Buying local vs. huge chain stores

[sprucebunny]

This is just my experience and your mileage may vary...

I decided to buy a welder cause I got a new toy that needs welding. I'd always wanted one but had no idea what to buy. A friend helped me pick a model that the huge retailer HD offers for $387.00 on thier web site. After calling eleven stores and not finding that welder , I called customer service ,who called one of the stores that I had called and when they didn't have the one I wanted , tried to sell me a different one !! Then he got me the price to ship it :$66.14
Then I looked in the yellow pages and called the 2 places listed in "Welding Supplies"The first one wanted $ 475 and the second one ; Merriam Graves wanted $ 452.88. This is less than the same model from HD (including shipping ) by a few cents.
More importantly, I drive by the store several days a week and can feel a lot surer of getting a tool that hasn't been dropped and , in the future , service from a knowledgeable person. ;)
The point is....what good are low prices when shipping is high or the product just isn't available ???

I often feel that we are being brainwashed by advertising into thinking that paying less is much more important than supporting smaller, local or regional retailers who offer fair prices and much better service and support.   

[dewwood]

I could not have said it better myself. 

[Fla._Deadheader]

  I gotta agree 100% 8) ;D ;D

[old3dogg]

Sometimes it takes a little more effort to find good buys at the local small places but the time is worth it.The small time local guy wants you to keep coming back so he is going to work harder for you.The big shameless, huge retailers really dont care about you because they have thousands more to take your place if you dont buy from them.
This has been my argument about places like Wal Mart,McDonalds and the like for years.
They dont care because they dont have to!
I support the local,small,mom and pop joints every chance I get.

[Phorester]

Yep.

[Tom]

I'm not going to cut off my nose to spite my face, but if I can spend my money locally, that's what I will do.  A great deal of your dollar spent at the big Department Stores or home repair stores, ends up in the coffers of the corporate entity, rather than in your hometown were it will be cycled so that you might get it again.

Today I spent $136 on V-belts at my "independent parts store".  I actually saved a little money over buying out of state or over the net, or from the national parts place.  I'll see that money again because I didn't let it leave the city.  I can't help that so much is made over-seas.  I can help who I reward for handling it though.

[old3dogg]

Amen Tom!

[Saki]

Everything mentioned above sure rings true. Another thing that really hasn't made it through is CHOICE. By supporting the local businesses and keeping somebody in business besides the big boxes or walmart you know that you will always have the option ( at least in my area ) of driving 5 minutes and supporting locally, or going 25 minutes one way to a big store. If we don't keep our local folks going, won't be long before we HAVE TO go to the big retailers.  Also lots of times the teenager trying to help you at the big box won't know his " adze from his elbow" or something like that.  ;D ;D ;D Good luck with your new toy. Saki

[Fraxinus]

  A great deal of your dollar spent at the big Department Stores or home repair stores, ends up in the coffers of the corporate entity

That "corporate entity" is part of what is keeping my 401(k) healthy.
I'm not disagreeing with the sentiment that it's good to buy local but don't fall for the idea that corporations are not people.  Corporations are people, people just like you and me.
Everybody's gotta eat.

[thecfarm]

I went to HD looking for 16 penny gavl box spikes,50 lbs.Spent 15 minutes on my own trying to find them,no luck.Spent 10 minutes to find a person to help me,took them a minute to tell me if the spikes are not here,we don't have any.I ask the price,lets say $41.95.I leave with nothing.I went to a small lumber yard,asked for 16 penny gavl box spikes,50 lbs.I left in less than 5 minutes and they was a couple dollars cheaper.You have to be careful.Some things are cheaper at the big places,but the little guy can do alot at times.This isn't the first time this has happened to me.

[crtreedude]

When we first arrived here in Costa Rica about 7 months ago one of the hardest things for me was that when I would wander into a store, everyone wanted to help me.  This was welcome after the experiences I had in NJ where finding a clerk was pretty hard - almost like they were hiding.

What wasn't so fun was that my Spanish was far from good - so a clerk would come up and say something fast and I would have no idea what he said. I learn real quick to say "solo ver" which means, Only to see.

I recently needed a belt and went to a leather store and got one hand made while I waited - for about 8 dollars. 

