Blade guide diameter?

[smartecosse]

I'm going to have a go milling my own blade guides shortly.

I've been trying to work out what the best size would be for these...

The depth/width is obviously dependent on the blade width and as I'll be using 1 1/4" blades I'll make the guide the appropriate width.

But what about the diameter......slightly larger will allow the bearings to run slower but how to work out the optimal size.

What do you think? Two and half inches, three?

And how about the flange at the rear is there a proper proportion that it should be sized at or not?

Thanks

[Skipper11A]

My EZ Boardwalk 40 has 3" roller guides with greasable bearings.  Even with guides this large, the guys at EZ are adamant that these must be greased every day with corn head grease (grade 0 grease so it's almost an oil viscosity).  I haven't had any problems with them, and yes, I grease them every day.

I doubt the flange size is critical, it just needs to stop the blade from sliding backwards.  I'm pretty sure that the guides are heat treated to harden them and that  is way beyond my skill level so I would buy my roller guides from a vendor.

[smartecosse]

My EZ Boardwalk 40 has 3" roller guides with greasable bearings.  Even with guides this large, the guys at EZ are adamant that these must be greased every day with corn head grease (grade 0 grease so it's almost an oil viscosity).  I haven't had any problems with them, and yes, I grease them every day.

I doubt the flange size is critical, it just needs to stop the blade from sliding backwards.  I'm pretty sure that the guides are heat treated to harden them and that  is way beyond my skill level so I would buy my roller guides from a vendor.

Thanks for the info, I'd planned on using zerk bolts so greasing wouldn't be an issue.

I hadn't thought about the hardness of the aluminium.............I'd planned on using 6082-T6 aluminium for the guides. Guess I'll just need to keep an eye on how they wear. 

[Skipper11A]

They are hardened steel. If you use an aluminum alloy keep a close eye on how they wear and let us all know how they work out.

[waynorthmountie]

Ckeck cooks sawmill YouTube page. They did a video about this. And where the blade should run on the guide 

[Larry]

I hadn't thought about the hardness of the aluminium.............I'd planned on using 6082-T6 aluminium for the guides. Guess I'll just need to keep an eye on how they wear.

I would guess you will get one full day before they are wore out.  They wear a lot on the teeth side and hardly any close to the flange.  The uneven wear is what causes problems.

Even hardened, and they are hard hard, wear faster than one would think.

Same your money and time by doing it right.

[Magicman]

Plus the necessary "horizontal tilt" on the blade guides introduces an amount of scrubbing that will quickly wear anything but the hardest steel.

Save your time and energy and buy your blade guides.

[smartecosse]

Thanks for all the replies.....

I'd thought that the blade guides would be hardened aluminium rather than steel.....perhaps anodised so that they not the blades took the wear.

From the answers it seems that's not the case and they are steel.

Maybe I'll need to rethink the idea of making my own then. Was keen to save the money as it's meant to be a budget build......

[waynorthmountie]

I have been researching a build for over a year. There are some things that are not worth saving money on from my perspective; bearings, shafts and blade guides (wear points). Having worked on heavy machinery in my past careers these cheap items in these areas lead to issues down the road. You are better to over build on stress points and save money on metal purchases (find scrap) motors (Used) and repurposing other things. There is a tonn of great ideas on here and on Youtube. I am not convinced on a Tire for a pulley yet but  I found one build on Youtube that used scrap Motorcycle tires which are thinner and have a rigid side wall. I think this would be a better option than a standard tire used on some builds.

It comes down to how often you want to fix things. I would rather spend an extra $500 on a build to rarely have to replace items (as a hobby user) then have to replace something on it after a day of hard use because I wanted to save money. The manufatures (cooks, Woodmizer) all seem to use the same style of guide cause it works and they have way more money to research stuff than I do.

[bandmiller2]

When I first built my bandmill I used small sealed ball bearings, two sandwiched riding on the band and one horizontal behind, They worked well but need replacing often. I later replaced them with Cooks flanged guides. If I recall it was an easy conversion used my same guide brackets just replaced the roller. Frank C. 

[ladylake]

 Cooks 3" guides run a long time.  Steve

[smartecosse]

I have been researching a build for over a year. There are some things that are not worth saving money on from my perspective; bearings, shafts and blade guides (wear points). Having worked on heavy machinery in my past careers these cheap items in these areas lead to issues down the road. You are better to over build on stress points and save money on metal purchases (find scrap) motors (Used) and repurposing other things. There is a tonn of great ideas on here and on Youtube. I am not convinced on a Tire for a pulley yet but  I found one build on Youtube that used scrap Motorcycle tires which are thinner and have a rigid side wall. I think this would be a better option than a standard tire used on some builds.

It comes down to how often you want to fix things. I would rather spend an extra $500 on a build to rarely have to replace items (as a hobby user) then have to replace something on it after a day of hard use because I wanted to save money. The manufatures (cooks, Woodmizer) all seem to use the same style of guide cause it works and they have way more money to research stuff than I do.

The only things bought new have been the shafts, bearings and bandwheels, the rest is scrap, 2nd hand or small off cuts etc that I had anyway.

Only additional expenditure other than the guides  will be the track. If I buy the two new blade guides excluding the cost of the motor they will account for 33% of the build cost or 18% including the motor. I spent a fair bit on the motor as the option of a 20hp Honda came up so I went for that rather than a chinese clone of the smaller ones. 

I should be able to get material for making the guides myself either in steel or aluminium for free, or for a small donation so maybe worth having a go anyway, even if they do wear out quicker than proper commercial grade ones will.

At least they will get me started and if I make them so that the mounting bolt is the same size as the cooks ones then in the future I could always invest in a pair and it would be a simple case to swop them over.

Does anyone know what actual specification of the steel is that is used for guides?

Thanks

[Larry]

I suspect they use some kind of plain jane cheap steel.  Once the guide is turned they case harden.  After that they grind to make it perfect.

One could do the same at home and use a commercial compound such as Cherry Red to get a case.  I think even better would be a packing box with charred leather to get a deep case.  Tool steel would be far too expensive, but if you can get it cheap go for it.

Many guides have been made using bearings.  Look at a shop bandsaw for ideas.

[charles mann]

Speedy Metals - Alloy Round Bar

Mega Roller Guides - Cook's Saw Store

not sure what cooks uses for their rollers, but i also posted a link above for speedy metals, a site the local machine shop put on to for finding the type and size metals i will need for my build. he recommended 4140 bc it can be machined and hardened, plus more corrosion resistant than regular ole' carbon steel and better than stainless for my application. i will have them machine a 2 1/4" 4140 rod, down to 2" for the tapered roller bearings, 26" drive wheel and 16" 3 groove pulley sheave for a drive shaft and a 5 1/4" OD x 3 1/4" ID DOM steel tubing for the drive shaft/axle housing and 2 2" ID 362A roller bearings. I will either drill and tap for grease zerk for the occasional greasing w/o having to tear down the drive side, or put an oil seal in it, similar to an oil bath axle spindle/hub and run an oil bath system with a fill/breather and drain port. 
I figure an oil bath works for OTR tcks, hauling 80,000#+ loads, it should work for my hobby use, but I'm thinking high temp grease will work as well too. 

[proptorudder]

NJ

[waynorthmountie]

@smartecosse I was speaking of the actual roller not the complete system which I agree is very expensive. I just feel the $59 dollars a piece for the rollers themselves is reasonable.