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Author Topic: What's the going rate for customer provided timbers?  (Read 799 times)

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Offline Sedgehammer

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What's the going rate for customer provided timbers?
« on: February 15, 2019, 08:02:47 PM »
We're looking at buying some 2x8x20', 3x12x20' and 24', 9x9x10', 12x12x10', 12' and 18' RCDF and have found a kiln that can dry it. So are wondering what a fair price per board ft would be for them to charge?

Plus what kind of reject can one expect on average, so we know how much to over order. We're having to drive 12 hours to get it, so are trying to plan ahead as much as possible.

Thanks

Offline Southside logger

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Re: What's the going rate for customer provided timbers?
« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2019, 08:37:47 PM »
What kind of wood and what type of kiln?  I would expect different rates for some of those, a 12 x 12 is a massive chunk of wood to dry.  
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Offline Brad_bb

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Re: What's the going rate for customer provided timbers?
« Reply #2 on: February 15, 2019, 09:06:30 PM »
Anything thicker than 3.25 inches, as far as I know, cannot be kiln dried.  Too thick.  Maybe a vacuum kiln might be able to, but it would be costly.  Ask them what they are doing with them.  Timbers that thick are usually used green and you account for shrinkage.
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Offline Sedgehammer

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Re: What's the going rate for customer provided timbers?
« Reply #3 on: February 15, 2019, 11:49:23 PM »
Anything thicker than 3.25 inches, as far as I know, cannot be kiln dried.  Too thick.  Maybe a vacuum kiln might be able to, but it would be costly.  Ask them what they are doing with them.  Timbers that thick are usually used green and you account for shrinkage.

Didn't ask them about how thick they could dry. They've only had it for 6 months, but I'll ask

It wouldn't be a problem to use the 9x9's or the 12x12's green

You pointed out in another thread about using non symmetrical green wood and that it was a no, no, so trying to get it dried

What kind of wood and what type of kiln?  I would expect different rates for some of those, a 12 x 12 is a massive chunk of wood to dry.  
Doug fir

Dunno in type of kiln, but I'll ask

They said it's by board foot in pricing


Online Don P

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Re: What's the going rate for customer provided timbers?
« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2019, 11:51:35 AM »
I don't know that you got an answer the other day. I would want the 2x and 3x material to be FOHC, free of heart center, to decrease checking. This is commonly available in Dougfir.

If you kerf the hidden side of the larger timbers it will usually cause the inevitable checking in those timbers to happen there.
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Re: What's the going rate for customer provided timbers?
« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2019, 03:08:44 PM »
I'll check on that

Only hidden would be on top and kerf meaning slightly cut into the wood & how deep?

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Re: What's the going rate for customer provided timbers?
« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2019, 06:12:30 PM »
I thought the 9x9's and 12x12's were posts? Kerfing a rectangle typically won't do much for you, a check follows the path of least work, the shortest distance from bark to heart. What I'm saying is don't kerf a 4x12 rafter, buy a FOHC one. In a squarish timber the kerf is providing that shortest distance. IIRC a kerf is code limited to 1/4 depth. 
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Re: What's the going rate for customer provided timbers?
« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2019, 09:39:53 PM »
Yes, you are correct. My bad. Forgot about those..... smiley_whacko

Gotcha  smiley_thumbsup

Thanks

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Re: What's the going rate for customer provided timbers?
« Reply #8 on: February 16, 2019, 09:51:29 PM »
I am sawing mostly Red Oak 12X12's, 6X12's, 8X8's, and 4X8's for porch posts for my current customer.  They are being installed green as they are being sawn.  Yes, they are cracking but that is normal and expected.  The timbers that I sawed a year ago look fabulous.

I can take some closeup pictures but I will not be back at that location until the 25th.
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Offline Sedgehammer

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Re: What's the going rate for customer provided timbers?
« Reply #9 on: February 20, 2019, 09:43:52 PM »
The kiln place got back to me.

$0.35 per board ft is what they quoted.


Quote
It's a de-humidification kiln that runs at 120 degrees while slowly drawing moisture out. The final two days we raise the temperature to approx 140 degrees to kill any bugs, insects, etc.

The mill got back to me, they said I can order whatever I want, so FOHC is not a problem on the 3" width timbers

Offline Southside logger

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Re: What's the going rate for customer provided timbers?
« Reply #10 on: February 20, 2019, 11:38:48 PM »
I have no experience drying Doug Fir, but unless it's incredibly easy to dry that is a very good price for 3" thick material. 
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Offline Sedgehammer

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Re: What's the going rate for customer provided timbers?
« Reply #11 on: February 22, 2019, 11:28:08 AM »
Ok, thanks for the info!

Offline Brad_bb

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Re: What's the going rate for customer provided timbers?
« Reply #12 on: February 24, 2019, 07:50:47 PM »
Sledgehammer, let's back up.  What are you trying to build?  Why are you not using your native timber in Oklahoma?  Are you building a timberframe?  They are typically built with green wood.  You don't need to dry it. Checking is a normal process in timbers and is usually not considered a defect as long as the checking is discontinuous, meaning it goes for a a foot or two and then a new one starts and it goes a bit etc.  Timbers Usually check mostly on one face.  It has to because as the timber shrinks, the outside shrinks more than the inside and it has to let that compression stress relieve itself.  It seems that you are "hearing" people tell you different things like you need to use Doug fir to be more stable...or the kerfing which no timber framer will do. If hardwoods are predominant in your area, then use what is locally available and let's discuss what is available.  12x12  is a rather large cross section that you don't typically see in a timberframe unless its a really big timberframer with posts that big.  Do you have a design of some sort?  Let's get to the heart of your questions.
Anything someone can design, I can sure figure out how to fix!
If I say it\\\\\\\'s going to take so long, multiply that by at least 3!

