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Author Topic: anchorseal  (Read 1249 times)

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Offline xlogger

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anchorseal
« on: January 31, 2019, 04:32:06 AM »
Getting real low on Anchorseal now. Was wondering how much it does help. Most of my logs when I get them have been cut a week or more. Some already have some cracks. Is it worth doing?
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Offline Al_Smith

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Re: anchorseal
« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2019, 06:23:56 AM »
I use roofing tar and prior to milling cut a cookie off the end .Anchor seal does okay but doesn't stay forever like tar .

Offline doc henderson

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Re: anchorseal
« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2019, 06:51:39 AM »
I have used it and paint.  I think they both help, but is recommended ASAP before cracks develop and I tend to wait.  I bought a box of the plastic ties with special hammer/driver that are to stop cracks after they begin.  I have not tried this yet.  I know @doc Wengert is a fan and has data to back it up.  I have a buddy who is going to get me wax emulsion concrete sealer that they use by the truckload.  I can get it for free.  I think cost is the big issue.  I will post after I try that.

Offline Southside logger

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Re: anchorseal
« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2019, 08:36:51 AM »
I use Henrys or Blackjack white rubber roofing sealer. Stays on excellent and you can still see the grain for sawing. 
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Re: anchorseal
« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2019, 09:24:31 AM »
I cut a cookie and apply Anchor seal just prior .I've found leaving the tar on not only fouls the band but also streaks the lumber with tar .Tar coated cookies really roar in a wood stove once they get going ,smokes a bit too .So far I haven't been investigated by the wood  stove patrol or the chainsaw police .Safe for now .

Offline YellowHammer

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Re: anchorseal
« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2019, 12:38:29 PM »
I am convinced Anchorseal does a benificial job of stopping cracks on some species, such as oak, cherry, walnut.  Not so much on pine, basswood, etc. I donít spray my logs anymore, I mill them, deadstack and then pack saw, to freshen the ends.  Then I spray the ends of the entire pack.  

The cost of the shipping Anchorseal has really gone up, maybe shipping is now 1/4 the cost of the product, so I am looking for alternatives.  I may try some the the Blackjack sealer.  

I wouldnít sticker any high value wood unless it has been endsealed efffectively.  

It does make a difference, I can tell when a pack has slipped through and not gotten sprayed, in a few weeks itís full of little end cracks.  

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Re: anchorseal
« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2019, 10:40:04 AM »
We need to get local groups together to buy a 55 gallon drum and share the cost.  It is about half the price.  They do that with woodworking clubs.  Maybe we can work something out at the next Georgia Sycamore quartersawing project!
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Offline Glenn1

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Re: anchorseal
« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2019, 03:14:53 PM »
Last winter, I purchased a 55 gallon drum of Anchorseal.  By buying it during the winter, they add a liquid  that eliminates freezing.  I believe that I paid approximately $330 for the drum plus shipping with an LTL shipper.
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Re: anchorseal
« Reply #8 on: February 06, 2019, 06:14:45 PM »
I'm pretty much out today, going to order 5 gallons, wonder what it costs now.
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Re: anchorseal
« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2019, 10:11:37 PM »
Who is using anchorseal 2 and is it as good as the original?
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Re: anchorseal
« Reply #10 on: February 07, 2019, 04:27:55 AM »
I was thinking after my last post that I've got several cans of paint in the basement that are really old now. I know they are not as good to use as anchorseal but need to get rid of them. Wonder if I coat the ends of logs heavy with them it would help.
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Offline YellowHammer

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Re: anchorseal
« Reply #11 on: February 07, 2019, 07:32:37 AM »
I've used Anchorseal 2 and I prefer the original.

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Re: anchorseal
« Reply #12 on: February 07, 2019, 07:34:20 AM »
Me too.  I don't prefer the anchorseal 2 and just use the original formulation.
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Offline GeneWengert-WoodDoc

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Re: anchorseal
« Reply #13 on: February 07, 2019, 11:26:36 AM »
It is my understanding that some people did not apply Anchorseal original thick enuf to do a good job, so they made a second formulation that went on thicker.  The original should not be brushed on to make a thin coat, like painting a wall, but should be smothered on.  If you do put on a thick coat of original, stay with it.

