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Author Topic: How would you do it?  (Read 3155 times)

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Offline CabinCreations

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How would you do it?
« on: February 06, 2019, 11:08:35 AM »
Hey guys, I am beginning to think/dream up a new building for a portable sawmill. I'd be curious what your thoughts are on a layout. 

Here is what I need/want the building to function as: 

1. Mill Shed
2. Kiln (KD150 size)
3. Equipment Storage (Tractors, Implements, etc.)
4. Sawmill Storage/Sharpening Shed

A kiln and sharpening shed will (hopefully) come at a later date, but I would like to plan for it now so that I don't have to change things later. 

I have a separate, older building not far from where this building would stand for air drying lumber. 

Here is the catch, to avoid having to get a building permit I have to limit the building to 1,000 square feet. So am I thinking something like 32' x 30', but how would you lay this out? Or is trying to put all this under one roof not worth it? 

Below is my first crack at it: 



 

Thanks!
Kody

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Offline alan gage

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Re: How would you do it?
« Reply #1 on: February 06, 2019, 12:14:12 PM »
If you have to keep it under 1000 square feet the obvious answer to me would be multiple buildings. 

To me everything, with the possible exception of the sharpening room, looks too small. But it all depends on what you're storing, what you're sawing, and what your drying. But it also depends on what you might be doing in the future.

How much hassle does a building permit bring? Around here all it would mean would be $25 to the city.

Alan
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Offline CabinCreations

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Re: How would you do it?
« Reply #2 on: February 06, 2019, 12:34:36 PM »
Alan - Thanks for your reply. Multiple builds may be a better solution but I was hoping to cover as many bases as I could with the first build. This is a small operation with support equipment consisting of an atv/future tractor and a log arch. I got the kiln dimensions (roughly) from the build documented by Out the Woods (123Maxbars on the FF) who uses a KD150 kiln from Wood-Mizer.

A building permit around here also brings detailed plans and inspections throughout the build. I could go that route if I had to, but was trying to avoid it if possible.  

- Kody
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Offline doc henderson

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Re: How would you do it?
« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2019, 12:44:34 PM »
Hey CC.  In our town we need a permit over 100 sq. feet so a 10 x 10 garden shed.  I am sure you have done your homework, but just checking.  It used to be no big deal here, but they promoted a young kid and he likes to argue about everything to show that he is smarter than everyone else.  So I feel your pain.

Offline CabinCreations

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Re: How would you do it?
« Reply #4 on: February 06, 2019, 12:48:29 PM »
Hey Doc - I questioned the allowable square footage too because I thought that was a large building to not have inspected, but I did confirm it with the township so I am in the clear as long as the Zoning Permit is approved. But since they pretty much only look at setbacks from property lines for Zoning Permits, I should have no problem getting the go ahead. 
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Offline Iwawoodwork

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Re: How would you do it?
« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2019, 12:59:27 PM »
call it an "ag" building, in many areas there is very little requirements for ag buildings built for other than  human living quarters, see if that is less code issues.

Offline CabinCreations

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Re: How would you do it?
« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2019, 01:01:56 PM »
I'll have to ask about agriculture use. That may be a good work around. Thanks!
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Offline doc henderson

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Re: How would you do it?
« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2019, 01:10:41 PM »
Is any of this shop going to be heated or cooled.  Might want to consider having a free standing kiln to isolate heat and or moisture.  Would get more space and if there is no limit on building number or, percent of available land covered by buildings, you will gain a bit.  Also think about door size for equipment area and kiln.  Will there be large outside doors, or did you plan to bring everything through the building.  I assume the saw area is open faced?

Offline Tin Horse

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Re: How would you do it?
« Reply #8 on: February 06, 2019, 01:17:07 PM »
I'll have to ask about agriculture use. That may be a good work around. Thanks!
I went the "ag" route here in Ontario for my shop ( 28'x 30'). I started last spring and still not done. I'm guessing my building inspector will not be happy when he sees it finished. Then what? :-\
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Offline CabinCreations

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Re: How would you do it?
« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2019, 01:22:40 PM »
The kiln would be the only thing that would be heated in the future. I was thinking that with all the insulation and wrapping that would be installed around the kiln the moisture wouldn't be an issue. Any thoughts on that? 

