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Author Topic: Bandsaw mill build  (Read 1588 times)

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Offline bwstout

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Re: Bandsaw mill build
« Reply #20 on: February 06, 2019, 01:38:07 PM »
I have the VFD on my drill press, exhaust fan and metal lathe however they only range from 1 hp to 3  hp for the small VFD cost is not to high. but I like them as stated you have variable speed on them.
home built mill

Offline Crusarius

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Re: Bandsaw mill build
« Reply #21 on: February 06, 2019, 01:39:47 PM »
I don't think VFD's get derated. Static phase converters derate the motor after it drops the third leg. VFD's do not drop the third leg.

Thanks for the kudos on the mill build, you have any questions I am happy to help. 


Offline boardmaker

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Re: Bandsaw mill build
« Reply #22 on: February 06, 2019, 02:49:49 PM »
You cannot use a vfd with a standard single phase motor.  If you get the 10hp single phase, just start it across the line with a starter/contactor.

In your case, I would probably just go single phase.  I don't think the extra speed control would be worth the $$$.

However if your already had the motor, I'd seriously look at a vfd. 

And for reference, the incoming supply feeds the vfd's internal power supply.  It builds the sine wave by dc spikes.  That's called the carrier frequency.  Crazy to think that the AC is converted to DC and then it uses the DC to rebuild the AC sine wave.  Could be anywhere for 6,000 to 12,000 or more spikes per second. 

Offline wisconsitom

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Re: Bandsaw mill build
« Reply #23 on: February 07, 2019, 09:54:05 AM »
Thank you boardmaker and all.  So if I were to purchase a mill with a 10-HP electric motor, and the manufacturer of the mill offers either single-phase or 3-phase versions of same motor...and I have single-phase wiring coming to my pole.....am I wishing to purchase the 3-phase version, then go with an appropriately-rated VFD to show that motor 3-phase supply?

Or do I go with the single-phase motor and just wire normally?  At the onset of a similar thread, I was warned repeatedly that that would not work well.

Thanks,
tom

Offline Crusarius

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Re: Bandsaw mill build
« Reply #24 on: February 07, 2019, 10:11:17 AM »
3 phase is definitely more efficient. But if you are not wired for it, it is an additional expense and more hardware to fail.

My opinion is get the single phase. It won't be as efficient as 3 phase but there is less other stuff to buy and break.

Offline wisconsitom

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Re: Bandsaw mill build
« Reply #25 on: February 07, 2019, 10:23:19 AM »
Thanks crusarius.  I have just gotten off the phone with my electric power provider and learned a few things;  Firstly, that is definitely single-phase out on that road.  This individual states that the power co. will have no issues with a 10HP-rated motor on a device.  He did say one could use an electronic soft start, which is a dumbed-down VFD, to start the motor.  No need for variable power control in a bandsaw-just run at full power usually.  I could go on to add planer, resaw...etc...so long as just one device was ever getting used at a time.  Those devices are normally run at full speed as well.  He did suggest installing sufficiently-beefy panel, transformer, etc. initially to avoid upgrade costs in that arena later.  Makes sense.

Now I'm wondering why 6 or 8 guys were almost shouting at me in a different thread that I'd need a rotary phase converter to even think about this working out.  Not at all the picture I'm getting from power co. guy.

Thanks,
tom

Offline Crusarius

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Re: Bandsaw mill build
« Reply #26 on: February 07, 2019, 10:30:02 AM »
Truth is 3 phase is superior. But it comes at a cost. My personal preference is less things to break and less things to buy = smarter decision and more money for other toys :)

K.I.S.S.

Offline boardmaker

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Re: Bandsaw mill build
« Reply #27 on: February 07, 2019, 02:12:09 PM »
AS far as I know, there are not any single phase soft starts available.  And if there are, don't use one.  If you lower the voltage, you will lower the available starting torque.  And if the motor stalls, your starting switch will not survive. 

Offline Crusarius

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Re: Bandsaw mill build
« Reply #28 on: February 07, 2019, 02:16:08 PM »
The soft start capacitor on the hydraulic pump on our rescue truck is a terrible thing!!!

after so many starts the capacitor will blow. its a real PITA changing it. It is the hydraulic pump for the jaws of life. Needless to say we carry a portable unit on the truck for just such an occasion.


Offline scrout

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Re: Bandsaw mill build
« Reply #29 on: February 07, 2019, 02:32:40 PM »
If you google Matt Cremona, he used a 10 HP motor with 10 HP VFD and saws everything without too much of a problem.   The bad part about a 10 hp single phase is the tremendous input current rush at starting so you have to have a higher capacity system.  The VFD is soft start, so no clutch needed or anything and starting is easy on components.
The 10HP chinese Huanyang VFD is $265 on Amazon.  The sawmill load would not be something difficult for a VFD, as long as you don't fill it up with sawdust.
You should be able to find a 10 HP 3 ph motor for pretty cheap used.
A VFD system would be easier to run off a generator too if you need to go mobile.

