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Author Topic: WHat do YOU think I should think?  (Read 2532 times)

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Offline Old Greenhorn

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WHat do YOU think I should think?
« on: November 23, 2018, 04:32:27 PM »
So a few days ago I had plowed one of the skid roads that connects to a neighboring property. One of the reasons this road was cut 30+ years ago was to provide the two adjoining land owners a second (escape) route off their property in case of blizzard or hurricane weather. Both properties have steep main driveways that could ice up or get covered with blow downs. The road sat in disrepair for 20 years until I cut off off the deadfall and leaners last spring and made it serviceable again. I even visited the neighbor once over the summer via this road and he waved me up to the house for a nice visit. He seemed pleased the road was available again. 
 I returned today after finishing work at the mill to see if the snow had melted off of it and if it needed touch up. I found this 4 foot by 4 foot sign laying in the middle of the road:



 

I laughed and turned around, but then i thought about it. So I went back to the mill grabbed a piece of hemlock slat and cut a point on it. I came back and set the stake, then took some marking paint and on the back side I wrote "Neighbors Welcome" and screwed it to the post. His sign still faces away from his property and mine faces his.
 I have had a casual but friendly relationship with this neighbor for 30 years and his son and I do business all the time. He is getting older and his health could be better. Some (including his son) say he is getting "Crusty" but I have not seen that. I am wondering if:

A) He was just joking with me for a good laugh?
B) He was mad about something?
or
C) He just put the sign up because hunting season is open and he didn't want folks walking through? (not a common problem here)

I know he has issues with the neighbor on his other side, but I don't meddle or know what that's about. I do know that neighbor is not local.
Anyway, I am not sure what to think here and wonder if any of you have thoughts?
 My first thought was to go knock on his door, but I didn't want to walk into a firestorm of some sort. What would you do?
Tom
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Online lxskllr

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Re: WHat do YOU think I should think?
« Reply #1 on: November 23, 2018, 04:51:11 PM »
You should think he has terrible spelling and penmanship  :^D

I ignore my neighbors. I keep to myself, and pretend they aren't there. My left neighbors are alright. The ones on the right don't belong here, and the new ones across the street rev their drag car every so often, and shake my walls. If it weren't for my left neighbors, I'd run my chainsaws at daybreak. The rest of them don't deserve the courtesy. So I ignore them all, and percieve the world in my head. It's better than the real world.

Offline thecfarm

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Re: WHat do YOU think I should think?
« Reply #2 on: November 23, 2018, 04:57:56 PM »
I would go talk to him. At least you will know where you stand with him when you leave his yard.
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Offline maple flats

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Re: WHat do YOU think I should think?
« Reply #3 on: November 23, 2018, 05:11:51 PM »
That's exactly what I would do too. Ask and you will know, but maybe you want to use the regular driveway, not that extra one.
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Offline low_48

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Re: WHat do YOU think I should think?
« Reply #4 on: November 23, 2018, 05:38:59 PM »
They need auto correct on the spelling

Offline SawyerTed

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Re: WHat do YOU think I should think?
« Reply #5 on: November 23, 2018, 05:56:07 PM »
A friendly visit to the neighbor to see who the sign is meant for is what I would suggest.   Maybe somebody else made him mad and the sign isn't for you.  If you did something at least you will find out and can try to patch things up.
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Offline Don P

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Re: WHat do YOU think I should think?
« Reply #6 on: November 23, 2018, 07:07:38 PM »
I would respect his wishes, stay on my side of the line and let him make contact if he wishes to.
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Offline olcowhand

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Re: WHat do YOU think I should think?
« Reply #7 on: November 23, 2018, 07:19:09 PM »
Proverbs 25:9
At least some of it applies; maybe all.
They say the mind is the first to go; I'm glad it's something I don't use!

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Offline Southside

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Re: WHat do YOU think I should think?
« Reply #8 on: November 23, 2018, 07:21:24 PM »
You could always call him.  Perception can be everything, what I mean is that you don't think there is much of a hunting trespass issue but he may feel there is.  I can tell you that when I have a pack of hounds in with my close up cows - as I did this morning - my perception of the hunting trespass issue is very different than the guys who are waiting for those hounds to show up 4 miles away.
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Offline Ron Wenrich

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Re: WHat do YOU think I should think?
« Reply #9 on: November 24, 2018, 06:48:34 PM »
If you want to know exactly the intent, you'll have to talk to him.  At a minimum, take some coffee and a 6 pack of donuts.  Or maybe a 6 pack of adult beverages.  If he was decent before, chances are he'll be accommodating again.  
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Offline glassman_48

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Re: WHat do YOU think I should think?
« Reply #10 on: November 24, 2018, 08:18:53 PM »
If you go visit him, I would take someone with you.  Something does not makes sense if he was decent to you this spring.  Maybe something "snapped" in him between last spring and now. Either way I would be cautious. 

