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Author Topic: Building a DIY Homemade debarker for my Woodmizer LT35HD  (Read 3271 times)

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Offline MikeySP

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Building a DIY Homemade debarker for my Woodmizer LT35HD
« on: February 23, 2019, 12:08:28 AM »
Howdy folks. This thread will be for a couple purposes: to document my debarker build for po folk like me to be able to copy. Also, I am receiving a lot from many gentlemen helping me out on my journey. I have little to give, but I thought this might be something. Additionally, I may be walking off a cliff, so you might be able to save me from a catastrophe.

I purchased a 2011 Woodmizer LT35HD some weeks ago, I learned that they did not make a debarker for that year model. Additionally, since I squeezed my wallet very hard to get that far, I have made the decision to build a homemade Debarker. That bridge has been crossed and is burned, so talking me out of it is likely not on the menu. Believe me, I would rather be cutting, but we are in the middle of a whole latta rainfall, so the timing isn't too horrible.

Having done some industrial espionage with the help of some kind souls, and I spent some hours pondering the design and overcoming some obstacles, I am ready to get started on the making phase. However, I thought it a good idea to post before the build since very little is in concrete. Feel very welcome to chime in with recommendations. Make war in a multitude of counselors might have an application like make a debarker with many counselors.

The initial intel was a video, photos, and some measurements, from one kind gentleman. I also acquired digital debarker manuals, PDF versions, for the LT35 and the LT40. If I had money to throw at it, I would have unquestionably ordered the LT35 debarker from Woodmizer and made the necessary holes to get it mounted.

Next, I noticed a difference between the photos an angelic gentlemen sent me of his Lt35 debarker and the LT35 Debarker manual. His has a mechanical lever with a cable. Very simple design. You just pull the handle and the debarker moves in toward the log. It holds in place by a simple locking lever. To release it back to open, you just squeeze a handle and move lever out. Spring tension returns the debarker back out to the farthest away from log position.

The LT35 manual, on the other hand, has a 1/30HP geared motor that turns a small pulley that is connected via a belt to a  larger 7" pulley. To swing the debarker in and out, you toggle a reversible, momentary-on switch. the spring action that is a necessity so the debarker can adjust itself with the irregularities of the log is provided by the small motor pulley system, free-floating on a pivot point with a torsion spring of sufficient strength. Whereas the handle cable system on my friends machine has two springs and a cable around a larger D shaped pulley to provide movement and contour spring action.

The LT40 and the LT35 both have 3/4HP 12V motors to turn the debarker blade; however, it appears the shafts are different diameters. The LT35 motor D-shaft is 1/2".  The LT40 has a larger diameter 3/4 or 7/8 I think? The LT40 debarker also has a bearing that supports the arbor shaft below the debarker blade. Whereas the LT35 Debarker is shaft blade, nut, nothing. My friend has used his LT35 for years and it has worked great for him. I am sure how one treats it will contribute to mileage.

Where am I? I have the 3/4HP motor sitting next to me, but I still need to purchase some items. Hope to do so by tomorrow, but I have had some challenges to overcome; because, of my build philosophy. Free is better than spending, unless free is very costly in time. Because of this I have been leaning toward merging of the models. Additionally, since my situation in life became tighter a few years ago, I am all about spending $1 for an item from China that is $6 here; but, I do not have time for that, so I will spend the $6 and find a US source, if I can't "easily" fabricate the part.

We are in our camper (moved from Calico Rock, Arkansas a little over a year ago). This means I am not in my setup shop anymore. I miss it. I do have some shop access, but do not want to use that any more than necessary.

This image was my initial idea (12v geared motor and pulley) as I thought the cable and hand operated route meant more items to purchase.  I thought a cheap $15 gear motor would be a cheaper/easier route than my friend's LT35 with the cable design. I was wrong and did not see that clearly until I was writing this post. Sometimes when engineering something, the mind can get so married to an idea, so focused on a tree, that it takes a pause to see the forest again. Really, I can engineer that locking plate for free with my plasma cutter and/or a an angle grinder with jig. I will need only a few items such as a wire with loops and a couple of springs. Compared to geared motor, wiring, fuse, pully, springs, wire sheathing?

In photo below I am not sure what dimension D is yet??

`

 

This next image took me a little to solve the free floating small gear motor. In top left side, I finally figured I would just setup a baby sized fast winch setup. Basically using the hand lever style setup, but eliminating the hand lever for a gear motor. I must admit, this idea is still very appealing to me. Maybe I wasn't wrong  8). Then of course in the top right is where I think I am at present. I need to relax a little and come back to it in the wee hours of the morn, or late tonight. It is decision time... or past it. I need to be fabbing. Please give me your opinion. Haha, I just noticed my doodle page has some upside down images. Looks like I am trying to fab a  Lucas mill. Sorry.


 

Re-purposed Bicycle Crank. Ok, I have not mentioned this yet.... BUT, I am planning to use the crank from a bicycle and the bottom bracket shell (Tube that crank shaft passes through with bearings) for the swing arm. I have an old steel bicycle lying around, and will cut that out of the bike frame and utilize it. I also see no reason not to use the bicycle main large sprocket and chain. Order of parts: eye bolt anchor, spring#1, chain, Spring #2, cable, and on to handle or the speedy mini winch.


 


This is my friend's LT35.You can see the pivot point and the cable connected to the two springs and going back throught to the handle (Next pic)



 

Below motor (on right) is locking handle to swing debarker in/out. The other handle below is for sliding the blade guide in and out.


 

As mentioned near the top, this image shows the LT35 debarker on the left and the LT40 on the right. While it is tempting to engineer more strength into the design, considering users are getting plenty of miles out of it, I will stick to the LT35 design. I will order the arbor (connects to motor shaft and holds the blade). If I did not mention it, I have the LT35 motor - same HP rating. Smaller shaft.  BTW, turns out different debarkers have different characteristics and some are better and some worse. Notice the blades spin in different directions. Clearly the right bearing support and heavier shaft is a more robust debarker, but they both work I am told. Additionally, the LT35 has only one verticle support for the sawmill, so weight is a concern. As I understand it from reading somehwere, weight needs to be kept below 75lbs, which is no problem on my path.


 

My LT35 debarker motor appears to have the following stats. Some copied, others measured by me. May be off by a smigen.
12V DC, 1550RPM 3/4HP
Weight 15.24lbs.
Shaft D - .5" diameter at the round/.45" dia to the D
1.5" shaft length
4.2" diameter motor
7-5/8" body length
1/4" battery terminals
3ea 1/4"-20 x 1" grade 5 mounting bolts.
About 2-9/16" mounting hole center-to-center. There are three holes in a triangle pattern around the shaft.

Additional items I will need is some heavy gauge cable ( I think #6 AWG) to handle 50 AMPS of juice that this motor drinks. Additionally, I will need and on/off switch, a 200 amp continuous duty 12V solenoid, and a 60 Amp circuit breaker.

I need to find out the spring sizes. I am thinking that trampoline 5.5" trampoline springs might be a good fit... but I am making this up just like a fiction writer.
Once upon a time, there was a debarker made with trampoline springs. :)

Oh yea, the structural steel is mostly 1.5" square tubing 1/8" thick.

I think most men who can afford a woodmizer would be much wiser to pull the trigger and get a factory unit. However, I have a unique set of facts, just like everyone else has their unique facts, so ready, set, fab... here I go. My intent is to update this to the end when I have something to say or need advice, and if I forget to give a longevity performance feedback, PM me and I will do so. Assuming I stay the course. Something about starting this thread, talk won't do... do will do.

Good evening folks!

