The Forestry Forum is sponsored in part by:

iDRY Vacuum Kilns


Forestry Forum
Sponsored by:


TimberKing Sawmills



Toll Free 1-800-582-0470

LogRite Tools



Norwood Industries Inc.




Your source for Portable Sawmills, Edgers, Resaws, Sharpeners, Setters, Bandsaw Blades and Sawmill Parts

EZ Boardwalk Sawmills. More Saw For Less Money!

STIHLDealers.com sponsored by Northeast STIHL


Woodland Sawmills

Peterson Swingmills

 KASCO SharpTech WoodMaxx Blades

Turbosawmill

Sawmill Exchange

Michigan Firewood, your BRUTE FORCE Authorized Dealer

FARMA


Baker Products

ECHO-Bearcat

iDRY Wood Lumber Vacuum Drying for everyon

Nyle Kiln Dry Systems




Author Topic: Spruce, Pine, Doug Fir, ER Cedar & Hardwoods  (Read 599 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Sedgehammer

  • Full Member x2
  • ***
  • Posts: 151
  • Location: East central Oklahoma
  • Gender: Male
  • Old enough to know better, but ya only live once!
    • Share Post
Spruce, Pine, Doug Fir, ER Cedar & Hardwoods
« on: February 26, 2019, 10:42:44 PM »
Just found out from the mill that they have beetle kill spruce and pine along with the doug fir, but the doug fir is green. They said the spruce and pine are very stable. Spruce as big as 14" x 24" x 35'.

Interior;

As some of you know we have 24' & 20' spans 2' oc with exposed ceiling joists and 2x8 syp t&g for the ceiling. Going with 4x12's. No, don't need it, but it's a look thing.

20'  span 2' oc exposed floor joists. 4x12's here also, as the 2x8 syp t&g ceiling.

Also going with 8x12 ridge beam in-between the cathedral ceiling joists.

I can get the doug fir dried for $0.35 a board ft.

I know the df is stronger, but the pine and spruce more than do the spans.

Exterior;

We are also doing an exposed ceiling joist wrap around porch and a big timbered porch all with 2x8 syp t&g cieling. We are going to put ready seal on all the rough cut joists & timbers regardless of species interior and exterior.

Plus we are going with 12x12 porch posts. Posts will be tucked in 3' from drip line.

Exposed rafter tails were either going to be cedar or doug fir

Fascia was going to be either cedar or doug fir

For you guys that work with big timbers, what would you use where and why?

Also just found a place where I can get green 12x12 hardwood posts or 12x12 eastern red cedar ones. Price points are all roughly the same.

Would you prefer these over the pine/fir/spruce posts and why?

Thanks

Offline Don P

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 6000
  • Location: Southwestern VA
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
    • Calculator Index
Re: Spruce, Pine, Doug Fir, ER Cedar & Hardwoods
« Reply #1 on: February 27, 2019, 07:39:16 AM »
If you are trying to build a floor out of clearspan 24' long 4x12's the plan needs more thought.
A laborer works with his hands
A craftsman uses his brain and his hands
An artist uses his brain, his hands, and his heart

Offline Sedgehammer

  • Full Member x2
  • ***
  • Posts: 151
  • Location: East central Oklahoma
  • Gender: Male
  • Old enough to know better, but ya only live once!
    • Share Post
Re: Spruce, Pine, Doug Fir, ER Cedar & Hardwoods
« Reply #2 on: February 27, 2019, 08:31:57 AM »
If you are trying to build a floor out of clearspan 24' long 4x12's the plan needs more thought.
the 24' is the ceiling joists. we've already discussed that part. it passes at 30lbs psf. Can even go out to 32" oc.

Offline Brad_bb

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 3834
  • Age: 47
  • Location: Joliet, IL and Indy
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: Spruce, Pine, Doug Fir, ER Cedar & Hardwoods
« Reply #3 on: February 28, 2019, 12:29:54 AM »
While any of the 3 can be used, I'd go for the DF if you can get the grade(s) you need.  It's the highest strength to weight ratio, and has a nice look.   For tie beams, you need the best material, as they span the longest distances.  Are you able to specify grade from this mill?  Although most designs are done assuming grade 2 common, you really don't want any of your timber to actually be grade 2. Tie beams need to be #1 or preferably select.  Posts can be your lowest grade, but you also need to keep in mind that you need good wood there the joinery will occur.  It's hard chopping through knots, so avoid if at all possible. Rafters need to be #1 or better as do most horizontal beams.  Have you read the NELMA rules to understand the grading?  In Steve Chappell's book "A Timber Framers Workshop" I believes he talks a bit about visual grading of timbers, which you should become familiar with so you visually grade your timbers.
Anything someone can design, I can sure figure out how to fix!
If I say it\\\\\\\'s going to take so long, multiply that by at least 3!

