don't know which species they are.  This particular species is a coarse, open grain that is mediocre lumber at best.  It is so wet that cut logs drip water.  As posts or poles the lifespan untreated is measured in months, not years.  This is a crop intended for fuel wood, and the cost of harvesting and shipping the toothpicks is more than the market will bear.  This location is around 100 feet tall.  The tallest trees are at a different location, but these are next to the road.
I was not involved in this project, but was on the site several years ago as a consultant for a power plant that looked at them as a potential fuel source. They were way too thick back then.  I just happened to drive by them the other day and took the picture.
Socialism is people pretending to work while the government pretends to pay them.  Mike Huckabee

Offline mike_belben

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 3552
  • Location: Middle TN
  • Pulp Friction
    • Share Post
Re: This is what happens when you don't thin.
« Reply #9 on: September 27, 2018, 11:14:23 AM »
So now all theyre good for is piling in the water to make artificial surf breaks.  Then build mana pua gentry on the site. 
Revelation 3:20

Online kanoak

  • member
  • *
  • Posts: 29
  • Location: Holualoa, HI
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: This is what happens when you don't thin.
« Reply #10 on: September 27, 2018, 01:51:58 PM »
I believe these are either E. grandis or hybrid E. grandis x E urophylla. A couple of years ago they were being harvested and logs were being sent to china; I heard that they were meant for studs. There was an incredible amount of tension in the logs; ends quartered themselves in the yard. There is a new bioenergy plant that may start to use some of them for feedstock. As noted, processing facilities and freight are limiting factors, particularly when dealing with low value material.
There have been close to 60 eucalyptus species planted in the islands, some extensively. Some of my house is made up of E. robusta which was widely planted as windbreaks in wet sites a century ago. E. sideroxylon can be seen on the drier side of waimea headed to kona on the upper road, planted as windbreak and shade for cattle. 
Aloha,
Kanoa

Offline sealark37

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 610
  • Age: 71
  • Location: Davidson, NC
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: This is what happens when you don't thin.
« Reply #11 on: September 27, 2018, 02:51:57 PM »
What is a nice boy from Plattsburgh doing in the Islands?  You are missing the best weather of the year at home!  Should you not be tuning up your snow machine?   Been there, done that.   Regards, Clark

Offline Haleiwa

  • member
  • *
  • Posts: 27
  • Clinton county, New York
    • Share Post
Re: This is what happens when you don't thin.
« Reply #12 on: September 27, 2018, 03:59:49 PM »
I've lived on Oahu for 20 years. This is one last play trip before we move to New York.  It's my wife's home.
Socialism is people pretending to work while the government pretends to pay them.  Mike Huckabee

Offline Ianab

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 12757
  • Age: 56
  • Location: Stratford , New Zealand
  • Gender: Male
  • Marmite on toast is a real breakfast
    • Share Post
Re: This is what happens when you don't thin.
« Reply #13 on: September 27, 2018, 04:14:02 PM »
Main problem with young eucalyptus like that is the wood is incredibly unstable from those smaller young logs. I've sawn sawn some, and it's developed every conceivable drying defect, all in the same board. Bet you didn't know a board could "cup" in both directions? Yup, into an S shape.  :D

Bigger older logs seem to be better behaved, and the exact species makes a big difference. 

Tight growth rings? Nah, try none. In the tropics they will just grow all year round, and put on a couple of inches dia every year. Even here in NZ I've cut down one for a friend that was ~10 years old, and over 20" at the stump. Not sure of the species, but the wood from that one actually behaved as it dried. ???

Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

Offline nativewolf

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 1130
  • Location: Delaplane, VA
  • Forester
    • Share Post
Re: This is what happens when you don't thin.
« Reply #14 on: September 27, 2018, 04:37:26 PM »
I believe these are either E. grandis or hybrid E. grandis x E urophylla. A couple of years ago they were being harvested and logs were being sent to china; I heard that they were meant for studs. There was an incredible amount of tension in the logs; ends quartered themselves in the yard. There is a new bioenergy plant that may start to use some of them for feedstock. As noted, processing facilities and freight are limiting factors, particularly when dealing with low value material.
There have been close to 60 eucalyptus species planted in the islands, some extensively. Some of my house is made up of E. robusta which was widely planted as windbreaks in wet sites a century ago. E. sideroxylon can be seen on the drier side of waimea headed to kona on the upper road, planted as windbreak and shade for cattle.
Hey good to hear from you Kanoak!  How goes the fight against the firegods and invasive species?  E. grandis can develop into nice wood given enough time.  I don't know how it responds to thinning after suppression.  
Liking Walnut

