The Forestry Forum is sponsored in part by:

iDRY Vacuum Kilns


Forestry Forum
Sponsored by:


TimberKing Sawmills



Toll Free 1-800-582-0470

LogRite Tools



Norwood Industries Inc.




Your source for Portable Sawmills, Edgers, Resaws, Sharpeners, Setters, Bandsaw Blades and Sawmill Parts

EZ Boardwalk Sawmills. More Saw For Less Money!

STIHLDealers.com sponsored by Northeast STIHL


Woodland Sawmills

Peterson Swingmills

 KASCO SharpTech WoodMaxx Blades

Turbosawmill

Sawmill Exchange

Michigan Firewood, your BRUTE FORCE Authorized Dealer

FARMA


Baker Products

ECHO-Bearcat

iDRY Wood Lumber Vacuum Drying for everyon

Nyle Kiln Dry Systems




Author Topic: Newbie cant keep blades sharp  (Read 1332 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline 61ford

  • member
  • *
  • Posts: 9
  • I'm new!
    • Share Post
Newbie cant keep blades sharp
« on: February 08, 2019, 08:11:22 PM »
I'm new to sawmilling. Trying to saw my own lumber to build me a house. Mostly pine and poplar with a norwood lm 29. I'm using cooks saw blades and just like today I get through about 1 log with a blade. I try to keep all the dirt off the log that is humanly possible. What am I doing wrong? I've searched the web and cant find a thing

Online hacknchop

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 372
  • Age: 58
  • Location: Bruce Mines Ontario Canada
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm new!
    • Share Post
Re: Newbie cant keep blades sharp
« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2019, 08:25:29 PM »
Welcome to forum are your bands breaking? Whereabouts are you working outside inside ? Also are you using lube on your blades especially in the pine ?
Often wrong never indoubt

Offline Chuck White

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 12070
  • Age: 70
  • Location: Russell, NY (Way Upstate)
  • Gender: Male
  • Sawing Mobile since 2005
    • Share Post
Re: Newbie cant keep blades sharp
« Reply #2 on: February 08, 2019, 08:28:44 PM »
Welcome to the Forestry Forum, 61ford!
~Chuck~
Retired USAF (1989), Retired School Bus Driver (2012), and now a Mobile Sawyer
1995 Wood-Mizer LT40HDG2425 Kohler - Shingle & LapSider, Cooks Cat Claw Sharpener and single-tooth setter, 4-foot Logrite cant hook.
Basic mechanical skills are all that's required to maintain a Wood-Mizer

Offline Southside

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 5318
  • Age: 47
  • Location: Wilsons (Dinwiddie County), VA
  • Gender: Male
  • Have a plan to saw every log you meet.
    • Share Post
Re: Newbie cant keep blades sharp
« Reply #3 on: February 08, 2019, 08:32:14 PM »
What species of pine?  Old or fresh logs? Are they frozen? Deep furrow bark?  It does not take much mud or dirt at all to dull a band and pine is really good at holding sand and other fine dirt in the bark.  Have you tried a spud or other tool to physically remove the bark and see if you get an improvement? 
Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT Super 70 and LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
Enough cows to ensure there is no spare time.

Offline 61ford

  • member
  • *
  • Posts: 9
  • I'm new!
    • Share Post
Re: Newbie cant keep blades sharp
« Reply #4 on: February 08, 2019, 08:37:58 PM »
No bands breaking. Using water or lately it's been cold windshield washer fluid. Virginia pine. Some have been fresh logs today's was. Some had been laying a year or so. No haven't tried debarking. Not frozen.sawing outside. 

Online hacknchop

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 372
  • Age: 58
  • Location: Bruce Mines Ontario Canada
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm new!
    • Share Post
Re: Newbie cant keep blades sharp
« Reply #5 on: February 08, 2019, 08:44:32 PM »
I use a mixture of water and pinesole when cutting pine it mixes well with windshield antifreeze. 
What I have done with dirty logs is to roll my log back  so that my saw enters from the cut side and does not pull the dirt through the cut.
Often wrong never indoubt

Offline Southside

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 5318
  • Age: 47
  • Location: Wilsons (Dinwiddie County), VA
  • Gender: Male
  • Have a plan to saw every log you meet.
    • Share Post
Re: Newbie cant keep blades sharp
« Reply #6 on: February 08, 2019, 08:49:37 PM »
Virginia Pine has tons of knots, and those will dull a band very fast as well, the year old ones only make it worse. 

