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Author Topic: Seeking source for education in "sound" bandsaw mill design and construction.  (Read 5163 times)

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Offline Crusarius

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oh yea, diesel also weighs quite a bit more. So now you need to build beefier and heavier to support the weight.

Offline Hilltop366

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For the cam lock log dogs (or any other kind) I was wondering if they were sloped towards the log a bit they would push down when tightened there by avoiding the lifting of the log? Kind of like having some preset in them.

I had screw type log dog and found them slow to set and always thought the cam lock would be so much faster.

Check out the Logosol dogs in this video.   https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=124&v=OmyFKF8zIa0

Offline Crusarius

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I love having the springs. the sleeve on the 2" square locks like the cam locks bar but the spring holds it from moving.

Offline ljohnsaw

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Lot of great ideas on that Logosaw band mill.  Here is my cam clamp I made.  The handle/lever was just some scrap ½" rod that was already bent.  The cam is a piece of SS rod.  The bolts are Grade 8 5/16" IIRC.  The tube is ¼" wall 2x2.  The clamp is 1x1 solid steel.  The point is level when you start and angles down slightly when fully clamped so I suppose it pulls down a little.  They work fantastic - easy, FAST and very strong.  The only problem is the lower bolt prevents me from going lower than 7½".  I might try to countersink it or replace it with a roll pin.  I made a smaller one that is rotated 90° for doing the little stuff.


 

 

 

 
They are not quite so pretty anymore but still function great.
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/32" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

Offline MikeySP

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Nifty log dogs. I will make powered, but this still gives me close up details. Just need to replace a hand with power. :)

Diesel is definitely more weight, but If I am building the mill, and it will cost little different because of my free parts, I want a high production machine. If it was choice between free 22hp or spendy 50hp, I would go with the former. If it was a manual mill it would also play in. So in the end, I will look at my pile of stuff and make compromises where it makes economic sense and time to build sense. 

On a side note, someone just gave me a functioning Foley Belsaw with 36-40" steel blade. Not sure if this is something that can be automated?? I had not considered a circular, but it was free??

-Mike

Offline MikeySP

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Realized that a cam is not neccesary when hydraulic is pushing. :)

Offline mike_belben

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Those are some very innovative dogs.


Here i can buy red diesel cheaper than gas and it lasts forever.  Im on a break from it now, but i make waste vegetable oil fuel and conversion systems.  

Gas engines mean eventually fooling with carbs and ignitions.. Not a week goes by that i dont have some stupid gas engine problem.  Coils, breakers, condensors, distributor buttons, wires, never ends.  My diesels are always easier to keep up.  

I would consider a small mechanical diesel for my saw and a $99 throwaway Predator for the setworks.  Buy 2 and a warranty.  Any grief and you swap them out then get another like flashlight batteries.  5hp sounds small.. But 5 horses can pull huge loads.  You use a small displacement pump (low gpm) and just wait 3 seconds longer, big deal.  Its when you want 10gpm at 3000 psi that you need bigger motor.  3gpm at 2200 psi will do what you need.  A log dog or backstop mover doesnt need much flow or pressure.. A half hp worth.  


I wish i had friends who toss belsaws!


Revelation 3:20

Offline MikeySP

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Actually, very good friend that I gifted the mill, a lathe, and metal milling machine to. All old beat up stuff. Anyways, he recently got a steel rail Foley that is quite a bit nicer w/42" Carbide blade. When he knew I was looking at building a bandmill, he told me he did not want the one I gave him and said for me to take it and use it or sell it to fund my project. 

What say you Gents? Folley Belsaw with "steel" blade. New cardbide insert blade would be$$$ for starters, but are steel blades poor performers?

Next, is there a way to make these automated. Feed already is, but it would need log turner, loader, dogs, etc..

The log bed is too thin for any trama, so it would need a bed to feed it. But even then, the space is not there for the additional automation (as best I can tell).

However, if I disassembled the sawmill and put the power-plant (tractor) and blade/bearing blocks alone to one side and then built a beefy feed and log management on the other, it could have some potential perhaps. I lose all portability though.

May need to stick with the bandmill idea, but this is tempting. 

Offline JB Griffin

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I have toyed with the idea of going circle several times, but can't make it work for one man efficiently.  Take the mill maybe you can do something with it or use it as is.
2000 LT40hyd remote 33hp Kubota, 160 Prentice, Frick 2 saw gang edger, Wright W-37 ABG, Suffolk dual tooth setter, Cat claw single tooth setter,'96 F-250 7.3 PSD 4x4, CS-590 Echo, MF 20c, M681 Memo.

Over 2.5 million bdft sawn with a Baker Dominator and counting.