Online kanoak

  • member
  • *
  • Posts: 29
  • Location: Holualoa, HI
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: This is what happens when you don't thin.
« Reply #15 on: September 28, 2018, 01:45:23 AM »
Aloha nativewolf, good to hear from you. Pele is taking a nap for the moment and the weather on my side is beautiful. Weed maintenance is constant and high priority at the moment as we are moving into short season and many of my targets, the giant grasses will flower and set seed quite quickly at this time of year. Not sure these plantings will be given proper management and time to turn into a more valuable resource; heard talk that the landowner is thinking of razing a significant amount and reverting the land to pasture. It is a shame that they chose this course back at the end of the sugar era.
Aloha,
Kanoa

Offline mike_belben

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 3552
  • Location: Middle TN
  • Pulp Friction
    • Share Post
Re: This is what happens when you don't thin.
« Reply #16 on: September 28, 2018, 07:19:15 AM »
Whats avg price on a gallon of milk these days?

And what exactly caused the sugar cane implosion?  The world never consumed more of it than we presently do.
Revelation 3:20

Online longtime lurker

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 1104
  • Location: QLD, Australia
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: This is what happens when you don't thin.
« Reply #17 on: September 28, 2018, 08:32:31 AM »
I dont think those are E grandis - bark looks wrong to me. I am unfamiliar with E. urophylla or the hybrid.

E grandis is mostly used here for flooring, hardwood pallets, some use in general construction... its not particularly durable if weather exposed, though fine for internal use, and the high shrinkage means its mostly used in seasoned or KD applications. Nice timber though.




E. grandis logs in the bush, and half a one hooked up to the skidder.  Anything under about 80' to the first branch I would consider short.


 

 

grandis timber is the redder sample on the left,  I'd call that about middle of its colour range. It's reasonably workable so long as care is taken in drying. 
The quickest way to make a million dollars with a sawmill is to start with two million.

Offline Haleiwa

  • member
  • *
  • Posts: 27
  • Clinton county, New York
    • Share Post
Re: This is what happens when you don't thin.
« Reply #18 on: September 28, 2018, 01:39:51 PM »
Whats avg price on a gallon of milk these days?

And what exactly caused the sugar cane implosion?  The world never consumed more of it than we presently do.
Hawaii sugar rode the subsidy train for decades.  When fear of Fidel Castro lost its ability to scare people, the train came to a screeching halt.  
Milk on Oahu is between 4.50 and 5.00 at Costco.  Considerably higher elsewhere.  Way higher on the outer islands.
Socialism is people pretending to work while the government pretends to pay them.  Mike Huckabee

Offline mike_belben

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 3552
  • Location: Middle TN
  • Pulp Friction
    • Share Post
Re: This is what happens when you don't thin.
« Reply #19 on: September 28, 2018, 04:49:57 PM »
Makes sense.  Im pretty sure cuba is number 1 sugar state, and we are its primary target buyer.
Revelation 3:20


Share via delicious Share via digg Share via facebook Share via linkedin Share via pinterest Share via reddit Share via stumble Share via tumblr Share via twitter

xx
Thin SYP

Started by kelLOGg on Sawmills and Milling

18 Replies
1050 Views
Last post May 29, 2018, 09:53:27 AM
by Bruno of NH
xx
Thin end on the last board!!??

Started by True North on Sawmills and Milling

22 Replies
4147 Views
Last post November 25, 2009, 03:45:44 PM
by True North
question
Thin stock

Started by Bibbyman on Sawmills and Milling

8 Replies
2288 Views
Last post August 08, 2002, 08:21:56 PM
by woodman
xx
thin cutting oil

Started by copperhead10 on Drying and Processing

0 Replies
365 Views
Last post November 19, 2015, 07:41:51 AM
by copperhead10
 


Powered by EzPortal