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Author Topic: My Bar Nose Came Apart!  (Read 1245 times)

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Offline lxskllr

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My Bar Nose Came Apart!
« on: February 01, 2019, 04:05:39 PM »
Y'all ever have that happen? I was cutting vines with my cs400 again today, and pushing through lunch. I wanted to completely use up my chain so I could get rid of it. Seemed like there always one more sharpening left; suitable for vines anyway... Finally got too tired, I decided the chain was done, and was heading back to the truck, cutting some vines as I went. Ended up throwing a chain, and that cemented my doneness. I was gonna clean everything up, and get lunch. Took the b&c off, cleaned the saw, and went to clean the bar groove, and saw the nose was pulled apart, and probably missing bearings from the sprocket. Dunno if throwing the chain caused it, or it caused the chain to throw, but here I am with a broken bar...


I reluctantly ordered a WoodlandPro broad nose bar, and 25' of WoodLandPro lopro semichisel chain. I figured the bar could hardly be worse than the echo I overpaid for at homedepot, and the chain might be good for beater duty. We'll see...

Offline ehp

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Re: My Bar Nose Came Apart!
« Reply #1 on: February 01, 2019, 08:16:06 PM »
I use to buy bar tips at  10 at a time , snow and cold bar tips just do not like . I have found the more power engine makes the more bar tips your going to use ;D, It happens to the best of us

Offline lxskllr

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Re: My Bar Nose Came Apart!
« Reply #2 on: February 01, 2019, 08:29:59 PM »
I was surprised at how fast it went. I've only run 1.2 chains on the bar, Didn't do much boring, and most of the paint's still on it. It looks good except for the sprocket cocked in the nose  :^D

Offline HolmenTree

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Re: My Bar Nose Came Apart!
« Reply #3 on: February 01, 2019, 09:08:40 PM »
Sounds like you had a kickback when you threw your chain. Hard enough impact the sprocket nose spreads releasing some of those tiny roller bearings. Cheaper laminated bars are bad for that. 
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

Offline lxskllr

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Re: My Bar Nose Came Apart!
« Reply #4 on: February 01, 2019, 09:16:39 PM »
I'm hoping this WoodlandPro bar will at least be acceptable, but it's still a laminated bar; made in Taiwan I believe. I'd spring for a pro bar, but they don't seem to make them for consumer saws. I'd love to have something like a Sugihara light bar on my cs400, and especially for my new cs2511t. I /could/ get one for the 2511, but I'd have to change everything to a different style of chain, and I'd like to stick with 3/8lopro, at least for the time being.

Offline John Mc

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Re: My Bar Nose Came Apart!
« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2019, 12:34:03 PM »
Throwing chain can contribute to it, as can running your chain too tight. Did you crank up the chain tension due to the fact that cutting vines was causing you to throw chains?
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

Offline Tasha

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Re: My Bar Nose Came Apart!
« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2019, 01:01:44 PM »
Sounds like you had a kickback when you threw your chain. Hard enough impact the sprocket nose spreads releasing some of those tiny roller bearings. Cheaper laminated bars are bad for that.
As a little bit of thread drift. 
HolmenTree: Can you get tip replacements for Stihl ES (ROLLOMATIC E Super ) bars in Canada easily anymore.  How about tip sprockets for non ES bars (ROLLOMATIC E).  My dealer could not even find the part number in his Stihl parts catalog.  Says that the price of a tip replacement 5 years ago was nearly the cost of a new bar.  Find it hard to believe but we have become such a throw away society that you never know.
Oregon still has bar nose tip replacements but it seems that Stihl is now a problem down here.

Offline lxskllr

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Re: My Bar Nose Came Apart!
« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2019, 01:17:42 PM »
Throwing chain can contribute to it, as can running your chain too tight. Did you crank up the chain tension due to the fact that cutting vines was causing you to throw chains?
Nah, tension was /probably/ pretty good. I say probably cause I quit checking due to the day finishing out. It /may/ have been a little slack, but definitely not tight.
OT, but I also got to use the winter setting on the saw. I never set the shutters on my saws before. Never had an issue, so I didn't bother. I had stopped to refuel and file the chain. When I started it again, the saw ran like crap. I guessed carb icing, so I looked it up online to find where the winter shutter was on this. Glad I checked first. I started taking the top cover off, and it didn't have cam lock screws. That seemed harder than it should be. Turns out it's under the air filter cover. A rubber plug that's easy to move. 10 minutes later, it was back to running well.

