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Author Topic: Bar and chain getting hot  (Read 1084 times)

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Offline Air Lad

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Bar and chain getting hot
« on: January 13, 2019, 05:37:37 AM »
Decided to try the bar that came with this saw today
Got a new 18 inch straight away as she came with 3 x 16 and 3 x 18 chains
Ms260c
So the new bar and 18 inch chains worked beautifully
Today I decided to try the 16 inch option 
The engine grunted and  acted as if the brake was half on
Chain and bar were very hot  on a short cut
Could the bar cause this ?
Was a bit burnt looking when I bought but I put this down to the lack of oil in tank
At what point is a bar stuffed ?
It still has paint on it
Any thoughts?
Ms 170/260c /039...Husk 142e/240e...Unloved Chinese 51.2cc that hasn't done anything wrong...2 x dead Mculloch's ..Vintage Poulan.. and a vintage Echo that still runs beaut

Offline Old Greenhorn

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Re: Bar and chain getting hot
« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2019, 08:35:39 AM »
First check all the basics:
Is the chain just too tight on the new bar? (simple adjustment)
Is the pitch on both chains the same? (They could have given you the wrong chain.)
Is the gauge n both chains and bars the same? (the chain may be jamming in the bar slot)
Can you roll the chain on the bar with the saw off? (perhaps the groove is pinched somewhere or the front sprocket is jammed up)
Can you roll the chain through the bar when it is off the saw? (see above)

Just some basic stuff, but you've probably checked all this already.
 Good Luck.
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 450, 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) I mill for fun and my mental health. NYLT Certified.

I ain't the woodcutter, but I can cut wood 'til the woodcutter gets here.

Offline DelawhereJoe

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Re: Bar and chain getting hot
« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2019, 12:03:13 PM »
On my old 041, unless you pick the nose of the bar up while installing and tightening the b&c the chain will spin like normal for about a minute then lock up tight and not move again till it cools down.
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Offline Air Lad

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Re: Bar and chain getting hot
« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2019, 03:50:12 PM »
First check all the basics:
Is the chain just too tight on the new bar? (simple adjustment)
Is the pitch on both chains the same? (They could have given you the wrong chain.)
Is the gauge n both chains and bars the same? (the chain may be jamming in the bar slot)
Can you roll the chain on the bar with the saw off? (perhaps the groove is pinched somewhere or the front sprocket is jammed up)
Can you roll the chain through the bar when it is off the saw? (see above)

Just some basic stuff, but you've probably checked all this already.
 Good Luck.
Thanks for your suggestions
Have checked all of these but the mystery remains
Ms 170/260c /039...Husk 142e/240e...Unloved Chinese 51.2cc that hasn't done anything wrong...2 x dead Mculloch's ..Vintage Poulan.. and a vintage Echo that still runs beaut

Offline Air Lad

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Re: Bar and chain getting hot
« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2019, 03:53:52 PM »
On my old 041, unless you pick the nose of the bar up while installing and tightening the b&c the chain will spin like normal for about a minute then lock up tight and not move again till it cools down.
I'll have to check that out
Thanks for the idea
Ms 170/260c /039...Husk 142e/240e...Unloved Chinese 51.2cc that hasn't done anything wrong...2 x dead Mculloch's ..Vintage Poulan.. and a vintage Echo that still runs beaut

Offline wild262

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Re: Bar and chain getting hot
« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2019, 04:12:25 PM »
            
On my old 041, unless you pick the nose of the bar up while installing and tightening the b&c the chain will spin like normal for about a minute then lock up tight and not move again till it cools down.
Good point Delawhere Joe.   Try setting your saw on a hard surface, log or tailgate, and assemble the bar/chain assembly & clutch cover.  Start the bolts on your studs & draw finger tight.  Then grip your left hand in your throttle area, and raise up or tilt your bar nose down till it contacts the surface, and hold it there, while you tighten your bar nuts.  Takes longer to say it than to do it. 

Offline Allar

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Re: Bar and chain getting hot
« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2019, 04:31:25 PM »
Have you made sure that you're getting enough oil ? I had the same issue when my oil pump died on my chainsaw.
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Offline Air Lad

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Re: Bar and chain getting hot
« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2019, 05:52:17 AM »
Have you made sure that you're getting enough oil ? I had the same issue when my oil pump died on my chainsaw.
Yes of course. This mystery remains even now as this arvo I ran the chain around on the bar off the saw to see if there was a pinch or if the chain was bottoming out but nothing is obvious. Chain slides around as you would expect.
There is the symptom of no oil but this thing got super hot on the first cut and bogged the engine like the brake was half on
Whack the new 18 bar on no sweat, all is good.
There is blackening near the very base of the bar where the chain first comes off the sprocket. Too busy with work atm to spend too much time with this issue but the answer will come one way or another . Thanks for your suggestion mate
 
Ms 170/260c /039...Husk 142e/240e...Unloved Chinese 51.2cc that hasn't done anything wrong...2 x dead Mculloch's ..Vintage Poulan.. and a vintage Echo that still runs beaut

Offline Air Lad

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Re: Bar and chain getting hot
« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2019, 06:01:25 AM »
           
