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Author Topic: 1st Day of Revenue  (Read 1732 times)

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Offline boonesyard

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1st Day of Revenue
« on: March 09, 2019, 07:04:37 PM »
Well, it's been a great 1st year of learning. We've learned so much here on the form, cut our own logs, made some good moves and made my share of mistakes (I still thinks thats the best way to learn  ;D). We finally made the leap and took on our first portable sawing job for a customer. 

The project is sawing 5/4 and 9/4 (mostly elm) from salvaged urban logs for a large, reputable customer. I knew it would be a difficult job due to the not-so-perfect logs and plenty of trash metal to deal with, but we made a reasonable deal that should work for both of us. I'm fortunate in that this is not our sole source of income and I can give it a try without breaking the bank. I've got a lot to learn and this job allows me the freedom (and some income) to do that. It's been crazy cold and snowy up here (we're in another winter storm as I wirte this up) but yesterday got to 25, so we decided to spend the day on site cutting. 

We set up here for the day, but in the future, we'll move to a different area on the property. There was a slight uphill pitch to the loading arms, I need a bigger cant hook (or maybe level ground) stupid_smiley. Lesson 1 



We cut 9/4 all day. They wanted one live edge on most, these were some of what we did.



We've got a few left  :). Most of what you see were delivered by side dump, so the owner sorts through them, cleans, bucks and ques them up. Many more loads on the way. 

   

I've got the sawing bug BAD! We did OK for our first official day. About 2,200 bf while dealing with frozen elm, 8 blades (5 ruined to metal strikes), heavy slabs and
our newbie experience. All-in-all it was a good day. I look forward to getting a lot better at this with all of your expertise.
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Offline GAB

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Re: 1st Day of Revenue
« Reply #1 on: March 09, 2019, 07:16:04 PM »
In the logs that you hit metal was there blue stain on the stump side of the log?
I'm curious if elm shows stain from metal like some other species of trees do.
Gerald
W-M LT40HDD34 w/6' ext & SLR, JD 420, JD 950w/loader and Woods backhoe, V3507 Fransguard winch, Cordwood Saw, 18' flat bed trailer, and other toys.

Offline boonesyard

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Re: 1st Day of Revenue
« Reply #2 on: March 09, 2019, 07:19:21 PM »
Not that we could see at all. I can't get over how deep some of the wire, nails and screw are under the bark and how deep it can go, crazy.
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Offline Mike W

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Re: 1st Day of Revenue
« Reply #3 on: March 09, 2019, 07:27:51 PM »
Boonesyard,

congratulations on your first "paying" sawing job.  Sounds like you have a good working partnership with the log owners and expectations to get you up and going without too much stress on the customers "over expectations" from the lumber out of said logs.

You got that right, the 'saw bug' is vicious, I think its one of the worst addictions out there "sawdust addiction"  with all the horrible news out there on the masses OD'ing on this and that, keeps the media busy, just hope they don't get wind of the horrid "sawdust addiction"  then you'll start seeing news stories of those peeking over wooden yard fences at that big ole oak tree with a useless tire swing hanging from it, or the guy who suddenly comes to a screeching halt on a major highway to gawk at a tree stand off in the distance, while an eight car pileup builds behind them. ::)

best of luck to you, keep the posts and photos coming, we all like the pictures ;D 

Offline boonesyard

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Re: 1st Day of Revenue
« Reply #4 on: March 09, 2019, 07:42:54 PM »
Mike,

You're exactly right! Since I bought the saw, it's changed my persepctive on on how long the road trip really takes. A guy really does need to slow down or take the long route to look at shelter belts, wood lots, downed trees, big trees, small trees (and the beat goes on). I'm hooked 
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Offline GAB

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Re: 1st Day of Revenue
« Reply #5 on: March 09, 2019, 07:53:18 PM »
Not that we could see at all. I can't get over how deep some of the wire, nails and screw are under the bark and how deep it can go, crazy.
Thanks for the reply.
Cutting 1 inch boards one day on the third or fourth pass I sawed a square head 1/2" lag bolt in a pine log.
Blade went into the customer's metal dumpster.
Gerald
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Offline WV Sawmiller

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Re: 1st Day of Revenue
« Reply #6 on: March 09, 2019, 08:07:45 PM »
We set up here for the day, but in the future, we'll move to a different area on the property. There was a slight uphill pitch to the loading arms, I need a bigger cant hook (or maybe level ground) stupid_smiley. Lesson 1
   Congratulations. I understand sawdust is only slightly less addictive than cocaine and there are debates in some quarters about that.