Offline HolmenTree

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Re: My Bar Nose Came Apart!
« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2019, 02:45:23 PM »
Sounds like you had a kickback when you threw your chain. Hard enough impact the sprocket nose spreads releasing some of those tiny roller bearings. Cheaper laminated bars are bad for that.
As a little bit of thread drift.  
HolmenTree: Can you get tip replacements for Stihl ES (ROLLOMATIC E Super ) bars in Canada easily anymore.  How about tip sprockets for non ES bars (ROLLOMATIC E).  My dealer could not even find the part number in his Stihl parts catalog.  Says that the price of a tip replacement 5 years ago was nearly the cost of a new bar.  Find it hard to believe but we have become such a throw away society that you never know.
Oregon still has bar nose tip replacements but it seems that Stihl is now a problem down here.
Stihl Rollomatic ES detachable sprocket noses can be ordered through your Stihl  dealer last I checked.
Not sure about the Rollomatic E sprocket nose repair kit.
Here's a part # for you. This is for .050 E bars. 3/8"
#3003 650 9908


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Offline lxskllr

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Re: My Bar Nose Came Apart!
« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2019, 05:38:11 PM »
Played with my broken bar for a couple minutes today. I pushed the bearings in with my knife, and it popped back into shape. Probably missing some bearings, but I think I can get a bit more life out of it for beater duty. Question...


How would I tighten up the nose? It's a single rivet on the sprocket. Maybe give that a couple whacks with a ball peen hammer? Will that tighten it up?

Offline Tasha

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Re: My Bar Nose Came Apart!
« Reply #10 on: February 06, 2019, 10:05:09 PM »
Stihl Rollomatic ES detachable sprocket noses can be ordered through your Stihl  dealer last I checked.
Not sure about the Rollomatic E sprocket nose repair kit.
Here's a part # for you. This is for .050 E bars.
#3003 650 9908

(Image hidden from quote, click to view.)

Thanks for the part number for the E bar 0.050.  3/8 or 0.325????  Can't tell from photo and I think there is a difference.
My dealer said the sprocket nose part was not in the catalog.  Maybe a US vs Canada catalog issue.  
Do you have a part number for the 0.050 ES bar replacement tip?

Offline LeeB

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Re: My Bar Nose Came Apart!
« Reply #11 on: February 06, 2019, 10:28:57 PM »
Played with my broken bar for a couple minutes today. I pushed the bearings in with my knife, and it popped back into shape. Probably missing some bearings, but I think I can get a bit more life out of it for beater duty. Question...


How would I tighten up the nose? It's a single rivet on the sprocket. Maybe give that a couple whacks with a ball peen hammer? Will that tighten it up?
You will likely end up with a junk chain to go along with your junk bar.
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Offline HolmenTree

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Re: My Bar Nose Came Apart!
« Reply #12 on: February 06, 2019, 10:49:10 PM »
Stihl Rollomatic ES detachable sprocket noses can be ordered through your Stihl  dealer last I checked.
Not sure about the Rollomatic E sprocket nose repair kit.
Here's a part # for you. This is for .050 E bars.
#3003 650 9908

(Image hidden from quote, click to view.)

Thanks for the part number for the E bar 0.050.  3/8 or 0.325????  Can't tell from photo and I think there is a difference.
My dealer said the sprocket nose part was not in the catalog.  Maybe a US vs Canada catalog issue.  
Do you have a part number for the 0.050 ES bar replacement tip?
It's 3/8"
No # It's been 20 years since I last changed a ES tip. Good Stihl dealer will find you one.
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

Offline lxskllr

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Re: My Bar Nose Came Apart!
« Reply #13 on: February 07, 2019, 05:53:02 AM »
Played with my broken bar for a couple minutes today. I pushed the bearings in with my knife, and it popped back into shape. Probably missing some bearings, but I think I can get a bit more life out of it for beater duty. Question...


How would I tighten up the nose? It's a single rivet on the sprocket. Maybe give that a couple whacks with a ball peen hammer? Will that tighten it up?
You will likely end up with a junk chain to go along with your junk bar.
I've got 25' of junk chain coming aside from the loops I already have. I'm pretty good in that regard  ;^)
I'm anticipating the new bar that's coming will work better for serious use, and it'll get my good Stihl chain, but in the meantime, those vines aren't gonna cut themselves, and they won't get cut with Stihl unless I find an amazing deal somewhere, hence the question. That center rivet is what holds the whole mess together, right? IOW, there's room for adjustment?

