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Author Topic: Hit and Miss Engines - what to look for?  (Read 1204 times)

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Offline Don P

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Hit and Miss Engines - what to look for?
« on: October 14, 2018, 08:49:04 AM »
We've come to realize, what our county needs is a good hit and miss ice cream maker. So, a few of us are going to a swap meet to look at engines. Any advice on what to look for, what to avoid, thinking about price but also reliability, size, parts availability, etc. Thanks!

Offline btulloh

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Re: Hit and Miss Engines - what to look for?
« Reply #1 on: October 14, 2018, 09:17:26 AM »
I have limited advice, but I'll share what I learned to get this started.  I have to say that your goal is worthy and I encourage you to complete your mission.

You'll probably encounter some people with experience and knowledge while you're looking for a hit n miss engine.  That may be the best source of information.  It will be a good journey.

I had a Cushman Cub engine that was in the family for a long time.  It was working fine at one time.  Twenty years or so later I found it in a partially disassembled state.  Apparently it had developed a problem.  Parts were missing (but presumed to be around here somewhere) and I couldn't find a decent picture or parts diagram, so I didn't know what I was looking for.  This is a fairly common engine, but I couldn't find one anywhere that was complete and working after looking at hundreds.  (I guess that means that it's not that common.)  I finally passed the engine on to a family friend that got it together and working.

I would try to find one that is at least complete even if not working.  Parts are hard to find especially if you don't know what you're trying to find.  Most of the carburetors from that era are pretty simple and don't really resemble a carb if you see one separated from the engine.

I know none of that addresses your real question but maybe you'll get some more specific guidance here.  No matter what, you're on a good quest and it will be an interesting journey.  Those are fascinating engines, and when hooked to an ice cream maker, the reward is worth the effort.  Have fun.
HM126

Offline btulloh

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Re: Hit and Miss Engines - what to look for?
« Reply #2 on: October 14, 2018, 09:32:41 AM »
You'll also need a good recipe.  A cooked custard recipe is superior to all others, but that's not you usually find at events where they're making ice cream.  If you don't already have a secret family recipe on hand, that will be another element to find.  Maybe there needs to be a separate thread in the FOOD section.  I bet everyone could agree on the BEST recipe.  (Ha!)

Offline lxskllr

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Re: Hit and Miss Engines - what to look for?
« Reply #3 on: October 14, 2018, 09:38:09 AM »
Never heard of them. I just read a bit on wikipedia, and they look terrible  :^D  Kind of interesting as a historic novelty, but I wouldn't want to build anything around them. As a historic novelty, I think I'd rather build around a steam engine of some kind.

Offline btulloh

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HM126

Offline goose63

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Re: Hit and Miss Engines - what to look for?
« Reply #5 on: October 14, 2018, 10:53:25 AM »
There is a bunch of hit and miss engines around here let me do some asking maybe some one will be willing to sel one
goose
if you find your self in a deep hole stop digging
saw logs all day what do you get lots of lumber and a day older
thank you to all the vets

Offline sawguy21

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Re: Hit and Miss Engines - what to look for?
« Reply #6 on: October 14, 2018, 11:34:22 AM »
We have a few in our collectors club, they are fun to play with but seem to require a lot of tinkering to keep running. Temperamental like the owners ;D
old age and treachery will always overcome youth and enthusiasm

Offline Al_Smith

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Re: Hit and Miss Engines - what to look for?
« Reply #7 on: October 14, 2018, 12:59:00 PM »
I've been around a number of them but never had a desire to own one  As matter of fact in a few hours I'm going to take jaunt to a buddy's house where has not only a collection of them but also a Case traction engine .He's going to fire the steamer one last time before winter sets in today .

As a side note some 30 years ago this guy came across a 20 HP Cooper-Bessemer oil field engine and asked me if I knew anything about .I didn't but my father after WW2 was a machinist at the works in Mt Vernon Ohio at one time .That single cylinder engine is huge .6 foot diameter flywheels .

Offline Magicman

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Re: Hit and Miss Engines - what to look for?
« Reply #8 on: October 14, 2018, 04:01:59 PM »
Never heard of them. I just read a bit on wikipedia, and they look terrible
Here is one that one of my customers had running:


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Offline DPatton

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Re: Hit and Miss Engines - what to look for?
« Reply #9 on: October 14, 2018, 04:11:57 PM »
Hit and miss engine?? Isnít that what member POSTON used to have ;D ;D ;D.
TimberKing 1600, 30' gooseneck trailer, Chevy HD2500, Echo Chainsaw, 60" Logrite.

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Online samandothers

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Re: Hit and Miss Engines - what to look for?
« Reply #10 on: October 14, 2018, 08:53:54 PM »
Don
Might be some at Ferrum College 10/27.  It I the annual fall festival.  I have not been ince the late 70's early 80's, but they were there then.  Floyd had a fall festival last weekend and was one there.