   On the larger cant hook look down below on the sponsor's areas at the Logrite special offers. May be a great time to upgrade/add to your equipment list.
Howard Green
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Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once"

Offline boonesyard

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Re: 1st Day of Revenue
« Reply #7 on: March 09, 2019, 08:43:43 PM »
GAB
I've reshaped my share of blades during this past year, but I hit a lag bolt yesterday that reshaped it like I haven't seen. Every tooth was severely bent down at the same angle. I'll try to remeber to take a pic tomorrow, interesting to the tune of $25.

WV Sawmiller
I'll check out the cant hook specials. I've got a 48", but we moved some big ones yesterday that we had a 48" and two 60" on to move (again, the slight uphill thing). Even with th right setup, I think I want something I could move the world with, maybe the 78"er.
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Offline WV Sawmiller

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Re: 1st Day of Revenue
« Reply #8 on: March 09, 2019, 09:00:47 PM »
Boonesyard,

   I think each of us need a 78" Logrite in our kit. 

   BTW/FWIW - do you have a MagicMan special? Take the hook off a cant hook or make one if you have the skills and equipment, attach it to a short length of chain (I think I have about 30" of 1/4" chain on mine) with a chain hook on the opposite end. I take 1-2 6' pieces of 1/4" chain with hooks on each end. On those big ones especially if they don't want to roll over because of sweep or a stub or such I drive the cant hook into the top of the log, open my movable hydraulic clamp wide open, raise it a couple of inches and hook the chain to the clamp then adjust the chain as tightly as I can. Then I close the clamp moving the log about 2' at a time. I may have to repeat a time or two but usually one pull is enough to roll the log over onto the arms. 

   Also sometimes the claw alone is not enough to turn a really big heavy log and you may have get an assist from movable clamp.
Howard Green
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Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once"

Offline Mossy Chariot

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Re: 1st Day of Revenue
« Reply #9 on: March 09, 2019, 09:58:49 PM »
Boonesyard,
Looks to me like you had a great first payday!!
Mine was the day after Christmas and only 250 bf of Tupelo. 
My customer did send a picture of a table he made. 


 
Keep that sawdust flying!!!!



Tony B
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Offline boonesyard

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Re: 1st Day of Revenue
« Reply #10 on: March 09, 2019, 11:31:05 PM »
Boonesyard,

   I think each of us need a 78" Logrite in our kit.

   BTW/FWIW - do you have a MagicMan special? Take the hook off a cant hook or make one if you have the skills and equipment, attach it to a short length of chain (I think I have about 30" of 1/4" chain on mine) with a chain hook on the opposite end. I take 1-2 6' pieces of 1/4" chain with hooks on each end. On those big ones especially if they don't want to roll over because of sweep or a stub or such I drive the cant hook into the top of the log, open my movable hydraulic clamp wide open, raise it a couple of inches and hook the chain to the clamp then adjust the chain as tightly as I can. Then I close the clamp moving the log about 2' at a time. I may have to repeat a time or two but usually one pull is enough to roll the log over onto the arms.

   Also sometimes the claw alone is not enough to turn a really big heavy log and you may have get an assist from movable clamp.
WOW! As I read this post, I could see it working in my head, genius. I'm taking a week of vacation in a couple weeks to work on this customers logs and I guarantee I'll have an MM special ready to go. Thanks
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Offline boonesyard

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Re: 1st Day of Revenue
« Reply #11 on: March 09, 2019, 11:34:13 PM »
Mossy,

Never been around any Tupelo, but it sure looks like a keeper. I'm a little jealous of the species variety some of you guys get to play with.
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Offline WV Sawmiller

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Re: 1st Day of Revenue
« Reply #12 on: March 10, 2019, 10:53:50 AM »
   Here is my MM special in use with John turning a really gnarly walnut crotch. If you own a hydraulic mill you need one of these.