Offline MikeySP

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OK Gents, here is where I am at currently: I will pick up the Belsaw and trade/sell it to finish acquiring the parts I need to build a bandsaw mill.

As mentioned, I have on hand many items such as steel and lots of hardware stuff. 

I have acquired through trading a few guns: 
44HP Kubota Turbo Diesel with about 1500 hrs on it.
10 good (used) hydraulic motors with some hoses, valves (both mechanical and solenoid types)
several small hydraulic cylinders (1/2" - 3/4" rod dia and about 1-1/4 to 1-1/2" bore with a stroke of about 12-15 inches).
a bunch more hardware related stuff. 

All of this came from the trade, so I will use what will work, and set aside what won't.

I plan to reread Cooks bandsaw wheel size paper to see what size wheels I will need and to determine what size blade I should use: 1.5" 2"?

Cook's wheels are about $500 each for 26" (I think)
Hud-son sells 25" wheels for $275 each ( I think)

However, I think the cooks come with the part that has a keyway and bolts to the wheel; whereas, the Hudson appears to be the wheel without that other part. 

I have been scouring for trading but have not found any sawmill wheels on craigslist or facebook. 

Can I use a large bandsaw? There are some large, older, heavy bandsaws I see, but I wasn't sure if they are strong enough for a 44HP engine when they are currently powered by a 2-3hp electric motor for woodworking shop duties.

Additionally, what is the sanity/insanity or building a LONG trailer for a sawmill. 30-50ft. 

Thank you Gents and have a great Fall day.

Offline Crusarius

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whatever you build for a trailer make sure you can transport it and get it into tight spots. I have a 24' trailer and it is challenging just getting it turned around sometimes.

Offline ljohnsaw

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Additionally, what is the sanity/insanity or building a LONG trailer for a sawmill. 30-50ft.

What is your target length of log to cut?  You could do what someone else has done - make fold up extension.  Make the bed what you need for your target log - strong and rigid.  Then, have fold up ends that only need to be stout enough to support your mill head.  Think of them as parking places to get the mill out of the way when loading a log or finishing the cut.
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/32" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

Offline Crusarius

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That was an idea I had. So far I have not needed anymore than the 24' bed I have. Maybe one day. But till then the 24' is a big PITA trying to move it around my house.

Offline Southside logger

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As far as the length goes, the first question is do you have logs that long in your area that you would be sawing?  Is there a market for timbers that long?  Getting a 30' straight log, that needs to be sawn into 30' material is not an everyday thing.  The other issue is you need to be able to manage that monster on and off of the mill.  They are heavy and un wieldy when trying to move around, they just don't cooperate unless you have the right equipment.  

If long stuff is a "might" have the chance to see once in a great while then I would stick with something more compact, but design it so you can add on later, in the form of a portable extension,  should the market present you with that opportunity.  Then when you need the long saw you make two trips, or two tow units - charge on those jobs accordingly - but everything is still maneuverable for daily work.  
Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT Super 70 and LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
Enough cows to ensure there is no spare time.

Offline MikeySP

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Great. Thanks for the comments gents. Helps me think more clearly. 

Offline mike_belben

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Keep an eye out for scrapped or cheap/broken metal bandsaws.. The old american ones are stout and heavy.  Do-all, Kalamazoo, Amada, rockwell delta, dake, wilton, marvel and greenlee should cover the best of them.  
Revelation 3:20

Offline Southside logger

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A Tannewitz with 36" wheels will wipe the floor with about any other band saw out there.  
Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT Super 70 and LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
Enough cows to ensure there is no spare time.

Offline MikeySP

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Great info men! So a metal bandsaw may have the right wheels. I know I used to have a tiny bottom line JET metal bandsaw that had ridges on the wheels, but I guess that is not normative for the larger industrial types.

Question Southside Logger: will my 44HP Diesel be able to effectively power 36" wheels?

Curious as I am not married to any design yet aside from hydraulics, band sawmill, and 44HP diesel as I have these already. I say this because 36" wheels would create a problem an oversize load or very small log diameter limit in a mobile mill.

Question: does space between wheels slow down cutting speed to maintain straight boards?



 

Offline ljohnsaw

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The space (or capacity) between the wheels does not affect the cutting speed.  The actual width of the wood that you are cutting may dictate a slower cutting speed.  As does the hardness of the wood, the number of the knots and the craziness of the grain.  And, of course, the sharpness of the blade (has the greatest influence, IMO).  Now, for a longer blade (i.e. distance between guides), you will have to keep the blade tight(er) to help it track better (not dive) in the wood.  To combat the rigidness need, a wider blade can be used.  But that, in turn, requires more tension, which requires more stout build, and on and on.
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/32" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

Offline MikeySP

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Great, once I figure and find wheels, I will bring this topic up again.


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