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Author Topic: I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.  (Read 18670 times)

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Offline WV Sawmiller

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   I'm with woodpecker. If you get the chance start sawing even without the debarker. The debarker just extends the life of your blade. It does not make better lumber. Besides - you will probably saw into a side support or clamp after a few passes anyway and have to replace that blade anyway. :D :D Those side supports like mine did not come with all those teeth marks on the rollers. You have to customize them yourself. ;)
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2009 4wd Dodge PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Sthil 440 & 441, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once"

Offline MikeySP

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Ok, Gents, while I had a couple delays, the debarker is up and running and I was able to run my sawmill for several hours yesterday. It was slow, but I was very satisfied to get he most sawing I have done in a day and since starting on that debarker build. 



 

Since those logs have spent 6-12 months lying on the ground (burn pile) I have not only been sawing logs, but big white grub worms. I have seen a dozen of these vermin in only the few logs I sawed. 

This wood is going into my barn and my son is building himself a small office this coming week. 

Can I spray bora care and call it a day? Do we frame his storage shed (office) and once dried-in use the good quality bug spray we have (termador) and then insulate, cover the walls and be good? I hate for him (office), me (barn) to use this lumber for the above mentioned projects and have HUGE regrets, but I do not want to waste money either. 

Thank you.

-Mike

Offline MikeySP

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I noticed Bora care is pretty spendy and end inexpensive Timbor is pre infestation. 

Do these bugs die when the wood dries out from being in a dehumidified environment? I tend to doubt this as I recall reading somewhere about furniture with little sawdust piles from PPB (Powderpost beetles) and the like.

Offline MikeySP

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Btulloh stated the following: 

"Those grubs sound like pine borers.  They won't bother you later on, but PPB can part of your future.  They probably aren't there now.  FWIW, I had some pine logs that sat too long and got the borers in them.  I sawed siding for my sawmill shed out those logs and put the siding up.  After two years, no sign of any other issues.  I do have some nice peep holes to look through though."

I just a read a bit about PPB (Powderpost beetles) and I don't see those types of holes so far. 

I would certainly feel very bad if my son spends $1500 on all the other materials for this little office and I give him wood that turns his project into a nightmare.

-Mike

Online YellowHammer

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Heres my take on bugs, in general.  The only ones I worry about are the ones I cant see.  The big grubs, the carpenter ants, and even the termites are easy to identify and deal with in a physical sense.  Termaticides, Deltamethrin, etc are commercially available and commercially effective for these. Youd see and hear them if they were in the wood.  They are big and noticeable. Cut the lumber, shake them out, trim the boards, etc to get rid of them.  I used to have a flock of pet chickens that would stand be me when I milled nasty wood and peck the bugs from the boards and the ground.  

Im simplifying for the sake of brevity, but powder post beetles, in general are very specific in the wood that they like, hardwood beetles only like hardwood, softwood beetle only dine in softwood.  So they are self limiting in a sense.  You may have an infested hardwood table, but it wont spread to the pine studs.  It may very well spread to the hardwood floor, if you have one.

Most of the little black holes you see in hardwoods when it is green are ambrosia beetles. They will leave when the wood dries.  The holes are easy to identify.  Not a problem.  

There are commercially available insecticides much more aggressive than Timbor, but its an industry standard because its effective and very safe.



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Offline doc henderson

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hey mike, can you post some pics of the holes with a scale and or pics of the grubs, and wood type,  will see if @Wood Doctor  will chime in.
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Offline MikeySP

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Thank you Yellow Hammer. 

The logs I am sawing may have all of the above? We are not using it for any furniture grade stuff that I forsee.  Barn, Framing, etc... 

Since my son is framing up his shed office today, I will wait until it is dried in and then spray with my professional insecticide to make sure we do not leave a haven behind the finish wall/ceilling. 

However, I am very interested in more about the commercially available insecticides. I have found a few threads but limited info. Seems Boracare and Timbor dominate on the forum. 

Great idea Doc Henderson. I am working with my son in picking uip some materials/tools this morning, bt will get to sawing in a few hours and I will keep my phone ready for pics as they become available. 

-Mike

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Timbor uses Disodium Octaborate Tetrahydrate.  Boracare uses an additional ingredient to help it absorb into the wood some small distance.  