I was planning two doors on the equipment area (basically a very small garage) and two doors on the kiln. The saw area would be open on the three exterior sides to allow easier moving of the mill and log loading.  
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Offline doc henderson

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Re: How would you do it?
« Reply #10 on: February 06, 2019, 01:22:55 PM »
I do not know about Canada, but here they could in theory, make you take it down.. More likely make repairs, and poss. just tell you not to do it again.  If you sell a property and there is a building inspection, and your building did not meet code (at the time it was built), it might mess with a buyers financing or they may ask for money to fix/bring up to code.  Of course the municipality wants the tax revenue.  

Offline CabinCreations

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Re: How would you do it?
« Reply #11 on: February 06, 2019, 01:25:05 PM »
Tin Horse - You have to get your 'ag' building inspected in Ontario? Our code says what Doc just mentioned. They could make me remove the building if it was completed before an inspector (if required) did their job. 
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Offline doc henderson

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Re: How would you do it?
« Reply #12 on: February 06, 2019, 01:29:22 PM »
Insulation only slows movement of heat.  According to recent posts a wood framed kiln structure should last about 20 years if properly built due to moisture and chemical liberated from the wood.  I will try to find some links for you but if you are in go mode you can search the forum.  the recent one was about using a mobile office trailer.  The wood Dr. Gene Wengert  has done research and written extensively in this area.  read or google Virginia tech solar kiln.  

Offline CabinCreations

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Re: How would you do it?
« Reply #13 on: February 06, 2019, 01:35:30 PM »
That's really interesting. I never considered chemicals released from the drying wood. I may re-consider placing the kiln under the same roof then. I sure would be disappointed if that part of the building only lasted 20 years and then the whole building had to be retrofitted. A stand alone kiln may be more reasonable. 

I will dig into that a little bit more, but that you for bringing it to my attention. 
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Offline doc henderson

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Re: How would you do it?
« Reply #14 on: February 06, 2019, 01:36:51 PM »
read Office Trailer Kiln.  also we can see if @GeneWengert-WoodDoc will weigh in.  

Offline doc henderson

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Re: How would you do it?
« Reply #15 on: February 06, 2019, 01:54:01 PM »
My mill will cut up to 21 feet, so when I build my kiln it will be at least 20 feet long to get say 18 foot boards in there.  Then depending on your design, prob. 8 or 10 feet wide.  You can go to Nyle and find there detailed plans on line.  They are a sponsor and have a tab on this page.  to the left side.  click resources, manuals, then n200 or the 53.  the first 20 pages are all about recommended construction of the chamber.  Their are Nyle reps on this site.  I called them the other day and the guy on the phone is on this site.  There is a welcome Nyle post that can get you to him/

Offline DPatton

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Re: How would you do it?
« Reply #16 on: February 06, 2019, 01:57:32 PM »
CabinCreations,

As it's been said on this forum many, many times. You can never build a shed too big. 
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Offline CabinCreations

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Re: How would you do it?
« Reply #17 on: February 06, 2019, 02:03:51 PM »
Doc - I will take a look at the Nyle site. I have look there before but must have overlooked the chamber construction in the manuals. 

DPatton - I agree. There is no such thing as a shed that is too big, so I guess my wallet is just to small  :'(
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Offline doc henderson

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Re: How would you do it?
« Reply #18 on: February 06, 2019, 02:07:38 PM »
CC.  that is why I had to call.  I assumed they reserved the plans for after you bought.  The chamber plans are part of the manual for the dehumidifier unit.  Best regards.

Offline tylerltr450

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Re: How would you do it?
« Reply #19 on: February 06, 2019, 02:23:52 PM »
I  think the sharpening shed is to small, those darn blades take up a lot of room when trying to sharpen and set next to each other. For my area I need a lot room and there is a lot of dead space due to the way the sharpening tools are setup. I converted my bench top to a mobile stand and I would never go back.
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Offline rubberfish

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Re: How would you do it?
« Reply #20 on: February 06, 2019, 02:24:43 PM »
CabinCreations,

As it's been said on this forum many, many times. You can never build a shed too big.
True that. When I bought my current home here in the city I thought the detached shop
(28X30) was frickin' huge. Now 12 years later I couldn't even swing a dead cat in there.
CC. It sounds like you're doing all your homework. Good on ya. Build as big as your wallet allows.  8)
Confucius says "He who stands with hands in pocket is feeling cocky"
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Offline doc henderson