 
Howard Green
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Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once"

Offline boonesyard

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Re: 1st Day of Revenue
« Reply #13 on: March 10, 2019, 11:05:47 AM »
I think I've got something in the shop that will work well for the hook. After I move all of this snow today (probably take 6-8 hours), I'll be putting one together. Thanks for the pic.

    
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Offline GAB

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Re: 1st Day of Revenue
« Reply #14 on: March 10, 2019, 11:13:08 AM »
GAB
I've reshaped my share of blades during this past year, but I hit a lag bolt yesterday that reshaped it like I haven't seen. Every tooth was severely bent down at the same angle. I'll try to remeber to take a pic tomorrow, interesting to the tune of $25.
The lag bolt I sawed I hit almost perpendicular to the shank in both directions and I made it through.
The last 2 feet of log beyond it the blade was diving bad.
What you charge for a damaged or destroyed blade is your business.  
I charge what the last blades I bought cost each (including freight) and $10.00 for lost production.
Try and stay away from ceramics I hear that is bad.  So far I have not tangled with any.
Wish you some Happppy Sawwwing.
Gerald
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Offline Southside

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Re: 1st Day of Revenue
« Reply #15 on: March 10, 2019, 11:49:56 AM »
Try and stay away from ceramics I hear that is bad


Ceramic insulators make sawing a lag bolt seem like cutting cedar.... and just in case you are curious a chainsaw striking the same invisible insulator will make the same noise as the bandsaw made...>:(
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Offline boonesyard

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Re: 1st Day of Revenue
« Reply #16 on: March 10, 2019, 11:54:20 AM »
This is the band I talked about in my original post. We hit a lag and it bent all of the teeth in the same direction at almost a 90 degree angle. I think Woodmizer resharp would have their hands full trying to reset this one   :o
 
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Offline Stephen1

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Re: 1st Day of Revenue
« Reply #17 on: March 10, 2019, 02:08:00 PM »
I gave up trying to fix foreign object hit blades. I fold them and step on them in front of the customer. I then charge $35 a blade. I only saw by the hr so the customer looses the production not me.
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Re: 1st Day of Revenue
« Reply #18 on: March 10, 2019, 02:22:03 PM »
 :o  That blade is a total wreck!!  :-X



 
Here are my Magic Hooks.  I made both of them from broken logging tongs.  The hook from a discarded wooden handled cant hook/peavey would work.

The hooks are also available from Logrite: Replacement Hooks - Logrite Tools LLC
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Offline terrifictimbersllc

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Re: 1st Day of Revenue
« Reply #19 on: March 10, 2019, 02:38:56 PM »
That blade reminds me of a blackfish (tautog). Teeth sticking out sideways. 
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Offline WV Sawmiller

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Re: 1st Day of Revenue
« Reply #20 on: March 10, 2019, 04:11:37 PM »
   I made my Magic hook from an old headless cant hook from a flea market, 3' of 1/4" chain, a cold shut to connect the two and a chain hook on the other end. It works fine but if you make one from a Logrite hook I assure you it will work better as their hooks are much sharper and probably stronger. Mine was dirt cheap.
Howard Green
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Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once"

Offline GAB

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Re: 1st Day of Revenue
« Reply #21 on: March 10, 2019, 04:36:03 PM »
This is the band I talked about in my original post. We hit a lag and it bent all of the teeth in the same direction at almost a 90 degree angle. I think Woodmizer resharp would have their hands full trying to reset this one   :o.  (Image hidden from quote, click to view.)

I've never bent or seen teeth bent like that.  You might want to consider saving that one for the day you want to start a band saw destroyed sawing blade museum.  That one is definitely a conversation piece.
The blade that terrifictimbersllc removed from his mill at Bruno's in September '18 would be another museum or conversion piece.
In my opinion both of those blades are not remanufacturable to original specifications.
Gerald
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Offline OffGrid973

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Re: 1st Day of Revenue
« Reply #22 on: March 10, 2019, 05:23:05 PM »
If you havent already spend the money on a metal detector and catch up those items before the sparks if possibles.

