Chainsaw fuel help please

[KAR 120C]

Good afternoon from the south of England!

A cry for help please!

I purchased a new Husqvarna 450 e-series chainsaw recently and would like to know what 2 stroke oil would best suit it? The saw engine has never been run. Do chainsaws require any special type of 2 stroke oil or can I use readily available automotive 2 stroke oil? Also, am I right in believing 2 stroke oil comes in synthetic and mineral versions? If so, which would suit my saw best?

Any help will be very much appreciated.

Michael

[Old Greenhorn]

Hello Kar and welcome to the forum! Good question, however, you have it posted in the wrong subject title in the forum. We have one here specifically for chainsaws. I hope one of the moderators will find this post and move it over there for you where it will be more readily seen by folks I consider experts in this stuff. Asking about oil types can provoke interesting discussions, however, pretty much any 2 stroke oil will get you through. I have never heard of 2 stroke oil for cars. Most chainsaw manufacturers will have something available under their own brand name. I use Husqvarna oil or a generic 2 stroke il for small engines, depending on my mood and what I find at a fair price. I mix all my stuff at 50:1. I am NOT an expert, but I get by OK.
 Again, I welcome you to the forum, encourage you to fill out some basic profile info because it helps folks know where you are and they can give you more focused advice. You may even find some folks local to you. I am pretty sure a moderator will be along shortly to put this post in the proper place to get you some better answers 
Cheers,
Tom.

[KAR 120C]

I do apologise for placing my post incorrectly, less speed, more hast!

Thank you Tom for answering my enquiry. Regarding automotive 2 stroke oil, There are very few if any cars that I can think of this side of the millenium that are designed to run on 2 stroke fuel. I feel sure they may exist but I do not know of any. I do believe however, there are a number of motorcycle and scooter manufacturers still producing machines designed to run on 2 stroke fuel.

Thank you again.

Michael

[Southside]

Welcome to the Forum,

Like Tom said saw oil is one of those Chevy/Ford/Dodge questions.  Personally, in my own Husky saws (372's + 395) I use marine injection oil as I can buy a gallon at at time for the price of just a few of the small pre-measured bottles and I mix it into a 1.5 gallon can at a time.  

What may be more critical for you is not so much the oil brand but how often you will use your saw as modern gas with ethanol will spoil and cause issues in the fuel lines and carburetor if it sits too long.  If you are going to only use the saw on occasion or only a certain time of year then it may be money well spent to get the branded pre-mix fuel that Husky sells.  Comes in metal cans here in the US with a screw on top.  It's not "real" gasoline but a different chemical combination and is shelf stable and won't cause issues if it sits around for a while.  Yes, it's more expensive, but in the end may be a better option if this saw won't see regular use.   

[Old Greenhorn]

@Southside logger brings up a great point (see, that's why I said you need the smart folks to weight in on this). This is a fight I DO have a dog in. @KAR 120C can you purchase non-ethanol gas in your area? If not, I would strongly suggest you follow Southside's advice. If you can get non-ethanol fuel, I would still use a treatment like Sta-Bil or your local equivalent to treat your fuel. I began doing this 5 years ago with all my small engines because I got tired of having to clean and rebuild carburetors every time I tried to start and engine I had not used in a while. I have not had to do this since I made that change. 5 years, and no carb work on any of my stuff. Good Luck.

[lxskllr]

Lots of opinions on oil. As a general rule, I prefer full synthetic anything, and I wouldn't use anything that wasn't specifically marketed for small engine use. Other stuff may work fine, but sticking to the rules is more foolproof imo, and the dealer can't say you screwed up and won't honor the warranty if you do things the "approved" way.

[doc henderson]

I have Stihl saws and use their oil.  It has a stabilizer in it.  It is good to keep fresh fuel and some advocate dumping fuel from a rarely used motor, back into a can to be used up in other things, and run the saw/motor dry to clear the carb.  I tried to buy aviation fuel for no ethanol and higher octane, but I am told it is no longer legal for private use prob. post 9/11.  

[lxskllr]

  I tried to buy aviation fuel for no ethanol and higher octane, but I am told it is no longer legal for private use prob. post 9/11.  

I believe aviation fuel has lead. Not something I want exhausting ~2' from my face. The stupid engine can just seize up, and I'll buy another one if it comes to that.

[Tasha]

In England, Super unleaded is normally ethanol free. Premium unleaded has up to 10% ethanol in it.  