-Mike

Offline Vautour

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Re: Building a DIY Hommade debarker for my Woodmizer LT35HD
« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2019, 02:49:05 AM »
........ Nice info Mike... a debarker is in the plan for me soon also... gonna keep a eye on this tread thumbs-up
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Offline Crossroads

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Re: Building a DIY Hommade debarker for my Woodmizer LT35HD
« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2019, 11:27:01 AM »
Sounds like a fun project, keep us posted. 
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Online charles mann

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Re: Building a DIY Hommade debarker for my Woodmizer LT35HD
« Reply #3 on: February 23, 2019, 08:53:34 PM »
will be following this thread too.
Mikey, ck out this three, unless you already came across it and the pic of the hm made debarked. 
Home made debarker ideas ? in Sawmills and Milling

once mine is built, i will more than likely be using a chalk line and skim the log with a chainsaw, something similar to a limbing saw (025 or similar from the pawn shop) until i can fab up debarker. gotta get these trees milled and start drying so i can start to turn a profit and pay myself back in the cost of this monstrosity of an under taking. 
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Offline ljohnsaw

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Re: Building a DIY Hommade debarker for my Woodmizer LT35HD
« Reply #4 on: February 23, 2019, 09:46:25 PM »
a 200 amp continuous duty 12V solenoid
 
Another option - There are solid state "relays".  The "coil" voltage can be whatever (low voltage to 120vac) and have various amp ratings.  I made a spot welder with a solid state timer that fits a relay socket.  Anyhow, the timer is low amp rating and I had some 12vdc relays.  I bought some solid state relays that had a 120vac "coil".  I used the timer to trip the relay that trips the solid state to handle the 120vac to the transformer for the welder.  IIRC, my SS "relays" are 100amp.
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Offline MikeySP

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Re: Building a DIY Hommade debarker for my Woodmizer LT35HD
« Reply #5 on: February 23, 2019, 11:07:48 PM »
Thanks for the link Charles. I read through it. 

ljohnsaw, thank you for that info. I am frankly a little shocked that the debarker solenoid that WM sells for their debarker is 200Amp "Continuous" Duty. Seems like overkill when the normal draw of the motor is 46amps. I guess as it struggles, this will climb, but 200 seems much. I will look into your solution and go with the lowest reliable bidder :).


Offline Southside logger

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Re: Building a DIY Hommade debarker for my Woodmizer LT35HD
« Reply #6 on: February 23, 2019, 11:27:41 PM »
Just thinking here, but if you have a breaker in line to protect the motor from overload why do you need a solenoid?  Is there a reason why an alternative solution could not be to run duty rated wire from the battery, through a duty rated switch - a battery disconnect comes to mind - and then onto the breaker and the motor?  Yes you have to turn a larger switch instead of a little toggle, but that is all the solenoid is really doing at the end of the day.   
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Offline MikeySP

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Re: Building a DIY Hommade debarker for my Woodmizer LT35HD
« Reply #7 on: February 24, 2019, 12:00:52 AM »
SSL, that is a good question. I think it is using a small amperage to operate a large amperage. So, I can flip a baby toggle switch and it operates a low amp coil which connects a huge switch for the high amps required. Otherwise, I would need to flip the breaker each time to turn on. As I understand it, for small amps a relay is used. For hogher amps a contactor is used.  For a motor like this, a solenoid is used. As far as a I can tell: all of these operate on the same type of operation. A coil is energized with small amperage, and it creates a magnetic draw that moves a switches position. Of course, there is also the solid state options that accomplish this also. 

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Re: Building a DIY Hommade debarker for my Woodmizer LT35HD
« Reply #8 on: February 24, 2019, 12:01:19 AM »
OK, I got s little done today. I scrounged some materials together in the morning and went to my buddy's shop in the afternoon for several hours. 

These are the two welded pieces. The main beam and the swing arm. 


 


The crank modified a little . Since the crank housing is about 1/16 thick, maybe a little more, I added that 1/8" tab on this side to offer some additional support. That hole was there and I am going to tap it to 1/8"NPT (National Pipe Thread) since I have a grease fitting on hand that is 1/8npt. This will make greasing the bearing easy.
 

 


I used the square for laying it out. Since I wanted a 90 degree turn, all the angles need to add up to the 90. So you can see 4ea 22.5 degree cuts. 4x22.5 = 90. I used the clamps to hold it all to the table. Four tacks near the corners are good startt point. If you get out of wack, you can often times bring out the equalizer (sledge hammer) and adjust things a little. 


 

Nifty find in morning was a fire extinguisher holder that came with a wheel chair left for a city van that someone gifted me. I cleaned it, hacked off a little here and there. When I get back to it, I will finish this. Since the motor mount for the Factory debarker is 3/16 and the plate on the swing arm that it bolts to is 1/4" I will beef this up a little. Proabablt add some weld to the spot welded assembly too. I think it will work well. 


 



This was the guts from the bicycle that I am using. Could not get the peddle out, so I just cut it with my angle grinder. 


 


Since, I may need to get inside this assembly for some reason in the future, I have come up with a sleeve that will slide over this crank arm. I will hold it in with a bolt or two. 

To be honest, if it were not for my experience riding bicycles, brutally at times, in my youth, I don't think I would have been ok with this crank assembly technique. However, we brutalized those things and I remember zero failures. I will come up with some support for transport as I see that as the most brutal time. Hitting a bump at 50MPH will put some serious weight on the main beam and the swing arm with the leverage. I predict it will work; but, If things do not work out, I will do what I recommend you do: take a steel tube with about a 1/4" wall and put it on a lathe and fit it for a set of bearings and a good size shaft. Then take the piece for the swing arm and drill a straight hole on a milling machine, or good drill press, and get some sealed bearings, etc.. 

I hope to update you again Monday evening. Thank you for your input and thank you Longboat sailing Forest Cutter Norseman... you know who you are :) . This angelic gentleman has been a great help to me. I would be well short of this point without his help.

-Mike




Offline Southside logger

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Re: Building a DIY Hommade debarker for my Woodmizer LT35HD
« Reply #9 on: February 24, 2019, 12:16:10 AM »
Looks good there on the fab work - my point on the switch was that a duty rated switch - like a battery disconnect - would replace the solenoid, so you would have a heavy amp break instead of a light amp break which then steps up the coil for the heavy break - I am assuming that is a pricy unit from your comment above - so was thinking of a work around, if it's cheap then no need to go this route.  
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Riehl Edger
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Re: Building a DIY Hommade debarker for my Woodmizer LT35HD
« Reply #10 on: February 24, 2019, 12:58:59 AM »
OK, I see your point. Saving money is very good  8).

I forgot to mention that my friend with the debarker said his distance "B" in image is 10"; however, at his recommendation, I have extended "B" to 11.5". 10" is too short and we think that the newer models have an extra inch or two. The problem pops up when trying to debark logs at the limit of the sawmill capability.  Of course, this means "A" probably needs to be longer also. I made "A" longer than I will need. I will chop it on my next trip to fabricate this contraption.  



 

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Re: Building a DIY Hommade debarker for my Woodmizer LT35HD
« Reply #11 on: February 24, 2019, 06:19:26 AM »
The point of a solenoid in my opinion is to have a low amp switch and wire to go to the solenoid to control the motor.  The signal wire is lighter and cheaper.  This is what I did for the remote to my conveyor for my log splitter.  If this was on my timberking, the thinner 18 g wires could travel the 25 feet in the energy chain to the solenoid on the gantry.  I used trailer wire with 7 wires inside a rubber covering.  My control has forward, backward and off, as well as a voltage and amp. meter.




 




 


later version, includes shut off switch, 50 amp self resetting breaker, solenoid, amp meter bridge.  big black wires at the bottom of the pic go to the motor to the conveyor.

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Re: Building a DIY Hommade debarker for my Woodmizer LT35HD
« Reply #12 on: February 24, 2019, 12:10:38 PM »
OK, I see your point. Saving money is very good 8).
 