Offline TreeStandHunter

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Re: Bandsaw mill build
« Reply #30 on: February 07, 2019, 02:38:23 PM »
If you google Matt Cremona, he used a 10 HP motor with 10 HP VFD and saws everything without too much of a problem.   The bad part about a 10 hp single phase is the tremendous input current rush at starting so you have to have a higher capacity system.  The VFD is soft start, so no clutch needed or anything and starting is easy on components.
The 10HP chinese Huanyang VFD is $265 on Amazon.  The sawmill load would not be something difficult for a VFD, as long as you don't fill it up with sawdust.
You should be able to find a 10 HP 3 ph motor for pretty cheap used.
A VFD system would be easier to run off a generator too if you need to go mobile.
I followed Mattís build but was not aware that he used a 10hp VFD for his 10hp motor. I am going to comment on his latest vid and find out exactly what he used because I am under the impression that with single phase input you must use a VFD that is rated for higher HP because of amperage.
In the process of building my own mill.

Online charles mann

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Re: Bandsaw mill build
« Reply #31 on: February 07, 2019, 07:35:00 PM »
If you google Matt Cremona, he used a 10 HP motor with 10 HP VFD and saws everything without too much of a problem.   The bad part about a 10 hp single phase is the tremendous input current rush at starting so you have to have a higher capacity system.  The VFD is soft start, so no clutch needed or anything and starting is easy on components.
The 10HP chinese Huanyang VFD is $265 on Amazon.  The sawmill load would not be something difficult for a VFD, as long as you don't fill it up with sawdust.
You should be able to find a 10 HP 3 ph motor for pretty cheap used.
A VFD system would be easier to run off a generator too if you need to go mobile.
I followed Mattís build but was not aware that he used a 10hp VFD for his 10hp motor. I am going to comment on his latest vid and find out exactly what he used because I am under the impression that with single phase input you must use a VFD that is rated for higher HP because of amperage.
He has a whole section within his build playlist that covers the vfd. He bought the wrong 1 at first, bought a sec 1 that had a board burned out, luckily the first vfd had the same board and he seapped it out. Then had issues with programming it and finally got it working. 
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Online charles mann

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Re: Bandsaw mill build
« Reply #32 on: February 07, 2019, 09:01:41 PM »
@TreeStandHunter 

here is Matt Cremona's motor section of his build. it is "episode" 11 of the 24 episode build. 

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Offline TreeStandHunter

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Re: Bandsaw mill build
« Reply #33 on: February 07, 2019, 10:38:34 PM »
Iíve watched all of his videos, a few several times. I went through the comments on his motor video and he stated to several people that it is a 15hp VFD. 
In the process of building my own mill.

Online charles mann

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Re: Bandsaw mill build
« Reply #34 on: February 07, 2019, 11:23:58 PM »
yes, he is using a 15 hp inverter. the sj700-110lfu designates 15 hp. 
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Offline wisconsitom

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Re: Bandsaw mill build
« Reply #35 on: February 08, 2019, 08:37:54 AM »
@ boardmaker;  So then if I understand correctly...I would select the WM model with the 3-phase motor....if my plan was to indeed use either a VFD or rotary converter, in my single-phase supply world, correct?

Again, this is all just fun speculation for me, and an opportunity to learn a tiny bit about electric power distribution.  But I sure enjoy the convo.

My Financial Director has not necessarily gotten on-board with the mill idea yet!

Thanks,
tom

Offline boardmaker

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Re: Bandsaw mill build
« Reply #36 on: February 09, 2019, 08:57:54 AM »
Yes.  

Offline TreeStandHunter

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Re: Bandsaw mill build
« Reply #37 on: February 11, 2019, 07:39:39 PM »
I had about 45 minutes to do some work before the kids got home from school so I started working on the track. I am hoping to come up with a way to scrap this trailer into a usable mobile track for the mill. The galvanized bunks I have are 3/16 tubing so any weight support will be done off that. The I-beam steel from this old trailer Iím going to mount off the side of the galvanized in two pieces, the first to use as the rail for the carriage to roll on and the second for the axle to mount to. Also Iíll be welding some plate steel to the sections of galvanized to make where they come together nice and strong. This first weld was just getting them lined up straight


 


 


 


 




In the process of building my own mill.

Offline Crusarius

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Re: Bandsaw mill build
« Reply #38 on: February 12, 2019, 07:31:33 AM »
Just fair warning. anything "I" shaped or "C" shaped will have a a tendency to twist. So make sure you support it properly. If your carriage rolls on the rails and they twist that makes for some very odd shaped lumber.

Offline TreeStandHunter

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Re: Bandsaw mill build
« Reply #39 on: February 16, 2019, 01:35:21 PM »
Thanks for the tip crusarious, I am going to make sure it is supported well and very solid. Iím going to purchase some angle iron for the carriage to roll on and mount it off the I-beams nice and true. Using scrap steel nothing is square so I am make this main track part and then will mount the log bunks to that square to the angle that the carriage will roll on, if that makes sense...anyways I got a little more done today, working here and there but made some decent progress today, Iím going to cut off the left leaf spring and only use the axle mount on the right side. This is my first ever welding project so itís definitely a learning experience. It will be mobile but only will move once or twice a year a few miles down the road to my fathers house.



 











 



 
In the process of building my own mill.


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