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Author Topic: Echo CS 352 tune and possible Muffler mod  (Read 724 times)

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Offline Greenerpastures

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Echo CS 352 tune and possible Muffler mod
« on: March 04, 2019, 05:26:54 PM »
Hi everyone, I got a new cs352 with a 14 inch bar and 91 vlx chain.
Ran just over a tank of fuel through it, let the saw run before shutting down.
 
The saw being new, I pulled the plug to ensure all was well.
First off I never felt as hot a plug or engine top.
There was a hint of oil on top of the pisnton and a little spot of soot
closer to the outlet.

I fell the saw has a slight bog coming off idle, it was so bad when I started the
saw from new, that I needed to take out the low screw 3/16 of a turn, this helped
a little, now this bog is a slow motion one that clears slowly and is subtle.

I put a tach on the engine and it tops out at 10,800, spec says 12,500 max,
so am on the safe side regarding fuelling, the seller said not to open
the saw up much above 11,000, as they do run very hot, and the more rpm 's
the hotter they get.

Wondering what you all recommend, if I take out the L any more am afraid the
idle will become uneven, it has done so  already from my initial 3/16 turn to get her
off the line, I idled her up to compensate, but still not as good as before the L adjust.

This is the only saw I have with a cat, am quite sure its contributing to the rather
hot running, but its new and I am hoping there may be things I can do other than
removing the cat.
Though I would like to hear how to address the cat for later, does it need to be cut
out, or is a large hole drilled through it enough.

Is the fuel filter in these 352 's restricted some how,   the way the subtle bog clears
slowly may be a fuel restriction from the tank, the seller / dealer says some of them
do not completely clear, this makes me think am not the only user to have mentioned
this to him.

Online lxskllr

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Re: Echo CS 352 tune and possible Muffler mod
« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2019, 06:08:36 PM »
I'm *not* the person to get tuning tips from, but I'll address the cat. Assuming it's like my cs400, it's pretty easy to gouge out using something like an old screwdriver. Once I got ~60% removed, I turned a drywall screw into it, egged out the hole, then gouged some more with the screwdriver. Altogether, I think I spent .5 hours on it, Not bad for using only manual tools. You'll probably want to remove the limiters(maybe H only) to get more adjustment on the carb.

Offline Greenerpastures

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Re: Echo CS 352 tune and possible Muffler mod
« Reply #2 on: March 04, 2019, 07:38:47 PM »
Thanks lxskllr
I will probably have a go at the muffler in due course,
It would be nice if a non cat one could be obtained, it must be quite a job
to get on opened up, not like my old stihl that was bolted together, easy.

Am more worried with the light bog, while I think more fuel through the L
would solve the bog, not sure I want to upset the idle any further, as it is
a little off being perfect, This small saw cuts well though, if only it ran cooler
and I could get rid of the slight bog.
Plug looks good, if anything a shadow of black soot only on the back corner
of the eye, but not on the eye as it runs under the electrode, so am cautious
as to not add suit from un-burnt fuel.

Online Allar

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Re: Echo CS 352 tune and possible Muffler mod
« Reply #3 on: March 05, 2019, 03:21:20 AM »
People buy echo's because of the their warranty. I'm not sure if your dealer is going to be happy if you start poking holes into your muffler.
Firewood & Chainsaw videos: Firewood Warrior - YouTube

Offline Greenerpastures

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Re: Echo CS 352 tune and possible Muffler mod
« Reply #4 on: March 05, 2019, 06:48:29 AM »
People buy echo's because of the their warranty. I'm not sure if your dealer is going to be happy if you start poking holes into your muffler.
Hi Allar
He may not be happy, but this saw is not able to breath, thats why it came tuned to
only 10,800 from the shop, there is no way it will last with the heat it produces with
the cat, and it will most certainly get scored and then of course it will be blamed on me.

Online lxskllr

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Re: Echo CS 352 tune and possible Muffler mod
« Reply #5 on: March 05, 2019, 07:37:09 AM »
People buy echo's because of the their warranty. I'm not sure if your dealer is going to be happy if you start poking holes into your muffler.
Reading around, their warranty isn't all that. They'll do everything they can to beat you out of it. Still a good saw, and I'd buy one again, but I consider the warranty invalid. Better to roll the dice, and do what you think is best for the saw imo.