As a note have you checked your band alignment and guide clearances to be sure you are not creating a torque effect on the band?  Are the bands getting hot or is the tension dropping as you saw?  
Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT Super 70 and LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
Enough cows to ensure there is no spare time.

Offline 61ford

  • member
  • *
  • Posts: 9
  • I'm new!
    • Share Post
Re: Newbie cant keep blades sharp
« Reply #7 on: February 08, 2019, 08:55:12 PM »
We have worked on the alignment quite a bit and it seems to be ok. No problems losing tension. Does seem to have to run a little more tension than norwood claims I basically bottom out the handle if not the blade comes off. Not sure what torque effect means 

Offline Southside

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 5318
  • Age: 47
  • Location: Wilsons (Dinwiddie County), VA
  • Gender: Male
  • Have a plan to saw every log you meet.
    • Share Post
Re: Newbie cant keep blades sharp
« Reply #8 on: February 08, 2019, 08:58:31 PM »
Trying to describe if the band is entering the wood at an angle, not straight, so it would be twisting between the guides.  
Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT Super 70 and LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
Enough cows to ensure there is no spare time.

Offline 61ford

  • member
  • *
  • Posts: 9
  • I'm new!
    • Share Post
Re: Newbie cant keep blades sharp
« Reply #9 on: February 08, 2019, 08:59:32 PM »
Oh ok no appears to always go in straight

Offline Banjo picker

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 2847
  • Location: Iuka Ms
  • Gender: Male
  • A goal without a plan is just a dream. Elbert H.
    • Share Post
Re: Newbie cant keep blades sharp
« Reply #10 on: February 08, 2019, 09:42:21 PM »
Greetings and welcome:  When you put on a new blade, does it cut straight for a cut or two and then act up or is it giving you problems as soon as you put the blade into the wood.  From what I read into your first post, you said you were trying to keep dirt off the logs, but are you doing enough to get the dirt off that gets on.  You cant keep all the dirt off, but without a debarker you really need to try and get the bark off at least where the blade enters the log at least untill you get this figured out.  How wide are the cuts you are making?  How fast are you trying to saw?  Banjo
Cooks AC 36--Prentice 210C--Morgan edger--Kubota M7040 with loader--Case 580 K with extendahoe--Case 850C dozer--Int 1700 series twin cylinder dump/log/flatbed truck--logging arch--2 Logrite mill sp.--Cat claw sharpening system--And a bulldog to make sure it all stays here.

Offline PAmizerman

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 605
  • Age: 27
  • Location: Loretto PA
  • Gender: Male
  • Just Another Day In Paradise!!
    • Share Post
    • Byrne Millwork
Re: Newbie cant keep blades sharp
« Reply #11 on: February 08, 2019, 11:05:42 PM »
This time of year I go through bands more often than in the summer. When it is cold out the mud and rocks freeze to the log and the debarker doesn't always get through the mud into clean bark. 
Woodmizer lt40 super remote 42hp Kubota diesel. Accuset II
Hydraulics everywhere
Woodmizer edger 26hp cat diesel
Traverse 6035 telehandler
Case 95xt skidloader
byrnemillwork.com
WM bms250 sharpener
WM bmt250 setter
and a lot of back breaking work!!

Offline Brad_bb

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 3834
  • Age: 47
  • Location: Joliet, IL and Indy
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: Newbie cant keep blades sharp
« Reply #12 on: February 08, 2019, 11:46:31 PM »
I would think your problem is mud/dirt/gravel in the bark.  It doesn't even have to be visible.  Could be blowing sand or dirt in the bark.  I had similar problems and then started debarking my cut line(with a spud).  It works but can take some time if it's a green log.  Older logs with bark sloughing is easy.  I started doing it because a lot of the ash logs I cut came from a guy who had a gravel log yard and the Ash bark would pick up stones.  One hit of a stone and you had to change the blade.  Since then I debark my slab cut lines on most logs.  Bands definitely last longer.
Anything someone can design, I can sure figure out how to fix!
If I say it\\\\\\\'s going to take so long, multiply that by at least 3!