Always!  On the SS "relays", I got 4 off of eBay for something like $20 a number of years ago.  So I have 3 spares ;)
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Offline millwright

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Re: Building a DIY Hommade debarker for my Woodmizer LT35HD
« Reply #13 on: February 24, 2019, 07:26:49 PM »
I also have a 2011 lt35. I put the factory debarker on it after also installing a much heavier duty up- down gearbox after having a lot of problems with the original one. One problem with the debarked is that they used a nut to hold the blade onto the shaft, and being that the debarker blade and the band blade have to be on the same plane the nut was lower than the band and when the head was dropped down for the last 1 cut it would hit the deck. I fixed this by making your mount A, so that it was hinged near where it was mounted to the sawframe, and just pull it up out of the way with a simple lever. Good luck

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Re: Building a DIY Hommade debarker for my Woodmizer LT35HD
« Reply #14 on: February 25, 2019, 11:17:56 PM »
Thanks for your input gents.

I ordered my woodmizer parts this morning: arbor (attaches to motor shaft and holds debarking blade). I also ordered the rubber boor that slips over the top of the motor for weather protection.

millright, thanks for bringing up that issue. My buddy cuts sub one inch boards and doesn't have that problem. If it is not an alignment issue, maybe they have different generation arbors. He did point out how the debarker shield on his 35 is an inch below the blade. Even when an LT70 debarker is only about half inch lower than the blade. I will make my guard only a half inch lower and if I have lengthy arbor tip, I will see about modifying it. SHould be here in a couple days.

I forgot to order my electrical stuff. Will try to remember tomorrow. I will reread everyone's input tomorrow before pulling the trigger. If it is close in cost, I will spend a few extra dollars and go with the factory style of solenoid I mentioned. Why? I don't have to think. Means I can get done in an hour or two less.

Here are some pics:

The motor mount is actually two pieces. This allows height adjust and tilting of motor.


 

That appearance of a downward tilt is not really there. The swing arm is swung out to clear the work bench and vise, so it gives that appearance. It is pretty close to parrallel. Not that there is any issue with a tilt. The smaller cut down square tube that the crank pedal arm slides into was how I overcame the need to weld the swing arm to the crank. I wanted to be able to disassemble in case I needed to replace bearings. It slides in pretty snug and I have a hardened screw that goes through the end of the crank to keep it from slipping out.


 

Motor mount. I had a fire extinguisher holder I had beefed up a little, but that it was too big, so I fabbed one. I was shocked that I could not find more than a puny couple pieces of 3/16 in flat, so I cut a 3/16 square tub (that is what those full length ribs are from) and added a 3/4 or 1" wing for mounting bolts. Also, that cut off part of the round face is because of my lack of metal. I thought about adding another piece and mending it, but it will not need it, this is plenty strong. 


 


The 1/2" adjust plate has that large hole (approx 1") for the power cable to run through. The 1/4" plate welded to the end of the support beam also has a hole, but it is a little smaller 5/8"+/-. the 1/2" is fixed, but the 1/4" plate tilts left or right, so the larger hole on one ensure the cable survives Madame Guillotine.


 

Good evening.
-Mike

Offline Ga Mtn Man

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Re: Building a DIY Hommade debarker for my Woodmizer LT35HD
« Reply #15 on: February 26, 2019, 07:10:58 AM »
Nice work Mike!
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Re: Building a DIY Hommade debarker for my Woodmizer LT35HD
« Reply #16 on: February 26, 2019, 07:38:00 AM »
Mike, that looks great. Thanks for doing this. I know I will be adding a debarker to mine eventually. Or maybe on V2.0 :)

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Re: Building a DIY Hommade debarker for my Woodmizer LT35HD
« Reply #17 on: February 26, 2019, 08:10:42 AM »
A hardy thank you for the encouragement gentlemen. 

Offline millwright

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Re: Building a DIY Hommade debarker for my Woodmizer LT35HD
« Reply #18 on: February 26, 2019, 12:22:54 PM »
I think mine was one of the first installed on the 35, so it had a couple of design flaws. Worked with wm on some things and got it working good now. It sure saves on blades, as I cut a lot of rough bark wood such as white pine and butternut.

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Re: Building a DIY Hommade debarker for my Woodmizer LT35HD
« Reply #19 on: February 26, 2019, 10:52:32 PM »
I test mounted the debarker. Was interesting experience drilling holes in my sawmill. Had to make a few adjustments, but I had a good landing. Very likely not needed, but  I decided to add a short top support made of 3/8" x 1/2" solid rod.

I ordered some electrical on amazon today. I went with the Solenoid ($17) and a 60 amp breaker ($11.50). I started to explore the other options, but had already lost time in the morning when my truck broke. Yesterday morn a large angle iron ripped my truck tire sidewall. I wanted to get going.  



 



 

-Mike

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Re: Building a DIY Hommade debarker for my Woodmizer LT35HD
« Reply #20 on: February 27, 2019, 06:56:03 AM »
Would like to say thanks for all of the information you shared, going to try to do the same on my shade tree mill.  I have some syp that the bark has sand in it even after power washing them still tuff on the blades.
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Re: Building a DIY Hommade debarker for my Woodmizer LT35HD
« Reply #21 on: February 27, 2019, 07:21:13 AM »
That looks pretty sweet. going  to have to paint the mill at the same time as the arm. it looks rough right now.

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Re: Building a DIY Hommade debarker for my Woodmizer LT35HD
« Reply #22 on: February 27, 2019, 08:41:29 AM »
bwstout and Crusarius, thank you. When I finish, I will be glad to go through all my digital notes and give more details to questions I had to answer that I was not aware of until i was staring at it. -Mike

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Re: Building a DIY Hommade debarker for my Woodmizer LT35HD
« Reply #23 on: March 01, 2019, 12:10:14 AM »
Good evening. It is going slow, but steady.

Received part of my woodmizer order. The blade holding bushing (arbor) is in. I wish I had my micrometer at our camper, but I left it at my buddy's shop. Seems to be somewhere in the neighborhood of 3/4" or better shaft. I had hoped to take two or three circular saw blades and run them in apposing directions for debarker duty, but I am not sure how to drill them out from 5/8" to whatever this is and keep the balance that would be pretty important at 1550 RPM. May need to just pull the trigger and buy the $60 dollar blade from Woodmizer.

Largeest sprocket turned too big. Glad I have three sprockets. The largest sprocket is too large for the hand mechanism as it will only translate the hand lever movement into maybe 100-120 degrees. Ended up  that the middle sprocket works dandy. I have just over a 7" arc on my control handle and that 7" of movement easily turns the debarker 180 degrees.

Blade safety guide. My buddy's LT35 debarker blade guard covers a whole bunch of the arc (180 degrees?), but can get in the way a little. Additionally the LT35 model hangs about an inch below the blade. Whereas, the LT70 debarker is only about a 1/2" below the blade and is open for at least 270 degrees. I copied these elements of the 270 debarker.

Swing arm horizontal beam extended. I did not mention this earlier, but the horizontal beam length of the swing arm was extended to 11.5". This is 1.5" beyond what my sketch shows as dimension "B". Again, my friend informed me of the problems with the original factory design in hanging up on larger logs. I think the factory quickly addressed that issue.

Spring breakage. I had some rusty old springs from a riding lawn mower that I used for testing the mechanism and snap! So, I will have to actually buy two :). Woodmizer prices seem pretty reasonable on their hardware; so, if I order a blade from them, I will get the springs from them also. If not, a couple of 5" overall length springs at about .1" from a hardware store will do.

I added a couple tabs to the stationary arm and the swing arm and drilled them a little larger than 1/4" so I can put a pin through them for transport. I also added a short black rubber bungy cord to ease the weight on the bicycle crank during transport.

Just found out that the solenoid and breaker arrived.


