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Author Topic: Skidder/Forwarder Question  (Read 1583 times)

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Offline teakwood

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Skidder/Forwarder Question
« on: October 07, 2018, 09:16:54 AM »
A big teak company in my area has ask me to help them out with their new purchase. They bought a Welte 130M from Germany and shipped her over.

At 5.11 the 130M is explained.



They asked me to train the operators and help with maintenance and overall care taking of the machine.
Although i have very limited experience with this type of machine i do have vast knowledge owner/operating my old deere skidder and the big Volvo Excavator.
I'm also known as a machine owner who takes excellent care of his machines.
They other big thing is that i'm from Switzerland and speak german and the machine is from Germany and i can translate some doubts to spanish and explain them to the operators.

A question for the FF forwarder operators? What do you guys use for traction in the rainy/muddy months?  Chains or Tracks?  
 
National Stihl Timbersports Champion Costa Rica 2018

Offline Skeans1

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Re: Skidder/Forwarder Question
« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2018, 09:30:24 AM »
Tracks all the way around chains might be ok if youre on flat ground.

Offline teakwood

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Re: Skidder/Forwarder Question
« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2018, 10:44:47 AM »
it's a 6x6 machine, so the front axle is just one, like a normal skidder. Also tracks on the front tires?
National Stihl Timbersports Champion Costa Rica 2018

Offline Skeans1

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Re: Skidder/Forwarder Question
« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2018, 10:58:24 AM »
it's a 6x6 machine, so the front axle is just one, like a normal skidder. Also tracks on the front tires?
Id track the front tire as well, they do it on the skidders up here all the time.

Offline barbender

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Re: Skidder/Forwarder Question
« Reply #4 on: October 07, 2018, 11:07:50 AM »
That looks like a nice machine. We run tracks under the bunks, and chains under the cab.
Too many irons in the fire

Offline Gary_C

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Re: Skidder/Forwarder Question
« Reply #5 on: October 07, 2018, 11:23:32 AM »
Tracks will give you flotation and traction, chains only traction. 

I run tracks on the bogies pretty much year around and chains on the front only when steering becomes a problem in hard frozen ground.
Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.

Offline Skeans1

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Re: Skidder/Forwarder Question
« Reply #6 on: October 07, 2018, 11:39:09 AM »
Guys with the 6wd forwarders out here and harvesters run tracks all the way around.

Offline Riwaka

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Re: Skidder/Forwarder Question
« Reply #7 on: October 07, 2018, 10:02:17 PM »
Tracks/ chains on the Welte will be how well the axles are made and what the manual book allows for weight.

Something like a terra 85 on the bogie?
Terra 85 | Clark Tracks

4 cylinder not as nice a sound as the 6 cylinder
Volvo engine in this spec sheet
https://www.welte.de/fileadmin/downloads/4-zylinder_w130_web_en.pdf
deutz in this one?
Details - Welte Forstmaschinen, Kombimaschinen, Kommunalmaschinen und Spezialfahrzeuge

Find out what other machines they have; to work out the best combination to put together a recovery team/ (kit - blocks, dyneema rope etc)  Big tow -australia    Synthetic Rope Services | BIGTOW Heavy Vehicle Recovery Strop    and equipment for when they flip the Welte on its side or upside down. Laminated instruction sheets in espanol with diagrams to reduce the chance of wrecking the welte when recovering it. Making sure the engine is right before attempting a re-start etc.  
Show them how to make home made DEF if short of DEF in the wilderness. etc

Offline teakwood

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Re: Skidder/Forwarder Question
« Reply #8 on: October 08, 2018, 08:20:31 AM »
Thanks for all the replies.

It will be the 4zyl Volvo penta motor with all the oils all ready changed to what we can buy here in Costa Rica. I talked to the boss of the company and he explained me that another container is sent with tracks and parts/ filters/ oils, so i will see what we can make with that. Initial oil changes have to be made by 250 and 500 h of use

They have several ag tractors with 3pt winchs, 4 bells for the landings and loading containers and some trucks with cranes.
They had a cat forwarder which is broke down because of operator errors and lack of maintenance.
I did a post some years ago, had great responses form our members and forwarded this to the CEO but they didn't made changes because the chief of Operation is penny pinching and has the big hammer on production production production.


Forwarder loaded with teak. pics in Forestry and Logging

I already told the CEO that it's crucial to have just one or two good operators for that machine and that the maintenance is made by only one and the same person, which i hope i will be. If they don't like my ideas i will walk away. a 400-500k machine should be handled correctly no matter the cost so she can produce money!
National Stihl Timbersports Champion Costa Rica 2018

Offline barbender

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Re: Skidder/Forwarder Question
« Reply #9 on: October 08, 2018, 09:19:13 AM »
They don't produce produce produce if you don't maintain them correctly!
Too many irons in the fire

Offline Riwaka

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Re: Skidder/Forwarder Question
« Reply #10 on: October 09, 2018, 07:05:07 AM »
If the manager wants production the cat 574 forwarder will have to be fixed.

I would use the Welte in clambunk spec . I assume the teak is hand-chainsaw felled and chopped mostly to full length at the stump.

Then welte to pull out long length logs to somewhere to chainsaw to shorter length. Find a Hitachi zx225 or similar cat excavator  with grapple. to sort and stack. 
Then cat forwarder up dirt track to roadside where road? trucks with cranes can self load.  