Incidentally, for 8/4 and thicker, especially expensive woods, apply two coats about 30 minutes apart.

Most house paints do not form a good moisture barrier so they are not the best option for thick lumber, for higher shrinking species, and for expensive woods.
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Offline Tom the Sawyer

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Re: anchorseal
« Reply #14 on: February 07, 2019, 11:38:26 AM »
House paint also makes it difficult to see the heart, read the grain or see evidence of metal stain, spalting, etc.
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Re: anchorseal
« Reply #15 on: February 07, 2019, 12:01:01 PM »
   This thread reminded me to go buy another 5 gallon bucket. I did get hit with shipping charges this time so I assume UC-Coatings has changed their policy/pricing. I knew it was too good to last. Total $123.80 while the last was about $95 a few months ago. I checked on the Henry's White Rubber sealant at Lowes and this was still much cheaper and I know how well it works. They are very prompt on delivery too. I like the clear so I can see the heart checks and such to help determine my sawing path.
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Re: anchorseal
« Reply #16 on: February 07, 2019, 01:32:52 PM »
looks like the classic is a little more expensive and petroleum ingredients and 2 has some plant based polymers.  about 96 dollars to 91 dollars respectively with color.  plus shipping.  I use a cheap HF airless sprayer to put on the classic.  when I roll it on, I seem to get quite a bit on the ground.  I had them add the antifreeze to mine as well.

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Re: anchorseal
« Reply #17 on: February 08, 2019, 05:56:56 AM »
When ahead and order 5 gallons yesterday $88 plus shipping. The air less sprayer you posted about, is it lots of trouble to clean up after each use? Most of the time I'm only painting one log at a time.
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Re: anchorseal
« Reply #18 on: February 08, 2019, 06:38:48 AM »
Shipping was the killer, last time I paid $34 bucks for a $93 bucket, December 27.  That seemed extremely high considering shipping used to be free, considering I purchase several 5 gallon buckets at the same time.

I use the pump up backpack sprayer sold by anchor seal and there is no cleanup.  I love it.  Every now and them I remove the tip and blow it out with an air compressor.  Thats the great thing about Anchorseal, spray it and stick the sprayer under the workbench until the next time.  

Some of the other sealers will actually dry or cure, and cleanup can be a major headache and time consumer.  
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Re: anchorseal
« Reply #19 on: February 08, 2019, 05:56:41 PM »
I have used it and paint.  I think they both help, but is recommended ASAP before cracks develop and I tend to wait.  I bought a box of the plastic ties with special hammer/driver that are to stop cracks after they begin.  I have not tried this yet.  I know @doc Wengert is a fan and has data to back it up.  I have a buddy who is going to get me wax emulsion concrete sealer that they use by the truckload.  I can get it for free.  I think cost is the big issue.  I will post after I try that.
Have you or anyone here used the plastic ties? How do you think they work?
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Re: anchorseal
« Reply #20 on: February 08, 2019, 06:24:43 PM »
I am a hobbyist so I often miss opportunities like stopping a crack with the plastic ties.  If I can, I get it done same day, but once I park a log in a stack I tend to go to work and forget about it.  I tried pounding it into a log to see how it goes in.  It is technically fine but will have too make a point to try it in real time and circumstances and get back to you.

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Re: anchorseal
« Reply #21 on: February 08, 2019, 09:03:15 PM »
It's been mentioned on here before that Woodcraft stores sell Anchorseal, I think it was in gallon jugs.  I see that Louisville has it.  What's the probability that this would save money for any of you.

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Re: anchorseal
« Reply #22 on: February 08, 2019, 09:55:09 PM »
WR meadows 1300,  it was less than 90$ delivered for 5 gallons just had to search Google.  Wax emulsion based concrete sealer seems to work good on my logs so far.

