The Forestry Forum is sponsored in part by:

iDRY Vacuum Kilns


Forestry Forum
Sponsored by:


TimberKing Sawmills



Toll Free 1-800-582-0470

LogRite Tools



Norwood Industries Inc.




Your source for Portable Sawmills, Edgers, Resaws, Sharpeners, Setters, Bandsaw Blades and Sawmill Parts

EZ Boardwalk Sawmills. More Saw For Less Money!

STIHLDealers.com sponsored by Northeast STIHL


Woodland Sawmills

Peterson Swingmills

 KASCO SharpTech WoodMaxx Blades

Turbosawmill

Sawmill Exchange

Michigan Firewood, your BRUTE FORCE Authorized Dealer

FARMA


Baker Products

ECHO-Bearcat

iDRY Wood Lumber Vacuum Drying for everyon

Baltic Abrasives Technologies Nyle Kiln Dry Systems




Author Topic: First Timber Frame Build  (Read 1600 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Don P

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 5636
  • Location: Southwestern VA
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
    • Calculator Index
Re: First Timber Frame Build
« Reply #20 on: January 31, 2019, 06:29:01 PM »
Sort of, but generally no. Dougfir is usually pulled out and market by itself or with other higher strength species. When you see me use a term like "western woods" in relation to strengths it is in reference to a "species combination" in the tables. SPF and SYP are the best known species combinations, Spruce-Pine-Fir, and Southern Yellow Pine (5 species). They have grouped together a set of species that are marketed together and assign that group design strength values based on the weakest member of that group, so most often Dougfir is pulled out and marketed on its own because it is generally a good bit stronger than other members of that combination. Hope that made sense.

To the nitty gritty. In the front of the "Supplement to the NDS, Design values for wood construction", that's where the tables are, is a list of species combinations. Western Woods; Any species in the Douglas Fir-Larch, Douglas Fir-South, Hem-Fir, and Spruce-Pine-Fir (South) species combinations, plus any or all of the following: Alpine Fir, Idaho White Pine, Mountain Hemlock, Ponderosa Pine, Sugar Pine.

The truck was fun, had to drop the axle and lift the engine to get the pan off, yup the pump screen was clogged, with sludge and big metal shavings. I was hoping for just the sludge and was going to put a new pump in, not looking like it's worth the expense, I think she's done. Clean it up and slap it back together tomorrow. Well I got it right, I bought it at the wore out price :D

I'll try to peck away at the calcs after a warmup and some chow.
A laborer works with his hands
A craftsman uses his brain and his hands
An artist uses his brain, his hands, and his heart

Offline nativewolf

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 1619
  • Location: Delaplane, VA
  • Forester
    • Share Post
Re: First Timber Frame Build
« Reply #21 on: January 31, 2019, 07:14:59 PM »
och, sorry to hear about the truck.  I'm looking for 2 farm trucks myself.
Liking Walnut

Offline Don P

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 5636
  • Location: Southwestern VA
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
    • Calculator Index
Re: First Timber Frame Build
« Reply #22 on: January 31, 2019, 11:25:54 PM »
I might have a pasture truck available soon. Actually I have another engine I can drop into it. I'll run this one till it screeches to a halt first though.

Got the design values installed in both calcs, should be good to go.
A laborer works with his hands
A craftsman uses his brain and his hands
An artist uses his brain, his hands, and his heart

Offline Brad_bb

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 3633
  • Age: 47
  • Location: Joliet, IL and Indy
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: First Timber Frame Build
« Reply #23 on: February 01, 2019, 12:38:17 PM »
aguaman99, I think your local Doug fir would be the preferable material to work with.  Very good strength to weight ratio.  Remember that there are two different types of doug fir, coastal doug fir which tends to be clear straight grained, and interior doug fir like you have locally, which is what is typically used for timberframes in your area.

Are you planning to have the frame engineered?  It is money well spent in my opinion.  They will analyze the frame and answer what you have asked with this post.  They will take into account your loads, material, and all the details of your design and tell you if your sizing is adequate, needs increasing a certain location, etc.  Firetower engineered timber inc, is the company most timberframers use for engineering and is very experience in timberframe engineering.  I realize that you may not need engineer stamped drawings in Northern Idaho, but it's worth the money if they find a problem that is corrected in the design phase rather than after the fact.  Also better for resale.  You also want an engineered foundation.  Someone local might be good for that knowing the geology and local codes or local practices, but Firetower will also offer design there as well.  
Anything someone can design, I can sure figure out how to fix!
If I say it\\\\\\\'s going to take so long, multiply that by at least 3!

Offline ljohnsaw

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 3652
  • Age: 59
  • Location: Northern California
  • Gender: Male
  • Happily retired... Working harder than ever!
    • Share Post
Re: First Timber Frame Build
« Reply #24 on: February 01, 2019, 03:54:11 PM »
Firetower engineered timber inc, is the company most timberframers use for engineering and is very experience in timberframe engineering.
+1
You also want an engineered foundation.
I didn't get mine engineered though Fire Tower did look it over and had me add extra rebar.  I basically used the lowest ground compressive strength to determine how big the footings needed to be.  Otherwise you need to have a study done on your dirt.  Extra concrete is cheaper than having the study done! ;)  The blocks I used were "pre-engineered" so I just had to include a data sheet for the county.
I might have a pasture truck available soon.
What's a pasture truck?  Is that one that is long in the tooth and has been retired to the pasture or is it one that has only been used "by a little old lady" out in the pasture (low mileage)? ???
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/32" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

Offline Don P

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 5636
  • Location: Southwestern VA
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
    • Calculator Index
Re: First Timber Frame Build
« Reply #25 on: February 01, 2019, 05:48:49 PM »
I got it back together and running today, that engine is ready to be put out to pasture, I can see the shop it is going to for the engine swap from where it is now so hopefully it can hammer and thrash long enough to get that far. One of the previous owners didn't change oil very well. I bought it 30k ago with 2 thrown pushrods and expected to swap then. Just for grins I blew gunk out of the lifters and pushrods, reinstalled and got a couple of free years out of it so not bad.