The active ingredient is extremely deadly to wood boring insects but also very safe for humans.  It will not break down over time, but is a surface treatment, not killing insects deep in the wood unless injected directly into their galleries or introduced under pressure.  However, it makes a barrier such that insects emerging from the wood are exposed and killed as well as any new insects boring in. Timbor and the like are also very effective for mold and fungus control.  So its a very useful one-two punch, and and considering it doesn't degrade over time (it will get washed away) and that its relatively inexpensive, explains why if is so popular in the industry.

If you have an active infestation, then contact insecticides, such as pyrethrins (I have had good success with Delta Dust), are effective, and other more residual herbicides require a Restricted Use Applicators License, sounds like you may have one, too.  Apply directly as a spray or powder, and watch the critters die.  Termidor, cypermethrin, etc are effective and moderately residual (3 months) and I very rarely use them on my personal wood, and never on a customer's wood due to liability reasons.  I would have to provide SDS with my sales, and customers don't want chemically impregnated wood, even if the surface treatments plane off in the first pass or so, or have degraded over time.  

Its important, for my purposes (others may well do it differently), to treat the wood based not only on the threat of infestation, but also the end user.  So when a customer asks me if I use chemicals on their wood, the answer is always an empathatic "No".

The kiln is the best way to sterilize wood, if you have access to one.  
 
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Offline burtle

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Mike,

I'm glad you started this thread!

I'm looking to buy my first mill as well because I want to start a portable mill business on the side of my regular job.

I'm looking at a 2018 LT40 wide.


I've learned a lot from this thread!


Never Give Up

Offline MikeySP

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Yellow Hammer, excellent. thank you for the additional data on the insecticides. 

Folks, 

I am sawing up 5/8 x 6" pine lap siding for my son today.

What would you recommend I use for a protective coating? Thomson waterseal I have some on hand? I will spray it for bugs first since it is likely infested.  But, I want to give my son the best possibility to have some longevity from rain and the overhang is very small. I heard of using old motor oil, but am not sure if that would stink? After living in this camper for a year and a half, this oasis for his study will be very welcome to my honorable son. Plus, we get one side of our dinner table back from his little dominion :). I will spray for bugs on all sides. I plan to lay siding out on pallets side by side, spray it, flip it, spray again. We can install and spray water protective layer on office, or we can spray it on the pallets. If i do it on the pallets, I can spray both sides and this may prove a help when splatter goes up and between the boards? 

In my pic below, I am thinking the red pattern is the way to go to lessen the amount of cupping... am I wrong? Does it matter?




 

Skidsteer won't start. I think rain may have gotten to electrical while sitting. Started like a champ the other day. I wish this thing was wired with essentials. All the safeties, computer really make it a bit of a challenge for me. Of well.  I may postpone working on it, so I can saw. I spent most of yesterday helping my son get started on his office. When I finally got to the sawing, I discovered the skidsteer would not start.

-Mike

Offline MikeySP

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Hi Burtle! Thank you for chiming in. We have bith learned a lot... you learned it 18 years younger than me.. good for you! :) I hope you have much wisdom and prosper in in accomplishing your vision.

Edgar Guest poem, It Couldnt Be Done, to encourage you:

"Somebody said that it couldnt be done
     But he with a chuckle replied
That maybe it couldnt, but he would be one
     Who wouldnt say so till hed tried.
So he buckled right in with the trace of a grin
     On his face. If he worried he hid it.
He started to sing as he tackled the thing
     That couldnt be done, and he did it!

Somebody scoffed: Oh, youll never do that;
     At least no one ever has done it;
But he took off his coat and he took off his hat
     And the first thing we knew hed begun it.
With a lift of his chin and a bit of a grin,
     Without any doubting or quiddit,
He started to sing as he tackled the thing
     That couldnt be done, and he did it.

There are thousands to tell you it cannot be done,
     There are thousands to prophesy failure,
There are thousands to point out to you one by one,
     The dangers that wait to assail you.
But just buckle in with a bit of a grin,
     Just take off your coat and go to it;
Just start in to sing as you tackle the thing
     That cannot be done, and youll do it."

-Mike

Offline Magicman

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I would not saw red.  I would saw down to the blue from each side and edge those flitches.  I would then saw ~1/3 of blue, rotate the cant 180, and saw through. 