Offline Rebarb

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Re: Echo CS 352 tune and possible Muffler mod
« Reply #6 on: March 05, 2019, 09:06:51 AM »
I personally do a muff mod on every new saw I buy and Echo's respond very well. 
I don't use warranties and never had to.

All different types of mufflers but they can be opened up with a little creativity. I leave the arrestor screen in but take a dremal to the arrestor plate.

Remove the limiters with a wood screw and retune.
With full tank of gas and clean air filter, turn idle screw until chain starts to move than adjust L by finding highest idle " sweet spot" then turn the L counter clockwise until you hear the saw slightly back off some....done.

Adjust the H in wood, it's easy.
You want to hear 4 stroking at wot then clear up in the wood....done.

Online Allar

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Re: Echo CS 352 tune and possible Muffler mod
« Reply #7 on: March 05, 2019, 09:17:46 AM »
The best solution would be to buy another muffler and muffler mod it. And if something happens with the chainsaw, you'll just throw the factory muffler on it and take it to a dealer  ;)

Just sayin'.



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Offline ladylake

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Re: Echo CS 352 tune and possible Muffler mod
« Reply #8 on: March 05, 2019, 09:51:47 AM »

Most likely will never need the warranty if tuned good with the muff opened up. As with most Echo saws the Cs352 gains a lot with the muff opened up.  Echo clogs them up the get by EPA regs.  Steve 
Timberking B20 12000 hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Dino setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

Offline Inaotherlife

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Re: Echo CS 352 tune and possible Muffler mod
« Reply #9 on: March 05, 2019, 10:49:18 AM »
I'm guessing this is the 352 with the cat, listed as 1.78 horsepower.
CS-352ES| All Products | PRODUCTS | ECHO | YAMABIKO CORPORATION

And this is the one without the cat, listed at 2.16 horsepower.
CS-353ES| All Products | PRODUCTS | ECHO | YAMABIKO CORPORATION

That's a pretty good increase if that's the only difference.

I pulled the cat and limiters out of my CS-346 that I bought used, and it runs real good.

Haven't gotten around to pulling the cat out of my CS-361P yet, but it came from the dealer with no limiters in place.
It runs good too, and was a tad rich as received. I left it rich as I think as it loosens up it'll begin to make use of the extra fuel.

Offline Greenerpastures

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Re: Echo CS 352 tune and possible Muffler mod
« Reply #10 on: March 05, 2019, 05:44:59 PM »
I'm guessing this is the 352 with the cat, listed as 1.78 horsepower.
CS-352ES| All Products | PRODUCTS | ECHO | YAMABIKO CORPORATION

And this is the one without the cat, listed at 2.16 horsepower.
CS-353ES| All Products | PRODUCTS | ECHO | YAMABIKO CORPORATION

That's a pretty good increase if that's the only difference.

I pulled the cat and limiters out of my CS-346 that I bought used, and it runs real good.

Haven't gotten around to pulling the cat out of my CS-361P yet, but it came from the dealer with no limiters in place.
It runs good too, and was a tad rich as received. I left it rich as I think as it loosens up it'll begin to make use of the extra fuel.
Hi Inaotherlife
That is some difference in the two saws, I took out the spark arrestor and was
presented with a huge cat, no wonder this saw is hot.
There was no limiters on my saw at all, the dealer had a good look in there today
when I dropped in to see him, he was surprised to see none in there, sure hope he 
does not get the idea I removed them.

Offline Greenerpastures

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Re: Echo CS 352 tune and possible Muffler mod
« Reply #11 on: March 05, 2019, 05:50:56 PM »

Most likely will never need the warranty if tuned good with the muff opened up. As with most Echo saws the Cs352 gains a lot with the muff opened up.  Echo clogs them up the get by EPA regs.  Steve
Its a little more complicated for me, Echo do not want customers screwing with their
settings, then on the other hand, I walked out of the dealers with a saw that had a 
slight bog, the dealer told me he sold a lot of this model, so as he was standing there
listening to the engine, I was left with the impression he heard the same as I did, and
yet never commented or offered to adjust anything, so I took the saw home and proceeded to work, the bog was still there, so I took it to him today, he leaned the H,
no bog now, but that thing runs hot, not what I like to see at all. When I get my job done with this saw, I will evaluate a muffler mod, or just sell it on and get a non cat
saw.