Sometimes its just easier to save the bad one for the end and discuss firewood option vs blade costs :)

Keep up the sawdust and post pics, congrats on the successful day.b
Your Fellow Woodworker,
- Off Grid

Offline terrifictimbersllc

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Re: 1st Day of Revenue
« Reply #23 on: March 10, 2019, 05:37:17 PM »
This is the blade GAB is referring to that was "re-manufactured" at Bruno's. Haven't found out what did it. 



 
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Offline Tom the Sawyer

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Re: 1st Day of Revenue
« Reply #24 on: March 10, 2019, 05:54:59 PM »
I have had one blade that hit something and turned all the teeth the same direction.  It was a bundle of 3/8" chain that someone had 'stored' in the crotch of pecan tree many years ago.  No stain, stopped immediately, didn't cut through a single link and had to chainsaw the plank, couldn't back out when all the teeth were turned almost 90 to the same side.


 

Ceramic insulators don't turn the teeth, was able to resharpen this one but it only cut about 1/8" into the surface before I got it shut down.


 
This one stripped the teeth off the blade (didn't get a photo of the blade), and stopped it dead in its tracks.  Armor piercing round (no where near a firing range).


 
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Re: 1st Day of Revenue
« Reply #25 on: March 10, 2019, 06:04:59 PM »
 

 



 
Don't forget T fence posts.  This one was driven into a SYP log about 45' from the butt and broken off beneath the bark.  :o
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Offline John Bartley

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Re: 1st Day of Revenue
« Reply #26 on: March 10, 2019, 06:18:56 PM »
I can't get over how deep some of the wire, nails and screw are under the bark and how deep it can go, crazy.
Congratulations on getting started .... and on not giving up on your first day ! :)   Urban salvage has to be one of the most frustrating jobs you could take on.
As far as "deep" in the log .... here's a quickie story ...
I live in a an underpopulated area of the the North. A few years ago a friend and I took on a tree removal job for a friend with a cottage on a northern lake.  We took out 14 old growth Spruces, running 30"+ at the butt, and got 42 saw logs, 10-1/2' long each. I sawed them for myself and did 4/4 boards all the way around the logs, down to an 8" cant.  I needed a few 4"x4"s, so I split one of the 8" cants in half .... and dead centre in that first cant was a nail.  The angle that is was driven into the log suggests it was put there to hang something on.   When the tree I was cutting was young enough for someone to drive a nail into the pith, the ONLY people with nails in that wilderness were gold prospectors ..... and the prospector that hung his wet clothes to dry on that nail cost me a band !!  That nail had been there 100+ years....  If you want to know where that tree came from, look up Watabeag Lake, Ontario.
Keep having fun !!
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Offline terrifictimbersllc

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Re: 1st Day of Revenue
« Reply #27 on: March 10, 2019, 07:46:29 PM »
I hit this musket ball with the Peterson chain slabber. It was put into a sycamore tree in about 1860.

>
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Offline boonesyard

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Re: 1st Day of Revenue
« Reply #28 on: March 10, 2019, 08:03:53 PM »
MM

I've got a log tong we don't use at all, I'm going to convert it to a MM Special, thanks for the pic.

I know the trash in the trees cost us $$, but I find it very interesting the variety, age and wondering why and when the metal is there. 

I haven't seen a lot of damaged blades compared to you guys, but the pic of the one I  posted seemed rare. Looks like the same thing happened to TtS. Ours was also stuck fast and we had to chain saw it out. 
LT50 wide
iDRY Standard kiln (here soon)
JD 4520 w/FEL
lots of support equipment and not enough time

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Offline boonesyard

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Re: 1st Day of Revenue
« Reply #29 on: March 10, 2019, 08:22:15 PM »
Soooo, realistically, how much damage to a blade can be repaired? If there are a few teeth 50% buffed off, is it toast? Do you send in your damaged blades with the dull blades and just let Resharp decide which ones to replace. I know the shark toothed blade is a goner, just wondering how much it too much?
LT50 wide
iDRY Standard kiln (here soon)
JD 4520 w/FEL
lots of support equipment and not enough time