Offline mike_belben

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Re: WHat do YOU think I should think?
« Reply #11 on: November 24, 2018, 10:23:43 PM »
'Hey bill.  Whats up with the sign, you mad at me about something?  Whats goin on?'

I cant read the last word, whats it say? 

Its a common storebought sign though, traspassers will be shot, survivors will be shot again.  Maybe he just saw one and thought it was cute. 
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Re: WHat do YOU think I should think?
« Reply #12 on: November 25, 2018, 07:40:16 AM »


I cant read the last word, whats it say?

"survivors profit" I think he's challenging Greenhorn to a duel, and the winner gets title to the land  :^P

Offline Old Greenhorn

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Re: WHat do YOU think I should think?
« Reply #13 on: November 25, 2018, 08:17:20 AM »
I believe the last word is "prosecuted" or at least that is the intent. I am trying to work up the courage and find the time to stop in. Was hoping to see him out in his yard, but this weather makes that unlikely.
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Offline DR_Buck

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Re: WHat do YOU think I should think?
« Reply #14 on: November 25, 2018, 08:53:47 AM »
The more fundamental question is "Who owns the roadway you cleared?"   Who's deed is it on and is it an established and documented (in legal papers) right of way?     Depending on state laws rights-of-way across your property you pay taxes on cannot be signed, restricted or blocked.   You may have opened a can of worms by clearing the roadway.   If one of your neighbors sells and the "established second entry" to their property is part of the sale you could end up in an expensive legal battle.  

If it was not needed or used for over 20 years, why would it be needed now?   What's changed?   If it was me and it was on my land it would have remained overgrown.    
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Online btulloh

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Re: WHat do YOU think I should think?
« Reply #15 on: November 25, 2018, 09:25:13 AM »
Lots of good suggestions here about talking to him.  No way to guess what somebody's thinking.  And be accurate.

Offline Ron Scott

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Re: WHat do YOU think I should think?
« Reply #16 on: November 25, 2018, 11:05:48 PM »
Is it a dedicated road? Who has jurisdiction of it?
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Offline SawyerTed

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Re: WHat do YOU think I should think?
« Reply #17 on: November 26, 2018, 06:18:37 PM »
Old Greenhorn, there's no certainty that the sign was meant for you and no certainty that your neighbor even created it.  Talk to your neighbor or your nieghbor's son.

I went fishing one time with an acquaintance to a private lake.  When we got back to my truck there was a note on my windshield with a message similar to that sign, spelling and grammar mistakes and all.  The acquaintance supposedly had permission to fish the lake.  I ignored the note, after a while the acquaintance couldn't stand it anymore and asked if the note bothered me.  I told him it didn't.  He finally admitted he wrote the note.  I admitted the lake belonged to my well educated uncle.
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Offline Old Greenhorn

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Re: WHat do YOU think I should think?
« Reply #18 on: November 26, 2018, 07:17:03 PM »
I talked to the son today. He doesn't think it has any thing to do with me. He is more concerned that his Dad may be getting dementia because he asks questions repeatedly about things and gets confused about where his property line is then gets mad at folks for the wrong reasons. I told the son that I had two concerns: a) If there is a mis-understanding that involves me in any way. I need to fix that. I don't want bad feelings with people I consider friends when it should be easy to fix and make right. and B) if somebody IS going down that road then we need to do something about it together and I will have a chain up there across the road faster than you can blink. Anyway, he will talk to him in the next couple of days if I don't run into him first.