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Re: How would you do it?
« Reply #21 on: February 06, 2019, 02:27:01 PM »
Office Trailer Kiln in Drying and Processing.  Tyler do you recommend long and skinny for the sharpening room.  what do you consider to be the ideal dimension

Offline doc henderson

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Re: How would you do it?
« Reply #22 on: February 06, 2019, 02:33:35 PM »
you may want 2 separate buildings, one with heat and a nice floor.  If you pour a concrete floor, I would also place pex for radiant heat, even if there are no immediate plans for heat.  If they were the same width buildings separated by say 20 to 30 feet, you might be able in your 3rd phase, connect up the two rooves to make a breezeway and eventually add walls to link the 2 into one.  Let us know how much mula your CFO will approve for us to spend for you.  The possibilities are nearly endless.  lol   You have a lot of years ahead, and if you can make much of your needed materials with your mill, that will help.  If you only pour concrete where you need it, that will save money, esp. if designed so it can be poured later when able, sys in the mill or equipment part.

Offline tylerltr450

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Re: How would you do it?
« Reply #23 on: February 06, 2019, 02:34:19 PM »
This was my original setup





It took up 5x16 and I need more with have the arms attached. I actually had to over lap the blades to make setting and grinding work together.

Now I'm on rollers and I take up almost no room now. Gained back 5feet




Close up of the cart




This is what it looks like now
Sure I have to put the arms up everytime I want to sharpen but its worth the trade off.




As you can tell before and after is a major change.
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Offline tylerltr450

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Re: How would you do it?
« Reply #24 on: February 06, 2019, 02:37:27 PM »
Office Trailer Kiln in Drying and Processing.  Tyler do you recommend long and skinny for the sharpening room.  what do you consider to be the ideal dimension.
I would say it depends, I sharpen for other people and my room is 24x18. I used up just for machines alone 5x18. I found it very hard to work having the units overlapping the arms which is why I went with a mobile design. I would say depending on the size bands you can get away with the OP size but for me folding the blades up and taking them apart you can really burn up about 12x18.
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Offline CabinCreations

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Re: How would you do it?
« Reply #25 on: February 06, 2019, 02:54:10 PM »
Rubberfish - thanks! I know no matter what is built, I will grow into it. 

I am just looking for a place that I am happy to get started in but still have a little room to grow before thinking about an addition like Doc is already alluding to :D. I'll get back to you about your spending limits after I talk to the wife (I mean CFO).

tyler - I like that mobile set-up. The "Sharpening Shed" isn't something that I plan to jump into right away, but I expect that eventually I will want to put my hand in on that too. In the mean time, I see that area as extra mill storage. When I do try sharpening, I may have to borrow the mobile idea. Thanks for the pictures!



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Offline tylerltr450

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Re: How would you do it?
« Reply #26 on: February 06, 2019, 03:14:05 PM »
CC,

I would consider trying to stay mobile with them since you loose so much space. Plus when its nice out I roll the setter and sharpener outside to enjoy some of the sun and wind.
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Offline boonesyard

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Re: How would you do it?
« Reply #27 on: February 06, 2019, 03:20:39 PM »
  


cc. First of all, sorry for the crummy pic. I couldn't figure out how to get it from sketchup to my files, I'll have to get that done eventually. The drawing isn't complete yet, but close enough for comparison purposes.

I went through a similar dilema for my project this spring as well. I want a sawmill shed with enough room to do some lumber drying, how big?? I ended up salvaging rafters that are going to work, so my size was established. 7ea 36' rafters, designed to be on 8' centers. I want a 2' overhang all around so I end up with 32'x48'. I have a 16' door in a center side wall and a 20' door in an end wall. I thought a lot about how to place the saw, work flow, waste, accessibility to the saw for mobile jobs, access for the forklift and how to pile lumber. One thing's for sure, once I get the saw in there, it gets small real fast. I know you want to get it all done with one building, but you never hear anyone say "I made this thing too big". Good luck on your project.   
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Offline CabinCreations

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Re: How would you do it?
« Reply #28 on: February 06, 2019, 03:37:22 PM »
boonesyard - That is a good looking building and well done in sketch-up too smiley_thumbsup. It worries me that at 32'x48' it feels small with your mill in there. Maybe I will have to re-think this - I guess that is why I posted!

