The Forestry Forum is sponsored in part by:

iDRY Vacuum Kilns


Forestry Forum
Sponsored by:


TimberKing Sawmills



Toll Free 1-800-582-0470

LogRite Tools



Norwood Industries Inc.


Sawmill & Woodlot Magazine



Your source for Portable Sawmills, Edgers, Resaws, Sharpeners, Setters, Bandsaw Blades and Sawmill Parts

EZ Boardwalk Sawmills. More Saw For Less Money!

STIHLDealers.com sponsored by Northeast STIHL


Woodland Sawmills

Peterson Swingmills

 KASCO SharpTech WoodMaxx Blades

Turbosawmill

Sawmill Exchange

Michigan Firewood, your BRUTE FORCE Authorized Dealer

FARMA


Council Tool

Baker Products

ECHO-Bearcat

iDRY Wood Lumber Vacuum Drying for everyon

Baltic Abrasives Technologies




Author Topic: Blade guide diameter?  (Read 886 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline smartecosse

  • member
  • *
  • Posts: 28
  • I'm new!
    • Share Post
Blade guide diameter?
« on: December 06, 2018, 11:47:30 AM »
I'm going to have a go milling my own blade guides shortly.

I've been trying to work out what the best size would be for these...

The depth/width is obviously dependent on the blade width and as I'll be using 1 1/4" blades I'll make the guide the appropriate width.

But what about the diameter......slightly larger will allow the bearings to run slower but how to work out the optimal size.

What do you think? Two and half inches, three?

And how about the flange at the rear is there a proper proportion that it should be sized at or not?

Thanks

Offline Skipper11A

  • Full Member x2
  • ***
  • Posts: 154
  • Age: 53
  • Location: North Texas
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: Blade guide diameter?
« Reply #1 on: December 06, 2018, 12:11:13 PM »
My EZ Boardwalk 40 has 3" roller guides with greasable bearings.  Even with guides this large, the guys at EZ are adamant that these must be greased every day with corn head grease (grade 0 grease so it's almost an oil viscosity).  I haven't had any problems with them, and yes, I grease them every day.

I doubt the flange size is critical, it just needs to stop the blade from sliding backwards.  I'm pretty sure that the guides are heat treated to harden them and that  is way beyond my skill level so I would buy my roller guides from a vendor.

Offline smartecosse

  • member
  • *
  • Posts: 28
  • I'm new!
    • Share Post
Re: Blade guide diameter?
« Reply #2 on: December 06, 2018, 12:56:40 PM »
My EZ Boardwalk 40 has 3" roller guides with greasable bearings.  Even with guides this large, the guys at EZ are adamant that these must be greased every day with corn head grease (grade 0 grease so it's almost an oil viscosity).  I haven't had any problems with them, and yes, I grease them every day.

I doubt the flange size is critical, it just needs to stop the blade from sliding backwards.  I'm pretty sure that the guides are heat treated to harden them and that  is way beyond my skill level so I would buy my roller guides from a vendor.
Thanks for the info, I'd planned on using zerk bolts so greasing wouldn't be an issue.

I hadn't thought about the hardness of the aluminium.............I'd planned on using 6082-T6 aluminium for the guides. Guess I'll just need to keep an eye on how they wear. 


Offline Skipper11A

  • Full Member x2
  • ***
  • Posts: 154
  • Age: 53
  • Location: North Texas
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: Blade guide diameter?
« Reply #3 on: December 06, 2018, 02:34:49 PM »
They are hardened steel. If you use an aluminum alloy keep a close eye on how they wear and let us all know how they work out.

Offline waynorthmountie

  • member
  • *
  • Posts: 39
  • Age: 40
  • Location: Inuvik, NTW, Canada
  • Gender: Male
  • new guy that likes to tinker.
    • Share Post
Re: Blade guide diameter?
« Reply #4 on: December 06, 2018, 05:57:08 PM »
Ckeck cooks sawmill YouTube page. They did a video about this. And where the blade should run on the guide 

Offline Larry

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 5842
  • Age: 70
  • Location: NW Arkansas
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: Blade guide diameter?
« Reply #5 on: December 06, 2018, 08:19:38 PM »
I hadn't thought about the hardness of the aluminium.............I'd planned on using 6082-T6 aluminium for the guides. Guess I'll just need to keep an eye on how they wear.
I would guess you will get one full day before they are wore out.  They wear a lot on the teeth side and hardly any close to the flange.  The uneven wear is what causes problems.