 

 

The locking lever below seems like it will work good. Initially I drew out the approx 1/4" spacing, but but after cutting out a couple with the angle grinder concluded that 1/2" sized teethe would work just as well as it is not a micrometer it is 10" of tensions spring, so I went bigger. It was clear cutting the smaller teeth with such crude technique that the results were not going to be very good anyways. I am very happy with  how will the mechanism works.



 

 

-Mike

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Re: Building a DIY Hommade debarker for my Woodmizer LT35HD
« Reply #24 on: March 01, 2019, 09:32:16 AM »
Mike that is looking great. I would have loved to see what you came up with if you built your own mill.

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Re: Building a DIY Hommade debarker for my Woodmizer LT35HD
« Reply #25 on: March 04, 2019, 07:49:13 AM »
Thank you Crusarius. 

After eliminating the largest and smallest sprockets, I cut off the excess piece of crank I had left on earlier. I had left it thinking it needed the extra strength to turn the sprocket; however, after considering that the torque I will be applying is very little in comparison with an athletic bicycle rider, I cut it off and just added a coulpe welds from crank to sprocket.

I cut the "D" shape on my sprocket to sort of match the OEM pulley; however, I don't know if this made any difference because I have a toothed sprocket vs the OEM cable which perhapsm needed needed tension pinch points at the corners of the "D". I am at a loss as to any benefit gained, but I did it thinking it would speed up the swing arm to move toward the log and only afterwards took the time to consider it may have done zero to effect the operation. Maybe help it to swing more speedily at the pivot point, but I just cannot tell with my limited abilities. Pity as it was a a little tedious trying to match the 1/2" pitch (point to point) with the homemade straight section of sprocket. I traced the edges of the actual sprocket onto a piece of cardboard. Then I drew a straight edge line at the approximate location I wanted to cut across. Then I took the chain and tried to tension it in place on the cardboard and matched both ends up to traced teeth that would remain on sprocket while tracing the side of chain. Then I used a small circle template that matched the U between each tooth and traced that out. Then I took some metal and used a hammer and hard screw to transcribe points and onto the metal through the cardboard. I then placed the chain on the sheet metal and traced it. Used an angle grinder and cut out the metal as best as I could and used a die grinder and kept grinding until the chain fit ok. Then I matched it up on the sprocket and traced edge where I needed to cut to ensure a matched set. Ground off a little where needed and welded it up.... and maybe for no reason :)



 

Additionally, if you look at the photos of my control handle posted earlier, you will see the tab that the cable will connect to is on the bottom side, but the OEM is on the top. I decided to fix that to give max space between the handle for the adjustable roller guides and the debarker control handle.  

In earlier photo you may notice a small tab on the release handle for connecting the cable end. The OEM has a bolt at that location and the OEM cable has a doughnut hole that slips over the bolt to connect it. I decided to copy that, so off came the tab and I drilled a hole for mounting a bolt.

Undoubtedly the most complicated element for me thus far has been the control mechanism and that should not be too bad. My rusty springs failed. I tried a couple .120 inch diameter 5" springs and no joy either. The OEM has a 7" .105" at the cable end and a 5" .105" on the opposite side of the pulley. I could not find this at my hardware store, so I tried a couple .8" o .9" springs at 7 and 4.5" lengths. Well, my buddy's son got a little helpful before i could stop him and when I was testing the mechanism, he got the idea I wanted to get the spring as far as possible and he super extended the long one  :D turning it into a permanent 10" spring so that ended my Saturday attempt at mechanism completion. I am probably going to order the debarker blade when Woodmizer opens this morning and will probably get the OEM springs and control arm cable. 

All I have left beyond the control mechanism is electrical hookup 

I need to ask someone smarter than me what on earth the diode on the solenoid is for? Two things seem apparent to me:
1. Woodmizer Engineers are smarter than me, so it must be there for a very good reason.
2. I can personally see no reason for it since an energized solenoid closes a circuit or simply flips the switch on.

Perhaps it has something to do with the on/off switch and relay side, so I will include a photo of that also. 

 If you know what is up with the diode, please let me know. I also notice the OEM has a positive and negative terminal whereas my solenoid gets its negative straight through the body of the solenoid. Is there a rhyme or reason as to why the ground appears isolated? 



 



Why the relay and driver in the following pic?  I envisioned something more simple: a positive lead, inline fuse, on/off toggle and lead to the positive coil post on the solenoid.


 


Saturday evening I painted the debarker assembly and control arm. Note, my main handle is backward in the following pics. About a minute to remove bolt and flip it, but to get the progress photos up, I include my photo with backwards assembly error.



 

 

 

 

 

 

Since I do not know what I am doing, I am pretty slow. Overall, I am quite happy with the results. If I did not use the bicycle crank, but rather fashioned the swing bearings, I would have added additional bearings for an electric swing arm control mechanism. The entire mechanism for the electric swing arm model is free swinging and has a torsion spring to give it tension and flexibility.  It will be toward the end of the week I imagine before I have my parts in and installed. One could possibly use the solution from my initial options drawing at the beginning of the thread, but I would ad a stop on the cable to avoid super extending the springs, and perhaps a limit switch to stop the motor at the end point? If my mechanism does not work out for me, I will try that. 

Have a good day.

-Mike
 

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Re: Building a DIY Hommade debarker for my Woodmizer LT35HD
« Reply #26 on: March 04, 2019, 08:51:56 AM »
The diode is there to discharge the reverse EMF pulse that is generated by the coil in the solenoid.  This pulse would destroy the driver if not discharged.
HM126

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Re: Building a DIY Hommade debarker for my Woodmizer LT35HD
« Reply #27 on: March 04, 2019, 09:05:26 AM »
very cool mike.  looks like you putting a lot of work into it.  If you run your business like you build your de-barker, you should do well.  If you had it to do over, would you still build it from scratch, or just buy one?  best regards.

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Re: Building a DIY Hommade debarker for my Woodmizer LT35HD
« Reply #28 on: March 04, 2019, 09:58:41 AM »
Having had to replace the Fwd/Rev joystick after sawing in the rain one time too many I suspect the relay is there as that joystick is at most 5V output, maybe even less.  So my guess is the relay takes in the lower voltage and closes sending out 12V to activate the solenoid down stream, basically just keeps bumping up the juice.  
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Re: Building a DIY Hommade debarker for my Woodmizer LT35HD
« Reply #29 on: March 04, 2019, 11:11:27 AM »
thank you for the electrical answers gentlemen. It of course generates other questions now: 
1. Why not draw off a 12v source rather than 5v?
2. Why use a driver instead of just a 12v wire?

Doc, Thank you. I fully intended to give my answer at the end, but I am close enough to do so now.

I "think" I would build it again, but when I began I thought 3 days max.  :D 

I would not have considered building it if I had work lined up or if we did not have so much rain during this building time. 

I do not regret making it; but, I don't think the math ads up to make one if you are as slow as me. I put many hours into it. A skilled fabricator or millwright could probably build this thing in 1/5th the time, ,maybe less. 
 
If I was making money off the bat, I would never consider fabricating one, so I could be making an income.

Also, if I had some work to do with the sawmill, I could have gotten further down the road in sawing experience, so the question is: do I want to saw or fabricate, and it would be foolish of me to answer fabricate, when I make money sawing. For my part, I really need to make some money. For perhaps half those days I spent on it the rain was a falling, or the ground soaked from just fallen rains and flooding throughout my area, so these days are not so lost on the build. 

My personal counsel would be to saw and buy your debarker if at all possible if your goal is to be a sawyer. 

However, when I see some men who can fabricate like they were born too it, they have an afternoons work for them, and it might not be so much. 

In my case, this is a very singular time in my life, sort of my own life's great depression (nothing so bad - just metaphor) so indeed I would build it over; but, it may be because of all the pressure I feel to turn pennies into dollar bills, thus distorting my judgment. 

I do also consider that I was able to attend another school, that of debarker fabricator. 