It has been my experience that here people are just waiting to take care of you - carry things to your car, and basicly make you feel like they were happy you shopped with them.

We recently had a large store "Maxi Bodega" go in, but I notice it isn't exactly having great business - the feria has better produce, and a lot cheaper - besides, it is a lot more fun.

If you go to the Central Valley, you can find large businesses that will ignore you just like in the USA - but I haven't had the urge yet. ;-)

We have an account with a hardware store so normally Hector or I just pick things up and once a month, pay off the tab. If we pay on time (30 days) we get a 10% discount - you can bet we pay on time!  :D

One of the biggest shocks being here is that I am treated like a person, not just a potential customer.  It takes a bit getting used to. It also means, in a city of 40,000 people, when I walk into a store and they don't have it and say they will find it - they will drop it off at my house - and they know where my house is!  Gives you the willies the first time it happens, I'll have you know.

Our daughter was down doing some work for me last year and went to a town 20 kilometers away to pickup mail. Walked into the postoffice and someone walked up to her - who she had never seen  before and gave her something. It was the mail for our partner's wife. 

In our neck of the jungle - there are only a few Gringos - we are pretty obvious!  I am still trying to squash the rumors from Harold's visit....    :D

[Percy]

Ya , we got the WAL-Mart up here in the sticks as well, about a year ago. It has hurt some of the local businesses bad  but some of the local businesses have done very well since the big box joint opened up. More people comming to town, more hotels, restaraunts yaddayadda. Nudder thing I learned/noticed is they only sell the cheap stuff. If you want an uptown TV, you have to go somewhere else to buy it as  they(WAL MART) only stock lower to mid line stuff.  Anyone who chooses to compete with Wamart will probably lose, unfortunatley. Most people I know will buy the lowest price, all things else being equal, and me too probably.  The stores that sell the good stuff, higher end equipment, will do fine I think. I like the good stuff ;D ;D

[Ron Wenrich]

You get what you pay for.  Walmart has those real cheap prices on stuff in the aisles that lure you to the higher priced stuff.   I can get hardware cheaper at the local Ace strore than I can at Lowe's.

But, there's one thing I can't get at the box stores.  Yes, they have better selection, but, they can't tell me any of the local doings.  Those small mom and pop stores are great rumor mills.  Some of its true, some not.  But, you can't buy good conversation.  Its something that those mom and pops give out for free.

[crtreedude]

Walmart is not my choice for shopping if I can avoid it.   :( I picked up some jeans there before we came here and they fell apart - I have other jeans that I purchased that are hanging together very well. As you say Ron, you get what you pay for.

Conversation is so important - my morning ritual is to walk down to the local soda (small restaurant) and have a cafe con leche or two while shooting the breeze with the owner. We all have a good ole time -  and my Spanish improves.  I have made some very good friends that way too.

It has been a bit of an eye-opener for me. When we lived in NJ - there never seemed to be enough time to get to know anyone - and if you made the time, they other person didn't have much. Here, everyone has time for you and you for them.

We are always having a fiesta down on the finca for someone - nothing really special - just kill a pig or something and have chicarrones (pork rinds - fresh) with tortillas and limes and perhaps a few beer.  Throw some yuca in there and it is all pretty good.

The problem with getting our lives too efficient is that we lose the interaction with others.  The charm of the smaller communities is the fact everyone knows each other.

A quick example - recently we had someone visit the finca (not Harold) and when leaving, they asked Hector - I assume there a few people here that you have to keep an eye on.  Hector thought for a while and said, no - everyone living here are good people.  And I believe he is right.

Now - I will say when I see one gentleman coming on the dirt road, I move to the side - I KNOW how he got his license - and it wasn't from passing a test!

Fred

[redpowerd]

off topic, what did you get for a welder? my buddy, coincedentally works at walmart, is looking for one and said wallmart had a deal on them. i told him to hang on and we will find him one of higher quality and proly less cash. mig.

as for the comments on big chains, thats exactly why potsdam ny banned wallmart. they have so many main street stores that do very well, they dont want wallmart around. wallmart has been trying for years to get into potsdam. many folks like wallmart for their prices and lobby to get wallmart into potsdam, their just not concerned with what it may do to the local economy. brainwashed is a good way to put it.