 To answer some of the other questions I have seen here: This is not my property, it belongs to a neighbor who only comes on weekends and holidays. I manage the woodlot, do TSI work, and other improvements. We have a sawmill and a shed I am building down in the woods out of sight from everyone. I check the house everyday, use his hot tub when my body aches, take in his mail and deliveries, and act in his stead in emergencies, or call him to advise him of a problem (and usually arrange for a fix). I have the run of the place and treat it better than my own. I also feel responsible for what goes on there. I like his kids and try to teach them some things they won't learn in the city. I think they like me. We are good friends and go to music events together, play some tunes, and confide in each other. I have even sung backup on a tune his band recorded at a local studio (geez we have a ton of recording studios around here). I take no money for any of this, its just friendship and I do love working in the woods which really confounds my friend. (He sees me sweating and working until I wobble and ache and he wonders why I do it, but I am having fun and he just doesn't understand the joy I get from simple accomplishments.) Any major work gets referred to local folks and he deals with them directly. This property borders the neighbor in question's property. So I am acting for the landowner in this discussion, with his consent. However, I am across the road from both of these folks and they are both my neighbors. I want good relations with everyone and barring that, at least an understanding to leave each other alone. I have only one neighbor who I have not enjoyed one day living next to.... for 30 years... he just sold his house and moved out this week. I like getting along with my neighbors and helping them when I can. Some day I may need some help although that hasn't happened yet. I live here, I want to enjoy it, smile and wave at everyone who goes by. (Except maybe that state trooper who has a place down the road and looks at everyone with suspicion and has a habit of showing up 'just to chat' when he sees something going on, him I don't trust.)
Tom
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Offline moodnacreek

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Re: WHat do YOU think I should think?
« Reply #19 on: November 26, 2018, 07:19:11 PM »
Went for a hike in the mountains and stumbled on a bear stand, camera, treestand etc.  I knew whose spot it was so being a wise guy I wrote with my lumber crayon , on a rock: NO Hunting.  About 2 weeks later I get a call and they wondered if I was up there and they where all upset about the writing I did. Turns out a hunting spot feud was going on and I made it worse.

Offline Old Greenhorn

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Re: WHat do YOU think I should think?
« Reply #20 on: November 26, 2018, 07:42:03 PM »
The more fundamental question is "Who owns the roadway you cleared?"   Who's deed is it on and is it an established and documented (in legal papers) right of way?     Depending on state laws rights-of-way across your property you pay taxes on cannot be signed, restricted or blocked.   You may have opened a can of worms by clearing the roadway.   If one of your neighbors sells and the "established second entry" to their property is part of the sale you could end up in an expensive legal battle.  

If it was not needed or used for over 20 years, why would it be needed now?   What's changed?   If it was me and it was on my land it would have remained overgrown.    
It's just a skid road, graded and layered with crushed stone and rock. It is on the primary landowners property that I manage for, but continues about 100' past the line up to the edge of his (the neighbor's) lawn. The major clearing I did was on the road I manage and I only cleared some dead brush off of his part. I cut no trees on his land and even left the seedlings standing in the middle of the road. Transfer of ownership would have no impact here, there were no changes made. The road was made as an informal friendly agreement between the two landowners at the time as an easy way to visit each other, a nice evening strolling path, and the aforementioned escape route). The previous owner of the land I manage was a good friend for nearly 30 years before he passed (He phoned as he was dying to ask for help, I was 80 miles away). I still miss him a lot. The new owner (2 years now) is a new friend, even closer. As for leaving it overgrown, we just don't have enough land to work with here and I like it to look nice and be accessible to those who would enjoy it. It's also a road I use for dragging our logs to the splitter or the mill, so I needed it open and clear.
Oh, and this is not a 'second entry' to either property. It does not connect with the main (public) road, it only connects each property to the other. Just like if we had a gate between your back yard and mine. It's not even shown on the survey maps as any more than a trail.
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Offline SawyerTed

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Re: WHat do YOU think I should think?
« Reply #21 on: November 26, 2018, 08:23:26 PM »
Tom, you are a gentleman I'd consider a good neighbor.  Too many times lack of communication creates adversarial feelings where none should exist between nieghbors.  Keeping things open, friendly and honest is the right way.  Being trustworthy with neighbors pays dividends in the long run.  

Dementia is an horrible disease.  I pray your neighbor doesn't have it.  We've just been down that road with my MIL.  
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Offline Old Greenhorn