Offline lxskllr

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Re: My Bar Nose Came Apart!
« Reply #14 on: February 11, 2019, 09:03:50 PM »

I've got 25' of junk chain coming aside from the loops I already have. I'm pretty good in that regard  ;^)
I'm anticipating the new bar that's coming will work better for serious use, and it'll get my good Stihl chain, but in the meantime, those vines aren't gonna cut themselves, and they won't get cut with Stihl unless I find an amazing deal somewhere, hence the question. That center rivet is what holds the whole mess together, right? IOW, there's room for adjustment?
Got my b&c today. Saw's at work, so I haven't been able to try it, but I'm already disappointed. While researching what people think of the chain I ran across a Tsumura bar for the same price I paid for the WoodlandPro  :^D  Oh well. The WP bar seems alright. It looks at least as good as my HomeDepot echo branded bar, and ~$15 cheaper, but the proof is in the cutting. If anyone else is interested in a Tsumura bar (supposedly)compatible with small consumer saws like echo and Poulan, the link I found is here...
https://archerplus.com/collections/guide-bars/products/16-tsumura-guide-bar-repl-echo-poulan-efco160sdea041-3-8lp-050-57dl-wildthing
I believe this is a fairly new webshop by an ebay seller that deals primarily in archer chain. I have no experience, but others seem happy with their ebay purchases. That's the bar I would have gotten had I seen it earlier.
The chain is WoodlandPro which is Carlton in a different box. Looks like chain. Nothing particularly interesting about its appearance, but it looks more "primitive" than the Oregon and Stihl chain I've used. No fancy oiling technology or anything. I'm kind of anxious to try it out. I've come to dislike the Oregon chain; at least the lowpro I've used, and I'm hoping this is better. I have some Stihl chain I'm saving for good stuff, but want something for rough stuff(like the vines I've been cutting), so it isn't a heartbreak when I stick the bar in a rock or something. Reports are mixed on the Carlton chain. Brits seem to hate it, while Americans range from love it to like it well enough for the price. Curious there's such a wide discrepancy.

Offline Air Lad

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Re: My Bar Nose Came Apart!
« Reply #15 on: February 13, 2019, 05:40:32 AM »
Tsumura is Japanese I think and good quality steel by all accounts.
Hope the vines are starting to feel the sting of the zing zing
Is burning an option?
Good luck mate
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Offline lxskllr

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Re: My Bar Nose Came Apart!
« Reply #16 on: February 13, 2019, 10:00:05 AM »
Can't burn them. They're all in trees that are being kept. I complain about it a bit, but it isn't bad work. Starts off a little rough, but I get into it once I've started. I enjoy hearing their little screams when I cut into them  :^P  I've gotten most of the "nurseries"(the mondo mama vines) cut. Still have a bit left, but then it'll be machete work once things start greening up, and I can see what's around.


 I don't have to do any of it, but I'm getting paid to run a saw, and I'm hoping I can get things noticeably prettied up. What really needs to be done is my boss should take his skid loader and drag everything out of the hedgerows, and burn them. Same with the woods, but maybe no burning. Once there's good paths to walk, it'll be manageable for a person on foot to keep thing under control. It's a losing battle in any case, but you do what you can. This part of the county is overrun with vines, so even getting any one property cleaned you'll still have intrusions from the outside. I don't know how people can look out their back windows, see vines pulling down trees, and not do something about it  :^/

Offline lxskllr

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Re: My Bar Nose Came Apart!
« Reply #17 on: February 19, 2019, 07:47:36 PM »
An update... I tried tightening up the sprocket rivet. Seemed to work. I made it a hair too tight if anything, but not too bad. It seemed to spin without any eccentric wobble or anything. I put my old chain back on that I threw, sharpened up as well as I could, and got back to cutting vines. It lasted ~45 minutes, and I threw the chain. Looked at the nose, and the sprocket disappeared into the bar  :^D Oh well, I tried. The teeth on the chain were ~2mm wide, and it's now in a pond. I think I got my money out of that. I'll inspect the bar when I get a chance, just to see how it all goes together, but it'll just get squirreled away to use for /something/ that isn't on a saw. Not sure what. I could make a sharpening jig or something, but I just sharpen the chain on the saw. Maybe a good use will come in the future.


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