[sawguy21]

Fraxinus, sure they are people but are they always NICE people, concerned for the customers and the communities they serve? They recently refused arbitration and closed the store in Jonquiere, Quebec rather than deal honestly with the workers in the first unionized Walmart. I am not getting into a pro or anti union discussion here but I shop as much as possible at the locally owned business unless the price is way out of line. After all, I work in one. I wont patronize Walmart or H-D
I purchased a 100' extension cord at a local building supply. It was half the price of Canadian Tire, better quality, and the connectors were installed and weatherproof. This I like!!!

[MrMoo]

Couldn't agree with you more Spruce. I always try to support the small local businesses. In New Hampshire we have added incentive because we don't have the sales tax. Without that most times it makes no sense to order online and pay for shipping.

[leweee]

That "corporate entity" is part of what is keeping my 401(k) healthy.
I'm not disagreeing with the sentiment that it's good to buy local but don't fall for the idea that corporations are not people.  Corporations are people, people just like you and me.
Everybody's gotta eat.

Those big box stores hire part-time labour(no benefits) for minimum wage. People in China are starting to eat better than we do There is a hidden cost for the precived benefits of shopping at the big box. When you consume more than you produce(trade defacite)the money flows in the wrong direction :'( jmo

[Corley5]

Our local Carter's IGA stores closed after the Supercenters moved in.  It's too bad.  Well paid members of the Grocer's Union lost their jobs :( because Wal-Mart doesn't pay decent wages.  I'm guilty of patronizing the big store.  We can't sensibly afford to shop elsewhere especially when it comes to groceries.  Prices for some items are almost half of what locally owned supermarkets charge.  All the Chinese made stuff in the dept half of Wal Mart bothers me and we seldom buy from that side of the store.  It's the cheap stuff they sell from that side that enables them to sell food so cheap on the other side.  I'd rather go to an Ace Hardware or the like but these small stores are few and far between up here now and the hours of the ones that are still operating make it hard to get to them when they're open.  A new Lowes just opened in Gaylord and I like it.  The staff is friendly, helpful, actually knowledgeable and the store is bright.  All the HDs that I've been are just the opposite

[Buzz-sawyer]

I liked our local LOOWES for the forst 2-3 months.....then they stopped acting like they cared about helping or doin business..as usual....
On our St Luis news the lead story last night was that, LOCAL grocery closes up due to NEW walmart.

[Buzz-sawyer]

Leweee said
Those big box stores hire part-time labour(no benefits) for minimum wage. People in China are starting to eat better than we do  There is a hidden cost for the precived benefits of shopping at the big box. When you consume more than you produce(trade defacite)the money flows in the wrong direction
Buzz says, You are right, and the odd and troubling recent occurance is that we are ALSO Chinas 3rd world Raw material suppliers...so they can manufacture and send it back to us...WE NEED TO BUILD STUFF.!

[IndyIan]

Speaking of Walmart, they just closed a store in Quebec because they had organized a union.  Walmart says the store was not "profitable" but they just don't want unions in their stores. 

Now I know not all of you are in favour of unions but Walmart is a perfect example of where they are needed.  Minimum wage and no benefits is a hard way to make a living and sharing some of the wealth with the "associates" would not hurt Sam Walton one bit.  Funneling all the money to him doesn't do anyone any good at all. 

I'm sure Walmart lost money on closing the store in Quebec and hopefully more stores will unionize making it "a good business decision" to pay people a decent wage instead of closing a store everytime they unionize.

Ian

[crtreedude]

What is weird is the ease of communications should be driving things the other way - not to bigger and bigger stores, but to speciality stores since I can easy find, near to me, whatever I am looking for.

But, instead, we are seeing more and more monster stores - where instead of search for a store, you can search for a thing in a monster store - or search for someone to tell you where to find it.

The problem with so many of these monster stores is they start off killing the competition with low prices, and then when they don't have competition any more, expect your prices to go up.

Educating people on what will happen a few years down the road is a challenge, most people vote the "hip-pocket nerve" as a friend of mine used to say.