Offline PA_Walnut

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 890
  • Location: Lancaster, PA area.
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: Newbie cant keep blades sharp
« Reply #13 on: February 09, 2019, 06:16:50 AM »
Where are you located? Are you SURE they are not frozen? Frozen logs will drive you crazy.
What blade profile are you using? Also, what makes you determine that the blade is dull vs. some other issue?

Have you inspected your blade tooth(teeth) with a magnifier to see what they look like? It's amazing how much this will tell you about a blade that your eye can't resolve on it's own.

I own my own small piece of the world on an 8 acre plot on the side of a mountain with walnut, hickory, ash and spruce.
LT40HD Wide 35HP Diesel
Peterson Dedicated Wide Slabber
Kubota M62 Tractor/Backhoe
WoodMizer KD250 Kiln
Northland 800 Kiln

Offline 61ford

  • member
  • *
  • Posts: 9
  • I'm new!
    • Share Post
Re: Newbie cant keep blades sharp
« Reply #14 on: February 09, 2019, 07:14:07 AM »
Knoxville tn. There not frozen we've had very little really cold weather even less than we normally do. I think I'll go buy me a debarker and see if that helps. Well I think the blade is dull bc you just about have to force it to finish out the cut. Logs are usually 8 to 12 inches wide and I usually try to keep a steady pace while walking through the cut 

Offline Magicman

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 38641
  • Age: 76
  • Location: Brookhaven, MS
  • Gender: Male
  • A "Traveling Man"
    • Share Post
    • Knothole Sawmill
Re: Newbie cant keep blades sharp
« Reply #15 on: February 09, 2019, 07:16:25 AM »
Welcome to the Forestry Forum, 61ford.  Completing your profile with your location/sawmill always helps with answering questions and also helps us to remember.  
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Offline Chuck White

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 12070
  • Age: 70
  • Location: Russell, NY (Way Upstate)
  • Gender: Male
  • Sawing Mobile since 2005
    • Share Post
Re: Newbie cant keep blades sharp
« Reply #16 on: February 09, 2019, 07:20:08 AM »
Following this thread, I'm wondering if your blades are actually getting dull or if they could possibly be losing their set!

Is it possible that your bands are riding too far back and the teeth are actually in contact with the blade guide rollers, and thus taking the set out?
~Chuck~
Retired USAF (1989), Retired School Bus Driver (2012), and now a Mobile Sawyer
1995 Wood-Mizer LT40HDG2425 Kohler - Shingle & LapSider, Cooks Cat Claw Sharpener and single-tooth setter, 4-foot Logrite cant hook.
Basic mechanical skills are all that's required to maintain a Wood-Mizer

Offline 61ford

  • member
  • *
  • Posts: 9
  • I'm new!
    • Share Post
Re: Newbie cant keep blades sharp
« Reply #17 on: February 09, 2019, 08:33:03 AM »
We will take a look at this. We do see sparks once in a while and we never can figure out why that is 

Offline dgdrls

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 2737
  • Age: 56
  • Location: Central NY
  • Gender: Male
  • Learning the Art of Milling Logs, Lucas 8/27
    • Share Post
Re: Newbie cant keep blades sharp
« Reply #18 on: February 09, 2019, 08:43:56 AM »
We will take a look at this. We do see sparks once in a while and we never can figure out why that is
Welcome 61Ford.    Sounds like dirty logs or even some with heavy mineral content.
Check a "dull" blade,  as Chuck White indicated just be certain you still have set in the teeth. That would eliminate possible issue
best
DGDrls

Offline btulloh

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 2422
  • Age: 67
  • Location: Midlothian, VA
  • Gender: Male
  • I never met an air conditioner I didn't like
    • Share Post
Re: Newbie cant keep blades sharp
« Reply #19 on: February 09, 2019, 09:28:07 AM »
I would think your problem is mud/dirt/gravel in the bark.  It doesn't even have to be visible.  Could be blowing sand or dirt in the bark.