Personnel - 2/3 chainsaw felling,  1 welte operator,  2 chainsaw cutting to length & using zx225 and cat 574 operator.   (total 6, 7 or more crew)

Probably have a crane trailer as a backup to the cat (if it is ruined) and winch tractors backup to welte.

Depending on aims -Best practice, least soil damage or least cost? Make some grapple wheel logging arches  for the tractors?
Profidrive trailer on tractor 


If logs need to stay long find a usable  articulated dump truck for log hauler conversion
Volvo adt hauler

Offline teakwood

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Re: Skidder/Forwarder Question
« Reply #11 on: October 09, 2018, 08:10:36 AM »
The plan, and i'm sure that we have to make changes over time, is:

15 hand fallers (they want to reduce that) drop tree and top, in slopes winch the trees with tractors and oxen (15 pairs available) to flatter ground where the welte, which will work just as a clambunk machine, can grab the long wood and forward  to the wood roads where they get deposited and then load to the trucks (maybe with a grapple excavator, not sure yet about that step???) and the trucks bring the loads to the big landings where they get shorted and sorted and put in containers for export or they haul the load to the sawmill they own. The landing they have pretty much figured out with the tri tire bells for sorting and loading.
I have a 30to Volvo Excavator but without a grapple and i'm not sure if i could try to work something out with them to get a contract. but maybe she is just too big.

This company harvests 30 000 m3 a year and this will raise to 50 000 m3 in a few years so we need to optimize the wood handling.
Take in mind that 7 months of the year we have rainseason where production gets crippled in half and the nice wood roads get nasty.
National Stihl Timbersports Champion Costa Rica 2018

Offline Skeans1

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Re: Skidder/Forwarder Question
« Reply #12 on: October 09, 2018, 09:00:28 AM »
Sounds more like they need a harvester then hand fallers, here some of the guys yard and load the trucks with the forwarders.

Online mike_belben

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Re: Skidder/Forwarder Question
« Reply #13 on: October 09, 2018, 09:51:12 AM »
Yeah but how do you maintain a harvester in the jungle?  Men are a lot easier and cheaper to replace, and the short time window makes staying running critical.  Cant be waiting for parts when its time to make hay. 
Revelation 3:20

Online mike_belben

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Re: Skidder/Forwarder Question
« Reply #14 on: October 09, 2018, 09:54:23 AM »
When i think of a harvester i think computers and cables and diagnostic ports.  to me a forwarder is just a long skidder, but i guess by now even a new forwarder will have complicated systems.
Revelation 3:20

Offline barbender

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Re: Skidder/Forwarder Question
« Reply #15 on: October 09, 2018, 11:55:02 AM »
They do, Mike. They have less maintenance and repairs than a harvester by far, but you still need someone like teakwood close by to take care of issues that arise.
Too many irons in the fire

Offline Riwaka

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Re: Skidder/Forwarder Question
« Reply #16 on: October 09, 2018, 06:33:07 PM »
Rain forest think  6x6, 8x8 trucks like the Renault Kerax, Nissan Diesel,  Scania, MAN, Volvo , Mercedes etc get used as log haul trucks in the tropics.

MAN TGS 40.440 6x6    going up a dirt assisted by bulldozer and rubber tired loader - check the airlines to the trailer.
Truck Logging MAN TGS 40.440 6x6 dengan Kerja sama team di Medan berat. - YouTube

Hyundai are starting to do a few more extras from factory for forestry - India - Hyundai r140w - reinforced boom & grill from factory, ( also do a 170), can guess any track machine is likely to be driven too far if there are no truck transporters close by. A log loader boom might be helpful. With the digger boom there are quick change attachments between power rotate log grapple/ heel and a bucket.


Offline Riwaka

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Re: Skidder/Forwarder Question
« Reply #17 on: October 10, 2018, 03:43:27 PM »
Small cable system for small teak extraction - Laos with Maxwald/ Seilwinden, Austria.
Lifting logs to reduce soil compaction and erosion on within stand skid trails.

Offline teakwood

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Re: Skidder/Forwarder Question
« Reply #18 on: October 10, 2018, 07:06:39 PM »
thanks Riwaka for the good videos, very informative.

But for our area her it seems to complicated, time consuming to install, to small and to slow. The company i will work for does already clear cuts in 20 year old teak. logs up to 24m long and 20" diam weighting in at 500-1000 kg green weight.  

at 5.00 min they say that you need min. 30m3 per installation to be profitable, with those toothpicks they haul in the video you will need more than 250-300 trees to get to 30m3. even if the line is 200m long you will not get to these numbers in a teak thinning.

Spoke with the CEO and he is waiting for a offer. He wants me to give a price for my days work for the initial 2 weeks straight. Training the operators, overwatch the machine for good use and workpractice. 
and then 1day every week or second week to overlook the operation and make the oil changes and maintenance on the machine with their company mechanic.  

i think 100$/day for the first 2 weeks and then 150$/day for the maintenance and i bring my own tools. What do you guys think? take in mind that we don't have first wold salaries. a worker owns 20$ a day, a operator 40-50$ 
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Online mike_belben

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Re: Skidder/Forwarder Question
« Reply #19 on: October 10, 2018, 08:48:20 PM »
I live in the first world and have worked harder for less.  

Revelation 3:20


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