[Dana]

My town is a tourist town. The down town has Charlevoix shirts, [the town name ] fudge and ice cream. There is an Ace Hardware (located out of town in the township] and other than that two grocery store's that were  local Glens, and Olsens they have been bought out by Spartan Food Stores out of Grand Rapids Mi but kept their names to seem local. in the summer our population swells to 30,000 plus and Walmart wanted to put in a store. Several local business men and the kids from high school started a stop Walmart group and were sucessful. They used a its our town logo and got a lot of publicity. Walmart decided to pull out due to all the negative pr. Now that they are out of the picture the local hardware store once again gives poor service, (unlike when the competition was coming) Our money for food and clothing still leaves our comunity forGrand Rapids 150 miles, Petoskey 20 miles away or Gaylord and Traverse City 50 miles away. I wonder if Wallmart had come to town how much of the money would have stayed in town due to the jobs and related infastructure that results?

[leweee]

What is weird is the ease of communications should be driving things the other way - not to bigger and bigger stores, but to speciality stores since I can easy find, near to me, whatever I am looking for.

But, instead, we are seeing more and more monster stores - where instead of search for a store, you can search for a thing in a monster store - or search for someone to tell you where to find it.

The problem with so many of these monster stores is they start off killing the competition with low prices, and then when they don't have competition any more, expect your prices to go up.

Educating people on what will happen a few years down the road is a challenge, most people vote the "hip-pocket nerve" as a friend of mine used to say.

Those precieved  benefits of the big box disappear as fast as the competition. Prices rise, employees live " hand to mouth" & service suffers :'(

[Frickman]

I buy local almost all the time for the reasons already listed. In fact, I know on a first name basis the owner of almost every establishment I patronize. Even the bank. Many of us here on the forum are small businessman ourselves and we appreciate folks coming to see us instead of the big box stores. A friend gave me a gift card from Lowe's over Christmas and let me tell you, I had to practically ring my purchase up myself. Not only wouldn't the store personnel help me find what I needed, I had to twist their arm just to ring up my purchase. My local Ace store would never treat me this way, so I take most of my business to them.

I don't want to get anyone wound up here, but I've never heard of anyone being forced at gunpoint to work at Wal-Mart, HD, etc., they are there of their own free will. If they do not feel that they are being treated well as an employee they are free to take their services elsewhere.  In our area many of the part-timers are folks who don't want to work full-time, and are working for something to do or as supplemental income. I know alot of ladies with school age kids who love Wal-Mart because they can work a few hours in the middle of the day, just to get themselves out of the house. Wal-Mart is open 24 hours/day and is very flexible in scheduling shifts. Also, some people work there because it is not the most strenuous place to work, physically or mentally. I have tried in the past to hire people away from Wal-Mart with nearly double the pay and benefits and they turned me down because they'd have to actually work.

Ok Frickman, get down off your soapbox.

[farmerdoug]

The thing that gets me is that when you ar just looking around you will have 6 employees ask you if you need any help at these big box stores.  But when you need help there is noone around even if you look in the two aisles on either side of the aisle you are in.

As far as the employees go I read about Walmart making people punch out and then work on their own time.  They wer suing in a class action suit.  All I can say if someone told me that I had to punch out then work on my own time I would be five minutes late for the door and would come back one time for my last pay check.

[farmerdoug]

One other thing that really bothers me about Lowes, HD and Walmart is their pay-at-scan policy that they have adopted this year.  It is starting with nursery plants this year but will probably cover everything in a few years.  What it is as a company you ship your products(in this case plants) to the retailer but you do not get paid until it crosses the scanner at the checkout line.  If it does not sell you do not get paid period.  All of the profit but no risk for the big retailer.  Plus if you are a medium to large supplier you have to deliver, stock and maintain the stock(ie. water, answer questions for the customers) which means you need to have an employee of your own at their store 40 hours per week.  If you look at all of the big retailers the supply companies supply stockers for the main sellers like soda pop, beer, chips, baked goods, and many other items.

Sorry for the rant but the small stores are easier to work with both as a seller and buyer.