So, I would absolutely, maybe, possibly build it again... perhaps  :o

The Sawing Philosopher.

-Mike

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Re: Building a DIY Hommade debarker for my Woodmizer LT35HD
« Reply #30 on: March 04, 2019, 11:39:19 AM »
1. Why not draw off a 12v source rather than 5v? 2. Why use a driver instead of just a 12v wire?


1. It depends on your overall design.  Logic components live in a 5V world (or 3.3V or 1.8V).  At some point this needs to interface to things like 12V solenoids, etc.  If your design was simple enough - composed of switches and relays for instance - you could keep it all in the 12V world.  

2.  Same answer really.  Just depends on your overall design.  At some point, pretty quickly, logic outgrows switch and relay implementation.  The point at which it does that depends on several factors.  If it's a one-off, home brew design, it may be better to use a brute force approach with switches and relays.  It it's more complex or is a production design it's going to more cost effective to go with electronics.

Start with the result you need to achieve and work backwards until all the details are resolved.  It may be better to ignore the Woodmizer control design and just do what you need in this particular application.  In any case, the reverse polarity diode across a relay or solenoid coil is good insurance against premature failure due to arcing even if it's not protecting a solid-state driver. 

If you're going to actuate the debarker independently, a simple approach using 12V switches and relays will be fine.  If it actuates automatically as a result of several other operations you'll probably find yourself in need of logic components.

You have a nice mechanical design there.  Looking forward to seeing it all working. 
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Re: Building a DIY Hommade debarker for my Woodmizer LT35HD
« Reply #31 on: March 04, 2019, 11:46:51 AM »
I do not regret making it; but, I don't think the math ads up to make one if you are as slow as me. I put many hours into it. A skilled fabricator or millwright could probably build this thing in 1/5th the time, ,maybe less. 


a skilled fabricator builds stuff. But the real trick is designing it as you go. anyone can build something quick off plans. What you did was engineer a solution. Completely different from just fabricating.

Good job.

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Re: Building a DIY Hommade debarker for my Woodmizer LT35HD
« Reply #32 on: March 04, 2019, 11:55:10 AM »
A simple solution would be to just have two switches to control the debarker.  One for the motor, one to actuate the arm.  Even it gets more complex later on, that would be a good way to start without getting bogged down in timing and logic issues.  

Since I don't have a debarker I'm not familiar with the intricacies.  Is it ok to actuate the arm before the log is in range?  After the cut is it ok to let it swing in?  How long does it take the debarker blade to come up to speed?  
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Re: Building a DIY Hommade debarker for my Woodmizer LT35HD
« Reply #33 on: March 04, 2019, 12:05:46 PM »
I like that you improved the design based on others experience and your own.  The education may have been worth the time.  I am an er doc and based in part on the way I was raised and my desire to learn new skills, I built my own splitter and conveyor over weeks and months.  So even if you won the lottery, there are benefits to building your own.  If you have problems with your debarker and call customer service, I will be curious to hear, who answers the phone.  lol.  We do a lot of things at my house despite our income, drives my wife a little crazier.  but my kids have learned from it.  when my sprinkler system does not work, I don't call anyone, since I built the system.  So I respect that you did it yourself.  I understand that your CFO probably did not want you spending money that was not coming in.  I think you have done a great job.  We all choose our battles.  Best regards sir.

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Re: Building a DIY Hommade debarker for my Woodmizer LT35HD
« Reply #34 on: March 04, 2019, 01:36:28 PM »
btulloh, thank you very much for the technical help. I just spoke with Woodmizer Technical and they are awesome!

Here is what I learned:
The debarker is setup to only run when two conditions are met:
1. the debarker switch is on.
2. the sawmill power feed is going forward.

This serves to make sure debarker is off, when not feeding forward and is safer for offbearing and accidentally tearing up wood in reverse.

Thus, the blue wire off the forward feed joy stick goes through the on/off switch to the relay providing the (-) 5v.
The power feed driver gives the +5V coil voltage to the relay and when the coil is energized it triggers a 12V signal to the solenoid.

The solenoid WM uses is 200 amp continuous duty and has TWO coil posts (isolated ground) and the diode is to drain out the voltage and improves solenoid life.

I purchased a 200 amp cont duty solenoid also, but it only has ONE post for positive and the body is the ground. I can run it as is without a diode, but life expectancy will drop. 

As I am understanding it: a diode only allows voltage flow in one direction. So, when operating the solenoid, it blocks proper direction from crossing the solenoid so the coil gets the 12V low amp voltage and closes the contact for the high amp side switching on the debarker motor.  However, if any volatage is sent the other way (reversed) it does not go through the coil because it has an easy path straight through the diode, thus preserving the coil from any over voltage....so, do I have this correct?

Here is what I want to do:

Near copy their design since it doesn't appear that difficult to get spun up on understanding it.

Questions I need to answer still: 
1. What diode do I need to order? Never installed one before.
2. What relay do I need to order? Are these the same that are in my truck and operate on 12V? Does the coil have a varied range of voltage and works with 5V or 12V or do I need to find a relay specifically for 5V?



 

Doc, the kind gentlemen at Woodmizer asked me the same question about how much has been the savings :) and was it worth it? Thank you for the encouragement.

Crusarius: thank you for your encouragement and for the VERY helpful clarification of definitions. I did indeed have them confused.  

I discovered a few years ago that I really should have been an engineer. I tend to be able to spend many hours contemplating how something works. When I see anything mechanical, my mind thinks about how it works, and why. Even when in Special Forces Weapons Sergeant course, three decades ago, I was busy at home building things I won't mention. I think I would have liked building a new gun more than I liked shooting them. I think I would have been very successful at it and loved it. It was a grievous thing for me to discover at about 48y/o that the bully's of my childhood actually won. Here I thought I defeated them when I was 16 when I started punching them in the face. Sadly they picked my career, but I think I missed my calling for all that anger and bitterness drove me to want to kill commies (stand-ins for the bullies). Thank God I didn't have Columbine fever, but that may have been from my feeding on Spiderman and Captain America as a boy rather than Grand Theft Auto. Oh well, water under the bridge, press on toward the goal!

-Mike





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Re: Building a DIY Hommade debarker for my Woodmizer LT35HD
« Reply #35 on: March 04, 2019, 01:40:46 PM »
Since the drawing schematic I included was my interpretation of and isolation from the schematic fromt he manual, here is the OEM schematic from the manual:



 

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Re: Building a DIY Hommade debarker for my Woodmizer LT35HD
« Reply #36 on: March 04, 2019, 02:04:17 PM »
Mike it has been a pleasure and I am happy that you direct your energy in a positive direction.  Never know if you had been directed in another direction.  Might have been a corporate engineer and hated it.  I think the solenoid is voltage specific.  ac/dc also.  If the signal coil requires a certain energy to activate, may not work at lower voltage or worse can pull more amps at a lower voltage and fry an expensive part upstream.  May want to buy parts from WM if they have been so helpful and then the diode as well.  I know TK will hold back a little if you are not a customer, although on the down low will help if they can.  I am not an electrical engineer, so others will chime in I bet.  But I have stayed in a holiday inn express.   :)  .   smiley_beertoast

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Re: Building a DIY Hommade debarker for my Woodmizer LT35HD
« Reply #37 on: March 04, 2019, 02:25:33 PM »
A garden-variety 1N4001 diode will be fine.  (50V / 1 amp).  Almost any diode will be fine if it's >=1amp.  You can probably find a suitable diode at an auto parts store, but they always start with "what is the make and model of your vehicle".  Good luck answering that question.  Too bad Radio Shack is not around anymore.  They had that stuff.

The single lug solenoid should be fine.  The relay needs to have a 5V coil and sufficient DC contact rating for the the solenoid coil.  (Are you using 5V in your carriage control?)  The relay is just a way to get from the 5V world to the 12V world.  The relay would be unnecessary if your carriage control is 12V.