What do you plan to use as a header for the 20' door on the end wall? 
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Offline boonesyard

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Re: How would you do it?
« Reply #29 on: February 06, 2019, 04:31:18 PM »
There's a rafter at the endwall, so a bearing header isn't required. I have a 20' 3x12 in that opening and on my sidewall (bearing) at the 16' opening I have a clear 8x12 white oak header.
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Offline CabinCreations

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Re: How would you do it?
« Reply #30 on: February 06, 2019, 04:36:59 PM »
Sorry, I was looking at the sidewall 16' opening. That all makes sense though. Will you mill the 8x12 white oak yourself?
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Offline Tin Horse

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Re: How would you do it?
« Reply #31 on: February 06, 2019, 04:42:26 PM »
Tin Horse - You have to get your 'ag' building inspected in Ontario? Our code says what Doc just mentioned. They could make me remove the building if it was completed before an inspector (if required) did their job.
Same here also. I've had it inspected to its close in point. But they they keep the file open til final. Could be years.

 
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Offline CabinCreations

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Re: How would you do it?
« Reply #32 on: February 06, 2019, 04:47:55 PM »
That looks great, Tin Horse! Thanks for sharing!
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Re: How would you do it?
« Reply #33 on: February 06, 2019, 04:50:12 PM »
Sorry, I was looking at the sidewall 16' opening. That all makes sense though. Will you mill the 8x12 white oak yourself?
Yes, I'll be milling all of the banding, beams and posts. Banding and beams will be white oak and the posts will be 18'x6"x6" cedar with 6' if them buried. I live on the river hear and the ground does some crazy stuff with freeze/thaw cycles. With 6' in the ground, it should minimize frost heaving. 
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Offline CabinCreations

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Re: How would you do it?
« Reply #34 on: February 06, 2019, 04:55:05 PM »
6' is a long way to go! Will your building require inspections? I was originally concerned with what members can be rough sawn and not graded, but if I don't have to get a building permit and inspections are not required, then I shouldn't have to worry. 
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Re: How would you do it?
« Reply #35 on: February 06, 2019, 05:10:12 PM »
6' is a long way, but I have a bit of experience with these pole sheds and we get some deep frost hear. We just had to dig a hole for a project and the frost was just over 5' deep where they've been driving.

This is considered an ag building, and I don't need an inspection in our county here for this type of shed. I will need to get the electrical inspected but that's not a big deal.
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Offline PAmizerman

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Re: How would you do it?
« Reply #36 on: February 06, 2019, 05:36:56 PM »
My designated sharpening shed is 12'x16'
It is comfortable. I run 158" bands and my sharpener and setter overlap. I can sharpen and set at the same time. If I had longer bands I would not be able to. 

I am thinking about making a desetting and cleaning station but there is not enough room for it. I would not want the shed any smaller.

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Offline DPatton

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Re: How would you do it?
« Reply #37 on: February 06, 2019, 07:08:35 PM »
 

DPatton - I agree. There is no such thing as a shed that is too big, so I guess my wallet is just to small  :'(


Lol.....yep, same reason why I didn't build the shed I wanted this year! Good luck on you building no matter what size it is. 
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Offline tacks Y

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Re: How would you do it?
« Reply #38 on: February 06, 2019, 07:16:52 PM »
Cabin, What part of the state are you in? I put a roof over my mill I think 30' clear span. 40' over all length. Hope to start a kiln shed soon.

Offline CabinCreations

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Re: How would you do it?
« Reply #39 on: February 06, 2019, 08:54:39 PM »
PA - I appreciate you chiming in about your sharpening shed. I watched as your build progressed and was going to ask you dimensions. Thanks! 

Tacks - 30' clear is likely what I will be dealing with. Somewhere in that ballpark at least. I am located just NW of the Pittsburgh airport. 
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Offline samandothers

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Re: How would you do it?
« Reply #40 on: February 06, 2019, 09:44:15 PM »
Maybe another reason to separate the mill and the kiln is fire.  If one caused a fire it could take out 2 expensive tools.  This may in itself not be reason to build two but along with the others this may add some incentive if you have the real estate for the multiple buildings.

Offline GeneWengert-WoodDoc

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Re: How would you do it?
« Reply #41 on: February 06, 2019, 09:54:19 PM »
For the record, the chemicals in wood that do damage to the structure are water vapor, tannic acid and acetic acid
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Offline CabinCreations

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Re: How would you do it?
« Reply #42 on: February 07, 2019, 06:30:34 AM »
The fire issue is a great point - for some reason I had not considered that. Real estate is somewhat limited, but I can make a separate building for a future kiln. 

