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Author Topic: Bandsaw mill build  (Read 1620 times)

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Offline TreeStandHunter

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Bandsaw mill build
« on: February 02, 2019, 10:49:23 AM »
I figure with all of the questions I am going to need help with i mine aswell make one topic and ask them all in here as they come up. This way I am not starting a new thread for every question. 

I live in Michigan in 10 acres and have been wanting a mill for a few years now. I plan to build it stationary on concrete piers and mill trees from my property to build a barn around the mill so that I can use it indoors and have a heated space in the winter. Hoping to make the mill electric So I can run it indoors.

I am currently on the gathering stage of this build and have so far accumulated all of the steel that I will need as well as a few other odds and ends. 

Now onto my first question...I have a 10hp three phase motor that actually came off an lt-15. I do not have three phase power... looking at this tag on the motor can anyone help me in the right direction of what sizes VFD I will need to power it? I know that I could get a rotary converter but from what i have seen the cost on those is pretty high compared to a VFD.

Here is the plate on the motor:


 

In the process of building my own mill.

Online muggs

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Re: Bandsaw mill build
« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2019, 03:20:02 PM »
I think you are going to find that you need about a 20 HP VFD after the derating for single phase. The manufactur can tell you.    Muggs

Offline charles mann

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Re: Bandsaw mill build
« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2019, 03:31:45 PM »
im with Muggs, contact the manufacture. its their product, they should know better than most any else, what is required. you could even contact the VFD manufactures and explain what you have and what you are wanting to do and see if they have viable solution. google is friend too.  
Temple, Tx
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Offline charles mann

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Re: Bandsaw mill build
« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2019, 03:36:20 PM »
about 30 sec searching on google. look at the vfd section, it even brings in a 10 hp motor as an example. 

How to properly operate a three-phase motor using single-phase power - Plant Engineering
Temple, Tx
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Offline thecfarm

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Re: Bandsaw mill build
« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2019, 05:28:06 PM »
I always say make it long.  ;)  Much easier to have more track,than just a few inches more. Mine mill will cut a 20 foot log. I can roll a 16 foot log on and have plenty of room on both ends.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Offline TreeStandHunter

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Re: Bandsaw mill build
« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2019, 06:54:08 PM »
The Cfarm, its going to be around 24 of track. I probably will never use the full length but it will be nice to have if I need it.

I did a few google searches prior to asking here and did not find that specific site. I will contact the manufacturer as well to see what they have to say, thanks for the tips everyone.
In the process of building my own mill.

Offline charles mann

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Re: Bandsaw mill build
« Reply #6 on: February 04, 2019, 02:48:21 PM »
Curious as to what you found out for the best vfd for your application to fit your motor
Temple, Tx
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Offline TreeStandHunter

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Re: Bandsaw mill build
« Reply #7 on: February 05, 2019, 05:16:00 PM »
I think I am going to end up with a Hitachi SJ700 that is rated for 15hp. I talked to an electrician at work and he said I should sell the 3 phase and buy a single phase 10hp if I want electric. So my motor choice is still up in the air.

On a side note I scored big at work today. Got these 10.5 long bunks from a toboggan run that they tore down. 3/16 galvanized tubing so I think I found my new track/bunk.


 

I was planning on using this trailer for it but this will be a nice upgrade.


In the process of building my own mill.

Offline charles mann

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Re: Bandsaw mill build
« Reply #8 on: February 06, 2019, 01:04:52 AM »
good deal on the power system, if you stay with the 3ph. I'm NO spark chaser, but from reading what these guys say about 110v ac drawing 2x the power as 220, stay with 220. im sure you will have it on a pot so you can adjust the speed during start up/shut down, but would a soft start be better than a stand alone pot? 

good score on the reclaimed frame/bunks. iv missed out on several scores at work bc i didn't my tck, and the guy that drive in, get to take hm the prices. I'm waiting on the long lines to get inspected, and if 1 doesn't pass, iv got someone that will "secure" it for me, just gotta drive to id to get it.
Temple, Tx
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Offline Crusarius

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Re: Bandsaw mill build
« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2019, 07:57:17 AM »
I run a VFD on my vertical mill. Why the aversion to a VFD?

Offline TreeStandHunter

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Re: Bandsaw mill build
« Reply #10 on: February 06, 2019, 08:27:29 AM »
I run a VFD on my vertical mill. Why the aversion to a VFD?
The electrician I know just made the point that since I have to purchase the VFD than I might as well purchase a single phase 10hp motor since they will be near the same cost and just remove the VFD from the system. 
In the process of building my own mill.

Offline Crusarius

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Re: Bandsaw mill build
« Reply #11 on: February 06, 2019, 08:33:53 AM »
My old vertical mill I used to run a static converter. When I changed up to the one I have now I purchased a VFD instead. The VFD was $10 more than the static converter. Ebay has some pretty good prices on VFD's. My 5 hp VFD cost $60.

Offline wisconsitom

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Re: Bandsaw mill build
« Reply #12 on: February 06, 2019, 08:54:04 AM »
I'm in a similar place-wanting to eventually end up with an electrically-powered mill.  I am finding this info helpful, as in a different thread, I was urged to go with a rotary phase converter.  Looking at some of those online made my wallet hurt from inside my pants pocket.  If VFD can work-and it sure looks like it can, then that's a cheaper option.

