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Author Topic: Sawmill Building - Enclosed or Open  (Read 2143 times)

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Offline redbeard

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Re: Sawmill Building - Enclosed or Open
« Reply #20 on: March 12, 2019, 08:36:04 PM »
We're in same boat figuring out a covered area. Finding out it's getting longer  if your mill can cut 24' long you need 3 x that length and alot of real estate around building for fork lift too get in on all sides.
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Offline YellowHammer

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Re: Sawmill Building - Enclosed or Open
« Reply #21 on: March 12, 2019, 09:49:44 PM »
@Southside logger , what is dead sand?  Where do you get it? Just regular old sand?

Interestingly enough, after my rip replacement, I put down a nice big piece of rubber floor matting about 3/4" thick with 1 inch holes in it, I forgot where I got it, but it definitely makes a difference on my legs.  

Our clay is so hard that when they built our other building, they couldn't drill through it, they had to cut it with an excavator.  I'd brought in several feet in some areas and it will scuff with a shine when its walked on enough.

I'd really like to have a huge open spaced timber frame structure, old school.  Kind of like how Jack Daniels, up the road, builds things.  New stuff made to look old.  Surprisingly, we've more than one customer tell us they prefer the look of our old place, the old barn, over our shiny new building.

I appreciate all the input, some really good ideas.  Thanks.
 


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Offline Peter Drouin

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Re: Sawmill Building - Enclosed or Open
« Reply #22 on: March 12, 2019, 10:02:22 PM »
Mines only 24' wide x 100 one way, With most of it open I like my 45' door. All concrete floor 6" thick. 
All wood post some ATT poles I had some. The rest 16' Hemlock logs.
When I put it up I made the 45' door side facing do South for the low sun in the winter. Sommer time the sun is high. 12' top of the door.  The ridge pole is 24' off the floor vent on the ends.
The board and baton back side keeps the Northwind off me. I don't have sawdust in the face.
To me, the way the mill barn is facing is just as important too,

The snow and rain will come in 6" or so, the overhang is important.
What works up here in the cold North.


 


 


 


 


 


 


And don't hit a woodpile with a cat that has claws.


 


 

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Online Southside logger

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Re: Sawmill Building - Enclosed or Open
« Reply #23 on: March 12, 2019, 10:06:34 PM »
Well as far as regular old sand it depends on what your regular old sand is.  Under a microscope dead sand is jagged, not round, so it locks together, packs and stays put, but unlike clay will drain.  Beach sand tends to be more round particles so it won't stay in one place very well when you step on it, which is why running on the beach is so much fun.  Once packed our dead sand floor was solid, but not hard if that makes sense.  You could stab into it with a tool, but a hoof would not cut in.  I would think local quarry would know if they have it or not.    

Our red clay will get hard like that, especially if it has been run over, tread on, etc when wet and allowed to dry - it's brick material for a reason.  But get it wet enough and it turns to grease on the surface and then soup that sticks to everything, almost like gumbo clay out on the high plains.  
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Online Southside logger

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Re: Sawmill Building - Enclosed or Open
« Reply #24 on: March 12, 2019, 10:09:49 PM »
Peter - Which was worse - backing into the pile or the sound of pulling away after?  :D
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Offline mtoo747

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Re: Sawmill Building - Enclosed or Open
« Reply #25 on: March 12, 2019, 10:40:42 PM »
Peter - Which was worse - backing into the pile or the sound of pulling away after?  :D
That made me laugh  ::) Not that i've every done anything similar ... 

Offline Peter Drouin

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Re: Sawmill Building - Enclosed or Open
« Reply #26 on: March 13, 2019, 06:16:31 AM »
I try to be care full with the cat, I need to slow down some. ;D
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Offline Lawg Dawg

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Re: Sawmill Building - Enclosed or Open
« Reply #27 on: March 13, 2019, 06:40:51 AM »
 

 




  

 

My sawmill shed is small and open, but definetly old school! I built it for my first LT-15, I have the 40 crammed in there now, time for an addition! I would'nt have no other style building on my property. My customers come here for that....I could'nt run them out of here yesterday  :laugh:
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Offline longtime lurker

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Re: Sawmill Building - Enclosed or Open
« Reply #28 on: March 13, 2019, 09:09:50 AM »
If the issue is lack of three phase I'd hang with it until the current diesel is up for replacement then install a generator. You'll run a 50kva on about 2 gallons an hour, or 75 kVa on about 3 gallons an hour. (50 is enough for most anything + blower as long as you dont want to run it all at once. 75 will run a 4 header and blower.) You can rig it up far enough away that it isnt thumping in your ear.  The only issue you'll have with it is kicking yourself later for taking so long to do it.

The quickest way to make a million dollars with a sawmill is to start with two million.