WoodDoc - Thanks for that. I am going to do some reading on the chemicals released, but I think at this point the kiln will no longer be under the same roof as everything else. 
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Offline alan gage

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Re: How would you do it?
« Reply #43 on: February 07, 2019, 09:56:20 AM »
I don't think I'd want to saw in a 12' wide shed if I had a choice. If I was in something that narrow I'd want it to be a standalone shed with good access to both sides. I don't know how you unload boards from your mill but I like to either unload them directly onto loader forks or else set them on a set of 4x4's right next to the mill where I can easily pick them up with loader forks. Either way I can do it by only lifting one end of the board at a time.

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Re: How would you do it?
« Reply #44 on: February 07, 2019, 10:39:47 AM »
That's a good point - thanks for pointing it out. I will have to consider off-loading a little more. If I take the kiln out, I will have a little more room to play with (if I don't bump up the sharpening area too....  say_what)

A complete layout adjustment may be in order here! 
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Offline PAmizerman

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Re: How would you do it?
« Reply #45 on: February 07, 2019, 07:04:55 PM »
My shed over my saw is 12' wide but the tin hangs out the front 2 or 3 feet. It is old tin that is used to pour concrete on so it is heavy enough the wind doesn't affect it.

It works ok. Not ideal but keeps the worst of the weather off. The biggest pain is shoveling all that sawdust out. 

When the shed was built it was over a lt30. And it was never going to turn into a full time business  :D well 6 years later and literally tons and tons of sawdust later here I am 8)



 
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Re: How would you do it?
« Reply #46 on: February 08, 2019, 06:33:25 AM »
That's great, PA. Congratulations on your success! This is a part time venture for me - I have been warned not to quit my day job. haha. 

Ah, the sawdust. I have thought about that and have not come up with a good solution. If you got to re-build your saw shed, do you know how you would do it differently? 
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Offline doc henderson

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Re: How would you do it?
« Reply #47 on: February 08, 2019, 09:06:55 AM »
CC, I give sawdust to a doc with a cabin off grid, he uses for a composting toilet, and planer chips for friends at work with chickens.  I also make fire starters with candle remnants with chips.

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Re: How would you do it?
« Reply #48 on: February 08, 2019, 09:49:29 AM »
I am thinking about making a desetting and cleaning station but there is not enough room for it. I would not want the shed any smaller.


If the de-setter and cleaner could be made with the blade positioned vertical it would not need to take up much floor space. ?

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Re: How would you do it?
« Reply #49 on: February 08, 2019, 09:56:26 AM »
PAmiserman looks like you get to shovel the white suff and the brown stuff, only the brown year round!
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Re: How would you do it?
« Reply #50 on: February 08, 2019, 10:01:59 AM »
Cabin, I would find out if a large overhang with post be considered part of the building size or is it just the enclosed floor space? Also where would a stand alone roofed structure (no walls) fall in the regulations?

Just thought it would be something to clarify with the officials as it may open up other possibilities.

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Re: How would you do it?
« Reply #51 on: February 08, 2019, 02:09:34 PM »
Hilltop - That was a good thought. I just checked with the township and unfortunately anything under roof is considered part of the square footage of the building, so that doesn't help here. 

They are supposed to get back to me about the 'ag' building idea though. We'll see what they say!
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Offline PAmizerman

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Re: How would you do it?
« Reply #52 on: February 08, 2019, 09:54:03 PM »
I am thinking about making a desetting and cleaning station but there is not enough room for it. I would not want the shed any smaller.


If the de-setter and cleaner could be made with the blade positioned vertical it would not need to take up much floor space. ?
I was thinking something like SE metals uses. 

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Re: How would you do it?
« Reply #53 on: February 08, 2019, 10:08:50 PM »
PAmiserman looks like you get to shovel the white suff and the brown stuff, only the brown year round!
Indeed. Lots of shoveling here. I am constantly shoveling snow off my lumber piles.
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Re: How would you do it?
« Reply #54 on: February 08, 2019, 10:30:46 PM »
@CabinCreations  

Here is my latest brainstorm. I just need a fatter wallet :D.

I am trying to model it similar to the baker system.

I work alone full time so this would really help to boost my production.