Thanks,
tom

Offline boardmaker

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Re: Bandsaw mill build
« Reply #13 on: February 06, 2019, 10:32:37 AM »
If you go the vfd route, you will have total speed control.  So if for any reason you decide to try a different band speed, it would be very easy.  You also have very detailed overload protection.  Also, the VFD will start very smooth with a little programming.

Offline wisconsitom

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Re: Bandsaw mill build
« Reply #14 on: February 06, 2019, 10:42:06 AM »
Thanks Boardmaker.  Perhaps you can clear something up for me;  Although possibly as much as 3 years away, I am planning a stationary installation up at my tree farm.  There, at present, there is single-phase service.  My question is, in selecting motor from WM, the saw rig I think I'm going to end up with, they offer both 3-phase and single-phase.  In my scenario, which one do I choose?  In reading about VFDs, it seems they can work with either, so long as other parameters are sized correctly.  And such a price swing!  What kind of cost am I looking at if I were to purchase a unit suitable for use with a WM 10-HP-rated motor?  No, I don't know the full load amps of said motor(s), but am seeking that info from manufacturer.

Thanks,
tom

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Re: Bandsaw mill build
« Reply #15 on: February 06, 2019, 11:26:04 AM »
If I was buying a mill from woodmizer and had the option I would not buy the 3 phase motor unless I had the power already.

The reason for me using the VFD is to replace that motor with single phase I was looking over $600. $60 into the VFD was a no brainer. But when ordering a mill the cost would probably not be much different?

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Re: Bandsaw mill build
« Reply #16 on: February 06, 2019, 12:17:12 PM »
I think you will find that a 10 hp single phase motor will pull about 50 amps at FLA .

Offline wisconsitom

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Re: Bandsaw mill build
« Reply #17 on: February 06, 2019, 12:26:53 PM »
Thanks Crusarius, but I remain confused.  A website I was just at said to use VFD "only" with 3-phase motors.  Meanwhile, I thought the reason, or one of the reasons, to use a VFD was because you had single-phase but wanted to show the motor on your saw 3-phase.  I'm clearly not getting this.  The good news is I've got lots of time, but I sure am getting contradictory answers. 

 In my initial post-not this thread-I was almost getting shouted at that it would be stupid to even think about running an electrically-powered mill if I don't have 3-phase power available at the site (I don't-it's single-phase).  Then somebody kindly suggested rotary phase converters...and when I priced those, my mill costs were suddenly going up exponentially.  Then, someone said use VFD.  So I looks at them online and wow.....huge price range, huge range of applications.  I get it that one needs to match motor info plate with specs for unit.....but still, not at all sure where I'm trying to get.  Sawmill manufacturer offers unit I'm interested in with single-phase or 3-phase motors.  Also not sure what's up with that.  Of course, again obviously, that would be a choice depending on what kind of power you've got.  But then reading specs for RPC'S and VFD's makes it seem-maybe-that I should run only 3-phase equip.  Again, that would seem to contradict the reason for installing the VFD or rotary phase converter in the first place.  To my confused mind, anyway!

I would like to some day be running an LT-15-like unit, with electric motor powering saw.  I will not initially need any additional powered devices off that circuit.  Of course, my needs may change later, and I wouldn't mind being set up for that eventuality.  But basically, I just want to power an LT-15 manual mill with electricity.  I can't tell for the life of me what  I should be seeking in terms of power, power handling and distribution, which motor to put on saw, etc.  Final note...building ain't built.  Probably going to be some combination of pole building, with enclosed, insulated "office" area with small living quarters.  Saw rig would be in "open" area, under roof.

Thanks,
tom

PS...thanks muggs.  Just saw your note.  Most helpful.

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Re: Bandsaw mill build
« Reply #18 on: February 06, 2019, 12:45:46 PM »
A VFD is not only a phase converter. it does so much more. Many ppl run them on single phase motors for speed control.

There are alot of uses for a VFD. I am not all that familiar with all of them all I know is they work great for 3 phase converter.

The way they work is by taking the sine wave of your single phase input and then converts it to a square wave. I have no idea where the third leg comes from but I know you are now using a square wave to power your equipment. The square wave frequency can be adjusted to speed up or slow down electric flow. This is great for drill presses that have single speeds or if you hate changing the stupid belts.

Youtube actually has a decent amount of good videos on VFD's. Many of which helped me understand they are more than just a phase converter.

Offline TreeStandHunter

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Re: Bandsaw mill build
« Reply #19 on: February 06, 2019, 01:32:18 PM »
I think you will find that a 10 hp single phase motor will pull about 50 amps at FLA .
I figured it would pull around double the 3 phase. I just need to keep an eye out for a VFD that will fit my application after it is derated. Also physically it will be much larger and that is another thing to consider.


Crusarius the VFD's for motors upto 5HP are very cost effective, after 5HP the price seems to jump dramatically and I dont want to get a cheap one that wont last long. Luckily time is on my side and I can keep an eye on one for a good buy, in the meantime I am going to work on assembling my track and carriage. I am excited to get on with the fabricating. Thanks for the suggestions, also on your sawmill build thread you had some great stuff on there that I will certainly use for referencing.
In the process of building my own mill.


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