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Author Topic: This is what happens when you don't thin.  (Read 2382 times)

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Offline Claybraker

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Re: This is what happens when you don't thin.
« Reply #20 on: September 28, 2018, 05:24:18 PM »
Whats avg price on a gallon of milk these days?

And what exactly caused the sugar cane implosion?  The world never consumed more of it than we presently do.
Hawaii sugar rode the subsidy train for decades.  When fear of Fidel Castro lost its ability to scare people, the train came to a screeching halt.  
Milk on Oahu is between 4.50 and 5.00 at Costco.  Considerably higher elsewhere.  Way higher on the outer islands. 
Way back in the mid 1700's Britain imposed tariffs on sugar and molasses imported to the colonies.  The Sugar Act of 1764 which protected wealthy British plantation owners in the West Indies was one of the irritants that led to the rebellion a few years later. 

Offline Ianab

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Re: This is what happens when you don't thin.
« Reply #21 on: September 28, 2018, 05:44:27 PM »
Dairy cows don't do well in the islands. We holiday in the Cook Islands, and basically you just don't buy milk like we normally do. Fresh has to be air freighted 4 hours from NZ, so its mostly UHT cartoned. But then you can just pick up coconuts off the ground if you are thirsty, and know how to open one.
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

Offline Riwaka

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Re: This is what happens when you don't thin.
« Reply #22 on: September 29, 2018, 01:54:29 AM »
To clear the eucs in hawaii put a $1 levy/ passenger on the tourists to buy a big feller buncher or two and  plant back into native vegetation.

E saligna can be turned into fibreboard but you would need a fair sized area and the electricity to run a mdf plant. 
https://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/pdf2001/krzys01a.pdf

Hawaii sugar - high costs versus sugar growing in other places with cheaper labour (slave labour)



Aussies have tropical cows

https://www.weeklytimesnow.com.au/agribusiness/dairy/herd-17-bred-for-a-tropical-climate/news-story/baf9e7512ca01d57d69da4fa37f4a9bd





Offline kanoak

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Re: This is what happens when you don't thin.
« Reply #23 on: September 30, 2018, 02:49:00 AM »
Aloha, 
longtime I have not done any proper identification on the species or cut any wood; just passing along what I have read on their plantings. Very cool and informative to see the wood and stand pictures. As stated by the op these stands have been neglected and I don't think there are many trees >12" dbh at this point but it would be great if they were managed as a resource instead of a problem. One thing I consistently hear about is the lack of quality drying. Local woodworkers don't like to work with local wood because of defect and poor consistency of product. 
Ranching is still big on the island; mostly for tax purposes at this point. I don't drink milk here; it is pasteurized, shipped, and then re-pasteurized. Besides paying a premium there is a very short time before it is the nastiest thing in the fridge. We used to have a multitude of independent dairies as well as butcher shops every couple of miles along the main roads. There is one dairy now and they are getting hammered for effluent discharge and growing gmo silage politically. Ranching did a number on the native flora, but created a vibrant culture that still hangs on. 
Other nails in the coffin of Hawaiian sugar were the rise of the sugar beet and the cost of labor.
Aloha,
Kanoa

Offline SwampDonkey

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Re: This is what happens when you don't thin.
« Reply #24 on: September 30, 2018, 03:28:56 AM »
One of the reasons I liked the old Hawaii 5-O was the shots of the natural landscape and the sugar plantation scenes. I don't watch the remake of the show at all.

An interesting part of the world. Who hasn't dreamed of going there? I don't think I'll make it, but I guess I'll make do on my own piece of paradise. :)

Pre-commercial thinning pays off. :)

'If she wants to play lumberjack, she's going to have to learn to handle her end of the log.'
Dirty Harry

Offline kanoak

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Re: This is what happens when you don't thin.
« Reply #25 on: September 30, 2018, 04:00:20 AM »
You are absolutely right Swamp, paradise is now, not somewhere. Don't really want to ruin our image, but we have the same problems that are endemic to the states, as well as a few from the third world; a lot of locals, we call it brain drain,  move to the mainland to find greener pasture.
Aloha,
Kanoa

Offline Ianab

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Re: This is what happens when you don't thin.
« Reply #26 on: September 30, 2018, 06:09:40 AM »
An interesting part of the world. Who hasn't dreamed of going there? I don't think I'll make it, but I guess I'll make do on my own piece of paradise


You never know....

