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Author Topic: The continental difference?  (Read 1259 times)

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Offline OddInTheForrest

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The continental difference?
« on: February 28, 2019, 08:57:08 PM »
Now, this migth be interesting. I have been an actice reader on the forum for a while, and I must say, there are a lot of good knowledge here ! 
English is my second language, so I apologise in advance for the gramar and missing letters ;)

Over to the thoughts I have :

It may seem that saws in Europe and The US/Canada, have the same powerheads, migth differ in where they are manufactured, but more or less same heads, but will be sold with a variety of different bar & chain options.
Whats the forums thinking of all this?

I mean, I come from Norway, the country of concervative chainsawbars. I know people who have been fulltime loggers for a whole life, and never ran a bar longer than 13" on a saw never larger than 55cc. And they where and are highly productive!

So, I would be interested in a friendly conversation about the ideas we have of these differences! As for myself, I normally have a 14" 00.50 Bar&chain on my go-to saw, used for smaller thinning and felling. If I take my trusted old Stihl 039 for a walk, it usually ends up with the 18" 00.50 B&C.

It is what suits me best, and I try to minimize weigth, as I really dont see the point of lugging my 660 with a 36" 00.63 around, if I can manage with the MS200, I hope this makes sense.

So, what is the forums ideas and thougths on this subject? 

Best regards
Odd :) 

Offline sawguy21

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Re: The continental difference?
« Reply #1 on: February 28, 2019, 09:22:47 PM »
Welcome to the forum!! I am of Norwegian descent, my ancestors were fom Nord Aurdal. It is interesting, 13" bars are almost unknown here except on pruning saws. Even the consumer saws start at 16". In the British Columbia interior where I live most fallers are using 24" to 30" bars except in the large cedar. On the coast they use 36" and still cut fom both sides of the tree. The long bars have fallen out of favour as they are too unweildy on steep slopes in thick underbrush
old age and treachery will always overcome youth and enthusiasm

Offline Inaotherlife

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Re: The continental difference?
« Reply #2 on: February 28, 2019, 09:25:19 PM »
I'd hate to try and flush cut a 26 inch stump with a 13 inch bar.

I have a 20" on my Echo CS-490 because that's what it came with. A shorter bar would be nice for just cutting firewood and stuff, but I appreciate the 20" bar when I need it.

My most used saw is an Echo CS-361 with 14" bar and chain.

Online lxskllr

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Re: The continental difference?
« Reply #3 on: February 28, 2019, 09:26:53 PM »
I'm not any kind of pro, but if I can do something in one cut, it's my preference. IOW, I prefer bars on the longer side. That has it's limits. The longest bar I own is 25", and I could see going up to 32" if my life changed, and I was cutting a lot of big wood, but after that, I'd just deal with what I had, and make as many cuts as necessary.

Offline Old Greenhorn

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Re: The continental difference?
« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2019, 09:30:57 PM »
Interesting subject and very well posed, I think. Being of Norsk heritage and having spent time in your beautiful majestic country, I think I understand a little about the mindset you are speaking about. I still have a fair amount of family in Norway.
 I have noticed the same thing with boats. We run big fast powerful personal family boats here, in general. I saw VERY little of that in my time in Norway. My cousin Kjell for instance has a lovely single cylinder diesel 5 hp boat. It is about 18 foot long and has a small cabin and pilot house. When I asked him about why the engine was not bigger, his answer was simple: "If you are in a hurry to get somewhere, you should not be going there in a boat." He also, put the local chart on the deck and when I saw all the rocks I realized how dangerous it would be to go zipping around. I grew up on boats, I know charts, that was scary.
 I think we try to do things better and faster here, which for us, as a society means, " Bigger, faster, more power". For me, I use what I need for the job. An 18" bar covers just about everything for me (I cut up to 24" trees) on a 50cc saw. However, I would like to cut some larger cookies off of some of the stumps and it is easiest done if the bar can go all the way thru in one shot, but no, I don't want, or need to use a 24" bar on felling and limbing, it doesn't make sense to me. I am sure you will get differing opinions. I can say that a larger saw will likely work a little less hard and last a lot longer doing work it is over sized for.  There is something to be said for that. Having a saw that runs all day everyday has a lot of value. 
 It will be interesting to see how this goes.
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Offline HolmenTree

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Re: The continental difference?
« Reply #5 on: February 28, 2019, 10:57:13 PM »
Welcome to the forum Odd,
My Grandfather was a few years younger then you when he left the family farm at Florholmen, Norway in 1905 and immigrated to South Dakota, USA. He shortened his surname Florholmen to Holmen to sound more American.
He met my Grandmother there in South Dakota. She immigrated from north east of Bergen, Norway  at Alesund-Andalsnes area. They got married and moved to Saskatchewan, Canada and started a lifetime of farming.

