The Forestry Forum is sponsored in part by:

iDRY Vacuum Kilns


Forestry Forum
Sponsored by:


TimberKing Sawmills



Toll Free 1-800-582-0470

LogRite Tools



Norwood Industries Inc.


Sawmill & Woodlot Magazine



Your source for Portable Sawmills, Edgers, Resaws, Sharpeners, Setters, Bandsaw Blades and Sawmill Parts

EZ Boardwalk Sawmills. More Saw For Less Money!

STIHLDealers.com sponsored by Northeast STIHL


Woodland Sawmills

Peterson Swingmills

 KASCO SharpTech WoodMaxx Blades

Turbosawmill

Sawmill Exchange

Michigan Firewood, your BRUTE FORCE Authorized Dealer

FARMA


Council Tool

Baker Products

ECHO-Bearcat

iDRY Wood Lumber Vacuum Drying for everyon




Author Topic: Sawing for profit  (Read 2284 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline welderskelter

  • Full Member
  • **
  • Posts: 70
  • Age: 68
  • Location: Waubun Minn.
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Sawing for profit
« on: December 05, 2018, 07:28:37 PM »
My boss wants some white oak logs sawed up into 2 and a half in. planks. What would be a reasonable amount to charge him. He is bringing out the logs. I just got my mill running. I have been building it for about 6 years now. So far I have only dulled 2 blades so havent sawed much. ???  Just need to know what you guys would charge. Thanks Harold

Offline Outlaw

  • member
  • *
  • Posts: 21
  • Age: 40
  • Location: Northern Minnesota
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm new!
    • Share Post
Re: Sawing for profit
« Reply #1 on: December 05, 2018, 07:38:54 PM »
That depends if he is a good boss ;D

Offline Southside logger

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 3229
  • Age: 46
  • Location: Wilsons (Dinwiddie County), VA
  • Gender: Male
  • Have a plan to saw every log you meet.
    • Share Post
Re: Sawing for profit
« Reply #2 on: December 05, 2018, 07:40:40 PM »
Logs brought to me I charge $0.35 / BF International for normal sawing.  All QS or other specialty is more.   
Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT Super 70 and LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
Enough cows to ensure there is no spare time.

Online WV Sawmiller

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 5229
  • Age: 65
  • Location: Hinton WV
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
    • Green's Sawmill Services
Re: Sawing for profit
« Reply #3 on: December 05, 2018, 08:02:29 PM »
   I would not saw them for him (or anyone) until I was confident in my equipment and skill level. If you are uncertain tell him that and you might suggest you would saw them for the training experience.

    My rate in this part of the country, which might be less than yours, would be $.30/bf for finished product or $60/hr for specialty sawing.

    Good luck.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2009 4wd Dodge PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Sthil 440 & 441, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once"

Offline welderskelter

  • Full Member
  • **
  • Posts: 70
  • Age: 68
  • Location: Waubun Minn.
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: Sawing for profit
« Reply #4 on: December 05, 2018, 08:18:08 PM »
Thanks. I am confident in my sawing as I have built and ran a circle saw years ago. And I do have 13 blades on hand. I think I done a pretty good job on the bandmill as it is working pretty good. Another thing is he is just putting them on a dozer trailer. Dont have to be too perfect. Harold

Offline SawyerTed

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 645
  • Age: 56
  • Location: Germanton, NC
  • Gender: Male
  • Summey Lumber Services, LLC
    • Share Post
Re: Sawing for profit
« Reply #5 on: December 05, 2018, 08:23:32 PM »
If you are confident in your sawing, then you will find that $0.30 to $0.40 per board foot is typical.  If you have to hire an off bearer then that would be in addition. My rate is $0.36 per board foot or $72 per hour for straight sawing.  I'm to the point now that I can make more on a per board foot rate if the off bearer(s) can keep up.
Woodmizer LT35HD25, Kubota MX5100, IH McCormick Farmall 140, Granberg Alaskan Chainsaw Mill, Husqvarna 372XP, Husqvarna 455 Rancher

Offline Tom the Sawyer

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 858
  • Age: 67
  • Location: Eudora, KS
  • Gender: Male
  • Converting your logs to lumber at my home or yours
    • Share Post
    • Tom the Sawyer Portable Sawmill Service
Re: Sawing for profit
« Reply #6 on: December 05, 2018, 08:29:31 PM »
At my mill, 10/4 is .35 p/bf.
07 Timberking B-20, Custom-made log arch, 20' trailer w/ log loading arch, F350 SD flatbed dump.  Princeton piggy-back forklift.  Bobcat S250, Stihl 025C 16" and a Husqvarna 372XP 24/30" bars, Grizzly 20" planer, Nyle L200M DH kiln.
If you call and my wife says "He's sawin logs", I ain't snorin'.