As has been stated above ethanol laced petrol that sits more than a week can have bad effects on small engines (i.e. your saw).  Try hard to avoid the ethanol laced petrol.  I like to use the Stihl Ultra 2 cycle oil (full synthetic) in my Stihl saws.  I am certain that Husqvarna also has a good quality synthetic based 2-cycle oil.  Lots of folks use whatever they have. (not a believer in that technique). I believe in taking great care of my equipment and using a high quality oil with the best gas will minimize any issues that come up.

Try not to mix up more at a time than you will use quickly is what most good saw shops will tell you.

[Rebarb]

I have access to non ethanol fuel and mix it 50:1 with synthetic......PLUS add a can of Tru fuel or the like.
Used Echo and Husqvarna versions also.

Loggers round here do 40:1 

In my opinion, I'd break-in a new saw using canned fuel exclusively, it's good stuff.

[realzed]

I personally use the best oil I can find - not realistic or a very good place to scrimp or 'cheap out' in my opinion.. and in my case it's Stihl Ultra synthetic which I mix at a 40:1 ratio, a bit richer than recommended by Stihl..
Husky I think offers their own equivalent, if I'm not mistaken 
I also for my own peace of mind, use the highest octane - ethanol-free pump gas I can track down (which I'm told is Shell 91 around here) and I mix it close to 50/50 with some 100LL aviation fuel which I usually have in some quantity anyway, since I burn it in my old restored car.
There are a lot worse things in the air to be sucking in, than whatever miniscule bit of lead this deal might present in my estimation - good examples being, ending up behind a school or city bus, or large diesel truck in traffic and having to inhale in all of the fumes they always pump out!   

[doc henderson]

I agree that lead is good for octane and bad for people.  This is why it was removed from auto fuels and overall levels are reduced in humans.  It is bad for the developing brain as in children,  I sure would not use it in an enclosed space among other reasons as well such as carbon monoxide.  Paint was the big culprit because lead, (like ethylene glycol) has a sweet taste and kids would eat the paint chips.  The sweet taste is why dogs will drink antifreeze and die.  I think an adult operating a saw outdoors is at little risk to himself and will contribute little to the load in the air.  Normal carbon monoxide levels are normally up to 5% in non smokers, and 10% in smokers.  levels at 50% can be fatal.  CO binds to hemoglobin at a 200 x more powerful bond than oxygen.  The treatment is high concentration oxygen.  They are trying to find a sub. for lead in aviation fuel, but nothing practical has been found

[AZ_builder]

I've always used stihl oil. No good reason other than I run stihl saws. 91 octane and stabil. Never let it sit with fuel long enough to need the stabil but it's peace of mind.

[snowstorm]

the old sabb cars were 2 stroke 3 cyl

[Al_Smith]

Did somebody say oil  8)

[sawguy21]

Uh oh, you got Al's attention :D :D I only cut to entertain the kids at our collector's club gtg so the saws don't see much use. I use Stihl oil at 50:1 in everything and never had a problem but really should switch to canned fuel.

[AZ_builder]

Canned fuel is good stuff but gets pricey! I used to only cut a few months a year for firewood and ran stihl motimix. Saw ran great! But once I started to play wood worker it got to expensive for me.

[Inaotherlife]

I'd buy canned premix in the quart/liter size until you get four cans. And then save the cans to put your future mixed gas in.

I've been using Echo Red Armor oil. It has stabilizers in it and claims to be good for 2 years after mixing when stored in properly sealed containers.
The 16oz squeeze measure bottle is pretty handy. Makes 6 gallons, a gallon at a time.
Red Armor Family of Products

I like putting my mixed gas in the quart size Trufuel cans as they seal very well, and are easy to pour straight into the tank out of. 
And there's usually enough room in the saw case to keep a can of fuel and a quart bottle of bar oil.
Also, no chance of mistaking one plastic gas can for another. It goes in four of the quart/litre cans as soon as I mix it.

[lxskllr]

I like those squeeze bottles. I'm probably switching from Stihl oil just to get one.

[Al_Smith]

 :D If you all don't mind I think I'll set this one out .This grand old debate is endless and amusing .Do carry on but remember --spare the oil spoil the saw . ;)

[lxskllr]

I just learned my plastic Nalgene fuel bottle is a collectors item. Highly desired, and bring north of $80 on ebay. I was looking for a backup in case something happened to mine. I like that as my backpack fuel when I have to go crosscountry to cut. I've saved a metal quart of premix, but the neck's too small to fit my epa 1G can spout inside, so it's harder to fill. You also can't see inside. The plastic is nice cause you can see how much is in it without peering down the neck.