The background on protection diodes:  Any time a voltage is connected to or disconnected from an inductive load (coil) it produces a sharp voltage increase across the driven load.  This is a high voltage, low current spike of short duration and is opposite polarity.  In this application, the diode is wired so that conducts in the OPPOSITE direction of the coil so that the spike will effectively be shorted out though the diode.  This protects the coil from over-voltage conditions and eliminates arcing in the contacts of the relay controlling it.  All coils, relays, solenoids etc. driven by solid state require this or the reverse-voltage spike punches a hole in the semiconductor. 

If you're still awake after that you can get more detail here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flyback_diode

===

I'm with Doc.  Sometimes it's better to DIY.  Just because it is. 
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Re: Building a DIY Hommade debarker for my Woodmizer LT35HD
« Reply #38 on: March 04, 2019, 05:02:58 PM »
Ok, I just ordered most of parts I lack from woodmizer. 

Here is what I I figured out: When I forward the joy stick on auto feed it is a momentary on switch; but, that momentary on trips another relay which makes the circuit feedback on itself so the 5V keeps feeding through to the forward driver and in my case, to the debarker switch and on to the 5V relay which feeds on to the solenoid and so on. 

From WM I ordered a relay, relay holder, waterproof toggle switch, diode, debarker blade, springs for my control mechanism, and the swing arm control cable.

I will do some wiring while I wait, so install will go fairly quickly when it arrives. Need to get some 8 Gauge wire.  I also need to figure how to polarize the diode. Once I think I have it, I will get a verification. Also need a breaker/solenoid box.

Hopefully, my control mechanism performs, so i don't have to resolve that. Talk to you folks soon. Thank you for all the help. I learned a bunch today.

-Mike

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Re: Building a DIY Hommade debarker for my Woodmizer LT35HD
« Reply #39 on: March 05, 2019, 09:06:33 AM »
The diode should have a band on end.  That is the cathode.  Connect the banded end to the + side and you'll be good to go.
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Re: Building a DIY Hommade debarker for my Woodmizer LT35HD
« Reply #40 on: March 05, 2019, 09:13:17 AM »
btulloh, awesome! Thank you for that very helpful information. 

Since oreilly's did not have the correct size terminal lugs, I went ahead and ordered some AWG 8, terminal lugs, braided sleeve tubing, and cable clamps to get the wiring in order.

If all goes well, I shoul dbe able to give everyone an update by Saturday. 

-Mike

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Re: Building a DIY Hommade debarker for my Woodmizer LT35HD
« Reply #41 on: March 05, 2019, 09:18:20 AM »
D-day.  Looking forward to seeing it in operation.  I'm curious to see how the the whole mechanism functions.  Nice job.
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Re: Building a DIY Hommade debarker for my Woodmizer LT35HD
« Reply #42 on: March 05, 2019, 10:10:33 AM »
be careful with the braided steel tube. it gets nasty when it starts to frey.

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Re: Building a DIY Hommade debarker for my Woodmizer LT35HD
« Reply #43 on: March 05, 2019, 11:08:14 AM »
Thank you! Crusarius, I should have clarified. The braided sleeve I purchased was PET (polyethylene terephthalate) which is a plastic. Same stuff used to make 2 litre soda bottles. Here is what I bought: 

Amazon.com: Wang-Data 50ft-1/4 PET Expandable Braided Sleeving ?Black ?Cable Management Sleeve Cord Organizer for wrap & Protect Cables: Home Audio & Theater


-Mike

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Re: Building a DIY Hommade debarker for my Woodmizer LT35HD
« Reply #44 on: March 05, 2019, 11:21:23 AM »
ahh. thats nice. thats good stuff. but after its been in the sun for a while do not rub it on your skin. its very irritating.

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Re: Building a DIY Hommade debarker for my Woodmizer LT35HD
« Reply #45 on: March 05, 2019, 11:29:01 AM »
thanks mike, I just ordered the 1/2 and 1 inch stuff.  as well a hammer struck mandrel for larger lugs.

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Re: Building a DIY Hommade debarker for my Woodmizer LT35HD
« Reply #46 on: March 05, 2019, 12:25:20 PM »
Nice Doc. You are welcome.

Myself, I wanted to buy the 10 ton hydraulic crimper for $39, but figured I could make due borrowing a crimper to get it done or even accomplish the same with some hand tools. I need to resist the temptation to add "nice-to-have" tools to my collection, at present. 

-Mike 

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Re: Building a DIY Hommade debarker for my Woodmizer LT35HD
« Reply #47 on: March 05, 2019, 12:32:52 PM »
I need to resist the temptation to add "nice-to-have" tools to my collection, at present. 


Is it time for an intervention?

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Re: Building a DIY Hommade debarker for my Woodmizer LT35HD
« Reply #48 on: March 05, 2019, 09:54:12 PM »
:D Nahh, no intervention necessary; but, I usually purchase tools when on a project that requires such. However, it would not be too wise for me to do such at this time. I looked at it hard and thought it would be a good purchase, but decided it was not a necessity and needed to wait. 

BTW, I put this small box together this afternoon to house the solenoid and breaker.



 

Solenoid and Breaker:


 

-Mike  

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Re: Building a DIY Hommade debarker for my Woodmizer LT35HD
« Reply #49 on: March 07, 2019, 04:35:07 PM »
btulloh, I received my parts today (minus the springs) and am headed to start install.

However, the diode (pic below) showed hidden under heat shrink. It has a red and a black lead; therefore, I "assume" that I just need to follow the cable polarity (red to + and black to -), but because it may be serving a different mission than normal, I do not want to be presumptuous.

Can you confirm which end goes where in this application.

Thank you.

-Mike

 

 

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Re: Building a DIY Hommade debarker for my Woodmizer LT35HD
« Reply #50 on: March 07, 2019, 05:01:25 PM »
Those leads are almost certainly added by (or for) Woodmizer to suit their application.  I would have to ASSume the same as you - that red goes to the plus side.  One way to confirm this would be to hook the red lead to the POS terminal of a battery, the black lead to a 12V bulb, and the other side of the bulb to the NEG battery terminal.  If the bulb does NOT light up, then your/my assumption is correct.  You could use a voltmeter instead of the bulb (it would read very close to 0.00v if wired correctly.  Some DVM's have a diode check capability (part of the resistance function.)

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Re: Building a DIY Hommade debarker for my Woodmizer LT35HD
« Reply #51 on: March 07, 2019, 08:27:31 PM »
Thank you btulloh! I will run the test in the morning. 

Offline MartyParsons

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Re: Building a DIY Hommade debarker for my Woodmizer LT35HD
« Reply #52 on: March 07, 2019, 08:42:37 PM »
Hello,
   Red goes to + Black to - ground.
Nice job.
Marty
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Re: Building a DIY Hommade debarker for my Woodmizer LT35HD
« Reply #53 on: March 07, 2019, 08:47:46 PM »
Woodmizer rocks! Thank you Marty!

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Re: Building a DIY Hommade debarker for my Woodmizer LT35HD
« Reply #54 on: March 09, 2019, 06:14:22 AM »
...Hey Mikey.. nice work.... was just wondering what motor did you use ... read your post and maybe missed it... where did you buy ,HP,RPM,volts..tks
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Re: Building a DIY Hommade debarker for my Woodmizer LT35HD
« Reply #55 on: March 09, 2019, 02:56:47 PM »
Hi Vautour. I found the actual motor they use on these debarkers on Ebay $99 delivered. They had three. Two are still available, I just checked. I do not know what they cost from Woodmizer, but I am very confident it is multiples of this price. If I had the funds, I might have bought a second motor, but that is not close to a need for me.  