[WH_Conley]

Stopped at the new Lowes other day, interested in a framing nailer, found what I wanted, Porter Cable, priced right. Could't find nails, asked dept manager, said didn't havem, haven't sold one of those nailers yet

[Cedarman]

Try ordering a hamburger at McD's at 7:30 AM.  I can get a great one at any of 3 local cafes, they look at me a little strange, but bring it with a smile.  I want my hashed browns with chopped onions, no problem.  They have it figured out.

Read in the paper that the US manufactured more goods last year than 2 years ago.  We still manufacture a huge amount, we just do it with a lot fewer people, which is why the number of people working in manufacturing is down.

We have our cedar mill in Indiana and my son's in Alabama.  Between us we have wood that ends up in every Lowe's, Wal-Mart and Target store in the US.  Mailbox posts at Lowe's, the little triangles in the gables of cedar bird feeders and bird houses at Wal-Mart, and the cedar sawdust in the kitty litter in Target.  The two companies that we sell to that process our raw material into saleable products could not be better.  They have always treated us great.  One is a huge multinational.  But I do not have to deal at all with the huge retailers.

I agree with those who say service is lousy at the big box stores.  Retailers can not be all things to all people, that is why the mom and pop stores can survive by figuring out how to serve their customers in ways the big stores can not.

We can rant and rave all we want, but we the people vote with our wallets. It is my job as a business man to adapt to the situation at hand rather than the one I wish it to be.

If a person thinks they are mistreated by the company they work for, they should immediately begin the search for another job, get the education they need and never let themselves be in a position of having to have that job. I have always felt it is up to the individual to control their destiny.

So much for my ranting.

[etat]

If a person thinks they are mistreated by the company they work for, they should immediately begin the search for another job, get the education they need and never let themselves be in a position of having to have that job. I have always felt it is up to the individual to control their destiny.

Truer words were never spoken. 

[tnlogger]

 cederman dont see any ranting in what you said at all makes sence too me  :D
i have a freind of my sons that worked at the new walmart they put in here.
he keeps conplaning that he's still part time and been working there about 2yrs. 39 hrs aweek no more no less. he said they do that to keep the benifits down.
i told the boy if you dont like the way they treat you get another job simple as that it's up too you.
              gene

[UNCLEBUCK]

Before thanksgiving I wasted 6 weeks trying to get a small construction to finish my shack because I paid cash as I built until I ran out of big money so I went to big banks with brokers and was promised the world and closing costs exceeding 5 grand so finally I had enough and went into my small town hometown bank with nothing in my pockets and not a dime to spare and they welcomed me and a week later the deal was done and they said get busy and finish your shack so we can see your fiance !  Heres a better one , I bought 156 sheets of sheetrock from a big store and delivered so I says where is the drywall lifting machine you promised I could use ,they said it got stolen , so I went to my hometown lumberyard and rented one and when I finished using it they only charged me half the rate they quoted me , boy did I feel like a loser after that but small town local stuff is good but its fun to look at stuff at menards or home depot . I hope you get a good welder S.B. . I need one too , been thinking about a Lincoln ac/dc stick welder . Not many women out buying welders these days !

[sprucebunny]

That's what I'm getting 'BUCK...Lincoln 225/125 model 1297
The Merriam-Graves says that they always keep one of these in stock.
Until I called them , I thought that M-G just sold medical gasses and supplies ???  :

[Dan_Shade]

I have a love hate relationship with the box stores.

around here, the help sucks at the mom and pop stores and they cost more.  Walmart and Lowes aren't much better.  If you want something at lowes, you better know what you need, and where it is in the store, but most of the stuff is cheaper.

mark me up as a box store buyer, even if I don't want to support them.

[Cedarman]

Dan_Shade, I'll bet you're mom and pop stores are blaming all their problems on the big box stores instead of looking inward.  What if those mom and pop stores gave you great service even if they cost more?

[Dan_Shade]

it depends on what they do, i guess.

but you are right, friendlyness and such go a long way to making you want to do business with someone.  there's a chance for that at a small store, the box stores will never have that to a large extent.