[doc henderson]

I use the stihl oil and correct me if I am wrong, but I was told it has stabilizer in it.  Here is a pic of it with may container which the oil and gas can match volume.  Prob. a metric to sae thing, but used to not be able to get a 1 dose oil container to match you fuel container size.  These are both for 2.5 gallons.  The spring loaded on off button helps to not slosh gas all over or over filling.  You really do not want gas all over you clothes and to operate a hand held internal combustion engine.




 




 




 

[Rebarb]

:D If you all don't mind I think I'll set this one out .This grand old debate is endless and amusing .Do carry on but remember --spare the oil spoil the saw . ;)

Lol, are you trying to say oil threads get opinionated. 
" spare the the oil spoil the saw " ?
Old testament ?

[Old Greenhorn]

 When this started I do recall writing:

Asking about oil types can provoke interesting discussions

I use the same system as Doc, but with a 1.1 gal jug and the smaller husky oil suited to that size (or the generic with a metering cup on the bottle). I too like those gas can spouts for the saw but because the nozzle JUST fits in the fuel hole I have managed to spill gas half the time I fill it anyway because I don't see it when it gets near the top. You just can't help some guys.

[doc henderson]

I use the same system as Doc, but with a 1.1 gal jug and the smaller husky oil suited to that size (or the generic with a metering cup on the bottle). I too like those gas can spouts for the saw but because the nozzle JUST fits in the fuel hole I have managed to spill gas half the time I fill it anyway because I don't see it when it gets near the top. You just can't help some guys.

At least you don't spill it every time now!!!   8)

[Al_Smith]

:D If you all don't mind I think I'll set this one out .This grand old debate is endless and amusing .Do carry on but remember --spare the oil spoil the saw . ;)

Lol, are you trying to say oil threads get opinionated.
" spare the the oil spoil the saw " ?
Old testament ?

Yes you might say opinionated --to extremes .Then when you get to the gas it really gets amusing .More actual "old school " than old testament . ;)

[doc henderson]

I have never met him in person, but I'm betting that old greenhorn is both a little oily and a little gassy.  cause he seems a lot like me!!! :-\ smiley_airfreshener   just kiddin OG.

[Old Greenhorn]

At least you don't spill it every time now!!!   8)

No not every time, in fact rarely, but I have to be really mindful when I pour. When I do miss, I cuss at myself a lot, but I am lazy, and neat so even then, the fuel is not on me, but I hate having it all over the saw. I started a habit my Dad taught me when I was a kid and I don't mention it because most folks think it's weird, but he taught me to take a rag and wipe off the caps (sawdust, grit, etc) BEFORE I open them so nothing can go in the tank when I remove them, it makes sense and I always do it. I also wipe the residue off after I put the caps back on to minimize what would get 'collected' by the spillage when I am running the saw.

[Old Greenhorn]

I have never met him in person, but I'm betting that old greenhorn is both a little oily and a little gassy.  cause he seems a lot like me!!! :-\ smiley_airfreshener  just kiddin OG.

Aren't we all from time to time?

[lxskllr]

 I started a habit my Dad taught me when I was a kid and I don't mention it because most folks think it's weird, but he taught me to take a rag and wipe off the caps (sawdust, grit, etc) BEFORE I open them so nothing can go in the tank when I remove them, it makes sense and I always do it.

I /try/ to do that, but I don't have my rag with me half the time. I still try to brush it off with a glove if there's a lot of funk on it. After that, I don't worry about cleaning it. If I slop on the saw, I figure it'll come off with use. I'm not much on cleaning saws anyway. I clean it functionally. Just get rid of the crud that can affect operation, but I don't much care what it looks like.

[Old Greenhorn]

I /try/ to do that, but I don't have my rag with me half the time. I still try to brush it off with a glove if there's a lot of funk on it. After that, I don't worry about cleaning it. If I slop on the saw, I figure it'll come off with use. I'm not much on cleaning saws anyway. I clean it functionally. Just get rid of the crud that can affect operation, but I don't much care what it looks like.