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Re: WHat do YOU think I should think?
« Reply #22 on: November 26, 2018, 09:24:54 PM »
Tom, you are a gentleman I'd consider a good neighbor.  .......
That's a nice thing to say. I try, I will admit that, but it takes two, you know. I don't push, but I try to be around. When I was active in the Fire Dept. as an EMT and a firefighter (I retired about 2 years ago) I would have a LOT of folks call me instead of 911 looking for help. Most times I would take a 5 second description of the problem, then tell them to hang up and call 911 to get a crew on the road, then head off to help them. I will confess that this could be a burden at times (like 3am), but how do you deny someone help when they need it most and are scared? This is why I left the fire dept., it just got to be too much and I was getting too old to keep up the pace, plus my family life was suffering. (I averaged 35 hours a week for the fire dept with calls, drills and meetings on top of my 45 our a week paying job.) In fact, now that I recall, this neighbor we are talking about, years ago had a brush fire on his place and tried to put it out himself. I responded with a crew and an engine and we handled it easy, but he had taken a slide down the cliff in his excitement and gotten his legs all cut up on the ragged bluestone. I cleaned and wrapped his wounds and got a ration of ____ from my Officer for 'treating in the field' instead of transporting him to the hospital (which he did not need). I knew what he needed and I did that, it made him happy, saved him an ER bill, and I was fine taking the flak for it.  I even checked in on him in the coming days to mark his healing progress. So yeah, maybe I am a good guy, but I just want everyone to be happy and comfortable in their own homes on their own land. BTW, I still get those calls for help, but not at 3am, at least not recently. But thankfully the days seem to have ended when a woman I don't know will come up to me in a store or someplace and babel on about how I saved her son's [husband, daughter, neighor's, etc.] life. I always hated that, it was very embarrassing and most often an exaggeration of what happened, assuming I knew the call she was talking about. It was just my job, but now it is no longer. I like that they don't remember or recognize me anymore. But I still like to be a good neighbor, it is so much easier that way.
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Offline mike_belben

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Re: WHat do YOU think I should think?
« Reply #23 on: November 26, 2018, 11:54:29 PM »
Youre a good man Charlie Brown.  The world is suffering from a shortage of such folks as of late. 
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Offline Crusarius

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Re: WHat do YOU think I should think?
« Reply #24 on: November 27, 2018, 08:22:56 AM »
Tom, you are a gentleman I'd consider a good neighbor.  .......
That's a nice thing to say. I try, I will admit that, but it takes two, you know. I don't push, but I try to be around. When I was active in the Fire Dept. as an EMT and a firefighter (I retired about 2 years ago) I would have a LOT of folks call me instead of 911 looking for help. Most times I would take a 5 second description of the problem, then tell them to hang up and call 911 to get a crew on the road, then head off to help them. I will confess that this could be a burden at times (like 3am), but how do you deny someone help when they need it most and are scared? This is why I left the fire dept., it just got to be too much and I was getting too old to keep up the pace, plus my family life was suffering. (I averaged 35 hours a week for the fire dept with calls, drills and meetings on top of my 45 our a week paying job.) In fact, now that I recall, this neighbor we are talking about, years ago had a brush fire on his place and tried to put it out himself. I responded with a crew and an engine and we handled it easy, but he had taken a slide down the cliff in his excitement and gotten his legs all cut up on the ragged bluestone. I cleaned and wrapped his wounds and got a ration of ____ from my Officer for 'treating in the field' instead of transporting him to the hospital (which he did not need). I knew what he needed and I did that, it made him happy, saved him an ER bill, and I was fine taking the flak for it.  I even checked in on him in the coming days to mark his healing progress. So yeah, maybe I am a good guy, but I just want everyone to be happy and comfortable in their own homes on their own land. BTW, I still get those calls for help, but not at 3am, at least not recently. But thankfully the days seem to have ended when a woman I don't know will come up to me in a store or someplace and babel on about how I saved her son's [husband, daughter, neighor's, etc.] life. I always hated that, it was very embarrassing and most often an exaggeration of what happened, assuming I knew the call she was talking about. It was just my job, but now it is no longer. I like that they don't remember or recognize me anymore. But I still like to be a good neighbor, it is so much easier that way.

 smiley_clapping

I have 15 years as a volunteer. I agree with everything you said. Thanks for doing the job. It sure is getting hard to find ppl nowadays. 

I just got a letter from my department asking me to resign because I did not make enough points this year. It is hard enough to keep members without crap like that flying around.

Offline Southside

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Re: WHat do YOU think I should think?
« Reply #25 on: November 27, 2018, 12:16:36 PM »
I just got a letter from my department asking me to resign because I did not make enough points this year


Not having been on a fire department would you mind explaining that?  On the surface that sure does sound like a poor way to operate. 
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Offline Crusarius

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Re: WHat do YOU think I should think?
« Reply #26 on: November 27, 2018, 12:27:48 PM »
you get 1 point for showing up to calls and drills. you need a certain number of points to be considered an active member and have the ability to vote for line officers during elections. 

The letter stated you did not make your points therefore you cannot respond to calls and we request that you resign until you can dedicate more time to the department.

It is a very poor way to operate. I have 15 years in just had my second kid. several other ppl I spoke with who received the letter have more years and have just recently lost both parents to cancer... lots of other things went bad this year.

