The Forestry Forum is sponsored in part by:

AVAILABLE


Forestry Forum
Sponsored by:


TimberKing Sawmills



Toll Free 1-800-582-0470

LogRite Tools



Norwood Industries Inc.


Sawmill & Woodlot Magazine



Your source for Portable Sawmills, Edgers, Resaws, Sharpeners, Setters, Bandsaw Blades and Sawmill Parts

EZ Boardwalk Sawmills. More Saw For Less Money!

STIHLDealers.com sponsored by Northeast STIHL


Woodland Sawmills

Peterson Swingmills

 KASCO SharpTech WoodMaxx Blades

Turbosawmill

Sawmill Exchange

BRUTE FORCE Authorized Dealer

Woodshax Outdoor Vending Solutions

FARMA


Council Tool

Baker Products

ECHO-Bearcat



Author Topic: Excavator or bulldozer for road building  (Read 3629 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline erin

  • member
  • *
  • Posts: 6
  • Age: 20
  • Location: Ontario Canada
  • Gender: Female
  • I'm new!
    • Share Post
Excavator or bulldozer for road building
« on: November 05, 2018, 04:31:07 PM »
Excavator vs dozer. Trying to figure out what would work best for skid road building on extreme terrain, wondering what models you use. 
Thanks E. 

Offline snowstorm

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 3731
  • Location: maine
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: Excavator or bulldozer for road building
« Reply #1 on: November 05, 2018, 04:38:44 PM »
excavator by far

Offline maple flats

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 1928
  • Age: 72
  • Location: Oneida, NY
  • Gender: Male
  • Life is what you make it!
    • Share Post
    • Dave and Joan's sugarhouse web site
Re: Excavator or bulldozer for road building
« Reply #2 on: November 05, 2018, 04:46:51 PM »
Give a few more details. What is the "extreme terrain" like? Will it need cutting roads into a side hill for a significant part? If yes, how steep? This will all help me or someone else answer.
I have used both, but my land is fairly level and in my lease the roads were already there.
logging small time for years but just learning how,  2012 36 HP Mahindra tractor, 3point log arch, 8000# class excavator, lifts 2500# and sets logs on mill precisely where needed,  Peterson ATS upgraded to WPF mill, maple syrup a hobby that consumes my time. looking to learn blacksmithing.

Offline Stuart Caruk

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 415
  • Location: Ridgefield WA USA
  • Gender: Female
  • Woodmizer LX450 DieselStationary timber processing
    • Share Post
Re: Excavator or bulldozer for road building
« Reply #3 on: November 05, 2018, 04:50:20 PM »
Kobelco Bladerunner. Then you get the best of both machines. The excavator is naturally handy for clearing brush, rocks, stumps, trees, making drainage ditches. Throw a stump splitter / root saw on it and it will dig out stumps bigger than the machine. It grades like a D6 cat. Only issue is it doesn't like to turn tight with a full blade of dirt, but it will move an impressive pile of brush. The 6 way blade is super for cutting in a road that is on a hillside. Makes a decent log loader as well. I'm very happy with mine.



Stuart Caruk
Wood-Mizer LX450 Diesel w/ debarker and home brewed extension, live log deck and outfeed rolls. Woodmizer twin blade edger, Barko 450 log loader, Clark 666 Grapple Skidder w/ 200' of mainline. Bobcats and forklifts.

Online barbender

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 5866
  • Age: 43
  • Location: Deer River MN
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: Excavator or bulldozer for road building
« Reply #4 on: November 06, 2018, 12:08:10 AM »
Our company has 6 or 7 dozers, and no excavator. We probably should have one, but we get by renting or contracting it out. We really only use them when we have culvert work, otherwise it's all dozers.
Too many irons in the fire

Online Southside logger

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 3049
  • Age: 46
  • Location: Wilsons (Dinwiddie County), VA
  • Gender: Male
  • Have a plan to saw every log you meet.
    • Share Post
Re: Excavator or bulldozer for road building
« Reply #5 on: November 06, 2018, 12:50:20 AM »
Depends on the soil you are working in. Shale go with the excavator, clay use a dozer. 
Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
Enough cows to ensure there is no spare time.

Offline Ianab

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 12757
  • Age: 56
  • Location: Stratford , New Zealand
  • Gender: Male
  • Marmite on toast is a real breakfast
    • Share Post
Re: Excavator or bulldozer for road building
« Reply #6 on: November 06, 2018, 04:00:50 AM »
Locally the loggers tend to use a large excavator because they are just so versatile. You can make tracks / stream crossings etc as needed. Push down hazard trees and clear up other logging "mishaps". There is even the option of "shovel logging" in small difficult access areas. Then they put a grapple on and use it on the landing. Sorting logs into grades and loading trucks etc. (No one uses self loaders here, so the crew need something that can load a truck and trailer) 

Bulldozers have their place, and for pushing a lot of dirt around they are better, or forming a long track across a hillside etc. But they don't have that versatility that an excavator has. 
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

Offline mike_belben

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 3569
  • Location: Middle TN
  • Pulp Friction
    • Share Post
Re: Excavator or bulldozer for road building
« Reply #7 on: November 06, 2018, 07:38:34 AM »
Cutting aross real steep and rocky sidehills id prefer an excavator.. Dozers dont like running on rock and you have to make many passes over the same area to finish.  An excavator is only repositioning itself periodically and can do so very slowly onto terrain it has already smoothed. 