Even hardened, and they are hard hard, wear faster than one would think.

Same your money and time by doing it right.
Larry, making useful and beautiful things out of the most environmental friendly material on the planet.

We need to insure our customers understand the importance of our craft.

Offline Magicman

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 37139
  • Age: 75
  • Location: Brookhaven, MS
  • Gender: Male
  • A "Traveling Man"
    • Share Post
    • Knothole Sawmill
Re: Blade guide diameter?
« Reply #6 on: December 06, 2018, 10:20:01 PM »
Plus the necessary "horizontal tilt" on the blade guides introduces an amount of scrubbing that will quickly wear anything but the hardest steel.

Save your time and energy and buy your blade guides.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Offline smartecosse

  • member
  • *
  • Posts: 28
  • I'm new!
    • Share Post
Re: Blade guide diameter?
« Reply #7 on: December 07, 2018, 02:02:26 AM »
Thanks for all the replies.....

I'd thought that the blade guides would be hardened aluminium rather than steel.....perhaps anodised so that they not the blades took the wear.

From the answers it seems that's not the case and they are steel.

Maybe I'll need to rethink the idea of making my own then. Was keen to save the money as it's meant to be a budget build......


Offline waynorthmountie

  • member
  • *
  • Posts: 39
  • Age: 40
  • Location: Inuvik, NTW, Canada
  • Gender: Male
  • new guy that likes to tinker.
    • Share Post
Re: Blade guide diameter?
« Reply #8 on: December 07, 2018, 05:12:51 AM »
I have been researching a build for over a year. There are some things that are not worth saving money on from my perspective; bearings, shafts and blade guides (wear points). Having worked on heavy machinery in my past careers these cheap items in these areas lead to issues down the road. You are better to over build on stress points and save money on metal purchases (find scrap) motors (Used) and repurposing other things. There is a tonn of great ideas on here and on Youtube. I am not convinced on a Tire for a pulley yet but  I found one build on Youtube that used scrap Motorcycle tires which are thinner and have a rigid side wall. I think this would be a better option than a standard tire used on some builds.

It comes down to how often you want to fix things. I would rather spend an extra $500 on a build to rarely have to replace items (as a hobby user) then have to replace something on it after a day of hard use because I wanted to save money. The manufatures (cooks, Woodmizer) all seem to use the same style of guide cause it works and they have way more money to research stuff than I do.


Offline bandmiller2

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 8649
  • Location: Franklin Ma.
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: Blade guide diameter?
« Reply #9 on: December 07, 2018, 05:58:27 AM »
When I first built my bandmill I used small sealed ball bearings, two sandwiched riding on the band and one horizontal behind, They worked well but need replacing often. I later replaced them with Cooks flanged guides. If I recall it was an easy conversion used my same guide brackets just replaced the roller. Frank C. 
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

Online ladylake

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 4896
  • Age: 66
  • Location: grey eagle mn
  • Gender: Male
  • I need to edit my profile!
    • Share Post
Re: Blade guide diameter?
« Reply #10 on: December 07, 2018, 06:51:30 AM »

 Cooks 3" guides run a long time.  Steve
Timberking B20 12000 hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Dino setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

Offline smartecosse

  • member
  • *
  • Posts: 28
  • I'm new!
    • Share Post
Re: Blade guide diameter?
« Reply #11 on: December 07, 2018, 12:40:02 PM »
I have been researching a build for over a year. There are some things that are not worth saving money on from my perspective; bearings, shafts and blade guides (wear points). Having worked on heavy machinery in my past careers these cheap items in these areas lead to issues down the road. You are better to over build on stress points and save money on metal purchases (find scrap) motors (Used) and repurposing other things. There is a tonn of great ideas on here and on Youtube. I am not convinced on a Tire for a pulley yet but  I found one build on Youtube that used scrap Motorcycle tires which are thinner and have a rigid side wall. I think this would be a better option than a standard tire used on some builds.

It comes down to how often you want to fix things. I would rather spend an extra $500 on a build to rarely have to replace items (as a hobby user) then have to replace something on it after a day of hard use because I wanted to save money. The manufatures (cooks, Woodmizer) all seem to use the same style of guide cause it works and they have way more money to research stuff than I do.
The only things bought new have been the shafts, bearings and bandwheels, the rest is scrap, 2nd hand or small off cuts etc that I had anyway.