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Re: anchorseal
« Reply #23 on: February 08, 2019, 10:10:41 PM »
JohnW,  Woodcraft does sell it in quarts and gallons. On-line price is $33.50 per gallon, plus shipping.  Price drops significantly in larger quantities.  If you only need a gallon, its worth it.  If you go through a lot of it, look for at least 5 gallon pails.
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Re: anchorseal
« Reply #24 on: February 08, 2019, 11:20:22 PM »
@Tom the Sawyer does woodcraft sell it in 5 gal jugs? i just went to their site, and didn't see it. even did a search for it and only 1 gal and 1 qt, on their site. 
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Re: anchorseal
« Reply #25 on: February 09, 2019, 12:13:20 AM »
No, Woodcraft only sells quarts and gallons.  I think that is all that most of UC Coatings' dealers carry.  5 gallon pails are about $18.50 per gallon + shipping from New Jersey.  I think it is significantly less than that if you can buy a 55 gallon drum, or a 275 gallon tote.  

You might check woodworking or woodturning clubs in your area.  Some of them buy in bulk and resell to members.  Of course, if you knew someone driving through Jersey...
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Re: anchorseal
« Reply #26 on: February 09, 2019, 12:57:32 AM »
No, Woodcraft only sells quarts and gallons.  I think that is all that most of UC Coatings' dealers carry.  5 gallon pails are about $18.50 per gallon + shipping from New Jersey.  I think it is significantly less than that if you can buy a 55 gallon drum, or a 275 gallon tote.  

You might check woodworking or woodturning clubs in your area.  Some of them buy in bulk and resell to members.  Of course, if you knew someone driving through Jersey...
i had 2 soldiers that live/ed in jersey, 1 was a city slicker, the other, a country bumpkin. but don't know anyone driving through there. i will hit my step dad up and see if he makes flat bed runs up there. i have seen others commenting, complaining the price for it has gone up, or shipping has gone up, 1 or both. amazon sells it, and when was looking at using it, they were more expensive, even with shipping from jersey. but now it may be cheaper that from the manufacturer. idk. iv been using bees wax and linseed oil. it gives the walnut and pecan a BEAUTIFUL coloring on the end cuts. but some have have mentioned to shy away from the oil, as customers might not want the oil in their slabs. so its been plain ole' wax for the last few pecans. 
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Re: anchorseal
« Reply #27 on: February 10, 2019, 08:17:49 PM »
One desirable characteristic of an end coating is that it does not carry over and cause problems in subsequent processing of the lumber into furniture, cabinets, etc.   A wax, for example, that does not  evaporate, causes severe finishing issues.  

So, this means that the coating must be very hard so it can be cut off, or it must evaporate around 130 F.  Anchorseal evaporates.  Some waxes may carry over. Roofing tar hardens.
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Re: anchorseal
« Reply #28 on: February 12, 2019, 05:08:27 AM »
Shipping was the killer, last time I paid $34 bucks for a $93 bucket, December 27.  That seemed extremely high considering shipping used to be free, considering I purchase several 5 gallon buckets at the same time.

I use the pump up backpack sprayer sold by anchor seal and there is no cleanup.  I love it.  Every now and them I remove the tip and blow it out with an air compressor.  Thats the great thing about Anchorseal, spray it and stick the sprayer under the workbench until the next time.  

Some of the other sealers will actually dry or cure, and cleanup can be a major headache and time consumer.  
Robert, I have a couple of those back pack sprayers for around my place here. Are they the same ones like you get at Lowes or HD? Any different nozzle?
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Re: anchorseal
« Reply #29 on: February 12, 2019, 10:35:49 AM »
I donít know, probably.  I didnít like how fast the and clumpy the UC backbpack sprayer just belched out the Anchorseal, like a hose, it was like they wanted it to spray fast so I would have to order more!  So I went to Tractor Supply and bought a smaller orifice brass round spray tip and screwed it on.  Then I cut the Anchorseal by 10% maybe 20%, make it more like the consistency of latex paint, so the smaller tip would atomize better.  

Works great now.  Very fast and much better than anything else weíve tried, including our power sprayer.  What used to take a significant time, gets done quick, we maybe sprayed 5-6 MBF of lumber packs Saturday, and my helper was spraying it as fast as I could forklift it to the air drying pad.  By the time I got back with the forklift, the next pallet was sprayed.  Also, since itís a spray, I donít spray logs anymore, I mill the logs raw ended, put the best section in the pallet, and then pack saw the waste ends off.  Then we simply spray the ends of the palletized lumber.  