Offline Kwill

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Re: Sawmill Building - Enclosed or Open
« Reply #29 on: March 13, 2019, 01:56:26 PM »

(Image hidden from quote, click to view.)
 
(Image hidden from quote, click to view.)


(Image hidden from quote, click to view.)
  
(Image hidden from quote, click to view.)
 

My sawmill shed is small and open, but definetly old school! I built it for my first LT-15, I have the 40 crammed in there now, time for an addition! I would'nt have no other style building on my property. My customers come here for that....I could'nt run them out of here yesterday  :laugh:
Lawg dawg what are the demensions on your saw shed?
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Offline boonesyard

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Re: Sawmill Building - Enclosed or Open
« Reply #30 on: March 13, 2019, 03:34:19 PM »
I'm going through the same consternation right now trying to decide how we want our sawshed designed. I know that whatever we come up with, we'll wish it was bigger in a short time. I've decided to wall up the west and north prevailing wind walls, and drop curtains for the south and east when needed. Also going with compacted class 5 floor, but we're working on a sawdust conveyer system that's movable (we'll see how that design comes along). 

I know one thing, don't take your roof load designs for granted. Figure out what your area requires, and then add to it. This is what I found at our city shop on Monday morning. The 50x120 building is 45 years old and was in excellent condition, but the snow last Saturday did it in. Not fun  :(

 
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Offline longtime lurker

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Re: Sawmill Building - Enclosed or Open
« Reply #31 on: March 13, 2019, 04:51:30 PM »
owww that hurts. Snow loading isnt something I have to worry about anyway.... 100mph winds yah, but not snow.

I love Peter Drouins' sheds. That entire timber frame construction thing always gives me a buzz and yanno it's the right way to build a sawmill shed. We're all of us in the business of wood, not running foundries. You want to advertise what can be done with post and beam, you arent doing yourself any favours by building your own spaces with RSJ's.

This mill shed design issue is something near and dear to my heart, for the simple reason that I have never had the luxury of having to build my own sheds. Prior to my commencing work from here this joint was a transport/wharehousing facility with some manufacturing capability. SO what I've got is a whole lot of shed.... but a lot of it is shed that was designed to handle palletised freight not lumber in packs. Along the way of putting up with this I've had a fair old shot at a graduate degree in how NOT to build mill buildings, and done a whole lot of dreaming about what I'd do different if I started with a blank slate.


1. You need a master plan. Not just this upgrade but the next and the one after that and some room just in case. This show is a cobbled together mix of sheds where they started with a farm shed mid slope , then did a skillion at the back, then attached at the front by digging into the hill, then dug out some more and attached again, then went 30 yards away and started again on a different bench height on the hill. Sounds good but digging back into a hill gives you access issues on 3 sides and you've got a shed to the front so doorways are at a premium.

2. You got to separate stuff. Thats about a couple of things... having dedicated spaces for certain tasks. It's about efficient use of space. Its about waste removal and not having an inch of fine sawdust in the machine shop because its downwind and attached to the drymill. It's also about fire containment. As I slowly demolish buildings here (with some help from those 100mph winds) and build new ones I am determined to let it sprawl out more. There is a time cost in that with regards say getting packs of wood from the mill to storage, then pulling them back to machine... but fire is the enemy of a sawmill and yanno a fire in any one shed - greenmill, timber storage/drying area, kiln, drymill, workshop/ machinery parking space.... should be able to stay contained there and not spread to other spaces. Its a terrible thing to lose the mill or all your lumber stocks, but it's a whole lot more survivable than losing both.

3. Water storage tanks. I'm lucky compared with some of you guys, I dont have to worry about having water freeze solid in storage. We have 3 x 6000 gal tanks, all interconnected and able to be isolated and those are straight up - water for fire fighting - tanks. If I havent got a fire stopped by the time the fire brigade pumpers get here its not going to be stopped, but I've got enough water to back them up to give a fair chance once they do get here of containing any fire to a given area. If I was doing that again I'd just go with an inground swimming pool.... heated for some of ya's.... but its tax deductible if its a water storage area for fire control yanno

4.Concrete floors: I love 'em. You know how some people are a woman trapped in a mans body or vice versa? Right... well I'm a big sawmiller trapped in a little sawmillers chequebook. I've been at this now for 10 years on my own account, starting as a little sideline thing with a Lucas Mill to currently running around 400 MBF a year, and I expect to double capacity in another 12 months, and double it again the year after that. A lot of that is because I tend to buy large capacity equipment second hand and grow into it. Thing with big toys is they are heavy, and they need sizeable footings, and that means serious concrete floors. If you cant bolt them down they vibrate and thats bad for the machine and bad for the finished product.
And its easy to keep clean, and it doesnt burn if the place catches fire, and the termites have to cross it to get to the wood so I can keep them under control. It also helps make flat lumber... I started with levelling wood bearers on a dirt floor to put lumber stacks on - there was always some settlement, and so much work. Just bang your bearers on the nice level concrete floor and start going up, and I can see the difference in how flat the lumber lays going into the planers.
The only shed space I have thats dirt floored is the machinery parking area under the old extension, and thats because the dirt catches the oil drips better under some of my old darlings. I've done the dirt floor thing, and I know how good a properly formed and packed dirt floor can be (think clay tennis court) but concrete is so much better.