I'll help with taste testing!

Offline Don P

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Re: Hit and Miss Engines - what to look for?
« Reply #11 on: October 14, 2018, 09:03:45 PM »
We've tried to get one here a few times but don't have large enough events to lure those guys. There are the usual county events where it would be nice to have one. I've been pricing the churns this afternoon, wow, I thought the engine was the expensive part!

I can see recipe R&D is not something to rush through ;D
The big Amish freezer maker sells ice cream powder "tastes great", I think I'll pass on that.
When I lived in Raleigh there was a ice cream plant nearby that I passed often. Pet would send them tanker trucks of a liquid ice cream mix that came from the dairy. We do have a really good Jersey dairy over in Rural Retreat, talk about cream.

Offline lxskllr

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Re: Hit and Miss Engines - what to look for?
« Reply #12 on: October 14, 2018, 09:04:09 PM »
Never heard of them. I just read a bit on wikipedia, and they look terrible
Here is one that one of my customers had running:


That's a neat thing. Still not sure I'd want to build around one, but it's pretty cool seeing something that old run.

Offline scsmith42

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Re: Hit and Miss Engines - what to look for?
« Reply #13 on: October 14, 2018, 11:33:33 PM »
Don, there is a fantastic engine show in Carthage NC the first weekend in November.  Itís called Ederville NC and there will be a lot of experts available for questions.

I would also suggest that you send RockingJL a PM.  Heís my brother and has been heavily involved with hit and miss engines for 30+ years.

Scott
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Offline Don P

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Re: Hit and Miss Engines - what to look for?
« Reply #14 on: October 15, 2018, 07:42:27 AM »
Good deal, thanks Scott!
We're heading down Wed to the show in Fletcher, I went to it several years ago, well, I was supposed to be next door admiring spinning equipment, heard old iron and gnawed my leash :D.

Offline Al_Smith

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Re: Hit and Miss Engines - what to look for?
« Reply #15 on: October 15, 2018, 09:34:26 AM »
For clarification old "flywheel " engines could either be hit and miss or constant fire .Many of those ice cream churns I've seen either used John-Deere or McCormick -Deering stationary engines of low horse power . I would imagine because so many of these were made would explain that .
In other news that steamer I watched yesterday at my buds was 20HP .He just got back from vacation watching this one:  Couldn't get the link to work . Do a Google on Case 150 HP road locomotive .

Offline rockingjl

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Re: Hit and Miss Engines - what to look for?
« Reply #16 on: October 15, 2018, 09:48:17 AM »
Hey Don. Good to see your interest in hit & miss engines. Lot of good advise here as expected from this group. Education is best place to start. Smokstak is a good forum to go and do search. The Ken Eder show is awesome, I am planning to be there with Scott on sunday. Going to shows and talking to guys in your area is good place to start. Ice Cream maker set ups can usually be a little pricey. Also sometimes guys try to get by with a smaller engine than what is required. The ones with a larger freezer run more and generally require a larger engine to run them. Another consideration is transportation and storage. Good luck in your search.

Offline Don P

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Re: Hit and Miss Engines - what to look for?
« Reply #17 on: October 15, 2018, 08:57:07 PM »
Hi rockingjl, Thanks for the links and advice, thanks everyone for the advice! I'm off on a new adventure on this. We'll probably just wander and learn this trip.

I'm stumped on hp required and after seeing the 20 qt freezer prices I'm not sure that is the way we can go. Looking at weight and size the 1-1/2-2 hp look like plenty to move.  I'm thinking of just hooking up a couple of 6-8 quart freezers to that.  It looks like that would save a grand in freezer cost, smaller batches but quicker and more variety possible. It would be more shafts and pulleys, need to figure out a clutch or clutches, I doubt you want to be stopping and starting one of those engines too many times a day.

I enjoy watching steam but have no desire to play with it. Those old traction engines are cool though.
We started cutting up the old abandoned coal/oil boiler in the basement at work, low pressure but I think the same basic setup; firebox, firetubes and a boiler jacket with rods between the inner and outer jackets. As Murphy goes, we got the cart and tanks wrestled down the stairs and that fresh tank of oxygen was probably fresh a little longer ago than we remembered ::).

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Re: Hit and Miss Engines - what to look for?
« Reply #18 on: October 16, 2018, 05:30:43 PM »
There are some Amish folks out in central Nebraska that have two ice makers set up they use John Deere Model E 1 1/2 HP motors. I have never paid attention to what size the freezers are they are always set up for the Nebraska Junk Jant that was just a couple of weeks ago in Sep. Their are a lot of the JD model E motor around. Check Craigs list.