As a logger here in Canada I ran saws from 60cc to 92cc with b/c 15" to 22". Never logged with a 50cc, was too small for our frozen solid spruce in winter.
Now as a arborist a 50cc -16" saw is one of my favorites to use but a 60 to 70cc saw with 18" b/c is what I use most.
I have run a 14" on a 550XP when removing small spruce trees, one of my best limbing saws.


 


Making a living with a saw since age 16.

Offline Caloren

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Re: The continental difference?
« Reply #6 on: March 01, 2019, 12:12:47 AM »
Odd, Another welcome to the forum! 8) My Wife has family from Rogaland area, Sand, Ulladalen, and there a bouts. Been there several times and love the country and people. I guess you saw that there are a lot of Norske descendants on this forum!

Not a professional but do a lot of clearing second growth trees and brush. The saw I use most is the little MS170 with a 14" bar. For bigger tree's I get the 028 with 20". The MS310 with 24" bar was bought so I didn't have to bend over so much trimming limbs [I am 6'4"] but has been used for big trees. We don't usually cut the biggest trees unless they die but have cut down several that has to be cut from both sides with the 24" bar.

Loren
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Offline OddInTheForrest

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Re: The continental difference?
« Reply #7 on: March 01, 2019, 01:19:13 AM »
Thanks for all the replies. I must say, I find this very interesting. Like said, I do most of my work with smaller saws, and most of the climbingjobs I do lets the 193T see some work. 

Very nice to see pictures of the saws, like Holmen posts. I`ve seen your posts, and must say I am impressed of your trailer ;) Something like that would be great for the jobs i see most of, but no chance of getting it road-legal in Norway ;)


Offline Ianab

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Re: The continental difference?
« Reply #8 on: March 01, 2019, 02:55:44 AM »
So much depends on the sort of trees you expect to cut. 

Here in NZ, trees are more like the Pacific Nth West, the same species grow here as exotics. So you get Redwoods, Douglas Fir, along with other imports from almost any place in the world.  So it's not unusual for me, as a hobby sawyer, to have to cut from both sides of a tree, with a 28" bar. AND the tree might only ~30 years old. Helped a friend firewood one cypress tree, with a Husky 3120 and 5 ft bar. AND he had to cut from both sides!!!!

Now if you are only cutting trees that are 12-18" max, then a 50cc saw with a 14" bar is perfectly sensible. Like you say, beats humping a 90cc saw around all day. What time you lose in having to sometimes cut from both sides, you gain on not having to sit down for a rest.   :D  Heck the local commercial guys will use a 40-50cc set up like that to do precommercial thinning on pine plantations. All you need to knock over an 8" tree, and you can drag it up and down hills all day. If you are spending all day knocking down every second pine tree on the side of a mountain, a light saw is worth a lot. 

But those regional differences means a lot. 
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Offline Air Lad

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Re: The continental difference?
« Reply #9 on: March 01, 2019, 03:16:31 AM »
Hi Odd
I too have an 039
It came with a chunky 16" bar and 3/8....063 chain
Once I established it would run well (it wouldn't run at purchase hence the bargain price)
I added a new 22" bar and full chisel 3/8....063 chain.
I have  50cc saws with 20/18/16 inch bars so the 22 was to just compliment the group
Another thing I did was to get a rim sprocket setup for the 039 and 3/8 and .325 cogs so all the saws can be interchanged to open up all types of options
Cheers mate
Ms 170/260c /039...Husk 142e/240e...Unloved Chinese 51.2cc that hasn't done anything wrong...2 x dead Mculloch's ..Vintage Poulan.. and a vintage Echo that still runs beaut

Offline twar

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Re: The continental difference?
« Reply #10 on: March 01, 2019, 03:23:41 AM »
I moved from Western North Carolina via Missoula Montana to SE Norway in 1983 ( I met a girl  :D.) In NC, I cut firewood on my parent's acreage from the time I was able to manage the saw (a monster of a Mcculloch--no chain brake and I'm not sure it had a muffler :o) In Montana, I worked weekends and summers for Champion International--and though mostly conifers, still a lot of big trees and big saws.