I never clean the sprayer, havenít cleaned it since we bought it, however, every now and then the outside of the spray tip gets clogged so before each session when I walk by the air compressor, I use the blow gun and blow any residue off the tip.


https://uccoatings.com/videos/

You can see from the video of the backpack sprayer, the stream is a little too narrow and heavy.  So spraying the product isnít the issue, itís slowing it down and getting a better, wider fan pattern.  
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Re: anchorseal
« Reply #30 on: February 12, 2019, 01:10:43 PM »
the home owner sprayer I bough at Lowes just spit a stream no matter what pressure or nozzle adjustment.  i bought online a fan type nozzle and it did not help.  i did not try to thin it.  did you just use water?  I got the HF 150 dollar airless and it works great.  a roller tended to waste a bit as well, I know it needs to go on thick or multi coats.

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Re: anchorseal
« Reply #31 on: February 12, 2019, 01:38:04 PM »
Ok, I'm going to say my peace once with regards to the cost of Anchorseal.  ;D As far as I know, there isn't another product that works as well as Anchorseal.  

If Anchorseal is $95 for 5 gallons plus shipping....Let's call it $130.  
If a 5 gallon pail will do 100 average logs. (Which is likely from my experience if not more)
If an average log has 100 board feet.

Then, $130/100 logs= $1.30/log.
Then, $1.30/100 BF =  $.013/BF

If you sell lumber at $2/BF, a 1.3 cent per board foot expense is almost negligible.  
If your wood sells for $2/BF and the Anchorseal saves 1 BF per log.  It's made you $.70 you wouldn't have made without it.  So do you see my point here?  All it has to do is save you at least one BF per log to pay for itself.  Actually if you want to be technical it only has to save you one board foot every 1.54 logs to pay for itself.

So why would one look for a cheaper alternative that may not work as well?  What if the Anchorseal saves 5 BF per log?  I think the saying is pennywise and pound foolish?

I do see why this is an issue for people who do NOT sell wood.  If you're just cutting as a hobby and not making any money, then it seems like $130 for 5 gallon Anchorseal is a big expense.  Am I wrong or crazy or both?  Those who know me on here, know I try to stimulate good discussion, I'm not angry, I do not take offense easily at all, nor do I intend to offend.  I just speak plainly and what I'm thinking.  So know that I will not be offended by any response even if you tell me I'm wrong.  I hope I did my math right!;D
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Re: anchorseal
« Reply #32 on: February 12, 2019, 02:28:34 PM »
I see reference to coating log ends being beneficial in some species and perhaps less so in others.  Question:  Is this due to the "other species" not checking/cracking, whether end-sealed or not....or is this more to do with perceived log value, ie. that nice piece of cherry is worth more than equivalent stick of pine?

I expect the first major species I will be sawing in any kind of volume will be larch.  That is, of course, a pine-family member.  Would it be recommended that one coat larch log ends?  In that scenario, I would be making decking boards, bevel siding, and perhaps interior paneling.

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Re: anchorseal
« Reply #33 on: February 12, 2019, 03:10:21 PM »
I have used it and it does help, esp. logs in a pile that I have not cut yet, waiting on a project.  i am no expert, but I believe it is best for hardwoods, and more important in some species due to tendency to degrade.  i will again invoke the spirit of @GeneWengert-WoodDoc to correct me if i am wrong.  Brad, i don't know you personally yet, but enjoy your comments.  i don't think you are angry or wrong, just crazy!!!   lol.  That is a complement coming from me.  i get some logs that are already badly cracked on side and ends and i don't bother coating them and they will be used for rustic stuff.