AT this point I am thinking poor KAR has no idea how his simple request has gone so far awry from what he hoped  :D. I think he got what he was looking for though. 
Lxsklir, I don't know if you and I could work together  ;D I think cleaning saves on a lot of repair time. I was in a class a while back and the instructor took the side plate off the saw and laid it by the side as he explained the things he was teaching about. As he talked, I quietly picked up the side plate, took out my pocket knife and cleaned it off all the junks and gunks that was crammed into every corner. When he picked it put up to put in on again, he said "this isn't mine, where did I lay mine?" I told him that was his, I just cleaned it and he said I got ahead of him. Cleaning solves a lot of problems before they start, but that's just my take.

[lxskllr]

After I'm done for the day, I brush the inside of the sprocket cover with a toothbrush. I don't worry about all the crevices unless I don't want to go inside yet, but don't want to do real work either. I'll sit on a stump and pick crud out of the cracks, but they just get filled again on the next cut. It's just busy work.


The bar gets cleaned and flipped whenever it comes off the saw. If it doesn't come off, it doesn't get cleaned, but it usually comes off at least once a session, unless it was just a few quick cuts.


Air filter gets checked every so often. Moreso when cutting vines cause of the weed debris. I used up a whole chain before I cleaned the filter on my 362, and it only marginally needed it then. I have to knock the dust out of the echo every couple times I take it out for vines.



I don't care at all about the outside of the case. Brush off the louvers for the air intake is about it.

[doc henderson]

i clean inside the chain guard so that it can be tightened up without stuff under the case that may cause it to loosen up too quick.

[Air Lad]

I /try/ to do that, but I don't have my rag with me half the time. I still try to brush it off with a glove if there's a lot of funk on it. After that, I don't worry about cleaning it. If I slop on the saw, I figure it'll come off with use. I'm not much on cleaning saws anyway. I clean it functionally. Just get rid of the crud that can affect operation, but I don't much care what it looks like.

AT this point I am thinking poor KAR has no idea how his simple request has gone so far awry from what he hoped  :D. I think he got what he was looking for though.
Lxsklir, I don't know if you and I could work together  ;D I think cleaning saves on a lot of repair time. I was in a class a while back and the instructor took the side plate off the saw and laid it by the side as he explained the things he was teaching about. As he talked, I quietly picked up the side plate, took out my pocket knife and cleaned it off all the junks and gunks that was crammed into every corner. When he picked it put up to put in on again, he said "this isn't mine, where did I lay mine?" I told him that was his, I just cleaned it and he said I got ahead of him. Cleaning solves a lot of problems before they start, but that's just my take.

Good story and it just makes sense to try to blow/wipe/brush off dust and dirt and woodchips when opening and pouring new stuff in to any tank.
Crikey..It aint rocket surgery men  

[trapper]

Since I started using a grinder to sharpen my chains I have to take them off to sharpen.  Before putting them back on  I use my air compressor to clean the chain cover and saw.  Easier and better job than using a rag.  Wont work in the woods but normally with 2 saws I only need to sharpen at home and not have to switch chains.

[upnut]

I always keep a paint brush with the saw kit, perfect for brushing away debris from oil/fuel caps. My first job as a twenty-something year old was at a road commission, and the chainsaws were always put away clean, sharp and full of fuel in preparation for that midnight storm damaged tree in the roadway. Still have that habit.
      I agree with earlier posts about canned pre-mix fuel, it would save alot of trouble if the saws sit on the shelf as much as cut. 

Scott B.

[KAR 120C]

Well well well. That did promote quite a debate!

Thank you all for your recommendations and huge experience.

I have decided to go the sensible route and use genuine Husqvarna two stroke oil and Husqvarna's chain oil too. Regarding petrol, I will likely use "super unleaded" fuel provided by UK petrol filling stations AFTER confirming it's constituents are ethanol free.

One last question, what are the benefits of mineral vs synthetic vs semi-synthetic 2 stroke oils?

I really appreciate the input thank you again, from across the pond. 

Michael

[lxskllr]

My impression is synthetic is more robust than dino oil. Holds up to temperature longer, and flows better at all temps. I'm not a chemist, and haven't spent a lot of time studying it, so take that for what it's worth. Synthetic blends are supposed to convey some of the benefits of synthetic at a lower price. IMO, the price drop isn't enough to bother. I use full synthetic lubricants for just about everything, but if you gave me decent dino oil, I'd use it. Using my own money, I buy synthetic.

[Old Greenhorn]

One last question, what are the benefits of mineral vs synthetic vs semi-synthetic 2 stroke oils?

