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Author Topic: mustang problem  (Read 2310 times)

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Online Jeff

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mustang problem
« on: April 02, 2019, 04:55:52 PM »
I;ve not driven this car other than on and off a trailer, and moving it in the garage.  After wiring it, the only thing I was not sure of was the electric cooling fan.  We took it outside and ran it, watched the gauge, it got warm but the fan never came on. I had another sensor here, swapped that out and still would not come on. That is when I noticed the heater hoses were both cold even though the engine was warm.  I pulled the thermostat housing and found there was no thermostat and the one heater house port in there was plugged with red silicone gasket sealer.   I got a new gasket and thermostat and put it in.  Car heats up then over heats fast.   Thermostat didn't open. top radiator hose is cool.

Is it possible that the electric water pump is turning in the wrong direction? Its obvious to me they had some sort of issue due to the red silicone and no themostat.
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Offline Raider Bill

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Re: mustang problem
« Reply #1 on: April 02, 2019, 04:57:43 PM »
Can you see water flowing in the radiator? Is there enough coolant?
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Offline lxskllr

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Re: mustang problem
« Reply #2 on: April 02, 2019, 05:02:41 PM »
Wiring the pump backward would make it turn backward, no?

Offline doc henderson

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Re: mustang problem
« Reply #3 on: April 02, 2019, 05:11:23 PM »
Does the coolant look clean and normal color.  I have had an air lock in a cooling system that stopped circulation.  Fan and pump kicked on but no effective circ.  can you hot wire the pump to see if it then circulates and therefor the pump working.  is the temp sensor turning on, can you test it separate with a heat source and ohm meter.  Do you need/use a thermostat (mechanical)  if using a electric fan and circ. pump?  and yes a dc motor should go opposite direction with reverse polarity, but the pump may not effectively circulate if spinning backwards to the way it was designed.  With the electric pump, it may dead head against a mechanical thermostat and take a long time to open it up since it cannot circulate. does the electric pump have a bypass circuit.  So for now I would remove that thermostat until fully dx. problem with electric stuff.  I am sure someone will have more first hand knowledge, but could check with a speed shop and see if this is normal to not have thermostat when using electrical components to reduce pull on motor for performance.
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Offline Holmes

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Re: mustang problem
« Reply #4 on: April 02, 2019, 09:48:42 PM »
Could it be a plugged up radiator? Is it an old car.  My 66 mustangs radiator was in poor/ plugged up  condition after15 years 
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Offline snowstorm

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Re: mustang problem
« Reply #5 on: April 03, 2019, 06:48:31 PM »
if that fan stat is sorta the same as a air clutch fan on a truck. the ones i have worked on had a 190 degree fanstat. that is in the tstat housing. when the water temp hits 190 power goes from one side to the other. wire that to the fan. i usually put a switch in so i can turn the fan on. the fan will need to be grounded. as far as overheating. do you think the silicone was to block off the hose? strange. why an electric pump? do you have a picture of the motor?   351? 

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Re: mustang problem
« Reply #6 on: April 03, 2019, 06:57:19 PM »
I'm having some trouble wrapping my head around the problem. Does this sound right?


Originally, the car kept cool(perhaps too cool), but it had no thermostat, and the heater core was blocked off.

It now has a thermostat, and the coolant goes to the heater core, but it overheats.

I don't understand how that could happen. The present condition is virtually the same as the original condition, and should if anything, keep the car cooler. Bad thermostat maybe? I've never had an issue, but I've heard of getting bad new ones.

Online Jeff

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Re: mustang problem
« Reply #7 on: April 03, 2019, 07:00:13 PM »
351w




I do not know if it stayed cool. I think it did not. Even at 200 the fan never kicked on, and the temp kept going up. That's why I started looking.
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Offline doc henderson

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Re: mustang problem
« Reply #8 on: April 03, 2019, 07:37:48 PM »
do u have a non contact thermometer.  A mechanical thermostat is needed for a mechanical fan and mechanical pump, to allow the engine to warm up.  all electric does not need one cause the system itself does not kick in until temp is reached i.e. the fan and pump.  does you electric thermostat relay have the thermistor in the block in the old location?  i would mock up the thermostat since you have a second and see if when heat is added of it closes the relay.  i assume the pump and fan operate when voltage is applied directly.  looks like a new alum. radiator.
timberking B 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.