[Patty]

This topic has been discussed many times on the forum. I guess the only reason I can see why the big stores are able to "take away" business from the mom & pops is because they are filling a need that the mom & pops couldn't or didn't want to fill. In my situation, as I have mentioned before, it is convenience. I work at a day job for 10 hours every week day. The local mom & pops are closed when I go to work and closed again when I go home, they are open for a short time on Saturday (usuallly until noon) and then closed on Sundays. When in the world am I supposed to shop there if they keep the same hours that I do? I can't think of too many folks who have day jobs, that can take off for an hour or so to shop, during working hours.(I would even skip my lunch to shop, but I don't take a lunch break.) If the mom & pops were even open, I might consider going there, but they have made my mind up for me by being closed when I am free to shop.

The big box stores would never have been able to grow so large if they weren't filling a void.

[Tom]

That's always been one of my complaints too.  The Government runs by those rules as well.

It looks like anybody running a business would be interested in "serving" a customer.  Without floor traffic, you might as well close your doors.   .....and they do.

There is an old adage that goes something like "You are in business for the customer, not, that the customer is there so that you can be in business.'

I would still like to keep as much of my shopping dollar at home if I could.

I respect the fact that the big stores use local labor and that "some" of the dollar does remain.  The Majority of it goes to build stores in other areas, to pay corporate management in some big city, etc, etc. 

I have a friend who had an Air conditioning company and I feel better about his house being built with customer dollars than those dollars building a house in Chicago, New York or Arkansas.

There is a place for the big stores, I just think we should not forget our local entrepreneurs, assuming that they aren't trying to forget us.

I've a Friend who owns an Ace Hardware.  I've tried to do business with him and can't.  He depends on  the price tags that corporate in Texas puts on his items and will not reprice, re-tag, or shop locally to find out if his prices are high.  They are high, exorbitantly high.  He blames Wal-Mart down the road for his lack of business when it's his own fault.  It's not that he can't compete, it's that he won't.

[pigman]

I shop at the stores that are best for me. Until recently I never shopped at big box stores because there was none close enough. Now we have a WallyWorld only 6 miles away and a Lowes 12 miles away. Great I thought, now I can buy things cheaper.   Like Patty said, they are sometimes convenient. But they do not seem to be cheaper  on the same quality things. Last Fall I went to Lowes to buy decking material for my daughter's house. The sales person was polite and quite knowledgble of the materials I needed;  decking boards ballisters, joist hangers, deck screws, joists, etc. He  rang up the order efficiently, then the problems started. >:( First he could not load the material out without a  forklift and none was available. After about an hour he got a forklift but he had to have another employee watch for him before he could load my materials. After thirty minutes he found someone and started loading. He than reported to me that they didn't have the joists I had already paid for. :( No problem, just put the credit back on my card. Then he hands me a form with a question on why I was returning the purchase. I told him I couldn't return the joists, I never got them. He said if I didn't give a reason he couldn't credit my account.  >:(So  I wrote that their invisible joists would not meet the building code.
After two hours got finished at Lowes and went one mile down the road to a small lumber yard to get my joists. Not only was I loaded in less than 10 minutes, to my surprise they were 15% cheaper than  the ones I "returned" at Lowes. :
In some situations I'm sure things would have been reversed, so I just buy where it is best for me.
Bob

[Buzz-sawyer]

My dislike for the mega lumber yards goes back.....20+ years.
I have been a renovation contractor for that time , and as part of my earlier years , getting materials was a near daily procedure....one that never failed to tire me more than any other chore of the day!
It is like entering a time warp.......what should take ten minutes takes 40 min.   A QUICK   in and out is an hour long drama to get whats needed!

I have a few small lumber yards in the smaller communities that get you in and out....and that is worth MONEY!


In the evolution of a store or chains life they enter the market fill a niche and then eventually become dissafected lazy and indifferent to customers, then a new business comes along and fills the need better.

I like shopping at the chain stores when they first open..all the employess humpin to serve, prices at cost.....AHHH best of all worlds.....still takes 1 hour minimum

[Dan_Shade]

I worked at a hardware store in my late highschool/early college days.

we would get together orders for good customers if they called us ahead of time, they'd walk in the door, pick up the box, sign the ticket, and be on their way.  when time is money, that sort of thing matters.