Below is a photo of the motor label. If you search ebay with this info it will pop up: Current Applications 4085-024 Motor 12V DC / .75 HP @ 1550 RPM

Three small notes you may already know, but for future readers: 
1. it is a hungry motor: requires 46 amps to feed it. My alternator produces 105 Amps and feeds the debarker and the power feed motor at the same time. Battery does it, but to keep everything happy, the alternator size is important.

2. Everyone needs to evaluate their facts to make a wisdom decision. If I had customers lined up to saw or even a little money left, I would not consider building one since I could increase my sawing skills which are in great need of development. 

3. for the PO man who can't afford another O or R so he can at least be po-o-r, planning it out really well can save more than a few dollars by finding cheaper, yet reliable alternatives. I just did not have time, so I probably spent $150 more than I may have needed (pure guess). I am just over $300 into it, I think. 

I learned a bunch. Glad I have a debarker... almost. Still a few hours to finish, assuming it works as I hope. 

I hope to have a report on Tuesday and maybe a video. I am glad to answer any other questions. 

Today it is honking winds with gusts to 40-45 and lot-o-rain. I don't work Sundays without a very important reason. 

So, Monday I plan to be DONE with it. Unfortunately the debarker blade holder had a machining defect, so the replacement will not be here until the afternoon UPS delivery. WM was very responsive and overnight sipped me one, but the weekend slowed it all up. 

-Mike



 

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Re: Building a DIY Hommade debarker for my Woodmizer LT35HD
« Reply #56 on: March 09, 2019, 06:19:18 PM »
may be to late to tell you now but one of my thoughts for a debarker was an old 12 volt cordless grinder. have enough rpm's to effectively debark and easy to come by without batteries. can be plugged right into 12v battery and very little draw

now that you spent all that money :)

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Re: Building a DIY Hommade debarker for my Woodmizer LT35HD
« Reply #57 on: March 09, 2019, 06:33:20 PM »
Crusarius, that is a good idea and actually, I looked into it early on. Even searched prices on ebay. But since I could not find an operational example running on a regular basis, I wanted to stay close to the OEM design since I knew it was tried and true. 

Since I was looking at 12V 3/4HP 1700+/- RPM motors for about $240, I was very happy to find the OEM model for $99. I am sure those who understand motors better than I would have more options they could confidently select from.

I did go with the cable control model which is the lesser performer vs the 1/30hp version. My friend has had a very successful use of the 2012 model, so I went with it as my model with a minor mod of extending the swing arm an extra 1.5" to stay out of trouble on larger logs. This was one problem the early model according to my friend. 

Most prototyping requires a lot of working out of bugs, and I wanted to avoid that, as much as possible. As it is, the biggest bleep on my radar as far as the debarker goes, is "will my chain, spring system work well?". It is probably the most significant mod from the factory design and though close, I am unsettled as to how it will work.

I appreciate you!

-Mike

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Re: Building a DIY Hommade debarker for my Woodmizer LT35HD
« Reply #58 on: March 09, 2019, 07:03:57 PM »
The debarker on my mill 2001, has a leeson 3/4 hp with 7/8 shaft which is currently $478. If that motor was really OEM that was a long time ago.
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT  2001 WM LT40SHDD (42HP Kubota, Accuset2, FAO's, Lubemizer, debarker), Peterson WPF 10-30 with chain slabber. Logrite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

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Re: Building a DIY Hommade debarker for my Woodmizer LT35HD
« Reply #59 on: March 09, 2019, 07:17:53 PM »
Haha, TT, I was eyeballing the leeson, but it was $400+ as I recall. The generic copy was about half. The OEM version for 2012 (first year they offered debarker on LT35 is the current applications momotor shown above.




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Re: Building a DIY Hommade debarker for my Woodmizer LT35HD
« Reply #60 on: March 09, 2019, 07:22:55 PM »
Sorry, I forgot we are talking about different mills. Mine is lt40 super, dont know much about lt35.
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT  2001 WM LT40SHDD (42HP Kubota, Accuset2, FAO's, Lubemizer, debarker), Peterson WPF 10-30 with chain slabber. Logrite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

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Re: Building a DIY Hommade debarker for my Woodmizer LT35HD
« Reply #61 on: March 10, 2019, 03:04:10 PM »
...thanks for the info Mike ... now i know what to look for thumbs-up
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Re: Building a DIY Homemade debarker for my Woodmizer LT35HD
« Reply #62 on: March 14, 2019, 09:25:54 AM »
I am glad to report that I am very satisfied with the debarker so far and after using it on a few logs yesterday. I filmed some debarking on the very fist log, but I am not very adept at uploading videos, so i will try to get it done when the weather forces me inside.

Here is a pic of it the two blades making music together:


 


Finally a little sweat on the debarker after running a few laps.


 

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Re: Building a DIY Homemade debarker for my Woodmizer LT35HD
« Reply #63 on: March 14, 2019, 09:42:46 AM »
That looks great. You probably mentioned this before but where did you get the blade? What diameter is it?

I am still thinking about angle grinder for my debarker.

Does that have a depth stop? or is it limited by sawing speed?

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Re: Building a DIY Homemade debarker for my Woodmizer LT35HD
« Reply #64 on: March 14, 2019, 09:45:23 AM »
Congrats on the debarker and the lumber.

Those grubs sound like pine borers.  They won't bother you later on, but PPB can part of your future.  They probably aren't there now.  FWIW, I had some pine logs that sat too long and got the borers in them.  I sawed siding for my sawmill shed out those logs and put the siding up.  After two years, no sign of any other issues.  I do have some nice peep holes to look through though.
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Re: Building a DIY Homemade debarker for my Woodmizer LT35HD
« Reply #65 on: March 14, 2019, 10:04:23 AM »
Crusarius, I purchased Woodmizer blade ~$60 and the blade holder and nuts were another ~$20. I was going to use three 7-1/4" blades in apposing directions, but I had the arbor (blade holder) from Wm and it had a 1" diameter while the circular saw blades were 5/8" and I did not want to mess with balance on one side and on the other I was in a rush. The blade has negative angle teethe. I did not use the depth washer that WM sells because my buddy did not have it on his 2012 and it works fine. I was tripping my breaker within two feet of debarking every time. After speaking with him, I was going too deep into the wood by far. I found some proper sized springs and all is well. I think I will extend the handles as the additional leverage will make it a better experience. If I was to redo it, I think I would have probably gone with a 25w 12v dc 60rpm geared motor, or something close. I am not at all dissapointed. It works really well so far. I will expose any problems as time passes. I will also share any information I have as this forum is here so we can help each other. I hope to sit down and ad up my cost, time, pros/cons, observations, etc... so men can be informed as they weigh their options. I would definately say this is a poor man's option or a guy who likes to make stuff option. The first, poor man, may need to even reconsider it as he might do better to make money sawing with shorter life span to blade and make money to buy a debarker. For the maker, he would get the satisfaction, experience, and this camp also sees other opportunities that may come from engineering/fabricating. Thank you for helping me see the difference between these two terms. 

Btulloh, thank you for the response on the bugs, Very good. I hate for my son to spend $1500 on making a very tight little office and it is ruined because I gave him bug ridden wood  :(. I think this response was for my other thread. I will copy/paste your response there.

-Mike


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Re: Building a DIY Homemade debarker for my Woodmizer LT35HD
« Reply #66 on: March 14, 2019, 10:30:57 AM »
Oops
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Offline Southside logger

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Re: Building a DIY Homemade debarker for my Woodmizer LT35HD
« Reply #67 on: March 14, 2019, 10:44:17 AM »
Mike - the success looks great.  However, the lingering question is did you remember to lower the toe board after that cut or did you end up making long wedges in all of the excitement?   :D

On your idea of a gear motor I would do a lot more research on that before using one in such an application.  I had to replace a starter last year on my buncher and the only one available was a gear motor, which was fine but the starter shop guy cautioned me that gear motors are not intended to run for extended periods of time without premature wear.  5-10 seconds is fine under load he said, but 30 seconds of cranking and they will heat up fast, FWIW 
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Re: Building a DIY Homemade debarker for my Woodmizer LT35HD
« Reply #68 on: March 14, 2019, 12:10:42 PM »
SSL, I did mean to exchange the handle in/out lever for a motor and certainly not the debarker motor. 