Offline Greenerpastures

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Re: Echo CS 352 tune and possible Muffler mod
« Reply #12 on: March 05, 2019, 06:06:05 PM »
The best solution would be to buy another muffler and muffler mod it. And if something happens with the chainsaw, you'll just throw the factory muffler on it and take it to a dealer  ;)

Just sayin'.
The only mufflers I found so far are costly, but they are straight through, maybe 
the echo dealer can sell me one, as long as it wont void that precious warranty
just in case she takes a ceasure, its nuts how they tell you 50:1 is to be used,
when there is plenty of evidence that more oil in the mi is better as long as the
engine is tuned a little richer, that way it still gets the correct amount of fuel to air,
and a little oil to help all round, its the emissions think I imagine, why not fry a saw
and make it again and again, that sure helps the environment.

Offline Inaotherlife

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Re: Echo CS 352 tune and possible Muffler mod
« Reply #13 on: March 05, 2019, 08:13:19 PM »
It's the oil. Some 2-stroke oils are rated for 100:1.






Offline Inaotherlife

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Re: Echo CS 352 tune and possible Muffler mod
« Reply #14 on: March 05, 2019, 08:38:10 PM »

Most likely will never need the warranty if tuned good with the muff opened up. As with most Echo saws the Cs352 gains a lot with the muff opened up.  Echo clogs them up the get by EPA regs.  Steve
Its a little more complicated for me, Echo do not want customers screwing with their
settings, then on the other hand, I walked out of the dealers with a saw that had a
slight bog, the dealer told me he sold a lot of this model, so as he was standing there
listening to the engine, I was left with the impression he heard the same as I did, and
yet never commented or offered to adjust anything, so I took the saw home and proceeded to work, the bog was still there, so I took it to him today, he leaned the H,
no bog now, but that thing runs hot, not what I like to see at all. When I get my job done with this saw, I will evaluate a muffler mod, or just sell it on and get a non cat
saw.
If you sell it you'll lose $100.
If you want a saw with a little more power that runs cooler, then don't let the man hold you down.


It ain't Echo's saw. It ain't the dealers saw. It's yours. You bought it.

Offline Greenerpastures

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Re: Echo CS 352 tune and possible Muffler mod
« Reply #15 on: March 06, 2019, 11:05:05 AM »
Things are getting worse.
After standing right beside the echo dealer as he adjusted the saw
yesterday, and seeing his tach read 12,400 I took the saw home.
Put my own tach on it as the echo man said his may be off because he
dropped it.
The was was leaned on the H jet, but to my astonishment my tach was
jumping all over the place, eventually creeping up to 10,200 , which I
certainly did not expect. I phoned the echo man and told him this.

Then I began to cut, the saw sounded off, would bark when coming down
from full throttle to idle, this was not happening when the saw was being tached
at the dealers, I ran one and a half tanks of fuel before rain set in.

Not being happy with a saw sounding rich, that was supposed to be leaned, and did sound leaned to me as the dealer tached it, this morning before work I pulled the plug,
gunge on the piston, way too much, the piston top went from having a dot of soot
on it near the outlet side after two tanks the previous day, to a mess that you would
expect to see after half a year of work with no attention paid to fueling.

Now nothing changed other than the dealer leaning the H, so how on earth did
this leaning result in a far dirtier piston top, and a saw that barked as it would
go from full throttle to idle, it did not idle the best either, and to me sounded like
it needed to be richened up, so it would do so, I brought the saw to the echo dealer
yesterday as I could not make sense of how it was running, with a slight bog, and
a slightly up and down idle, he looked at the plug and said she was slightly too rich,
leaned the H, and things have gone big time, from a dot of soot on a piston to a
bunch of black goo.
Am wishing I never seen this Echo, as its under warranty I did not want to play with
it so depended on the dealer, I am not looking forward to taking it back to the dealer,
as it was his adjustment, which I took his word for when he said he leaned the H,
that has now resulted in a worse running saw, and to make matters worse, its a clam
shell, and not as simple as just taking the jug off an  old style saw, the piston needs
cleaned, I can not believe that one and a half tanks of fuel put so much gunk on a
piston.