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Re: anchorseal
« Reply #34 on: February 12, 2019, 04:14:35 PM »
Anchorseal makes a big difference on some species of hardwood, to the point I wouldnít saw lumber without having some to immediately coat the ends.  Been there, done that.  Oaks, walnut, cherry, sassafras, hickory, will degrade significantly without it.  Pine, itís not very prone.  Cedar, not so much.  Walnut, put two coats on.  Poplar in the winter, nope, Poplar in the summer, better hose it on.  We mill and sell about 20 different species of hardwood plus pine and cedar, and I am ďluckyĒ in that I see the results of my mistakes quickly.  Just like in the old West where cowboys fed their horses before themselves, applying Anchorseal is about the same.  Buck the log, cut the board, put on a coat of the stuff before anything else happens.  Even a day delay will make a difference.  

Referring to degrade and loss of value, if a 96 inch board cracks 2 to 3 inches per end without it, and virtually no cracks with it, then the difference could well be 6 inches of saved wood per board, which is about 6% savings, when considering a high value species such as walnut, which we sell at $8.50 per bdft foot.  So there is a significant savings. Thatís why we use it.  

However, like all input costs on my sawmill operation, I am always looking at other alternatives, especially when one of my input items jumps price overnight, and itís a critical item to my operation. Even though itís a relatively small cost, for me about $250 per month, some months less, some much higher, depending on whatís coming off the mill and the season.  Iíve gone through 5 gallons a day, and sometimes had 5 gallons last me a couple weeks.  For me, a 30% price increases on that one cost will trigger my gag reflex, and I start doing my homework and start searching for alternatives.  $300 a month was the trigger point when I started sharpening bands in-house.  Doesnít mean I will find a better substitute, but if I donít start looking, I will never know.  In this case, the simple alternative may be simply to purchase bulk.  Probabaly is. It may also be there is a better product.  Iíve found a lot of good alternatives to existing status quo items by asking.

I have tried both a Graco high pressure wand sprayer, as well as the smaller Graco hand sprayer and I dislike having to clean them.  I leaned a painful lesson by not cleaning my big Graco and the pressure bypass check valve got ruined.  Lesson learned.  A pump up sprayer for me, falls into simpler, better, works good enough and is one less thing for me to worry about.

To the point of usefulness, Anchorseal does have the advantage of evaporating in the kiln, which also saves me from having to end trim boards.  

The best end sealer Iíve used was when I accidentally dropped the end of a board in cow poop.  I donít know if it stopped the cracking, but nobody ever wanted to look at the end, even though it was a pretty green.  

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Offline Southside logger

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Re: anchorseal
« Reply #35 on: February 12, 2019, 04:23:27 PM »
Hammer - what was old #7 doing in the mill shed anyway?  :D
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Offline GeneWengert-WoodDoc

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Re: anchorseal
« Reply #36 on: February 12, 2019, 05:40:30 PM »
I did research with Anchorseal on sugar maple logs and red oak logs.  It virtually eliminated all drying checks during 3 months of summertime log storage.  It did not control stress splits, which are those that are over 1/2 wide at the end.

The plastic log end split control devices from UC Coating does a good job on preventing most stress related splits in large timbers if applied ASAP.  They are especially useful and effective for ties, as large splits can disqualify a timber from being a tie, with a big loss of value.

When spraying Anchorseal, it is very easy to put on too little coating, especially on the edges.
Gene - Author of articles in Sawmill & Woodlot and books: Drying Hardwood Lumber; VA Tech Solar Kiln; Sawing Edging & Trimming Hardwood Lumber. And more

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Re: anchorseal
« Reply #37 on: February 12, 2019, 07:12:06 PM »
IDRY Vacum Kiln, LT40HDWide, BMS250 sharpener/setter 742b Bobcat, TCM forklift, Sthil 026,038, 461. 1952 TEA Fergusan Tractor

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Re: anchorseal
« Reply #38 on: February 12, 2019, 07:57:24 PM »
Sounds plusable.  New management and a revision of pricing. 
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Re: anchorseal
« Reply #39 on: February 13, 2019, 08:49:00 AM »
Thanks fellows.  I should have said that, even though a  pine-family member, larch wood is much more dense than any pine.  It is actually  a very hard "softwood" and useful for a wide array of items.  Just never got a grade stamp.  But not all that much like "pine wood".

tom


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