Now when installing; orient the boards so that the pith side is toward the outside of the building.  (Bark side toward the building.)  This will cause the edges of the boards to tend to cup toward the building.
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FWIW, I agree completely with MM.  The goal for flat sawn lumber is to always try to center the axis of the board with the axis of the log, no matter how far away.  Center the axis as best you can and balance the board.  Much better behaved lumber that way.  

Sawing red is a modified quartersawing pattern and will reduce cup in some of the boards but they will curve and need to be edged after drying.  If you were sawing red, stay well away from the pith or the boards will dry like McDonalds Golden Arches.  Not really a good sawing pattern for siding.  
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Offline MikeySP

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MM and YH, thank you. Blue pattern it is. 

-Mike

Offline MikeySP

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The lap siding will not be getting kiln dried. The logs have sat for six months to a year. When he attaches the siding this coming week it will be done as shown in illustration below. Will the fact that the pine is not kiln dried cause us a lot of grief? 

-Mike

 

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Just be sure to turn the correct face out/in.  I would lay a ~1" strip about " up from the bottom so that the bottom board will match the others.  Tapering the bottom board edge will also provide a sharp edge to serve as a drip edge.
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Offline 78NHTFY

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MikeySP--good thread.  You got the addiction bad....and there's no cure :o!  It's revived my own interest in cobbling together a debarker for my LT 40 using an old electric chainsaw with a modified cutter bar/chain.  It's just a pipe dream as I have none of your skills :'(...
I have cut lots of 6" pine lap siding.  I cut 6" cants, lay 2 or 3 together on the sawmill bed and saw. (Drop 1/2"--saw, drop 1/2"--saw: with 1/8" kerf of the blade, you get 3/8" siding).   Best to sticker dry for a month at least, it dries fast.  It will also reveal which ones are no good (curl, cup, split....).  I cut mine 3/8" and got 95% good ones (cut like in blue diagram you made).  When dry, used old cans of left over stain and rolled the back side of each piece (8' to 12' long), to seal backside.  Then did two coats of stain for the front side of the siding.  Because lap siding has space behind most of each board (4"), dispensed with any verticals for an air gap.  Nailed bottom of each siding with stainless ring shanks.  They've been on 2 Winters so far and still looking very good.  Oh yeah--make sure your trim (corners, windows) are thick enough to account for the lap.  Attached is a pic of my kitchen addition.  All the best, Rob.

 

If you have time, you win.

Offline MikeySP

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Magicman, thank you for that correction. I will hearken!

Rob, thank you for chiming in, for the encouragement, and for the good ideas. The office/shed can survive for a few weeks while I see how it all dries up. Pic looks good!

-Mike

Offline MikeySP

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Howdy! I visited a potential customer's house. I am trying to figure out what he can expect from his desires and what to charge. 

General Details (numbers are close approximations):
  • 50 Cedar logs
  • Felled a year ago. 
  • Large ends 8"-11"
  • Small ends 6"- 10" 
  • Logs are all 20+feet, so I will buck (cut) them to lengths desired by customer.
  • Customer does not help me at all; so, I do it alone or hire a helper.
  • Logs are stacked in two piles. One larger (40 logs) and one small, 10 logs). End-to-end, so move is about 25 feet.
  • No log handling equipment on site, besides my can't hook.
  • He is 30 minutes away, 22 miles. 

Customer Desires:
  • As many posts as possible - 4x4, 6x6, and 6x8
  • He emphasized desire for 10 - 12'x6"x8" if possible
  • Any non post will be 1x6
  • He wants nothing short of 8ft length
  • If a log would give one 12ft 6x8 or two 8ft 6x6, he preferes 12foot 6x8.

Some sample measurements ofa couple logs: 
  • 11" at large end/8" at small end 24ft. Also 8" at 19ft.
  • 10" at large end/6" at 19ft.
  • 9" at large end/6.5" at 12ft.

Below are some pics. The fresh cut pics are from a year ago. The others, I took Saturday.

Thank you. 

-Mike



 


 



 

 


 

 

 

Online Southside

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Did he mention having clean sides or is wane / defects OK? Being cedar it will have taper and surprises that come at all the wrong places. If he is OK with more of a potential rustic look to some of the posts your options are greater on posts. Not saying all will end up that way, but as long as he understands the nature of cedar is all. 
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