If this saw was leaned, I would not expect this, and my tach agrees with me, and
supported by the crap on the piston top I am now left with a saw that needs stripped
to clean it, I am nearly sure the dealer will not want to do this, and to top it off,
how can I trust when he tunes it again, catch 22, if I tuned it myself am sure the result
would have been different, but I was almost afraid to not wanting to void the warranty.

Not happy, had to order a plug after seeing the state of the piston, dealer said the old
one was ok yesterday, and added that a new one was costly at 12.00 euro, regardless of cost, a new saw that runs bad and messes a plug is really not up to me to replace, when I heard that comment about the price of a plug, I got a glimse of what lays ahead, was there a reason for not changing the plug, I would not have changed it if I richened up this particular saw, instead of leaning it, for I would know dam well what was coming. Rather odd my tach supports the evidence for the mess on the piston.





Offline ladylake

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Re: Echo CS 352 tune and possible Muffler mod
« Reply #16 on: March 06, 2019, 11:22:16 AM »

 Sounds like you're running up against the limited coil, most of these saws come set lean and your dealers made it leaner. Throw away the tach, pull the limiter caps off and open up the high until it slows down quite a bit, then cutting big wood gradually back in until it cuts the fastest.  These are good saws when tuned right, I have several and them around the mill a lot.  Steve
Timberking B20 12000 hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Dino setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

Offline Greenerpastures

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Re: Echo CS 352 tune and possible Muffler mod
« Reply #17 on: March 06, 2019, 11:41:21 AM »

 Sounds like you're running up against the limited coil, most of these saws come set lean and your dealers made it leaner. Throw away the tach, pull the limiter caps off and open up the high until it slows down quite a bit, then cutting big wood gradually back in until it cuts the fastest.  These are good saws when tuned right, I have several and them around the mill a lot.  Steve
The saw cut very well before I took it to the dealers, it had a small bog, and a little eratic idle, so we talked about the bog, and he adjusted the H, leaned it, I did not particulary want it leaned much more as I thought it had plenty of power, I did not want to lean the low either, as this was in my mind going the opposite way to what the saw needed, it needed more on the low to eliminate the bogging, yet this was in contrast to the slight shadow of soot on the piston top, but I was not going to move the H on a saw that was under warranty, so I told the dealer of how the saw was running, showed him the plug too, he took out his echo carb tool, couldn't see through him, but he said he leaned the H, he did not add to the L which I expected he would do, but who am I to argue with the echo dealer, he sells these and should know all about setting one up, so I trusted him and headed home to work.

EDIT, and yes, I mentioned the coil to the dealer during my phone call to let him know the saw was only reading 10,200, I asked was it limited, and he said maybe your tach cant read that coil, I said it read it the day before and was spot every time. I said it looks like the saw might be hitting the limiter, he said, it was under the 12,500 echo recommend, so it would be ok, despite me finding only 10,200 rpm, again, he is the echo dealer, so I trusted him.

Offline Inaotherlife

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Re: Echo CS 352 tune and possible Muffler mod
« Reply #18 on: March 06, 2019, 11:06:32 PM »
its nuts how they tell you 50:1 is to be used,
when there is plenty of evidence that more oil in the mi is better as long as the
engine is tuned a little richer, that way it still gets the correct amount of fuel to air,
and a little oil to help all round, its the emissions think I imagine, why not fry a saw
and make it again and again, that sure helps the environment.
So what mix are you using?
Too much oil can gum things up sometimes.

Offline Air Lad

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Re: Echo CS 352 tune and possible Muffler mod
« Reply #19 on: March 07, 2019, 04:53:08 AM »
its nuts how they tell you 50:1 is to be used,
when there is plenty of evidence that more oil in the mi is better as long as the
engine is tuned a little richer, that way it still gets the correct amount of fuel to air,
and a little oil to help all round, its the emissions think I imagine, why not fry a saw
and make it again and again, that sure helps the environment.
So what mix are you using?
Too much oil can gum things up sometimes.
Did see a youtube vid where Donnyboy added a capfull of extra oil in the tank for run in purposes
He said one more in the next tank and then go to normal
What ever that is    ??? ::)
Ms 170/260c /039...Husk 142e/240e...Unloved Chinese 51.2cc that hasn't done anything wrong...2 x dead Mculloch's ..Vintage Poulan.. and a vintage Echo that still runs beaut


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