As SSL pointed out, in wet clay the dozer has an advantage.  excavator bucket will load up with clay that sticks in it and then big plops will fall out that arent easy to spread well.. They gum together then restick when you try to spread them which would leave a very poor road.  Waiting for that condition to dry could be 4 months.  Atleast the dozer will cast off a flat cut even if the pile doesnt roll off so pretty as during better conditions.  



For big stumping a thumbed or ripper equiped excavator has a large advantage.  It takes a big dozer to stump as efficiently as a mid sized digger.  I think a track loader is also better at stumping than a same sized dozer.  My 450 track loader with a clamshell bucket will do about twice as many as my D31 (550ish sized) in same time. 

Stuarts machine is the cats meow though. 
Revelation 3:20

Offline Resonator

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 307
  • Age: 43
  • Location: Woods near Wausau, WI
  • Gender: Male
  • Board Footage and Cord Woodage
    • Share Post
Re: Excavator or bulldozer for road building
« Reply #8 on: November 06, 2018, 08:17:32 AM »
I would prefer an excavator instead of a dozer, just because it has the handy hydraulic attachment to reach out and pull yourself out when your stuck!  
Under bark there's boards and beams, somewhere in between.
Cuttin' while its green, through a steady sawdust stream.
I'm chasing the sawdust dream.

Proud owner of a Wood-Mizer 2017 LT28G19

Offline mike_belben

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 3569
  • Location: Middle TN
  • Pulp Friction
    • Share Post
Re: Excavator or bulldozer for road building
« Reply #9 on: November 06, 2018, 08:26:40 AM »
On a 6 way dozer you row yourself backward by the blade corners.  Which doesnt work so good when you sideslip and pin yourself in front of a tree.  This is how i found the watertable that created my 2nd small pond

;D
Revelation 3:20

Offline Plankton

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 260
  • Location: Western MA
  • I'm new!
    • Share Post
Re: Excavator or bulldozer for road building
« Reply #10 on: November 06, 2018, 08:51:57 AM »
I think whichever machine your more comfortable on, a buddy of mine does everything with a dozer and I prefer to use an excavator. Any discussion we've had on a road building machine or best dirt work machine for a small logging company we ussually end up deciding both.

One place I think a ex (with thumb) comes in real handy is punching a road through uncut woods. It can push all the trees down the road and shovel log the wood into bunches or whatnot, then scatter or move to the sides the slash as well as do all the dirtwork. One machine and operator.

Offline woodmaker

  • Full Member x2
  • ***
  • Posts: 124
  • Location: southwest N.H.
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm new!
    • Share Post
Re: Excavator or bulldozer for road building
« Reply #11 on: November 06, 2018, 12:32:30 PM »
Over the last 30+years,I have built or improved  over a hundred miles of road for logging; some just skid roads,most good enough for log trucks,some good enough for a tractor trailer .Unless there was material to be spread for a top coat,the work was done with a 200 size excavator with a hydraulic thumb. I have a small dozer (td 8 ) and a large dozer (td 20) that rarely get used because the excavator will do everything but push material a long distance
franklin q80,builtrite 40,husky 372,sachs dolmar 123, dozers,excavators,loaders,tri-axle dump trucks ,autocar tractor with dump,flatbed and detachable trailers, and 8  f350 diesels

Offline Riwaka

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 318
  • I'm new!
    • Share Post
Re: Excavator or bulldozer for road building
« Reply #12 on: November 06, 2018, 04:15:55 PM »
Depends on the definition of skid road and haul road and skid trail etc.

In rough terrain, cable logging might need a skidder, forwarder or off road/ rough road log truck 8x8, 6x6 adt type drive  etc to 2 stage to a (smooth)road log truck loading area, if the cost or terrain prevents a (smooth)log road truck.

Rock drill units for explosive holes, vibrating rollers,  compaction roller, 'steel compaction wheel dozers',  graders, articulated dump trucks - if dirt, rock needs a distance move, road truck tipper for rock fill, bring in culvert pipes etc.

rock drill.

Compactor - Wikipedia

Online barbender

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 5866
  • Age: 43
  • Location: Deer River MN
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: Excavator or bulldozer for road building
« Reply #13 on: November 06, 2018, 06:40:14 PM »
How are you guys using the excavator to make a road smooth enough that trucks can drive down it faster than idling in low gear? I'm missing something.
Too many irons in the fire

Online Southside logger

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 3049
  • Age: 46
  • Location: Wilsons (Dinwiddie County), VA
  • Gender: Male
  • Have a plan to saw every log you meet.
    • Share Post
Re: Excavator or bulldozer for road building
« Reply #14 on: November 06, 2018, 07:39:53 PM »
Guess you don't have many good shovel operators over your way?   ;D  Just kidding - valid point, in shale ground we used a motor grader behind the shovel to crown the road, so yea - two pieces of equipment in the end.  Not sure I would want to do it with a blade on just an excavator - perhaps for a very short road, but nothing long.  
Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
Enough cows to ensure there is no spare time.

