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Author Topic: Timber Poaching  (Read 1734 times)

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Offline sawguy21

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Timber Poaching
« on: October 12, 2018, 02:01:23 PM »
Interesting article on CBC News Vancouver this morning. Timber poaching is on the rise on Vancouver Island, they are targeting mature Douglas fir, cedar, and large leaf maple along roadsides. Fines are up to a million dollars and/or 3 years for theft, $500,000 and/or 2 years for not properly marking or documenting during transport or storage. The present price for lumber, particularly softwood, must make the risk worth taking, it will be interesting to see if cases come up and what penalties are imposed.
old age and treachery will always overcome youth and enthusiasm

Offline moodnacreek

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Re: Timber Poaching
« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2018, 08:15:05 PM »
Hard to believe  those trees would be worth stealing . Here it was always walnut or cherry buts depending on the times.

Offline snowstorm

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Re: Timber Poaching
« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2018, 08:48:22 PM »
there is some big wood there and its a big island. i drove a third of the length of it then headed west to the coast. and went the length of it by boat 

Offline quilbilly

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Re: Timber Poaching
« Reply #3 on: October 24, 2018, 09:11:24 PM »
I believe Vancouver island still has old growth cedar which will fetch a pretty penny for shake and shingle, while the big leaf maple if it has figure can be worth up to 10 dollars a foot
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Offline sawguy21

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Re: Timber Poaching
« Reply #4 on: October 24, 2018, 11:19:26 PM »
Old growth has become sacred and is pretty much protected from the loggers but not the thieves. ::) They must be selling to unscrupulous mills or processing it themselves, cedar is very popular for roofing, siding and furniture. As you say maple fetches big bucks, there is not a lot of big leaf in BC. Clear d-fir is in high demand, the best goes overseas so is hard to obtain and DanG expensive locally. Ask no questions and be told no lies.
old age and treachery will always overcome youth and enthusiasm

Offline Runningalucas

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Re: Timber Poaching
« Reply #5 on: October 25, 2018, 12:12:33 AM »
I've seen this thread here, and there since it's posting.  The last several years down here in the "Northwest", we've been subjected to Canadian smoke in the Summers; months of it; yearly.  The most disheartening part of this newly, yearly tradition is Canada stating something along the lines of, 'we won't put out the fires until the fall rains put them out.'  Meaning the obvious of, 'let them burn'.  

That phrase has definitely been uttered a few times, and I also take note of our own government, and media down here with the usual winter time 'inversion warnings'; where on the coldest day of the year they mandate no wood fires for warmth.

So I got the Canadian Government with the attitude of let them burn till the fall rains put them out(smoke for months), and then I've got the US government telling me on the coldest night(s), and perfectly clear night(s), that the one night of smoke may cause 'respiratory distress'.  

I really think, we've been going on at least 4 years solid of over a month of fogged in bad smoke, combine that with our own 'government' telling us it's bad to have heat on the coldest day of the year, and anymore with the idiocracy, I don't know that I'd blame the guy who has the thought of taking a tree off a roadway. 

Online LeeB

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Re: Timber Poaching
« Reply #6 on: October 25, 2018, 06:45:51 AM »
Really?
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Offline KirkD

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Re: Timber Poaching
« Reply #7 on: October 25, 2018, 11:40:51 AM »
The most disheartening part of this newly, yearly tradition is Canada stating something along the lines of, 'we won't put out the fires until the fall rains put them out.' Meaning the obvious of, 'let them burn'.
 
And the US does not let them burn? I don't know what part of the NW you are at but the three states below BC defiantly have a let it burn policy.
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Online Chop Shop

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Re: Timber Poaching
« Reply #8 on: October 25, 2018, 02:09:02 PM »
There is not enough time in the day, life left in this keyboard or anyone with enough time to read ALL my thoughts on how fire and fire fuel is managed nowdays.

I ma truly disgusted with how the FS treats this HUGE problem.   I never once enjoyed a "smokey summer" as a youth.   This is a new problem.

Offline KirkD

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Re: Timber Poaching
« Reply #9 on: October 25, 2018, 04:03:36 PM »
There is not enough time in the day, life left in this keyboard or anyone with enough time to read ALL my thoughts on how fire and fire fuel is managed nowdays.

I ma truly disgusted with how the FS treats this HUGE problem.   I never once enjoyed a "smokey summer" as a youth.   This is a new problem.
Me neither and even in the 70's when they were burning all the rye / wheat fields every summer was not as bad as some of the forest fires we see now. Here today gone tomorrow opposed to weeks of not seeing the sun.
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Offline moodnacreek

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Re: Timber Poaching
« Reply #10 on: October 25, 2018, 08:41:25 PM »
Once knew a feller who had 100 acres surrounded by state land. He liked to get a nice pile of logs and hire one of them wood mizers to come in and make lumber. I hunted his land and was surprised at the diameter of the logs in the pile.  Told him I didn't know there was any pine that big on the place and he  says he didn't know that either but some of them where close!