Then I came to Norway. Stihls and Husqvarnas everywhere--with short bars. Forest nearly everywhere too (here in eastern Norway), but mostly only mid-sized saws with short bars. And they work just fine. There are no 30" oak and hickory trees and there are no 16-year-olds determined to buck a 16" dry black locust. We have birch, Norway spruce and Scots pine, and never close to the size of the Doug firs and Ponderose pines in Montana (and our friends in coastal WA and BC will say Montana doesn't even have big trees  :D).

You see a lot of Husky 3--s and 4--s and Stihl 1--s and 2--s here, but fewer of the bigger models. And mostly 14" +/- bars. They work just fine in most situations. The bigger timber operations here (and even more so in Sweden and Finland) are not using chainsaws to cut trees anyway. Instead, they have a guy who sits comfortably in gps-guided harvester that makes logs from trees via 2 joysticks.

Offline twar

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Re: The continental difference?
« Reply #11 on: March 01, 2019, 03:24:42 AM »
Yes, what Ianab said...

Offline OddInTheForrest

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Re: The continental difference?
« Reply #12 on: March 01, 2019, 06:37:43 AM »
It is, like said above, a huge point in the mechanical harvesting that happends in at least scandinavian forestry. I'm quite certain I would do this educational way when I was young, if it had been offered where I come from in the country. Then again, I went to sea ;)

I have at least noticed for my own part, when working in comercial thinning and clearcutting of poorly maintained forest in my neck of the woods, I can manage with my trusted MS200 and a 14" b/c. Then again, I dont want to carry more than I need, the backpack, fuelcan, saw and myself is often more than enough in the west-coast hillsides and fjords.

I've been doing lawncare and treefelling from a young age as a parttime job, and its only in the last years that I have chosen to buy larger saws (60cc+) and longer bars. Managed to wear out a Stihl MS181CE in my youth, after 5 years of felling spruce in the 70-100cm range. I guess its just something you adapt to doing. Sure, it takes time to fell a large tree with a small saw, but I learned from age 13 to always keep my chain sharp. Razor sharp. Migth be a side effect from living in a area heavily re-planted with SitkaSpruce after WWII ;)

Best regards
Odd

Offline Allar

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Re: The continental difference?
« Reply #13 on: March 01, 2019, 08:26:04 AM »
The reason why Americans have bigger bars than Europeans is that the trees in America are a lot bigger. 
Even thought it does make me laugh seeing those weirdly long bars :D

Using shorter bar requires more steps, skills and knowledge. It might take a little more time to fell with a smaller bar but you'll be able to limb a tree a lot faster. And in the end of the day you will be less tired.
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Offline HolmenTree

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Re: The continental difference?
« Reply #14 on: March 01, 2019, 08:36:06 AM »
I moved from Western North Carolina via Missoula Montana to SE Norway in 1983 ( I met a girl  :D.) In NC, I cut firewood on my parent's acreage from the time I was able to manage the saw (a monster of a Mcculloch--no chain brake and I'm not sure it had a muffler :o) In Montana, I worked weekends and summers for Champion International--and though mostly conifers, still a lot of big trees and big saws.

Then I came to Norway. Stihls and Husqvarnas everywhere--with short bars. Forest nearly everywhere too (here in eastern Norway), but mostly only mid-sized saws with short bars. And they work just fine. There are no 30" oak and hickory trees and there are no 16-year-olds determined to buck a 16" dry black locust. We have birch, Norway spruce and Scots pine, and never close to the size of the Doug firs and Ponderose pines in Montana (and our friends in coastal WA and BC will say Montana doesn't even have big trees  :D).