Well, Kar, I did warn you, and you got what you asked for and just a tad more, eh?  :D

 Now why did you go and poke the bear again? (I gotta go get more popcorn.)

[Inaotherlife]

Blue or red. Semi or full synthetic.

[Inaotherlife]

Looks like the higher end stuff like XP+ and Red Armor are semi-synthetic.

[realzed]

My impression is synthetic is more robust than dino oil. Holds up to temperature longer, and flows better at all temps. I'm not a chemist, and haven't spent a lot of time studying it, so take that for what it's worth. Synthetic blends are supposed to convey some of the benefits of synthetic at a lower price. IMO, the price drop isn't enough to bother. I use full synthetic lubricants for just about everything, but if you gave me decent dino oil, I'd use it. Using my own money, I buy synthetic.

For what is worth I asked one of my local Stihl dealers why they have a large stock always of Stihl Ultra synthetic premix, when my closer, other dealer will only carry the orange bottle regular type.
The second dealer told me "we won't bring Ultra in because people don't like the extra cost (pretty minor difference in my opinion actually) and for whatever little difference it makes it's not worth stocking it".
They did offer that they could easily get me some if I wished to buy a sizable amount of it (like a case of it ~ $100 + dollars!) if I was willing to buy that much  - otherwise they were happy to just sell the regular type!
The first dealer that stocks a lot of it, as I mentioned, told me in comparison when I asked why so much it was piled up in the showroom?.. "because the local model airplane club has found it is the only oil that they have tried that will stand up in the member's mixed-fuel aircraft engines that spin 20,000 + rpms in their planes and they say they have tried just about every brand or type available and for the cost and performance it provides them, it works best and they buy a lot of it.. so that aside, from customers like yourself who actually use it in lawn, garden, and cutting equipment, that is why we need and like to stock so much"..
That tells me - that the synthetic works a lot better to protect air cooled engines subjected to extreme rpm levels, odd-ball types of fuel mixtures, and under extreme conditions that often prove most - if not all other conventional pre-mixes incapable of providing decent protection..
I always used the Stihl Ultra, even prior to hearing that - but it certainly cemented my thinking that there is a good reason why it is good solid logic to assume it is better than all other non synthetic types - or in fact even some if not most other types of synthetic pre-mixers as well!  

[Air Lad]

Stihl dealer 1/2 mile away
He gets me 0dd parts in 2 days usually
as soon as I have burned up this semi synth Penrite ( ok stuff)
I will go for the Ultra

[logmason]

See where auto oil says "meets or accedes", It does not say that on 2 stroke oil. They could add goat pee and be legal.
I will not run outboard boat oil made for use in water cooled engines.
Remember the lawn boy 2 strokes? Every one was covered in oil, that oil does not burn through the system.
One of these days I will rebuild an old lawn boy and run saw fuel just to see if it gets oil soaked

I worked at an oil blending plant for a time. I was surprised that several brands came from the same spigot, meets or accedes.
The master blenders as they were called, when they tool oil home the brand was always,,,
military.

I try to run husqvarna, stihl, or echo. I'm sure there are others that are fine.

[Pine Ridge]

Mix Husqvarna xp with 91 octane ethanol free fuel at 40 or 50 to 1 and make the sawdust fly.

[HolmenTree]

I swear by the Stihl Premium (orange cap) we get here in  Canada. It's Castrol Super 2 Stroke blended for Stihl. I've been using it for 40 years in my saws and get decades out of my saws.


 

 

 

[Air Lad]

I swear by the Stihl Premium (orange cap) we get here in  Canada. It's Castrol Super 2 Stroke blended for Stihl. I've been using it for 40 years in my saws and get decades out of my saws.


 

 

Can't quite read the back of the bottle. Is it synthetic ?

[lxskllr]

I just mixed my first batch of PoulanPro full synthetic oil. I'll let you all know if my saws burn up  :^D

I was using Stihl HP Ultra, but I like the squeeze & measure bottle the Poulan stuff came in. Easier to mix odd size batches, and I prefer fuel mixed a little richer than 50:1. Probably doesn't matter, but it gives me the warm and fuzzies, so the minor added cost isn't a big deal, and it almost certainly won't hurt.

[Air Lad]

Yeah mate. 50 :1 was leaving my 260c looking a bit dry inside .My mate runs 32.5 :1 but too oily and smokey for mine. Am trying 40:1 at present with Penrite semi synth and an additive as will. The Ultra I will try next time.