On my old 041, unless you pick the nose of the bar up while installing and tightening the b&c the chain will spin like normal for about a minute then lock up tight and not move again till it cools down.
Good point Delawhere Joe.   Try setting your saw on a hard surface, log or tailgate, and assemble the bar/chain assembly & clutch cover.  Start the bolts on your studs & draw finger tight.  Then grip your left hand in your throttle area, and raise up or tilt your bar nose down till it contacts the surface, and hold it there, while you tighten your bar nuts.  Takes longer to say it than to do it.
Thanks for the response
This one is the tooless adjust job
The recommendation is to lift the bar upward on tightening. I do this also run chain around after tightening to check not tight or loose ( same as always) 
But start an run and try to cut.....
I will let you know once I have worked it out
That reminds me about the constipated mathematician
He worked it out with a pencil
Cheers wild262
Ms 170/260c /039...Husk 142e/240e...Unloved Chinese 51.2cc that hasn't done anything wrong...2 x dead Mculloch's ..Vintage Poulan.. and a vintage Echo that still runs beaut

Offline Al_Smith

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Re: Bar and chain getting hot
« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2019, 07:52:12 AM »
 


That reminds me about the constipated mathematician
He worked it out with a pencil
Cheers wild262

A pencil is probably a better option than a pocket calculator or a slide rule

Offline Air Lad

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Re: Bar and chain getting hot
« Reply #10 on: January 15, 2019, 04:48:23 AM »
More info
Knowing which 16 in chain on the machine at time of sale is a mystery as I took it straight off and fitted new 18 in to match the other 3 chains that came with the sale
All six chains are .325
the burner has a 21 stamped on drive link (oregon)
the other two have 22 (oregon) and 6 (stihl)
Research has shown 6 and 22 are .063 guage
The 21 is .058
 So if its thinner... why the burn?
Note. the 21 looks chunkier when lined up beside the others

Hope this can help others to understand what is happening once we have the answer
Cheers
Ms 170/260c /039...Husk 142e/240e...Unloved Chinese 51.2cc that hasn't done anything wrong...2 x dead Mculloch's ..Vintage Poulan.. and a vintage Echo that still runs beaut

Offline Old Greenhorn

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Re: Bar and chain getting hot
« Reply #11 on: January 15, 2019, 12:26:47 PM »
If I recall, up above you had said you checked this already. No matter, you found your problem. The chain is not staying straight in the slot and 'flopping' on it's side a bit, causing more friction and therefore heat. When it cocks to the side, it also cannot cut correctly, adding more load and more heat. Finally, if the gauge is smaller, it is probably sitting further down in the groove and the link plates are dragging along the rail, this is the main culprit and explains why it is so tight, I think.
Get the right gauge chain and your problem should go away. Make sure the gauge is a match for the bar also, which SHOULD be marked.
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 450, 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) I mill for fun and my mental health. NYLT Certified.

I ain't the woodcutter, but I can cut wood 'til the woodcutter gets here.

Offline Air Lad

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Re: Bar and chain getting hot
« Reply #12 on: January 15, 2019, 02:49:26 PM »
Is the pitch on both chains the same.?
You were right Old Greenhorn. There are 6 chains in all . 3 at 16 in and 3 at 18 in
All are second hand and came with the saw but have plenty of meat left 
All are .325
When you line them all up together the difference is very hard to notice
Certainly learned something today
Thanks for the help and 
Cheers
Ms 170/260c /039...Husk 142e/240e...Unloved Chinese 51.2cc that hasn't done anything wrong...2 x dead Mculloch's ..Vintage Poulan.. and a vintage Echo that still runs beaut

Offline Old Greenhorn

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Re: Bar and chain getting hot
« Reply #13 on: January 16, 2019, 10:27:52 AM »
Is the pitch on both chains the same.?
You were right Old Greenhorn.
Wait, WHAT?! I was right? Hang on, let me get my wife, she has to see this....:) Never mind, she would just say 'well even a blind squirrel finds a nut every once in a while.'
Just glad you found the issue.
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 450, 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) I mill for fun and my mental health. NYLT Certified.

I ain't the woodcutter, but I can cut wood 'til the woodcutter gets here.

Offline esteadle

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Re: Bar and chain getting hot
« Reply #14 on: January 17, 2019, 04:37:01 PM »
> The 21 is .058  So if its thinner... why the burn?

Because the chain tilts left and right inside of the guide grooves as you saw, and the ends of those drive links are scraping the bar guides on every single pass. It wont' matter how much bar oil you add, it'll all burn up as the heat from friction heats it up and burns it off. 


Timber Harvester 30HT26 (setworks, hydraulic) Stihl 880 (36" bar).

Offline Hilltop366

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Re: Bar and chain getting hot
« Reply #15 on: January 17, 2019, 05:03:56 PM »
Could it also be that the thinner drive link has more gap in the bar grove and is not forcing the oil up to the top of the rail as well as a proper sized drive link would?

Offline Air Lad

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Re: Bar and chain getting hot
« Reply #16 on: January 17, 2019, 05:32:56 PM »
> The 21 is .058 So if its thinner... why the burn?

Because the chain tilts left and right inside of the guide grooves as you saw, and the ends of those drive links are scraping the bar guides on every single pass. It wont' matter how much bar oil you add, it'll all burn up as the heat from friction heats it up and burns it off.
Could it also be that the thinner drive link has more gap in the bar grove and is not forcing the oil up to the top of the rail as well as a proper sized drive link would?

Now that I am aware of the slightly different gauge I sharnt be trying to use it on the .063 bars
This could be the chain the bloke I bought it off was trying to use which could explain why the bar looked like it had been getting hot
I never tried to cut with the one that was on at sale
The new 18in bar went straight on and all 6 chains I sharpened
May explain why this little beauty landed in my lap for a bargain
Cheers and thanks for helpful suggestions
Ms 170/260c /039...Husk 142e/240e...Unloved Chinese 51.2cc that hasn't done anything wrong...2 x dead Mculloch's ..Vintage Poulan.. and a vintage Echo that still runs beaut


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