Offline Don P

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Re: Hit and Miss Engines - what to look for?
« Reply #19 on: October 19, 2018, 08:35:11 AM »
We made it out alive :D. We had a good time yesterday. We loaded up pumpkins in Rick's truck and hit the road early stopping by a special needs school along the way that had put out a call for punkins for the kids. We visited with them for a little bit then did the last few miles down to the fairgrounds in Fletcher and wandered in. The show was much smaller this year, a couple of other shows had overlapped on the weekend and it really took a toll but it gave us more time to visit with the folks that were there. It was close, we almost walked out with an old Stover 2 hp but cooler heads prevailed and we continued to look and learn. There was a large Mogul engine hooked to an antique Meadows gristmill making Grits and cornmeal, yup, the same Meadows of sawmill fame. Around Statesville on the way home we were contemplating stopping for chow when I remembered Michelle had thrown a sack in the back, 3 huge slices of banana bread and we were good to go getting back to our trucks downtown at about 9. Gotta love a small town, we had forgotten to unload gear from felling and hauling from one of the trucks from the day before, everything just as we left it. Rick has an older cub that needs parts and we saw a lot of parts there but didn't have a list. I saw a couple of corner chisels but they were in pretty rough shape. I've wanted to pick one up since Grandad's got away from me. We'll see how schedules work but we might make it down to Ederville.

Offline scsmith42

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Re: Hit and Miss Engines - what to look for?
« Reply #20 on: October 19, 2018, 01:13:20 PM »
We made it out alive :D. We had a good time yesterday. We loaded up pumpkins in Rick's truck and hit the road early stopping by a special needs school along the way that had put out a call for punkins for the kids. We visited with them for a little bit then did the last few miles down to the fairgrounds in Fletcher and wandered in. The show was much smaller this year, a couple of other shows had overlapped on the weekend and it really took a toll but it gave us more time to visit with the folks that were there. It was close, we almost walked out with an old Stover 2 hp but cooler heads prevailed and we continued to look and learn. There was a large Mogul engine hooked to an antique Meadows gristmill making Grits and cornmeal, yup, the same Meadows of sawmill fame. Around Statesville on the way home we were contemplating stopping for chow when I remembered Michelle had thrown a sack in the back, 3 huge slices of banana bread and we were good to go getting back to our trucks downtown at about 9. Gotta love a small town, we had forgotten to unload gear from felling and hauling from one of the trucks from the day before, everything just as we left it. Rick has an older cub that needs parts and we saw a lot of parts there but didn't have a list. I saw a couple of corner chisels but they were in pretty rough shape. I've wanted to pick one up since Grandad's got away from me. We'll see how schedules work but we might make it down to Ederville.
Don, if you can make it down to Ederville let me know.  Jeff and I will be there on Sunday.

A friend of mine has a local show at his place on Saturday morning and early afternoon (Ederville weekend), if you want to make a two day event out of it let me know and Iíll get you an invite to Robertís show.
Scott
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Smith - Gallagher dedicated slabber
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and a mix of log handling heavy equipment.

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Re: Hit and Miss Engines - what to look for?
« Reply #21 on: October 23, 2018, 09:43:14 PM »
Most ice cream makers I see are run by 1 1/2 hp hit and miss engines.  Seems most prefer John Deere engines, however any brand will work.  As you will see the ice cream parts will be quite expensive.  Lots of repo parts for john Deere and Mccormick engines. 

Offline Don P

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Re: Hit and Miss Engines - what to look for?
« Reply #22 on: October 25, 2018, 10:02:10 PM »
The big freezers are sure expensive, I think I'll try to run a couple of small ones. I'm thinking of belting from the engine down and back, under the cart and use the underside of the cart rails to bolt pillow blocks to, run a shaft across the underside with a big flatbelt pulley outboard to belt to the engine and do the first stepdown. The clutch could be an idler pulley on that belt. Then have a small pulley centered underneath on that shaft. Then from that pulley run to the rear where there is a similar cross cart shaft with a pulley. Between those I should be able to drop 10:1 or so and be in the right range.

I'm trying to figure out how to come up vertically between freezers and make a quick easy, removable connection with the freezers. The big ones use a lovejoy type connection in 2 pieces. That might be the best way.

I'm not sure yet, might have to take a rain check this time, a friend's home burned.

Offline btulloh

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Re: Hit and Miss Engines - what to look for?
« Reply #23 on: October 26, 2018, 08:39:39 AM »
Pitman arm    Disregard that!  Lost my mind for a minute.

You could have bevel gears on both ends of the vertical shaft if you had a way to easily fasten/unfasten the freezer in position.  Maybe a split block of lignum vitae at the top with a swing bolt and wing nut.  That would be period correct.
HM126


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