[HolmenTree]

I swear by the Stihl Premium (orange cap) we get here in  Canada. It's Castrol Super 2 Stroke blended for Stihl. I've been using it for 40 years in my saws and get decades out of my saws.


 

 

Can't quite read the back of the bottle. Is it synthetic ?

Not synthetic,  it's  the orange cap that we call Stihl Premium here. It's rebadged Castrol Super 2 Stroke as first pic shows.
We have full synthetic Stihl Ultra also but it doesn't say Made by Castrol for Stihl like the orange cap Premium says on its back label.

[Mad Professor]

I've been using this for 45 years in all my air cooled two strokes, 50:1 or 40:1.  Never an oil issue in bikes, saws, trimmers, any air cooled 2-stroke.  I use premium non-ethanol gas or 100LL AV gas (mix lasts 2+ years)

golden spectro



 

[Al_Smith]

Okay I'll chime in .For years I used TSC branded mix oil and bar oil .Then out of the clear blue all I could find was Husqvarna brand at highway robbery prices .Humbug instead of that I just turned the other direction at the intersection and bought the stuff at a Stihl dealer at much reduced prices .Then one day I found out where TSC hid the less expensive oils .The stinkers put it someplace else so people would buy the higher priced stuff .I gave them a stiff reprimand for that trick ,rascals . >:(

[charles mann]

I have Stihl saws and use their oil.  It has a stabilizer in it.  It is good to keep fresh fuel and some advocate dumping fuel from a rarely used motor, back into a can to be used up in other things, and run the saw/motor dry to clear the carb.  I tried to buy aviation fuel for no ethanol and higher octane, but I am told it is no longer legal for private use prob. post 9/11.  

@doc henderson 
not sure who told you you can't buy av gas for private use. if its the airport/fbo manager, then so be it, you gotta abide by their rules. just find another airport to buy fuel from. i buy it at the local airport, and even jet-a for my forced air heater. i just drive on the airport, put in an N number of an acft i remember, and start pumping. even the fbo/emerg manager said to just drive on whenever i need a jug full, after i had asked for their sump waist fuel. 
now, as some have pointed out, av gas DOES have lead in it, so that is something to be cognizant of and realize the possible health affects of the fuel, but pilots and mech have been handling this stuff for MANY years, and at least the meat servos have to have a physical every yr, if they are flying commercially. so I'm sure with OSHA being involved in the avn industry, test are done to ensure that exposure to the burned fuel has minimal health risks. iv been exposed to 100LL for the past 5 yrs, and running it in the saws for the last 3, and according to the lab results, it has yet to cause any (at this time) health risks. 

[charles mann]

I /try/ to do that, but I don't have my rag with me half the time. I still try to brush it off with a glove if there's a lot of funk on it. After that, I don't worry about cleaning it. If I slop on the saw, I figure it'll come off with use. I'm not much on cleaning saws anyway. I clean it functionally. Just get rid of the crud that can affect operation, but I don't much care what it looks like.

I keep a 1.5" chip brush, some call it a paint brush, clipped on my fuel jug, just like Doc's fuel jug. when i go to fuel and oil, i simply take the brush and brush off the debris, then clip it back on the jug. a person could even just velcro it to the jug, or get them 1 of those retractable key ring reels and clip the brush to the reel. i will be using the velcro method, now that i procured some "expired" self adhesive hook/loop. 

[doc henderson]

yes Charles, I just got lady on the phone and she said fed. regs did not allow it.  I will have to find a buddy who works there.  With all the 911 regs, you have to careful who you ask to breach a reg.  Was curious if the octane would make a noticeable diff. in performance.  just like my profession, the insiders and known players can usually get around stuff,  thanks for the tag!

[charles mann]

@doc henderson ask her to show you the regs. if it was that much of a crime, or heck, even a crime at all, the local airports i utilize wouldn't allow guys with race cars to come in and get fuel, or offer up folks like me to just drive on "secured" airport and buy whatever i wanted. in whatever qty i wanted, or the racers too. there is to much at stake to loose, to sell a few gal of jet-a or 100LL. most public airports are federally funded, and if selling av gas was against the law, they could be closed by the feds. my thinking is, she didn't want joe snuffy trampling around her airport, using i need fuel as a ploy to gain access for alternative motives. granted its her show, she has the right to say who can enter. if there is such a reg, i and sure would like to see it. id hate to see my fuel depot closed down. 