I find this to be true with VA pine.  If I remove a strip of bark on the entrance side of the cut (like a debarker does) I get better life.  Sometimes I use a different blade on the opening cuts and switch to a fresh band after I have a cant to work with.  The VA pine bark seems to hold a lot of blown in sand and dirt that just knocks the sharp off in a hurry.
HM126

Offline Old Greenhorn

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 1798
  • Age: 64
  • Location: Catskill Mountains, NY
  • Gender: Male
  • An old coot, still learning.
    • Share Post
Re: Newbie cant keep blades sharp
« Reply #20 on: February 09, 2019, 09:37:24 AM »
I too am a relative newbie, and also experienced the joys of this phenomenon. I have NO experience with pine (yet) and little with hemlock. Mostly I have cut hardwoods. I have always been an advocate of cheap (free) test solutions to prove a theory, so when I had issues I tried using a broad ax on the side of the log where the blade enters. Just use your eye to site down the log and clean it off along that line. This worked but was clunky, so I grabbed my draw knife and used that, works pretty good, especially in logs that have loose bark, pretty quick, except on maple. Blade life went up pretty quick. Cheap and dirty. I didn't go any further than that because as us newbies know, therre are a lot of major things to learn and fix in our heads, so I moved onto other problems.
 You don't mention, and I am surprised nobody asked, usually the first question I see, but what rake angle are you using on your blades? 4 degree I would think is what you want.
 Good Luck.
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 450, 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) I mill for fun and my mental health. NYLT Certified.

I ain't the woodcutter, but I can cut wood 'til the woodcutter gets here.

Offline 61ford

  • member
  • *
  • Posts: 9
  • I'm new!
    • Share Post
Re: Newbie cant keep blades sharp
« Reply #21 on: February 09, 2019, 09:43:53 AM »
I'm not exactly sure what the angle is. I think its 4. Cooks only sells one set of blades for mine I went looking last night for the specs but couldn't find any 

Offline LeeB

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 8001
  • Age: 60
  • Location: Yellville Arkansas
  • Gender: Male
  • proud to be a TEXAN in Arkansas
    • Share Post
Re: Newbie cant keep blades sharp
« Reply #22 on: February 09, 2019, 09:47:25 AM »
What mill are you using? How much HP you have? How fast are you sawing? Sawing too slow can dull a blade quickly too. Have you checked the tension of the drive belt? A slipping belt will mimic a dull blade. 
'98 LT40HDD/Lombardini, Case 580L, Cat D4C, JD 3032 tractor, JD 5410 tractor, Husky 346, 372 and 562XP's. Stihl MS180 and MS361, 1998 and 2006 3/4 Ton 5.9 Cummins 4x4's, 1989 Dodge D100 w/ 318, and a 1966 Chevy C60 w/ dump bed.

Offline KenMac

  • Full Member
  • **
  • Posts: 63
  • Age: 64
  • Location: Near Pell City, Alabama
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm new, but don't feel so new!
    • Share Post
Re: Newbie cant keep blades sharp
« Reply #23 on: February 09, 2019, 12:17:07 PM »
I'm not exactly sure what the angle is. I think its 4. Cooks only sells one set of blades for mine I went looking last night for the specs but couldn't find any
I don't think Cook's sells a 4 degree blade. It's not in my catalog and they say 7 degrees works well for most any situation. I reserve the right to be wrong.
Cook's AC3667t, Cat Claw sharpener, Dual tooth setter, and Band Roller, Kubota B26 TLB

Offline 61ford

  • member
  • *
  • Posts: 9
  • I'm new!
    • Share Post
Re: Newbie cant keep blades sharp
« Reply #24 on: February 09, 2019, 12:23:02 PM »
It could be I have no idea. I did look at the blade this morning looks like the problem is the tips of the teeth are getting bent. Some are bent up some are bent down 

Offline Brad_bb

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 3834
  • Age: 47
  • Location: Joliet, IL and Indy
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: Newbie cant keep blades sharp
« Reply #25 on: February 09, 2019, 12:34:19 PM »
Are you talking about the set in the teeth?  On woodmizer blades you get one tooth bent up and one straight and one bent down etc.  That is called set.  It creates a kerf wider than the blade.  If you didn't have that, the blade would not pass through the wood.  Same goes for any hand saw.  If you don't have proper set, that is if the teeth get bent back towards the middle, it won't cut right.  It's often hard to see changes in set as they can be subtle or only in one part of the band.  This can cause diving, and/or just not cut well.  Same goes if the tips of those teeth get dull, or some of them do and aren't cutting correctly. It can dive or just not cut well.  Remember if your band doesn't want to cut, don't force it.  That can just lead to a dive etc.
Anything someone can design, I can sure figure out how to fix!
If I say it\\\\\\\'s going to take so long, multiply that by at least 3!