When I met up with Lil, we talked about "where would you go on a holiday?" I said "Some Tropical Island... "
Next thing I know I'm in Rarotonga. :D  

Then

"So, should we get married?"   

Only if I can be bare foot on a tropical Island Beach,,,,

Yup, Back to Raro... :D

To be fair Rarotonga isn't really anything like Hawaii, apart from being an Island in the Pacific. They have some cool rules, like you can't "buy" land. Only lease it.  And you can't build anything taller than a Coconut Tree. So there is no McDonalds / KFC, or huge resorts.  Makes it more like the Hawaii that people want to remember....
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

Offline longtime lurker

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Re: This is what happens when you don't thin.
« Reply #27 on: October 03, 2018, 08:14:03 PM »
Worse places to be then Raro Ian.

I've been getting back to this for a couple days, out in the weeds working you guys know the drill...

Those Eucalypts...  I mean there's 600 odd species of Eucalypt but those particular species you've mentioned as being a nuisance there... are highly valued as chip. Its about the density/ fibre length/ whatever other technical considerations but basicly they use those Euc species chips to blend with other sorts of woodchips to improve the properties of the finished product be it paper or fibreboard or whatever.

And Euc chip is doing good - demand is strong, prices are up, and no end to the good days in sight those as with anything in this industry whatever booms usually goes bust sooner or later.



$200  AUD/ BDMT is about $145 US per 2240lb dry ton. BDMT (Bone dry metric ton is the international chip unit, sorta like oil being sold by the barrel).

I know what I'd be doing with them.... attack... anything over 14" SED will go export log to China at around $0.40 USD/BF (based on what they're paying for the same species ex wharf here),(( EDIT: that is unscaled/ straight volune measure/defect and kerf allowance not deducted ))chip the rest for Japan or China... get a contract and go like blazes while the market is strong.

The quickest way to make a million dollars with a sawmill is to start with two million.

Offline Riwaka

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Re: This is what happens when you don't thin.
« Reply #28 on: October 04, 2018, 08:34:10 PM »
School probably would not be too happy if they received a multi million dollar bill for the expense of removing the gum trees.
Kamehameha Schools starts new search for harvest operator - West Hawaii Today

Offline kanoak

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Re: This is what happens when you don't thin.
« Reply #29 on: October 15, 2018, 11:54:33 PM »
Contract is now up for bids. From todays paper it looks like they want someone to cut 3k acres. 
Aloha,
Kanoa

Offline Ianab

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Re: This is what happens when you don't thin.
« Reply #30 on: October 16, 2018, 04:33:59 AM »
It's not that the trees are worthless, it's just that the infrastructure to market them from Hawaii isn't in place. 

"Build it and they will come" isn't always the answer. 

And setting up the infrastructure now is questionable, because of the current problems, there is no ongoing harvest being replanted once the current one is gone.

Locally you could make money cutting that stuff for firewood, but being a tropical Island I'm guessing that market is extremely limited.  :D

Hopefully someone can put a plan together with enough financial backing to make it work.
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

Offline LeeB

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Re: This is what happens when you don't thin.
« Reply #31 on: October 17, 2018, 06:03:40 AM »
Maybe mulch or compost? 
'98 LT40HDD/Lombardini, Case 580L, Cat D4C, JD 3032 tractor, JD 5410 tractor, Husky 346, 372 and 562XP's. Stihl MS180 and MS361, 1998 and 2006 3/4 Ton 5.9 Cummins 4x4's, 1989 Dodge D100 w/ 318, and a 1966 Chevy C60 w/ dump bed.


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