Only additional expenditure other than the guides :) will be the track. If I buy the two new blade guides excluding the cost of the motor they will account for 33% of the build cost or 18% including the motor. I spent a fair bit on the motor as the option of a 20hp Honda came up so I went for that rather than a chinese clone of the smaller ones. 

I should be able to get material for making the guides myself either in steel or aluminium for free, or for a small donation so maybe worth having a go anyway, even if they do wear out quicker than proper commercial grade ones will.

At least they will get me started and if I make them so that the mounting bolt is the same size as the cooks ones then in the future I could always invest in a pair and it would be a simple case to swop them over.

Does anyone know what actual specification of the steel is that is used for guides?

Thanks



Offline Larry

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 5842
  • Age: 70
  • Location: NW Arkansas
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: Blade guide diameter?
« Reply #12 on: December 07, 2018, 01:23:28 PM »
I suspect they use some kind of plain jane cheap steel.  Once the guide is turned they case harden.  After that they grind to make it perfect.

One could do the same at home and use a commercial compound such as Cherry Red to get a case.  I think even better would be a packing box with charred leather to get a deep case.  Tool steel would be far too expensive, but if you can get it cheap go for it.

Many guides have been made using bearings.  Look at a shop bandsaw for ideas.
Larry, making useful and beautiful things out of the most environmental friendly material on the planet.

We need to insure our customers understand the importance of our craft.

Offline charles mann

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 297
  • Location: Ft. Hood, Tx
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: Blade guide diameter?
« Reply #13 on: December 07, 2018, 01:40:22 PM »
Speedy Metals - Alloy Round Bar

Mega Roller Guides - Cook's Saw Store

not sure what cooks uses for their rollers, but i also posted a link above for speedy metals, a site the local machine shop put on to for finding the type and size metals i will need for my build. he recommended 4140 bc it can be machined and hardened, plus more corrosion resistant than regular ole' carbon steel and better than stainless for my application. i will have them machine a 2 1/4" 4140 rod, down to 2" for the tapered roller bearings, 26" drive wheel and 16" 3 groove pulley sheave for a drive shaft and a 5 1/4" OD x 3 1/4" ID DOM steel tubing for the drive shaft/axle housing and 2 2" ID 362A roller bearings. I will either drill and tap for grease zerk for the occasional greasing w/o having to tear down the drive side, or put an oil seal in it, similar to an oil bath axle spindle/hub and run an oil bath system with a fill/breather and drain port. 
I figure an oil bath works for OTR tcks, hauling 80,000#+ loads, it should work for my hobby use, but I'm thinking high temp grease will work as well too. 
Temple, Tx
Fire Fighting and Heavy Lift Helicopter Mech
Helicopter and Fixed Wing Pilot

Online proptorudder

  • member
  • *
  • Posts: 10
  • I'm new!
    • Share Post
Re: Blade guide diameter?
« Reply #14 on: December 07, 2018, 09:28:26 PM »
NJ

Offline waynorthmountie

  • member
  • *
  • Posts: 39
  • Age: 40
  • Location: Inuvik, NTW, Canada
  • Gender: Male
  • new guy that likes to tinker.
    • Share Post
Re: Blade guide diameter?
« Reply #15 on: December 07, 2018, 09:54:11 PM »
@smartecosse I was speaking of the actual roller not the complete system which I agree is very expensive. I just feel the $59 dollars a piece for the rollers themselves is reasonable.



Share via delicious Share via digg Share via facebook Share via linkedin Share via pinterest Share via reddit Share via stumble Share via tumblr Share via twitter

xx
Guide Roller Diameter

Started by Piddler on Sawmills and Milling

1 Replies
293 Views
Last post February 08, 2018, 05:18:25 PM
by ladylake
xx
my acme band saw blade (captive needle bearing )roller blade guide

Started by buildthisfixthat on Sawmills and Milling

7 Replies
2321 Views
Last post January 16, 2012, 09:34:15 AM
by 5quarter
xx
24 inch diameter saw blade

Started by sawthemlogs on Wanted

1 Replies
2380 Views
Last post December 23, 2011, 06:57:14 PM
by scsmith42
xx
Blade tracking/tighting and shaft diameter

Started by mikalnau on Sawmills and Milling

6 Replies
435 Views
Last post August 29, 2017, 06:14:36 PM
by Kbeitz
 


Powered by EzPortal