5. Think about the direction your weather comes from, and prevailing breeze. You want air to flow through the wood in the drying sheds so they need to be sited across the wind. In an ideal world you find a way so that the greenmill, which is where the worst of the sawdust always is, is the most downwind building so that particulate from there isnt blowing through everything else. Everything here is coated in sawdust... its up in the Z purlins of the roofs slowly eating the galvanising away, its on the tops of drums of oil in the workshop, and anything left open on the bench has to be covered if you want it to stay clean.

6. Think about drainage. One thing this place does have right is being built on the slope of a hill I dont have too many drainage issues, and mostly the ones I have are about slowing the water down rather than mud puddles in the yard. I have no idea how many tons of rock have gone into this yard between me and the transport company before me but... lots.

TBC...
The quickest way to make a million dollars with a sawmill is to start with two million.

Offline moodnacreek

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Re: Sawmill Building - Enclosed or Open
« Reply #32 on: March 13, 2019, 07:20:23 PM »
My sawmill building , a 2 story gambrel roofed barn was kinda cute when we built it and before additions where put on. Got a lot of complements but I wouldn't do it again. It should have been a ugly shed roof because snow keeps sliding off for days after a good storm.

Offline PAmizerman

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Re: Sawmill Building - Enclosed or Open
« Reply #33 on: March 13, 2019, 07:51:25 PM »
Here is my latest brainstorm for the building I want to build.


 
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Offline YellowHammer

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Re: Sawmill Building - Enclosed or Open
« Reply #34 on: March 13, 2019, 11:49:06 PM »
I never considered water storage, I could use a swimming pool to wash the sawdust off,  :D

My current sawmill shed is a converted old barn, 48 ft x 48 ft, nice ambiance but a little too small.


The new building is 40x100, big enough but expensive and looks like a warehouse.  Great for our showroom, but not what Iím looking for in a sawmill shed.  



It would be cool to have something like Peterís 45 foot door opening in a wooden structure, or like some of the otherís.  We just donít see anything like that down here.  Everybody builds with metal.  

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Offline Bruno of NH

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Re: Sawmill Building - Enclosed or Open
« Reply #35 on: March 14, 2019, 06:44:10 AM »
I stoped at Peter Drouin's yesterday for a visit. 
His sawmill sheds just have that look.
It says New England 
I think folks stop there for that and the great service. :)
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Offline Don P

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Re: Sawmill Building - Enclosed or Open
« Reply #36 on: March 14, 2019, 07:57:39 AM »
I am seeing some very optimistic beam sizing in the pics above. For large spans especially do your homework, if solid sawn is getting out of hand consider LVL's which are over twice the strength of most solid sawn and then steel if that isn't working. Remember in steel you can get some very rigid, wind resisting connections, especially nice in a partially open building. You can always wrap steel in wood for pretty.
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Offline YellowHammer

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Re: Sawmill Building - Enclosed or Open
« Reply #37 on: March 14, 2019, 08:31:14 AM »
That is also in my mind, although I didn't mention it.  I live in a county where building inspections are a reality, and engineered drawings to code are required, with licensed contractors required for both our building and construction workers for structures used for a business.  The steel building quotes I have gotten so far all have PE stamped drawings.  The material for a 40x60 red iron "kit" are in the $20K range, available from several of the big steel building companies on the web.  I'd have to find my own construction crew, or do it myself, but who has the time?

I'd have no idea how to do that for a wooden open span structure.  I'm sure it can be done, I just wouldn't know how.  

Our old barn was grandfathered in.  Any new work, whether electrical, structural, etc means the exemption is voided.  So in many ways, to expand it isn't really an option, for the money, I might as well get something new.         
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Re: Sawmill Building - Enclosed or Open
« Reply #38 on: March 14, 2019, 08:43:57 AM »
What about steel building then build out all the columns to look like wood? Definitely be a ton of work but could be a nice touch. Showoff lots of things you can do with wood. Also make plenty of ways to hide wires, air lines, whatever.

Offline wisconsitom

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Re: Sawmill Building - Enclosed or Open
« Reply #39 on: March 14, 2019, 08:49:50 AM »
Yellowhammer, what mean you by red iron?  Just curious, and not familiar with meaning of phrase.

thanks,
tom


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