Online WV Sawmiller

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 5229
  • Age: 65
  • Location: Hinton WV
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
    • Green's Sawmill Services
Re: Sawing for profit
« Reply #7 on: December 06, 2018, 08:18:43 AM »
Thanks. I am confident in my sawing as I have built and ran a circle saw years ago. And I do have 13 blades on hand. I think I done a pretty good job on the bandmill as it is working pretty good. Another thing is he is just putting them on a dozer trailer. Dont have to be too perfect. Harold
   Thx for the clarification. I was not trying to offend or insult your sawing ability. I just read your initial post as if you were just starting out. Good luck.

Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2009 4wd Dodge PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Sthil 440 & 441, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once"

Offline petefrom bearswamp

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 3354
  • Age: 81
  • Location: Finger Lakes region of NY
  • Gender: Male
  • made 70-11 and still feelin pretty darned good!
    • Share Post
Re: Sawing for profit
« Reply #8 on: December 06, 2018, 08:51:50 AM »
With my old age and inefficiency, sawing for profit is an oxymoron.
I only charge .25 per bd ft if the customer is the tail man and $50/hr when sawing hourly
LT40SHDD51
Kubota 8540 tractor, Farmi winch
Kubota 900 RTV
Polaris 550 Sportsman ATV
1 Husky 1 gas Echo 1 cordless Echo
241 acres of woodland

Offline JamieK

  • member
  • *
  • Posts: 7
  • Age: 55
  • Location: Alliance OH
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm new!
    • Share Post
Re: Sawing for profit
« Reply #9 on: December 06, 2018, 10:56:51 AM »
I have a Wood-Mizer LT28 manual mill. Since it is manual I don't charge an hourly rate. I have a minimum charge of $45 for small logs and charge $.37 per BDTF no matter what size boards I'm milling. I've calculated an average day and I have been milling at a $65 per hour pace. And also use the Doyle scale to calculate the BDFT in the log
Wood-Mizer LT28, BMS250, BMT100

Offline mike_belben

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 3755
  • Location: Middle TN
  • Pulp Friction
    • Share Post
Re: Sawing for profit
« Reply #10 on: December 06, 2018, 11:10:29 AM »
We are gonna need to see some pics of the home made circle mill.  

;)
Revelation 3:20

Online WV Sawmiller

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 5229
  • Age: 65
  • Location: Hinton WV
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
    • Green's Sawmill Services
Re: Sawing for profit
« Reply #11 on: December 06, 2018, 11:35:17 AM »
I have a Wood-Mizer LT28 manual mill. Since it is manual I don't charge an hourly rate. I have a minimum charge of $45 for small logs and charge $.37 per BDTF no matter what size boards I'm milling. I've calculated an average day and I have been milling at a $65 per hour pace. And also use the Doyle scale to calculate the BDFT in the log
J,

   Have you ever compared the actual finished lumber bf tally to your initial log scale tally? I'd be interested in how that compared.

   I know sawyers who bill by the bf estimates by scaling the logs and I gather that is advantageous to them as they get paid for poor quality logs that don't yield much as well as good quality logs. I have always billed on the actual finished lumber tally which I feel is more fair to the customer. There is likely a happy medium in there somewhere.

Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2009 4wd Dodge PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Sthil 440 & 441, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once"

Offline Skipper11A

  • Full Member x2
  • ***
  • Posts: 152
  • Age: 53
  • Location: North Texas
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: Sawing for profit
« Reply #12 on: December 06, 2018, 11:51:25 AM »
Your band saw blades are a lot more flexible than a circle saw blade,  and white oak can be very difficult to cut with them.  This is where I would use  4° blades and be ready to put on a fresh blade as soon as you feel the old one begin to lose its sharpness.  You may also want to use a diesel lube to clean the pitch buildup off the blades. 

You will probably end up with some wavy cuts, just make sure that your boss knows this in advance so that he isn't expecting every board to be perfect. 

Offline Southside logger

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 3229
  • Age: 46
  • Location: Wilsons (Dinwiddie County), VA
  • Gender: Male
  • Have a plan to saw every log you meet.
    • Share Post
Re: Sawing for profit
« Reply #13 on: December 06, 2018, 03:13:50 PM »
 I know sawyers who bill by the bf estimates by scaling the logs and I gather that is advantageous to them as they get paid for poor quality logs that don't yield much as well as good quality logs. I have always billed on the actual finished lumber tally which I feel is more fair to the customer. There is likely a happy medium in there somewhere.
 

WV - I make an honest effort to account for sweep, rot, defects when scaling logs I custom saw.  Basically use the same standard I would be held to as if I were selling those logs to a mill, so not just what the stick reads.  I think that makes for a fair medium.  
Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT Super 70 and LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
Enough cows to ensure there is no spare time.

Offline OffGrid973

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 427
  • Age: 41
  • Location: New Jersey
  • Gender: Male
  • Off Grid
    • Share Post
Re: Sawing for profit
« Reply #14 on: December 06, 2018, 04:41:16 PM »
Two logs you may want to barter for some BBQ and a bar tab on a “good” night out.