You see a lot of Husky 3--s and 4--s and Stihl 1--s and 2--s here, but fewer of the bigger models. And mostly 14" +/- bars. They work just fine in most situations. The bigger timber operations here (and even more so in Sweden and Finland) are not using chainsaws to cut trees anyway. Instead, they have a guy who sits comfortably in gps-guided harvester that makes logs from trees via 2 joysticks.
twar, what a small world my cousin Tommy Moe came from Missoula, Montana. He is the only US skier to ever win 2 medals at a Olympic games.  He won gold and silver in the downhill alpine super G at the 1994 Olympics in Lillehammer, Norway.
My Grandmother Holmen is a Moe and alot of her brother's decendents still live in Montana.
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

Offline thecfarm

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Re: The continental difference?
« Reply #15 on: March 01, 2019, 08:40:12 AM »
Yes I could cut down a 4 foot white pine with a 18 inch bar. But kinda hard to cut through that 4 foot tree when it's on the ground. ???  :) 
I had some pine that went 4 feet across and some even bigger. But most was at the 3 foot and just a little bit bigger,like 42 inches.
I had a saw with a 28 inch bar. I would cut down the big ones with it and than cut out a log or two and than grab my 372 with a 18 inch bar to do the limbing.
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Offline twar

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Re: The continental difference?
« Reply #16 on: March 01, 2019, 09:37:41 AM »
...My Grandmother Holmen is a Moe and alot of her brother's decendents still live in Montana.
Small world indeed...though "everyone" in Norway has "an uncle in Minnesota". From the Great Lakes to the Pacific both north and south of the border, Hansens, Hagens, Olsens, Osmundsens, Moens (and Moes)...the whole way. :D

Offline HolmenTree

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Re: The continental difference?
« Reply #17 on: March 01, 2019, 10:13:41 AM »
...My Grandmother Holmen is a Moe and alot of her brother's decendents still live in Montana.
Small world indeed...though "everyone" in Norway has "an uncle in Minnesota". From the Great Lakes to the Pacific both north and south of the border, Hansens, Hagens, Olsens, Osmundsens, Moens (and Moes)...the whole way. :D
Yes PNW logging in B.C. and US wouldn't be what it is today if those mountain sheep Norwegians didn't show up :D.
Funny how Norwegian last names are usually names their Norge towns or farms are named after.
My Grandmother Moe name is a Isfjorden neighborhood near Andalsnes called Moa.
My Grandfather's Florholmen name in still on the Norwegian google map and its only a small farm on the Stjordalselva river near the Swedish border.
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Offline Old Greenhorn

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Re: The continental difference?
« Reply #18 on: March 01, 2019, 10:48:51 AM »
Funny how Norwegian last names are usually names their Norge towns or farms are named after.
Actually, this is not accident, nor coincidence. Traditionally, First names were selected by the parents, but the surname was derived from the father. In my Grandfather's case, he was Christened as Gunvald and his father's name was Gjert, so he was known to all as Gunvald Gjertsen (Gjert's Son). If and when a person left their farm or village, they would add the farm or village to their name, so my Grandfather (bestetefar) was then known as Gunvald Gjertsen [from] Lindtveit. When he emigrated to the US, it became just Guvald Gjertsen Lindtveit, so my name is no longer that of my Grandfather (Gjertsen), but that of the farm he came from. That name is derived form the old Norse language, but that is another story. For females the name would be the fathers name with Datter (Daughter) added as in 'Gjertsdatter'.
 I have done a little research on this, and some writing as well. Sorry for the diversion.
 Back to who needs a bigger bar and why.  :D ;D
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Offline hedgerow

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Re: The continental difference?
« Reply #19 on: March 01, 2019, 11:44:26 AM »
I make around 15 to 20 cords a year firewood for myself and most of that wood is locust and hedge. For me I can almost drive up to were we are cutting so lugging a chain saw is a non issue. My main two saws are 60CC-70CC  and we run 20 inch bars. We like having a little more power and a 20 inch bar will cut most of our wood. I did have a 90CC saw with a 36 inch bar for the big stuff but after two shoulder surgery's I couldn't get it started as it had no de compress so I sold it.  I may be trying to down size saw and bar size to save my shoulder some. We will see how the healing goes. Just had the last surgery a week ago last Tuesday. 


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