Good point about motors burning out. But that is a specification of duty cycle, not geared vs non-geared.

I made a coffee bean mixer a few years ago that would stir 25 lbs of coffee beans at about 20RPM and it did not skip a beat even in a very warm environment for lengthy time periods and the manufacturer recommended that particular motor to me. 

The woodmizer 1/30HP motor used to swing the debarker in/out is also a geared motor, at least on the LT35. But I surmise also on the larger machines, as they use double gearing down - geared motor and pulleys. The gear motor gives the breaking power. If they used only pulleys the swing arm would just go move away from the log as soon as the switch was released. However, when the switch is released, the geared motor will not be budged so acts as a hold and only spring movement occurs. 

I may not feel like this once I extend my handles a little, but they are really stiff. 

-Mike

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Re: Building a DIY Homemade debarker for my Woodmizer LT35HD
« Reply #69 on: March 18, 2019, 10:05:51 AM »
I am sorry for the delay on posting the video. I can't get my laptop to recognize my micro SD card off my phone. Finally took some time to learn the youtube app this morning. I don't know how to edit yet, but uploading was easy enough. Here it is:




and 



-Mike

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Re: Building a DIY Homemade debarker for my Woodmizer LT35HD
« Reply #70 on: March 18, 2019, 11:07:14 AM »
Nice.  Thanks for the videos.

Curious to see how the debarker behaves on uneven logs or stubs.  Is it spring loaded so it tracks the contour?
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Re: Building a DIY Homemade debarker for my Woodmizer LT35HD
« Reply #71 on: March 18, 2019, 02:54:56 PM »
 8)  So the depth of cut is determined by the strength of the spring and how fast you are traveling?

Nice wide gap but looks like maybe it should be raised just a tad?  It almost looks like your band blade is riding on the edge of the bark.
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Re: Building a DIY Homemade debarker for my Woodmizer LT35HD
« Reply #72 on: March 18, 2019, 03:57:44 PM »
If you'd ever see a blade break you wouldn't have done what you did in the 2nd video. :)

Debarker looks like it's doing well though. Nice work!

Alan

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Re: Building a DIY Homemade debarker for my Woodmizer LT35HD
« Reply #73 on: March 21, 2019, 12:32:15 AM »
btulloh, I will film an uneven log. I have found I need to adjust the handle when there is a significant change in the log. Too much pressure will dig in too much and trip breaker. This will be easier once I extend my handles (More leverage).  It is spring loaded indeed. There are two springs, one on each side of the bycicle sprocket.  At this point, I can see putting a geared motor at some point after I have my shop setup. But this may get nixed after I extend the handles and have mor eleverage. 

BTW, since I had to wait a couple weeks for woodmizer springs as they did not have any in stock (only made this one year) I ended up using some hardware store springs. The woodmizer springs arrived a few days ago, so I will put them on (twice the diameter of the ones I have, so this may make it good to go with my current length hadles. Just been so busy, I haven't gotten to it, but I will do it and let you know how it went. 

ljohnsaw, that is correct, you swing the debarker around and it makes contact, then you ad an additional click of pressure tot he log. Sped is not a factor in depth that I can see. It may be, but I cannot tell it as I use it. I think the depth is from pressure and the limit is accomplished by the negative angle of the blade. The newer models have a depth guage (largedisck - think giant washer that rides next to the blade and limits depth of cut. I did not get it. 

Alan, you are right. I had actually had my first blade break yesterday and it was a violent moment indeed. As my dear wife says... no good Pepe! :)

Goodnight gents. 

-Mike


Offline Ga Mtn Man

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Re: Building a DIY Homemade debarker for my Woodmizer LT35HD
« Reply #74 on: March 21, 2019, 05:38:46 AM »
Man, that is awesome MikeySP!  My first mill didn't have a debarker and I had folks send me lots of pics of their debarker. After studying the pics I decided it was above my fabrication skills to try to make one.  Hats off to you. 

I think Wood-Mizer (or maybe it was somebody on the forum) recommends that the band travel near the lower edge of the debarker kerf, because that's where the debarker cut is the deepest.
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Re: Building a DIY Homemade debarker for my Woodmizer LT35HD
« Reply #75 on: March 21, 2019, 06:39:50 AM »
Ga Mtn Man, thank you! It may have been a much better use of your time. I am glad I have it and there is no way I would have gotten one for a few months otherwise. 

I can't believe I did not think clear enough to see that. I have had some cuts, especially on dirty logs with no bark, where the blade was just north of the triangle shaped kerf and instead of asking myself, "what is the solution?", I thought, "bummer, I guess I need bark and maybe a little debris sand blasting is cleaning some of it." I will be making that adjustment today of blade to the southern edge!

Big thank you sir!  

-Mike



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Re: Building a DIY Homemade debarker for my Woodmizer LT35HD
« Reply #76 on: March 21, 2019, 07:02:50 AM »
Almost forgot. But, I want to help anyone else keep their ship afloat and on azimuth if they embark to debark :)

The bicycle crank works and pretty well; however, I would go with the appropriate hardness shaft for those lateral forces and some good sized sealed bearings inside a thick walled steel tube that has some bearing recesses turned on a lathe. I have seen the debarker under certain conditions (not sure what they are yet) chatter up and down along the cut. I may do as Tom the Sawyer says soon and setup a camera to film all, and I will share it with you as I try to learn to cut better and perhaps have clarity to see what is the cause of this occasional chatter. So, I am only putting this here in case it is springiness in a bicycle crank. If this is the case, I will use it as is for at least several months, but once I have a shop on my property, I will make a few mods and this may be one of them. Would be fairly quick. 

I will take out some time today to mount the factory springs and see if that alleviates the great tension I feel on the handle and perhaps that will take away my perceived need to extend the handles or add a gear motor down the road. 

Have a great day! 

-Mike

  



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Re: Building a DIY Homemade debarker for my Woodmizer LT35HD
« Reply #77 on: March 21, 2019, 09:19:29 AM »
BTW, Southside Logger, in answer to your inquiry: "the lingering question is did you remember to lower the toe board after that cut or did you end up making long wedges in all the excitement?"

I know nothing.... However, I was delayed in responding because I had taken a photo of this long and pointy board that someohow showed up after that... but apparently I did not push the photo button and it did not take. So all evidence is gone and you can't prove a thing  :D



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Re: Building a DIY Homemade debarker for my Woodmizer LT35HD
« Reply #78 on: March 21, 2019, 01:00:41 PM »
Factory springs are much more user friendly. Allows gliding over edge without digging and much easier to pull handle. Negative side is it does not allow max arc. So, on a small log, I need to move the chain a few teethe on the sprocket. If a radical difference between logs occurs such as 28", 10", it would be a headache. If I motorize it, this problem disappears. For now... very satisfied, but I will plan on a gear motor in future. Factory springs were spendy. If, when I make any changes, I will update. 

Offline ljohnsaw

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Re: Building a DIY Homemade debarker for my Woodmizer LT35HD
« Reply #79 on: March 21, 2019, 01:39:59 PM »
We (I) need to see the whole picture of where the springs are in relation to your ratchet thingy.  For quick adjustments for different sized logs, could you make up an over-center like link where the springs attach to the saw head?  Like what is used on chain binders.  So, for a small log, you latch the inside one and unlatch the outside one.  Opposite for a large log.  Or maybe a disk that you can rotate (like a sprocket ;)), and set to 2 or 3 stops for small, medium and large logs?  The disk would be attached to both springs to simultaneously tighten and loosen the pair of springs.
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/32" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.


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