I've talked with Firetower and showed Ben the calcs several years ago, I'll third the recommendation. Whenever we talk about design here, and the op mentioned it in his first post, it is for preliminary design. It gets the design into the ballpark hopefully and then the engineering goes easier and the client has a better understanding of the engineering. Make no bones about it, I'm not pretending to be an engineer, I'm a carpenter who is sharing some experience that is all.
A laborer works with his hands
A craftsman uses his brain and his hands
An artist uses his brain, his hands, and his heart

Offline aguaman99

  • member
  • *
  • Posts: 14
  • I'm new!
    • Share Post
Re: First Timber Frame Build
« Reply #26 on: February 02, 2019, 03:21:12 PM »
aguaman99, I think your local Doug fir would be the preferable material to work with.  Very good strength to weight ratio.  Remember that there are two different types of doug fir, coastal doug fir which tends to be clear straight grained, and interior doug fir like you have locally, which is what is typically used for timberframes in your area.

Are you planning to have the frame engineered?  It is money well spent in my opinion.  They will analyze the frame and answer what you have asked with this post.  They will take into account your loads, material, and all the details of your design and tell you if your sizing is adequate, needs increasing a certain location, etc.  Firetower engineered timber inc, is the company most timberframers use for engineering and is very experience in timberframe engineering.  I realize that you may not need engineer stamped drawings in Northern Idaho, but it's worth the money if they find a problem that is corrected in the design phase rather than after the fact.  Also better for resale.  You also want an engineered foundation.  Someone local might be good for that knowing the geology and local codes or local practices, but Firetower will also offer design there as well.  
yes i absolutely am on both accounts. Very sound advice i intend to follow. Thanks for the reference on the engineer. right now I'm just trying to get the general idea and architectural details sorted out before i involve an engineer. In my experience its best to have your other design parameters well thought out first before engaging with an engineer as 90% of that info is required for them to accurately do their job correctly.  Engaging with them too soon is a waste of their time and my money ;-). It seems your into quality old tools.... I am as well. thanks for the advice.

Offline aguaman99

  • member
  • *
  • Posts: 14
  • I'm new!
    • Share Post
Re: First Timber Frame Build
« Reply #27 on: February 02, 2019, 03:24:33 PM »
Sort of, but generally no. Dougfir is usually pulled out and market by itself or with other higher strength species. When you see me use a term like "western woods" in relation to strengths it is in reference to a "species combination" in the tables. SPF and SYP are the best known species combinations, Spruce-Pine-Fir, and Southern Yellow Pine (5 species). They have grouped together a set of species that are marketed together and assign that group design strength values based on the weakest member of that group, so most often Dougfir is pulled out and marketed on its own because it is generally a good bit stronger than other members of that combination. Hope that made sense.

To the nitty gritty. In the front of the "Supplement to the NDS, Design values for wood construction", that's where the tables are, is a list of species combinations. Western Woods; Any species in the Douglas Fir-Larch, Douglas Fir-South, Hem-Fir, and Spruce-Pine-Fir (South) species combinations, plus any or all of the following: Alpine Fir, Idaho White Pine, Mountain Hemlock, Ponderosa Pine, Sugar Pine.

The truck was fun, had to drop the axle and lift the engine to get the pan off, yup the pump screen was clogged, with sludge and big metal shavings. I was hoping for just the sludge and was going to put a new pump in, not looking like it's worth the expense, I think she's done. Clean it up and slap it back together tomorrow. Well I got it right, I bought it at the wore out price :D

I'll try to peck away at the calcs after a warmup and some chow.
wrenching on trucks is never a thing i do unless i can help it ;-). Thanks for the info. I'm rethinking my sizes and costs and playing with the model now.  


Share via delicious Share via digg Share via facebook Share via linkedin Share via pinterest Share via reddit Share via stumble Share via tumblr Share via twitter

xx
My timber frame build

Started by ljohnsaw on Timber Framing/Log construction

430 Replies
62433 Views
Last post July 17, 2019, 06:34:14 PM
by firefighter ontheside
xx
Wanting to build my own timber frame

Started by stl_6string on Timber Framing/Log construction

3 Replies
1521 Views
Last post January 13, 2006, 07:43:11 PM
by srjones
xx
Not Timber Frame but a build question...

Started by SPD748 on Timber Framing/Log construction

4 Replies
1226 Views
Last post August 02, 2015, 03:33:59 PM
by fishfighter
xx
Timber Frame Cabin Build

Started by TimFromNB on Timber Framing/Log construction

67 Replies
8254 Views
Last post April 19, 2019, 10:15:02 AM
by TimFromNB
 


Powered by EzPortal