Offline 61ford

  • member
  • *
  • Posts: 9
  • I'm new!
    • Share Post
Re: Newbie cant keep blades sharp
« Reply #26 on: February 16, 2019, 12:35:32 PM »
I'll give you an update for whatever reason it seemed to be the cooks blades. I ordered some from timberwood and they actually sell you blades based on what your cutting. They do run less tension and so far does seem to be better

Offline PA_Walnut

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 890
  • Location: Lancaster, PA area.
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: Newbie cant keep blades sharp
« Reply #27 on: February 17, 2019, 08:19:53 AM »
I wonder if your set was off, from the manufacturer. I have discovered this to be the case with mine at times.
I own my own small piece of the world on an 8 acre plot on the side of a mountain with walnut, hickory, ash and spruce.
LT40HD Wide 35HP Diesel
Peterson Dedicated Wide Slabber
Kubota M62 Tractor/Backhoe
WoodMizer KD250 Kiln
Northland 800 Kiln

Offline moodnacreek

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 1387
  • Location: Orange County NY
  • Gender: Male
  • Sawin by the notches
    • Share Post
Re: Newbie cant keep blades sharp
« Reply #28 on: February 17, 2019, 08:31:20 AM »
And people ask, why are you still using a circle saw?

Offline OffGrid973

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 509
  • Age: 42
  • Location: New Jersey
  • Gender: Male
  • Off Grid
    • Share Post
Re: Newbie cant keep blades sharp
« Reply #29 on: February 17, 2019, 10:35:18 PM »
How many 12 logs are we taking before a brand new blade becomes dull?   If cut the first pass and then put a level on the log does it show a wavy pattern or level?  This can tell you if something on the saw is off before you worry about blades being the root cause.
Your Fellow Woodworker,
- Off Grid

Offline PA_Walnut

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 890
  • Location: Lancaster, PA area.
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: Newbie cant keep blades sharp
« Reply #30 on: February 18, 2019, 06:57:52 AM »
And people ask, why are you still using a circle saw?


When we hit metal, and have to replace a blade, it's about $25.
I own my own small piece of the world on an 8 acre plot on the side of a mountain with walnut, hickory, ash and spruce.
LT40HD Wide 35HP Diesel
Peterson Dedicated Wide Slabber
Kubota M62 Tractor/Backhoe
WoodMizer KD250 Kiln
Northland 800 Kiln

Offline mitchrm

  • member
  • *
  • Posts: 4
  • Age: 41
  • Location: Michigan
  • I'm new!
    • Share Post
Re: Newbie cant keep blades sharp
« Reply #31 on: February 21, 2019, 07:53:00 PM »
Could the wood have sand grown into them? Is it possible the trees grew along an old farm field or beach where sand could blow into the bark and after the time the tree grew around the sand? Something i found interesting before i was even interested in milling logs was two islands in lake michigan. The islands are called North and south manitou island. They are part of the sleeping bear dune national forest. On the shores of these island I believe there are virgin forest cedar trees that have never been cut. Old growth i guess you would call them. I was going to explain why but a picture speaks a thousand word.   okay maybe about 103 words.


Share via delicious Share via digg Share via facebook Share via linkedin Share via pinterest Share via reddit Share via stumble Share via tumblr Share via twitter

xx
sharp blades are diving

Started by levans on Sawmills and Milling

33 Replies
4137 Views
Last post August 08, 2012, 07:28:57 PM
by customsawyer
xx
Has anyone used cooks super sharp blades ?

Started by wle on Sawmills and Milling

7 Replies
1966 Views
Last post January 21, 2008, 08:26:20 PM
by shinnlinger
xx
super sharp band blades.

Started by head block on Sawmills and Milling

6 Replies
2135 Views
Last post February 23, 2008, 12:47:56 PM
by head block
xx
sharp shop circular blades

Started by hackberry jake on General Woodworking

1 Replies
621 Views
Last post August 06, 2013, 10:27:23 PM
by tyb525
 


Powered by EzPortal