if you truly want to give av gas a try, salina, wichita and newton have airports you could probably access, no questions asked. sometimes its better to drive on like you own the place and do your business and leave. 

as for noticeable difference, i can't say either way. i don't see any less fuel burn compared to pump gas, but i have noticed my spark plug stays cleaner and the non m-tronic saws i have that i run av gas in, i haven't seen an issue with carb failure, especially in my older saw. i did have to replace the carb on my jr 2166, but i ran pump gas in from the get go and after 2yrs, the carb let go. i did run av gas in it, but the damage had already been done, and when i ran out of 100ll, i bought 98 pump gas and that sealed the deal with the carb. had to replace it. need to replace the carb on my tiller too. 2 seasons of gardening and the carb, I'm assuming, bc i can crank it off either, and keep it running on gas being sprayed out of a normal spray bottle into the carb. either the fuel pump or carb crapped out, and I'm assuming the carb, since that is what usually fails nowadays. i go so far as to run av gas in my miler 225 bobcat welder, when i know i need fuel for i go to the airport, but if I'm running low, i usually send the wife to the gas station and get 98 pump gas. 

[doc henderson]

Thanks Charles.  Yeah I did not pursue it further since the bull to benefit ratio seemed too high.  

[charles mann]

Thanks Charles.  Yeah I did not pursue it further since the bull to benefit ratio seemed too high.  

i can understand that. i do that same with jobs. when bs outweighs the paycheck, i find employment elsewhere. i honestly think she was blowing smoke up the southbound factory. i use it bc there isn't a place within 45 min drive to get ethanol free gas, and the airport is 10 min. and i also talked to the stihl rep when i bought my 661 and asked about running it and warranty and after obtaining a permission slip, i run it 99% of the time. exception is when I'm not near an airport and need the fuel, i buy 98 pump gas. i used to run jet-a/jp8 in my old 06 cummins. didn't see any mpg improvement, but with 40 acft btln wide, i could obtain enough fuel sample per day to keep my tank full of fuel. i did add a qt of aft fluid to ea tank since jp8/jet is near 0 lubrication, which is why the military went to an oil based fuel filter, called a lubricity filter, to add some lubrication to the fuel.

[AZ_builder]

Is 98 common? Here in az our common gas is 91/92.

[John Mc]

Might already be in this thread somewhere, but for sources fo non-ethanol fuel in your area, check out: https://www.pure-gas.org/

[charles mann]

Is 98 common? Here in az our common gas is 91/92.

yes, 87, 92 and 98 octane, or it may be 96. I'm thinking 99%, its 98. 

Might already be in this thread somewhere, but for sources fo non-ethanol fuel in your area, check out: https://www.pure-gas.org/

not sure if this was meant for me, but thanks anyways. i hadn't checked this site in a while and it looks like the station just added ethanol free gas at the 2018, which just a few more min down the road past the airport. ill compare prices between it and av gas. if its relatively the same cost, ill stick with the av gas. not sure what it is, but just like them old 6.9 and 7.3 ih diesels and the 06 and older cummins, i love the smell of the diesel fumes, same for jet and av gas. i hate the smell of regular ole' gas fumes. makes my stomach churn smelling it, while its being pumped and def when its being burned in an auto.  

[John Mc]

Might already be in this thread somewhere, but for sources fo non-ethanol fuel in your area, check out: https://www.pure-gas.org/

not sure if this was meant for me, but thanks anyways. i hadn't checked this site in a while and it looks like the station just added ethanol free gas at the 2018, which just a few more min down the road past the airport. ill compare prices between it and av gas. if its relatively the same cost, ill stick with the av gas. not sure what it is, but just like them old 6.9 and 7.3 ih diesels and the 06 and older cummins, i love the smell of the diesel fumes, same for jet and av gas. i hate the smell of regular ole' gas fumes. makes my stomach churn smelling it, while its being pumped and def when its being burned in an auto.  

It was up there for whomever might need it. They do change from time to time.

AvGas (100LL) is usually significantly more expensive than any fuel sold for street vehicles. In my area of Vermont, AvGas ranges from $4.75 to just under $6 per gallon. Regular auto gas (87 Octane) is about $2.35, Non-ethanol premium (91 Octane) usually adds something like 20¢ per gallon. It's been a while since I've checked the non-ethanol prices, so that may be off a bit, but it's in the ballpark.
I see on my aviation gas price finder that prices are cheaper in your area, but I suspect auto gas prices are less expensive as well.