 

For the lumber storage I plan to build pallets on skids so I can pull them out lengthwise to unload.  I will have a pallet for my most common dimensions. Most of my sawing is custom orders so I always have side lumber that needs put on sticks. I've found that people usually want all the same width so I have a stack for each width and length. Right now my stacks are outside and I have to clean the snow off and remove the tin just to add a couple boards. So far this setup is the best I believe will work for me.
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Re: How would you do it?
« Reply #55 on: February 08, 2019, 10:36:12 PM »
Let me know if the pic is readable. It didn't come through the way I wanted.
 @CabinCreations what program did you use for your drawing?
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Re: How would you do it?
« Reply #56 on: February 11, 2019, 06:26:39 AM »
@PAmizerman -  That looks like it would be quite the production building. Would this be built off of the sharpening shed that you just completed or would this be a completely separate build? I take it that most of your work is stationary? Do you do much portable work?

The photo came through well enough to see what you were thinking. I used a PDF editer called Bluebeam (I drew it on my lunch break at work....  :)). It's a simple program but it's great for drawing simple sketches to scale quickly. 
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Offline nativewolf

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Re: How would you do it?
« Reply #57 on: February 11, 2019, 07:42:00 AM »
Maybe another reason to separate the mill and the kiln is fire.  If one caused a fire it could take out 2 expensive tools.  This may in itself not be reason to build two but along with the others this may add some incentive if you have the real estate for the multiple buildings.
I see you changed the mind on the kiln under 1 roof. Great because fire is exactly what I was thinking.  I am a super newbie on the sawmilling side of it all.  In fact we don't own a mill, but I've spent $30k on sawyers in the last 2 years trying out ideas. As part of my education I toured lots of mills, circle mills, mills with kilns, etc etc.  I was very surprised to see so many burnt out kilns.

I'd have that kiln as far from the building as you can make it.  I'd also urge you to consider a solar kiln..ok I know you are in the cloud/snow belt but it would still cut down on your energy needs.  I'd ask what you have for material handling?  A skid steer or telehandler is awesome around a small mill.
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Re: How would you do it?
« Reply #58 on: February 11, 2019, 07:59:09 AM »
@CabinCreations it would be a complete new build. I have not done any portable sawing for the last 4 years and don't plan to do any in the future. I have had enough to keep me busy.
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Re: How would you do it?
« Reply #59 on: February 11, 2019, 11:58:16 AM »
nativewolf - yes, wise people on here shed light on placing the kiln away from the rest of the equipment. The kiln is a plan for the future (hopefully not distant future though). When I get to that point, the kiln will be as far away as I can without making the transport of the lumber too difficult. 

Support equipment is minimal right now. This operation is expected to be mostly mobile, and since I can't quit my day job - it will be part time. Most of the work expected to take place at this new building will be small jobs where the customer prefers to bring the logs to me rather than pay for transportation and for personal milling. Support equipment will be a truck, atv, log arch, future tractor and my bare hands. A skid steer is a future possibility but it hasn't fit in the 5 year plan!

PA - I kind of expected that. If I am looking at your sketch right, it looks like it would be difficult to get your mill in and out of the building with the sharpening shed located where you have it drawn. If it is mostly stationary then you have nothing to worry about. 

Building something where the mill can be easily pulled in and out is what I am struggling with. I have the land, but of course its a lot of hill in western PA... I will need to have the location of this mill leveled. Based on the geometry of the hillside and the entrance into the area, getting the mill with the logs on the correct side of the mill is giving me some problems... 

WM should consider making a "left hand" mill option where the loading takes place on the left hand side :D. It would make my situation much easier. 
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Offline doc henderson

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Re: How would you do it?
« Reply #60 on: February 11, 2019, 02:28:48 PM »
not sure about your tongue wt., but I move my mill with skid steer and crane.  I can jack knife and spin into seemingly impossible places.  with carriage further back takes the wt. off, so atv might help in tight spots with short wheel base

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Re: How would you do it?
« Reply #61 on: February 11, 2019, 04:14:34 PM »
I contemplated what else I could move the mill with to allow a little more freedom with the placement of the shed, but I would prefer to just drive through with the truck and unhook the mill or have an easy way to back it in and unhook. If I can't come up with a good solution, I will look closer into moving it into its resting place by other means. 