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Re: What's the going rate for customer provided timbers?
« Reply #13 on: February 24, 2019, 08:55:38 PM »
Brad, for his design, go to the thread titled "Clear Span Roof Truss Calculator" for his build thread, you're a little late to the party but feel free to catch up and chime in after you do so.

The choice to use dougfir was something Sedgehammer was looking into, actually I've used quite a bit here on the east coast, it is a fine and strong species and has a look many people find appealing.
Checking is caused by tension perp to grain. This distinction is worth understanding.

You may know of Green Oak Carpentry Company in the UK, proponents of building in, wait for it, green oak :D. This is from them, entitled "Green Oak in Construction" well worth reading. It is not that uncommon a practice, simply something else for the toolbox.

Quote
For posts, the option of excluding boxed heart in order to minimise the occurrence

of fissures may not be feasible in terms of the required member size,

and to insist on finding an exceptional piece goes against the principle of

utilising the smallest log appropriate for the purpose. Another option is to

pre-cut the post (thus pre-determining the position of the fissure) as shown

in Figure 4.6 (b), ideally on a concealed face. The building owner should also

be made aware that slight distortions in the length will occur on drying,

although the designer’s aim is to control these.
 
A laborer works with his hands
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Re: What's the going rate for customer provided timbers?
« Reply #14 on: February 24, 2019, 09:34:36 PM »
Yes I didn't know there was another thread.  Yes I agree it's one thing to use DF if you choose to, but sometimes newbies, like I once was, hear things that make you think there's one direction you need to go and you accept that assumption.  Just trying to make sure that's not the case and that there are options.  That's fine if he's decided that's the look he wants.
Anything someone can design, I can sure figure out how to fix!
If I say it\\\\\\\'s going to take so long, multiply that by at least 3!

Offline Sedgehammer

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Re: What's the going rate for customer provided timbers?
« Reply #15 on: February 25, 2019, 12:54:42 AM »
Sledgehammer, let's back up.  What are you trying to build?  Why are you not using your native timber in Oklahoma?  Are you building a timberframe?  They are typically built with green wood.  You don't need to dry it. Checking is a normal process in timbers and is usually not considered a defect as long as the checking is discontinuous, meaning it goes for a a foot or two and then a new one starts and it goes a bit etc.  Timbers Usually check mostly on one face.  It has to because as the timber shrinks, the outside shrinks more than the inside and it has to let that compression stress relieve itself.  It seems that you are "hearing" people tell you different things like you need to use Doug fir to be more stable...or the kerfing which no timber framer will do. If hardwoods are predominant in your area, then use what is locally available and let's discuss what is available.  12x12  is a rather large cross section that you don't typically see in a timberframe unless its a really big timberframer with posts that big.  Do you have a design of some sort?  Let's get to the heart of your questions.
Thanks for chiming in Brad! Where we are located there isn't much for wood to choose from really, leastwise not in length and girth. The house we are building doesn't require these large post, but we like the massiveness of them. The other thing we are trying to do is build a new house that looks as if has been here for a while. rough cut wood being one of them and after checking on pricing from Dallas delivered here, well, after the heart attack we decided to start looking where we could get it directly ourselves. It didn't need to be DF, but it's what fits the bill for what we are doing and the look we are after. With that in mind we were able to find a sawmill in CO that still circle cuts, so the wood will even have more eye appeal. Only problem is it's all green. Were using 3x12 timers for floor and ceiling joists and 12x12's for posts and there'll be dry down for a fair amount of time, so want to cut down on any potential problems that we're not aware of.

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Re: What's the going rate for customer provided timbers?
« Reply #16 on: February 25, 2019, 09:26:26 PM »
I'm prepping for a house build too.  I am milling all hardwood.  Most of it has or will sit in my barn for a minimum of 1 year and some has been in there 4 years.  So some movement has happened, and I'm planing the timbers before we go to start cutting timberframe joinery.  They're fairly stable by that time.  They're not dry by any means, but if they were going to do anything big they would have.  The boxed heart symmetry helps keep them straight.  Coastal DF as I understand is one of the woods  that stay pretty straight even Free of Heart (not boxed heart).  So it's a bit different than the hardwood.  Interior DF, is not the same animal as the coastal from what I understand.  It has knots and more prone to check.  Don't get me wrong, it's good material to timberframe with.  I like it better than the more uniform coastal.  The interior looks better to me.  

If your floor and ceiling joists are exposed, I think they'd look better if they were 4x12 instead of 3x12.  6x would be even better looks-wise in my opinion.  I have 6x floor joists for my shop's loft floor.  
Anything someone can design, I can sure figure out how to fix!
If I say it\\\\\\\'s going to take so long, multiply that by at least 3!

Offline Sedgehammer

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Re: What's the going rate for customer provided timbers?
« Reply #17 on: February 26, 2019, 10:55:08 PM »
That stuff gonna be hard....... and I mean hard..... Tore an old lumber warehouse down 30 years ago or so and it was partially made of some white oak..... Plus had some hardwood timbers in our dairy barn. I'm from cheese country and of course the wood selection there is very diverse. Big wood here is harder to find. 

I agree on the look. I like that wood character to come out. Too uniform looks like it's engineered wood.

Am going with 4x12's. More stable and looks better I agree.

I just posted a new thread in the timber framing forum on spruce, pine, doug fir, er cedar & hardwoods. Maybe you can check it out and comment. 

Thanks again!


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