Offline Sedgehammer

  • Full Member x2
  • ***
  • Posts: 151
  • Location: East central Oklahoma
  • Gender: Male
  • Old enough to know better, but ya only live once!
    • Share Post
Re: Spruce, Pine, Doug Fir, ER Cedar & Hardwoods
« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2019, 05:33:58 PM »
I agree the DF looks better (especially now that I have stained the different samples) and is the better wood, it's just I'll need to dry it vs the other

Yes can specify the grade

Have not read anything yet on grading the wood. I'll check that book out. Good idea

Do you have any issues with using DF for exposed rafter tails like these in the picture? It's from my pump house that we are building. The house will have similar. I would probably use the cedar for the fascia though





Thanks again!

Offline Dave Shepard

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 11122
  • Age: 2014
  • Location: Alford Massachusetts
  • Gender: Male
  • Geometrically proportional
    • Share Post
    • My homepage
Re: Spruce, Pine, Doug Fir, ER Cedar & Hardwoods
« Reply #5 on: February 28, 2019, 06:07:48 PM »
Why does the doug fir have to be dried?
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"Logrite!

Offline Sedgehammer

  • Full Member x2
  • ***
  • Posts: 151
  • Location: East central Oklahoma
  • Gender: Male
  • Old enough to know better, but ya only live once!
    • Share Post
Re: Spruce, Pine, Doug Fir, ER Cedar & Hardwoods
« Reply #6 on: February 28, 2019, 06:45:21 PM »
Doesn't necessarily have to be, but we are using dried for the rest of the framing and if I dry it, I don't need to guesstimate shrink.

Offline Sedgehammer

  • Full Member x2
  • ***
  • Posts: 151
  • Location: East central Oklahoma
  • Gender: Male
  • Old enough to know better, but ya only live once!
    • Share Post
Re: Spruce, Pine, Doug Fir, ER Cedar & Hardwoods
« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2019, 01:38:07 PM »
Does anyone have issues with using DF for the exposed rafter tails like I show in the above picture? 

It's either DF, ERC or WC. 

All the porches will be using exposed ceiling/roof/rafter tails, so besides just the tail being exposed, the entire rafter will be also.

Thanks

Offline Mike W

  • Full Member x2
  • ***
  • Posts: 180
  • Age: 50
  • Location: Boundary Washington - Right on the edge of the Northern Boarder
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm new!
    • Share Post
Re: Spruce, Pine, Doug Fir, ER Cedar & Hardwoods
« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2019, 02:01:10 PM »
I don't see any issues as long as it is treated to protect against he elements.  DF is typically used in conventional framing and the outlookers supporting the barge is usually DF as well.  I would just get something a bit more resistant to weathering for the fascia and barge.

Offline Sedgehammer

  • Full Member x2
  • ***
  • Posts: 151
  • Location: East central Oklahoma
  • Gender: Male
  • Old enough to know better, but ya only live once!
    • Share Post
Re: Spruce, Pine, Doug Fir, ER Cedar & Hardwoods
« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2019, 10:06:07 PM »
Thanks Mike

What is anyone's thoughts on running the 4x12 DF timbers with the SYP t&g in the bathroom area? 

Ceiling is 10'. 

Shower will be self contained, so no exposure in it. Will have jet tub, but only expect to use it a few times a month at best.

SYP will be poly'd and the timbers will have ready seal on them, but don't want to have to re-coat them, but if needed, would do so.


Share via delicious Share via digg Share via facebook Share via linkedin Share via pinterest Share via reddit Share via stumble Share via tumblr Share via twitter

xx
Unexpected load of logs today! Cedar and Doug fir.

Started by golddredger on Sawmills and Milling

8 Replies
1520 Views
Last post October 31, 2014, 02:26:26 PM
by golddredger
xx
spruce pine/sand pine id

Started by caveman on Tree, Plant and Wood I.D.

11 Replies
1656 Views
Last post November 12, 2014, 07:42:59 AM
by WDH
xx
Red Pine vs Spruce?

Started by shortaction on Sawmills and Milling

22 Replies
2379 Views
Last post January 27, 2018, 06:59:41 AM
by 47sawdust
xx
Transplanting spruce & pine

Started by sprucebunny on Ask The Forester

11 Replies
3994 Views
Last post January 01, 2005, 06:03:16 AM
by SwampDonkey
 


Powered by EzPortal