I have looked at the dollys that can be fitted with a ball mount. Some of them seem to have rugged tires and a good allowable load (600 lb) - has anyone else heard of or used something like this to fine tune the position of a mill? 
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Re: How would you do it?
« Reply #62 on: February 11, 2019, 04:39:52 PM »
my brother fixes the electric carts/chairs for vets he meets at the VFW.  He has thought of rigging up a little machine to move things.  I have a ranch hand front bumper with a receiver hitch built in.  i put my winch in it when needed but can put a hitch in it and move the mill or a trailer driving forward.  nice when it is long and curvey and you cannot see to the other end via mirrors.  long wheel base nice for pulling, short nice for backing with lots of curves 

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Re: How would you do it?
« Reply #63 on: February 11, 2019, 04:44:10 PM »
if you build your building and put a shed roof along the long side, it can be open on 3 sides.  pull through front and back. operate mill from the side.  collect sawdust up next to the building with a tarp or broom if you pour concrete

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Re: How would you do it?
« Reply #64 on: February 11, 2019, 04:44:32 PM »
Correct. Once the mill is in there it will not be coming out until it's time to upgrade!!
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Re: How would you do it?
« Reply #65 on: February 11, 2019, 04:46:48 PM »
If you make the primary building 2 stories, may decrease footprint, and give a tall building to put shed roof off of and look cool

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Re: How would you do it?
« Reply #66 on: February 11, 2019, 04:51:22 PM »
my mill is in one spot unless it needs repair and or for camp Alaska.  If you are limited by 1,000 sq. feet, see if that is just the footprint or total sq. feet.  can have the sharpening up stairs, or build the equip. portion tall with a loft or mezzanine to sharpen blades.  Also can get building up and finish other areas as you go.  Will be pulling the mill out this week.  will take some pics.  Had some from another year but cannot fine them.

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Re: How would you do it?
« Reply #67 on: February 11, 2019, 04:55:48 PM »
The shed roof could have a tarp that rolls down on the side and garage doors or tarps at the front and back to weather in for winter, and so that inquiring eyes do not see.

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Re: How would you do it?
« Reply #68 on: February 12, 2019, 10:59:50 AM »
I was thinking many of those same things, doc. I am leaning towards building to accommodate a second level now that way I can finish it later and still avoid the building permit at this point. That leaves the full 1000 sf for the mill and equipment!  

I am concerned about inquiring eyes, but the entrance will be gated (not that a gate stops everyone...). I'll have to keep brain storming. I contacted a few excavation companies to come out and take a look. I am hoping they can help determine the size of the area that can be leveled and to get a quote. I should be able to really start nailing down some concepts after that takes place. 
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Offline waynorthmountie

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Re: How would you do it?
« Reply #69 on: February 12, 2019, 11:21:33 AM »
CC

Looking at your Equipment storage area you would never be able to fit a tractor of significant size inside of it. Most are well over 20 feet long when including buckets and other implements.

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Re: How would you do it?
« Reply #70 on: February 12, 2019, 11:27:51 AM »
waynorth - I noticed that as I started working with the space a little more. I don't currently have a real tractor but plan to in the future so I need to plan for it. Any opinion on a reasonable length for this area? Thanks!
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Offline Tin Horse

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Re: How would you do it?
« Reply #71 on: February 12, 2019, 11:43:36 AM »
As I read all the great info here about saw mill sheds and pictures I wonder about trapped fumes and dust along with prevailing winds. I'm hoping to get my mill under a roof this year if time allows. For those with gas or diesel power are there any design regrets with your buildings? My mill is diesel power and the deck runs on a 6hp gas. I've got enough hydro at my proposed site to remove the gas engine and go electric. I realize dust pick up and fans help but I'm limited on hydro at this location. I spoke with an older sawyer who had his mill under a roof and hated it. It came back outside. He felt the wind was always the wrong way and engine fumes. He even disliked the increased noise. The picture shows basically where the mill would stay and extend the shed roof about 30'.
Thanks for any thoughts on this.

 
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Re: How would you do it?
« Reply #72 on: February 12, 2019, 01:01:11 PM »
On my log splitter, I did a remote exhaust pointing away from the operator.  hard to do on a moving carriage, but you can at least point away from the building to reduce reflected noise to the operator.  And wear hearing protection.  If it were to be mostly stationary, I would not want to put it in a garage every night and get it out every day

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Re: How would you do it?
« Reply #73 on: February 13, 2019, 03:07:18 PM »
 Tin Horse - I am glad you brought up these points. I have been contemplating some of them (mostly noise and fumes) which is why I am leaning towards an open lean-to for the mill to operate in. 