The letter should have asked how the department can help not telling you to resign.

Offline thecfarm

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Re: WHat do YOU think I should think?
« Reply #27 on: November 27, 2018, 01:21:10 PM »
greenhorn,you can be my neighbor. 
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Online moosehunter

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Re: WHat do YOU think I should think?
« Reply #28 on: November 27, 2018, 03:57:23 PM »
Crusarius, your resignation letter should state exactly what you just wrote here. My guess is that this an ill conceived attempt at getting people to show up more often.
mh
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Offline Crusarius

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Re: WHat do YOU think I should think?
« Reply #29 on: November 27, 2018, 04:13:17 PM »
Moose, you are correct. very poor attempt that is backfiring. I did start showing up more but not because of the letter. My life has finally calmed down enough I can once again begin to participate.

However, I am actually breaking the rules showing up now since the letter told me I could not respond anymore.

Ahhhh what to do? what to do?

I sense circular redundancy error! :)

Offline Southside

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Re: WHat do YOU think I should think?
« Reply #30 on: November 27, 2018, 07:34:11 PM »
Sounds like a change in management would be a good thing.  
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Offline mike_belben

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Re: WHat do YOU think I should think?
« Reply #31 on: November 27, 2018, 10:30:08 PM »
To err is human.  To blame it on others shows management potential. 
Revelation 3:20

Offline Crusarius

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Re: WHat do YOU think I should think?
« Reply #32 on: November 28, 2018, 07:31:57 AM »
To err is human.  To blame it on others shows management potential.
haha, so true :)

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Re: WHat do YOU think I should think?
« Reply #33 on: November 28, 2018, 10:05:52 AM »
    Reminds me of the 6 phases of a major project in my previous life:

1. Enthusiasm
2. Disillusionment
3. Panic
4. Search for the guilty
5. Punishment of the innocent
6. Rewards for the non-participants
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Offline SawyerTed

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Re: WHat do YOU think I should think?
« Reply #34 on: November 28, 2018, 04:26:17 PM »
 :D :D :D :D I had a supervisor who went to the same management training.  :D :D :D :D  I was always having to fix the stuff others fouled up.  
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Offline Old Greenhorn

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Re: WHat do YOU think I should think?
« Reply #35 on: January 16, 2019, 09:01:29 PM »
I had forgotten I let this sit for so long (not this thread, but the actual issue).
OK, so this is an old thread, but I thought I would follow on with more info I just got the other night. The son stopped by on other business and I asked him if he talked to his Dad about the sign. He said "Yeah I did, but don't worry about it. He saw a guy tearing down that road across his lawn on a 4 wheeler and assumed it was you. I knew if wasn't you, but he is getting weird these days. Don't worry about it, but maybe you might want to stop in and talk to him. I am not even sure it really happened."
 Well, I don't have a 4 wheeler, just a UTV that plugs along and has never been on his lawn. If he is correct, then we BOTH have a problem with somebody that doesn't belong there. The landowner I take care of does have a big powerful 4 wheeler, but he too would never venture off his property into 'the unknown'.  He also has no interest in exploring (hell, I have trouble getting him to come on down to look at something I have a question about in HIS woods.)
 So if I can make enough time this weekend before the big snow, I will drag a tree across the road and set my trail cam in that spot. Then when my chores are done I will make a visit and tell him what I have done and why. The only thing I can figure is that we have somebody (usually a new resident) on the road who thinks 'the woods' are open to everyone for fun (we had that about 15 years ago with one guy who was reckless and drove us all nuts until he flew up from the low side of the road one night and landed on the hood of a passing car, maybe the cycle came around again). I don't want folks running around on the land unless I know who they are, why they are there, that they have the landowners permission or mine, and they know our rules.
 We live in an area where we have a lot of 'weekenders' that is, folks who live in city areas like Long Island, Brooklyn, Manhattan (NYC), New Jersey, and have second homes here where they come up every weekend to relax and play. They are at a disadvantage because they never really get the feeling of the community and how folks get along. It sometimes can cause conflicts or animosity. The vast majority are great folks and get along fine. (Some are even forum members!) They are a big contributor to our economy. But in every group there are always a few.... If I find him/her, we will have an exercise in communication skills.
 I'll let you know if anything ever really comes of this, but I doubt it will go any further. If there was 'a guy' it was probably a one time deal when he realized he he no real path once he left our property. That trail won't work for him in the future. More likely (in my mind) it never really happened, But I will do what I can to bring him peace of mind, because its easy to do.
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