[SwampDonkey]

I'de like to shop locally for things I need. But, time and time again it's a big let down. Something as simple as a box of screws, # 8's for instance. they wouldn't have. SO after a while person gets tired of the run around and just goes to the big box store. I won't say that the experience at these big chains is always great either. It's hard to get great service most of the time and I never seen a store like, Kent Building Supplies so full of employees ,that make themselves scarce when you need them.  : I'm with Buzz, ya gotta count on at least a 40 minute ordeal to get even a sheet of plywood. :

BTW, I find a great deal of difference in prices at Walmart USA compared to Walmart Canada. In Walmart Canada the price is usually within a couple dollars for items compared to local mom & pop stores if they stock it. If the local shop has the item in stock, a person has to factor in the cost of the extra gas to go over to Walmart to save that 2 bucks. I know alot of folks that overlook this as long as they get that few cents difference. sheesh : In the USA Walmart I find their produce doesn't look as good as the local grocery chain. I have a friend down in Va who won't even buy food at Walmart.  Like Patty, I do like the fact that Walmart has longer hours to shop then the mom and pop shops. Actually, in the cities around here the downtown shops close up sooner than the malls. I suspect that's the same in every town. We had two Walmarts open up here this January and now there is a 3rd one on the way 20 minutes closer to home. The town that this new one is coming to hasn't had much of a down town for years anyway. And I don't think what is there for shops will be affected, they just don't stock alot of the same items. Our local walmarts aren't super centres, not much different than Zellers or Kmarts. Funny, I went to one of the new Walmarts looking for drinking glasses and they never had anything except beer and wine glasses. :

[UNCLEBUCK]

Hey S.B did you go through with purchasing your new lincoln welder ? I never welded with d/c before but have heard its a real treat .  Lets see some pictures of that hometown welder there  ;D

[Karl_N.]

A friend told me recently that one of the reasons items are cheaper at stores like Home Depot is that they are made specially for that store. For instance, H D contracts Dewalt to make a drill that they can sell for $99.99. Dewalt complies and calls it the mz22 or whatever. You go to the local hardware store and see the same model mz22 on the floor for $149.99 and say to yourself; "Jeez I can get that a lot cheaper at H.D." But it really isn't the same drill even if it has the same model number. Something in the H D model has been altered to make it cheaper. Seems underhanded to me.

[sawguy21]

Karl, we ran into that this winter. We had some snowblowers come into the shop for warranty because the flywheels were not equipped with ring gears for electric start. Turns out Tecumseh did this to keep the price down for the Murray machines going into H- D and there are no gear equipped flywheels for this particular engine. The local store is mad at us and telling the customers we are jerks for not honouring warranty:

[Cedarman]

Our major customer is told what price they must meet in order to sell to one of the big box stores. You either have to be more effecient and productive or use cheaper parts in making an item.  I firmly believe a Wal-Mart tape measure is of inferior quality vs. Ace Hardware.  I have been wanting to get 2 of same model from each store and see which lasts longest.

[SwampDonkey]

Those cheap Apex portable DVD players at Walmart are junk, mine didn't last a year and I enquired with Apex about fixing it and shipping and labor was more than a brand new one.  >:(

[Ironwood]

Good an lively discussions folks.

A couple points, the idea of a person quitting their job to find a better one one is known as "employment at will" in business circles. And if ever there was a good cause for a union during my generation (I am 38) this Walmart crap seems like it to me. Seemingly planned and cooordinated denial of treating people fairly.

As for the 401k being bolstered, it is because most 401's benefit from corporate bottom lines, too bad this  means that some degree of quality of life suffers around us. Don't even get me started on the living/working conditions in some of the third world countries producing the low end stuff. It a human rights and enviromental catastrophy. Shame of it is the US consumes a good share of that garbage. Speaking of which have you driven around some places and seen what we as America throw out everyday? Makes me ill, kinda makes you think that we deserve some of the less desirable lables we get.    Which, by the way I serve on the board of a non-profit used building material warehouse here in Pittsburgh (my act locally, gig). Check out www.constructonjunction.org.