Offline Runningalucas

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Re: Timber Poaching
« Reply #11 on: October 25, 2018, 09:26:04 PM »
The most disheartening part of this newly, yearly tradition is Canada stating something along the lines of, 'we won't put out the fires until the fall rains put them out.' Meaning the obvious of, 'let them burn'.

And the US does not let them burn? I don't know what part of the NW you are at but the three states below BC defiantly have a let it burn policy.
You're actually correct.  It just seems like every year in the Inland Northwest, that a good portion of our smoke is from BC(I remember a story I think 2 seasons back, where they stated they were just going to let the fall rains put them out). 

On that note, I have to wonder what woods will be around on the left coast; considering year, after year now it's usually a very smokey Summer.

Online Southside logger

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Re: Timber Poaching
« Reply #12 on: October 25, 2018, 09:27:42 PM »
Chop Shop - I completely agree with you on the horrible job the feds are doing out west, been there and still have family there - but then I have to ask if all that lumber were to hit the market, what would it do to the value of private stands?  
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Online Chop Shop

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Re: Timber Poaching
« Reply #13 on: October 25, 2018, 11:31:37 PM »
but then I have to ask if all that lumber were to hit the market, what would it do to the value of private stands?  
I guess I don't fully understand your statement?     
You better believe these "burnt" trees are not left to rot, most are salvage logged if possible and turned into lumber or chips.    Ive seen the mill yards piles high with burnt logs.
Some of it has even spurred a new "blue pine" lumber market out here, which is great for the small sawyer to mill 1x6 cabin paneling.

Offline sawguy21

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Re: Timber Poaching
« Reply #14 on: October 26, 2018, 12:08:54 AM »
I have worked with loggers and for a few years in the logging industry, I don't know where this let it burn theory comes from but it's certainly not my experience. The provincial forest services are doing everything they can to control the fires but the problem is too big, look at a map and compare the western provinces to the states. We have had mild winters, hot dry summers then add the bug kill to the mix for a sure fire recipe.
One problem we have seen is lack of controlled burns in high risk areas, particularly national parks. It is not a popular topic among the city dwelling politicos but they are sorely needed to help control the runaway wild fires.
In September 1988 I was in California chasing a Sikorsky 61 with a fuel truck. After release we went to Boise in attempt to get on with USFS in Yellowstone. We gave up and returned home after the first week, the bureaucratic wrangling was mind boggling. If we had persisted we MIGHT have gone to work the following spring. The great minds in Washington finally came up with a solution to the problem. If the fire started by natural causes they would let nature take it's course and allow the forest to rejuvenate. If started by humans they would put it out. The fire didn't give a fat rat's patooey, it was happily gobbling up one of the country's greatest marvels.
old age and treachery will always overcome youth and enthusiasm

Offline Al_Smith

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Re: Timber Poaching
« Reply #15 on: October 26, 2018, 06:40:32 AM »
To the actual topic being timber piracy I think depending on the market it can be rather widespread .Unless I'm mistaken the fine in Oho is around $2000 per marketable tree if caught .
My daughter,all 5 foot tall and 115 pounds of her had to make a point with a 6 foot 3 225 pound  logger in southern Ohio .She was in charge of environmental concerns on every high voltage transmission power line installation in the state at one time .This logger thought he'd help himself to the prime oaks around 200 yards on each side of the marked right of way .He made the mistake of threatening her over her concerns,a very stupid thing to do .It cost him dearly .It went to court and he lost and had to pay the affected land land owners for the stolen timber .Poetic justice .

Online Southside logger

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Re: Timber Poaching
« Reply #16 on: October 26, 2018, 08:03:57 AM »
but then I have to ask if all that lumber were to hit the market, what would it do to the value of private stands?  
I guess I don't fully understand your statement?      
You better believe these "burnt" trees are not left to rot, most are salvage logged if possible and turned into lumber or chips.    Ive seen the mill yards piles high with burnt logs.
Some of it has even spurred a new "blue pine" lumber market out here, which is great for the small sawyer to mill 1x6 cabin paneling.
What I meant was if actual management before it burnt was a practice so that timber harvests were happening. That would put more lumber on the market and I would think impact the price down. 
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Offline quilbilly

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Re: Timber Poaching
« Reply #17 on: October 27, 2018, 10:48:31 AM »
The most disheartening part of this newly, yearly tradition is Canada stating something along the lines of, 'we won't put out the fires until the fall rains put them out.' Meaning the obvious of, 'let them burn'.

And the US does not let them burn? I don't know what part of the NW you are at but the three states below BC defiantly have a let it burn policy.
You're actually correct.  It just seems like every year in the Inland Northwest, that a good portion of our smoke is from BC(I remember a story I think 2 seasons back, where they stated they were just going to let the fall rains put them out). 

On that note, I have to wonder what woods will be around on the left coast; considering year, after year now it's usually a very smokey Summer.

  So this still isn't 100% correct. If a fire is in a designated wilderness area they will let nature take it's course, if it isn't 90% of the time it will be fought with few exceptions like terrain etc. I live in the PNW and have many friends who have been wildland firefighters as well as dealing with a fire about ten miles from my house. what needs to be understood is most fires here that  are not fought are in the parks and wilderness areas.
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