You will come across some hurdles (possible metal if no detector) so mention they will be “around” 2.5 inches and that you like your steaks rare and plentiful.
Your Fellow Woodworker,
- Off Grid

Online WV Sawmiller

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 5229
  • Age: 65
  • Location: Hinton WV
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
    • Green's Sawmill Services
Re: Sawing for profit
« Reply #15 on: December 06, 2018, 06:24:00 PM »
Mike,

  I have repeatedly said in various threads "All forms of charging are fair as long as both parties agree and understand up front." I stick by that. I still think the most creative was where the sawyer listed the limitations of his mill and the logs he could accept. He charged a set fee for every log. The sawyer knew exactly how much he was going to make, the customer knew exactly how much he was going to pay.

  I just assume most of my work will average out - the crappy logs with low yield where I waste more time than I prefer and the good straight logs where the lumber just flies off the mill. If I see up front the logs are short, small diameter or otherwise low yield I just advise the customer up front I will be sawing by the hour and show him why. We agree before the blade hits the first log.

  I was/am just wondering how the comparison worked out using the Doyle scale vs actual finished lumber yield.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2009 4wd Dodge PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Sthil 440 & 441, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once"

Offline WDH

  • Forester
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 27760
  • Age: 64
  • Location: Perry, GA
  • Gender: Male
  • April 1998 - August 2008
    • Share Post
    • hamsleyhardwood.com
Re: Sawing for profit
« Reply #16 on: December 06, 2018, 09:47:39 PM »
I have measured Doyle versus actual yield on maybe a hundred logs.  On average size logs, say 12" to 18" on small end, I average about 25% more actual yield than Doyle.  On small logs, that is more like 35% more.  On large logs, the actual is closer to Doyle and mostly a bit more, maybe about 10% more.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5640SU, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Offline Southside logger

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 3229
  • Age: 46
  • Location: Wilsons (Dinwiddie County), VA
  • Gender: Male
  • Have a plan to saw every log you meet.
    • Share Post
Re: Sawing for profit
« Reply #17 on: December 06, 2018, 10:00:58 PM »
Every now and then I will compare scale to actual on International and generally the larger the logs the more I beat the scale it seems.  
Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT Super 70 and LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
Enough cows to ensure there is no spare time.

Offline SawyerTed

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 645
  • Age: 56
  • Location: Germanton, NC
  • Gender: Male
  • Summey Lumber Services, LLC
    • Share Post
Re: Sawing for profit
« Reply #18 on: December 06, 2018, 10:25:35 PM »
I usually equal or beat the International Scale.  The logs have to be really poor not to equal the scale.  The bandsaw makes some difference as does evaluating each log as it is cut versus production sawing where output weighs heavily.  Southside is right, the larger logs beat the scale proportionally higher as long as they are relatively free of defects.  
Woodmizer LT35HD25, Kubota MX5100, IH McCormick Farmall 140, Granberg Alaskan Chainsaw Mill, Husqvarna 372XP, Husqvarna 455 Rancher

Offline Brad_bb

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 3188
  • Age: 47
  • Location: Joliet, IL
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
    • My timberframe blog
Re: Sawing for profit
« Reply #19 on: December 06, 2018, 10:46:58 PM »
For the customer, I think it's really got to boil down to cost/BF.  This presents a problem for Sawyers sometimes because milling smaller logs is less efficient/productive than larger logs.  This assumes we are talking about fairly clean straight logs and not branch knots and crotches sticking out all over the place.  Those would be specialty and require an extra charge.

On the other hand, what matters to the sawyer, I think, would be his time.  If he got a straight cost per hour, well that's a little less pressure as it doesn't really matter what kind of logs he's sawing (sort of- absent the customers expectations).  But he does have to hustle to produce to try to meet the customers output expectations.  

Last year I employed the help of another Sawyer to cut 2x8 (10/4 x8 to be exact).  He charged $100/hr.  I was hoping his productivity with his LT50 hydraulic and off bearer, would keep production to a level that was reasonable.  What's reasonable?  Well it ended up coming out to .83/BF.  Not sure how to take that as it seems everyone on here is cheaper.  

In the end, remember that you can always lower what you charge at the end, but you cannot increase it!
Anything someone can design, I can sure figure out how to fix!
If I say it\\\\\\\'s going to take so long, multiply that by at least 3!


Share via delicious Share via digg Share via facebook Share via linkedin Share via pinterest Share via reddit Share via stumble Share via tumblr Share via twitter

xx
Barrel sawing - for fun or profit.

Started by Bibbyman on Sawmills and Milling

13 Replies
3908 Views
Last post May 01, 2011, 08:13:46 PM
by terrifictimbersllc
xx
Looking for lumber in Lancaster PA area for Non profit (meaning not much profit?

Started by Kelvin on Sawmills and Milling

1 Replies
1201 Views
Last post August 08, 2008, 07:55:21 PM
by Ron Wenrich
xx
profit

Started by logman 219 on Sawmills and Milling

7 Replies
1219 Views
Last post February 24, 2016, 01:52:17 PM
by Downstream
xx
debt vs profit

Started by first shirt on Sawmills and Milling

12 Replies
3082 Views
Last post June 11, 2009, 08:47:41 AM
by Joe Lallande
 


Powered by EzPortal