I am curious what others have to say about those issues though, I'll stand-by smiley_computer_monitor
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Re: How would you do it?
« Reply #74 on: February 13, 2019, 09:45:09 PM »
My mill is outside but tucked into trees so you cannot see it from any road and if someone tried to steal it, good luck getting it out.  Lots of twists and turns.  I welded a 2 " receiver to my crane for my skid steer, and can twist and turn, jack knife and spin this 31 foot long mill almost anywhere.



 




 


lots to get ready before camp Alaska this weekend.

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Re: How would you do it?
« Reply #75 on: March 15, 2019, 10:20:30 AM »
After clearing the site and pondering all the options for the new building, I had an idea - however I am not sure it is a good idea (or even practical) so I thought all of you may be able to chime in again!

So the site is on a slope (approximately 1-1/8" to 1' or a drop of 3' over the 32' anticipated length of the building). After reading more threads on here and pondering the construction of the old circle mill on the property, I thought I may be able to use the natural slope to my advantage for a portable mill by building flooring above grade instead of leveling and building on grade. 

My thought on advantages:
1. Not walking on concrete
2. No drainage issues
3. Downhill offloading of slabs and boards
4. Easy sawdust cleanup and potential storage under the building

My though on disadvantages:
1. Longevity/Stability of the mill + log suspended on the flooring
2. Would require a log deck
3. Would require a ramp for the mill

Is this a terrible idea, am I overlooking a fatal flaw, or is this a possibility? I can't say I have seen a mill shed elevated above ground but maybe one of you have. 

Any thoughts are greatly appreciated!

Thanks!
- Kody
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Re: How would you do it?
« Reply #76 on: March 15, 2019, 10:35:10 AM »
a wood floor will be damaged by dropped heavy timbers, and may need footers or pilings under the supports for the mill.  to many pounds per square inch for a wood floor but could be done;  if you are doing footings and a stem wall, you could split the diff. and have the uphill end floor be 1.5 feet below grade and the lower 1.5 feet above. you will want to have it level at the area where you bring wood to the mill.  I assume the mill is oriented the long way and you don't want to travel sideways on a slope with a lot of weight in the air.

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Re: How would you do it?
« Reply #77 on: March 15, 2019, 11:16:20 AM »
you could also go down 3 feet into ground at the top of the hill and flush with the ground at the bottom.  you can just back the mill in on the bottom side.  If you then did retaining walls out perpendicular to the long length of the building, the dirt from you excavation could give a level flat area to bring logs to and boards from the mill.  also it would facilitate a log deck on the ground that span from the wall to the mill.  can put some rubber belting or a tarp on the sawdust side and pull out, or on concrete not to hard to sweep up at the end of the day.  so now you sunk 3 feet below grade and water will roll around your building.  There are worse things to stand on all day, need good shoes with inserts.

Offline CabinCreations

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Re: How would you do it?
« Reply #78 on: March 15, 2019, 01:07:13 PM »
Great point - I didn't consider all the impact loads that the wood flooring would have to endure. 

Both options you pointed out seem reasonable, but at the same time if I am going to have someone come out to level an area, it may just be easier to have the entire site leveled for the building and adjust the grading of the existing trail/road to tie into the leveled area. 

Plenty to keep thinking about but I appreciate the feedback!  thumbs-up
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Re: How would you do it?
« Reply #79 on: March 15, 2019, 09:33:45 PM »
@Percy  has an elevated mill
Woodmizer lt40 super remote 42hp Kubota diesel. Accuset II
Hydraulics everywhere
Traverse 6035 telehandler
WM bms250 sharpener
WM bmt250 setter
and a lot of back breaking work!!

Online btulloh

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Re: How would you do it?
« Reply #80 on: March 15, 2019, 11:54:36 PM »
You'll be way ahead of the game if you level out as much as practical.  I need to do the same thing.  Looking forward to see how it turns out.  
HM126

Offline CabinCreations

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Re: How would you do it?
« Reply #81 on: March 18, 2019, 02:42:26 PM »
Thanks, guys. I think sticking with the original plan and leveling the site is going to be the best long term solution. I'll be having someone come out soon to take a look and get me a quote. The total area that I will have leveled will mostly depend on that quote. 
2011 LT35HD


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