"I ain't here for a long time, I'm here for a good time"

Offline Magicman

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Re: 1st Day of Revenue
« Reply #30 on: March 10, 2019, 08:57:16 PM »
Realistically it may seem that we are constantly hitting metal but in actuality, not so much.  Unusual pictures are good for conversation for many years.  :D

I have several metal detectors but they are for my customer's use if they want to scan to possibly avoid a metal strike and save themselves $25.  I don't scan logs because I would then be spending my time scanning instead of sawing.  Maybe harsh, but they are the customer's logs and the customer's nails.

I no longer send metal strike blades back to Resharp.  They have become compromised and will/might leave tooth tracks so I won't saw another customer's logs with a previous customer's damaged blades.  He paid me $25 for it so it goes into the junk bin.
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Offline boonesyard

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Re: 1st Day of Revenue
« Reply #31 on: March 10, 2019, 09:13:46 PM »
That's about what I thought. I hadn't planned on sending any of my metal strike blades back. Why pay for shipping on something that will just be replaced. 

I've worked out, what I believe to be a fair deal, with the customer regarding metal strikes. I will be ordering a Dcoil type metal detector tomorrow to scan logs prior to sawing, at least for this job. I have the good fortune of having my dad work with me, he's soon to be 84 and in great shape physically and mentally. As a matter of fact, he still drives our tractor trailer occasionally. I figured the DOT physical doctor would take care of whether he could drive or not, but he just passed another one with flying colors thumbs-up. Sorry, I digress. Anywho, he really likes hanging around the mill and looks forward to things like scanning for metal. Should save us a few $$s.
LT50 wide
iDRY Standard kiln (here soon)
JD 4520 w/FEL
lots of support equipment and not enough time

"I ain't here for a long time, I'm here for a good time"

Offline WV Sawmiller

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Re: 1st Day of Revenue
« Reply #32 on: March 10, 2019, 09:22:38 PM »
   I'm with MM on the metal checking and strikes. Leave that responsibility on the customer. If you scan, miss deep metal then ruin a blade it's your blade. If he scans and misses one its his blade. Why take on unnecessary risk?
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2009 4wd Dodge PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Sthil 440 & 441, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once"

Offline Peter Drouin

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Re: 1st Day of Revenue
« Reply #33 on: March 11, 2019, 06:26:25 AM »
I don't save nail hit blades, Some jobs you hit a lot.


 
40 bad ones here. :D
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Offline Magicman

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Re: 1st Day of Revenue
« Reply #34 on: March 11, 2019, 08:43:39 AM »
I have saved many boxes of reject blades with the thought of using them as reinforcement steel in the next concrete pour that I do.  Probably the only thing wrong with that idea is ever pouring concrete again!!    :o   What could I be thinking??   ::)      
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Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Offline boonesyard

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Re: 1st Day of Revenue
« Reply #35 on: March 11, 2019, 08:50:46 AM »
Hmmm,

Saw blades, saw teeth, tying it up, might be interesting. We pour a lot of concrete. I'd love to see the engineer's look when they see our guys tying up sawblades in a slab or wall  :D.
LT50 wide
iDRY Standard kiln (here soon)
JD 4520 w/FEL
lots of support equipment and not enough time

"I ain't here for a long time, I'm here for a good time"

Offline Magicman

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Re: 1st Day of Revenue
« Reply #36 on: March 11, 2019, 09:46:06 AM »
I doubt that it would ever meet any engineer's spec.  The blade sides would sorta thin the concrete "thickness" by one inch whichever way it was turned, but in my instance, there is never an engineer and I always pour too think anyway.  ::)
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Offline Leigh Family Farm

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Re: 1st Day of Revenue
« Reply #37 on: March 11, 2019, 10:12:23 AM »
Congratulations on your first paid gig! I hope you learn a ton, make some money, and get a repeat customer in the end. 
There are no problems; only solutions we haven't found yet.


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