Offline doc henderson

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Re: mustang problem
« Reply #9 on: April 03, 2019, 07:45:56 PM »
as nice a job as you did on the wiring, You should be able to isolate things and dx. the problem.  jumper or hot wire the pump and see if it makes noise and moves fluid.  jump the fan and see if it comes on and turns proper direction.   If they both work it has to be the elect. thermostatic switch.  make sure the sensor/thermistor is in a good spot.  
you can leave the mech. thermostat out or some will drill 1/8th inch holes to allow a little flow so the fluid and move and reflect the heat from the engine. if it (the pump)bypasses, the mech themostat will not see the heat of the fluid, and will only open after heat migrating through the iron gets to it, after warming up the fluid inside.
timberking B 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.

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Re: mustang problem
« Reply #10 on: April 03, 2019, 07:50:43 PM »
Pics of the cooling system. I'm going to get a new thermostat housing with a port in it for the sensor to be right there. Right now it's on a riser on the manifold.



 

 

 

 
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Offline doc henderson

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Re: mustang problem
« Reply #11 on: April 03, 2019, 08:22:10 PM »
can you turn on the aux. and hit the sensor with a heat gun, to see if things kick on?  intake or exhaust manifold?
timberking B 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.

Offline snowstorm

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Re: mustang problem
« Reply #12 on: April 04, 2019, 07:28:42 AM »
temp sensor needs to be in the t stat housing. seems odd there is such a small pipe from bottom rad hose to pump. also there attempt at a serpentine belt. there is little contact of belt to crank pulley and a turnbuckle ?? if it was mine the electric pump would go. put what it was meant to have  along with a t stat. and do something about the belt. that dose not look dependable and gives the impression that maybe other things are not quite rite. that fan may be big enough it can push or pull you want it to pull

Offline snowstorm

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Re: mustang problem
« Reply #13 on: April 04, 2019, 07:30:48 AM »
as nice a job as you did on the wiring, You should be able to isolate things and dx. the problem.  jumper or hot wire the pump and see if it makes noise and moves fluid.  jump the fan and see if it comes on and turns proper direction.   If they both work it has to be the elect. thermostatic switch.  make sure the sensor/thermistor is in a good spot.  
you can leave the mech. thermostat out or some will drill 1/8th inch holes to allow a little flow so the fluid and move and reflect the heat from the engine. if it (the pump)bypasses, the mech themostat will not see the heat of the fluid, and will only open after heat migrating through the iron gets to it, after warming up the fluid inside.
the holes are to help remove air from the system after its been apart

Online Jeff

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Re: mustang problem
« Reply #14 on: April 04, 2019, 08:03:46 AM »
The fan and pump both work. 
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Offline Old Greenhorn

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Re: mustang problem
« Reply #15 on: April 04, 2019, 08:25:38 AM »
I am not familiar with this electric setup. It seems if you have a temp sensor that will turn on the pump at a given temp, then you do not need a mechanical thermostat, is that correct? Having a thermostatic valve as well as a temp sensor/switch would be redundant, would it not?
 I am just trying to figure out the design intent of this system and as you say, the fan and pump are both working, but I am not sure what the status of the sensor/switch is. Maybe I should go back and read from the beginning.
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Offline Old Greenhorn

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Re: mustang problem
« Reply #16 on: April 04, 2019, 08:42:23 AM »
 I'm going to get a new thermostat housing with a port in it for the sensor to be right there. Right now it's on a riser on the manifold.

Hang on, I just re-read the thread twice and caught this. If the sensor is on a riser, it may not be seeing any water at all. It needs to be in the flow path. Maybe I read it wrong, but just raising the point for you to ponder.
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Re: mustang problem
« Reply #17 on: April 04, 2019, 12:48:47 PM »
That's what I thought, that's why I ordered the housing with a port in it.
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Offline low_48

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Re: mustang problem
« Reply #18 on: April 06, 2019, 11:19:34 PM »
I'd think about pulling the water pump. Are you sure it's even turning an impeller? The thermostat was taken out for some reason. Second thing would be an air lock in the heater. Crack the top hose and see if coolant comes out. 

Offline moosehunter

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Re: mustang problem
« Reply #19 on: April 07, 2019, 10:16:35 AM »
Jeff, I agree with the others that suggest you ditch the electric water pump. Unless the pony will only be a drag strip car that pump will just be a liability. imho. 

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