Offline chevytaHOE5674

  • Forester
  • *
  • Posts: 3092
  • Location: Ontonagon Mi
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: Excavator or bulldozer for road building
« Reply #15 on: November 06, 2018, 08:11:05 PM »
Most guys have both around here for road building. Use the hoe for stumping, ditching, culverts, etc. Dozer for the final smoothing and crowning.

Seen guys build entire road with a hoe or dozer by itself and while it can be done it usually takes longer. But often you make do with what you got. I stumped, ditched, and graded about an 1/4 of a mile of road with the forwarder one time because we were in a crunch to move wood and had no time to wait on somebody. Ideal? Heck no. But it got the wood moved.

Offline scsmith42

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 4639
  • Age: 58
  • Location: New Hill, NC
  • Gender: Male
  • He who dies with the most toys... WINS!!!
    • Share Post
    • Whispering Pines Farm
Re: Excavator or bulldozer for road building
« Reply #16 on: November 06, 2018, 11:46:16 PM »
Most guys have both around here for road building. Use the hoe for stumping, ditching, culverts, etc. Dozer for the final smoothing and crowning.

Seen guys build entire road with a hoe or dozer by itself and while it can be done it usually takes longer. But often you make do with what you got. I stumped, ditched, and graded about an 1/4 of a mile of road with the forwarder one time because we were in a crunch to move wood and had no time to wait on somebody. Ideal? Heck no. But it got the wood moved.
My thoughts as well.
Peterson 10" WPF with 65' of track
Smith - Gallagher dedicated slabber
Tom's 3638D Baker band mill
and a mix of log handling heavy equipment.

Online barbender

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 5866
  • Age: 43
  • Location: Deer River MN
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: Excavator or bulldozer for road building
« Reply #17 on: November 06, 2018, 11:57:01 PM »
That's kinda what I thought😊 I've put in my share of forwarder built landings and truck turn arounds, there's been jokes directed my way about putting a 6 way blade on my forwarder lol. I guess it's just the way we're set up, but we're typically not going to bring a hoe out unless there is culvert work, or some mass excavation. Regular stumping crowning and smoothing is done with dozers, and that's typical of the industry up here.
Too many irons in the fire

Offline Ianab

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 12757
  • Age: 56
  • Location: Stratford , New Zealand
  • Gender: Male
  • Marmite on toast is a real breakfast
    • Share Post
Re: Excavator or bulldozer for road building
« Reply #18 on: November 07, 2018, 01:13:34 AM »
How are you guys using the excavator to make a road smooth enough that trucks can drive down it faster than idling in low gear? I'm missing something.
Local guys are able to put in a pretty smooth track with just an excavator, but it's going to take longer. A bigger job (longer road or more dirt to move) will justify bringing in a bulldozer. 
But if it's only one machine, the excavator is the most versatile. Just not the "best" option for every job. 
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

Offline LeeB

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 7583
  • Age: 59
  • Location: Yellville Arkansas
  • Gender: Male
  • proud to be a TEXAN in Arkansas
    • Share Post
Re: Excavator or bulldozer for road building
« Reply #19 on: November 07, 2018, 01:26:23 AM »
I worked with one fellah that good grade better with a hoe than most could with a blade. He could part your hair with it. Never have seen anyone else that good.
'98 LT40HDD/Lombardini, Case 580L, Cat D4C, JD 3032 tractor, JD 5410 tractor, Husky 346, 372 and 562XP's. Stihl MS180 and MS361, 1998 and 2006 3/4 Ton 5.9 Cummins 4x4's, 1989 Dodge D100 w/ 318, and a 1966 Chevy C60 w/ dump bed.


Share via delicious Share via digg Share via facebook Share via linkedin Share via pinterest Share via reddit Share via stumble Share via tumblr Share via twitter

xx
Road Building Fatality

Started by Tillaway on Health and Safety

2 Replies
1293 Views
Last post December 01, 2006, 01:02:33 AM
by Tillaway
xx
Good road-building on woodlots

Started by livemusic on Forestry and Logging

16 Replies
1730 Views
Last post March 19, 2017, 03:22:11 AM
by mike_belben
xx
Skid road bridge building?

Started by David_c on Forestry and Logging

26 Replies
6692 Views
Last post December 07, 2007, 03:07:18 PM
by ely
xx
Woodlot road building - use or not use old logging roads?

Started by kwendt on General Board

25 Replies
3274 Views
Last post January 08, 2015, 09:17:27 AM
by kwendt
 


Powered by EzPortal