As for prices, check the cost of BAR OIL, or 2 CYCLE mix oil at the box store, Lowes is charging WAY more than the "local" (20 miles) professional saw shop I patronize. Try telling a H-D clerk you want full chisel skip tooth chain for your machine, you might as well be speaking French. The bait and switch on products mentioned about the Dewal t drill does happen and the Alco gutter and down spouts I bought at Lowes were junk compared to the ones I could/ should have bought at Home depot. That is one of the ways they get around the price matching game, that is to say they have the vendor tweak the product or packaging enough to make it not apples for apples.

Free and full competion is what our system is based upon but the huge machines of the "BOX STORE" do pose a interesting dynamic in the free market system. The push to have store vendors "paying at the scanner" and organizing store isles is a great example of the power shift into the hands of the few and powerful marketers.................after all that is all they become in the end, no significant links to the communities, no risk in inventory purchase and will leave town or you as a supplier in the drop of a hat.



                    I'll get off my soap box now, REID

[jjmk98k]

Back to buying local or big stores..

A few years ago I started looking for a camp in northcentral PA.

Going to the big stores was not going to help me out, I hit the small "mom and pop" stores, spent time talking to the owners and spent a fortune buying supplies there, but in the end they gave me a tips on camps in the area and which camps to stay away from. In the end they really helped me find the camp I was looking for. I get all the gossip and made some good freiends that i can count on. 

Lowes prices are not any better where I live than the dealer. Sometimes the dealer is more, sometimes less.

But for the extra price i get a service guy who remembers my name, gives me deals when he can and I support a local guy and his retirement.  When I took my Husqvarna 350 there for its initial carb adjustment, he did it while I waited and did it for free, even when i did not buy it at his shop! ( bought it on clearance , new in box ( package was damaged, saw was not, not even a scratch) for $240 at Lowes, who would not have?

That small gesture made me become a steady customer.  I now have a new gas Trimmer ( Husky 326 RJX)  and push mower on order from his shop.

Now, if I can buy "clearance" Husqvarna chains, bars and lubes at half off or better at lowes because they discontinued them, thats another story. Ill still buy it there, but if it's all full price, Ill buy from the small shop.

[jjmk98k]

just another example,

Chain and bar oil, Husq brand

Lowes         $7.45
Local shop  $6.25

[Cedarman]

A fellow who supplies one of the big big box stores was talking to a battery rep.  He said he would always buy his batteries at a regular store because the batteries at the big box store where a cheaper made battery by his company. He said check the packaging at both places and there should be a difference on the same brand.  Would be easy to test batteries from different stores to see if there is a quality difference.

[jjmk98k]

I did a search, there are

13 wal-marts within 25 miles of where I live.

8 Home depots

15 Lowes

15 dealers that carry Husqvarna products or at least services them ( not couting any Lowes).

yeah, its crowded around here

[Patty]

We have a little store about 10 miles from us that deserves to stay open forever. If it weren't for the Gingersnap, the whole town would have dried up and blown away by now. Patty, the owner, is a local gal, so she knows what it takes to serve the locals. She is open 7 days a week from 7:00AM to 10:00PM, and she sells everything. In her little store is a restaurant, a grocery store, a gas station, a hardware store, clothing store, and loads of horse supplies. (Patty raises Paints) She even sells the coldest beer in the area.  If a store was ever meant to serve the locals, it is the Gingersnap. This gal figured out that in rural Iowa you gotta be everything to everybody to survive, and survive she has. My hat is off to her, I can't imagine the hours that gal puts in, and we locals sure do appreciate her.  8)

[SwampDonkey]

Patty,

Except for the restaurant part, I was in a little store last fall outside of Moncton that sold everything. I got a pair of como letter gloves for half the price Walmart sells them at.  I'm still wearing them and the've been warm all winter. They aren't ment for handling wood of brush, I just wear them for warmth and all I hold is a PDA in the woods in one hand and a survey pole or wedge prism in the other. They are great for taking on and off alot, not bulky.

Anyway, to get back to the store, I wish we had one in every town with the stuff this place carries.  There used to be one out in the back country in the middel of a rural community that even carried chinaware, where my grandmother would go to buy 'Freindly Village' dishes. The store was 40 miles from her home. I think the old guy that ran that store was almost 100 years old before they closed it up. I know toward the end he could barely get around. :D