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Author Topic: The Greenhorn's initial sawing season 2019  (Read 18261 times)

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Online Old Greenhorn

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Re: The Greenhorn's initial sawing season 2019
« Reply #420 on: December 02, 2019, 06:27:49 PM »
I didn't have time today with all the snow, but I did want to clarify my earlier statement about ham radio just to set the record straight. Although it is true it can be an expensive hobby, it doesn't need to be so. I was in my 30's when I started and raising a family, buying a home and moving 100 miles to have a better place to raise our kids.....with a 30% pay cut as a bonus. We had no money to spare, so I went into the hobby pretty much building everything I had. The very few things I bought were used and I can only recall buying one thing brand new ( a modest HF rig). All those purchases were covered by side jobs, overtime, or sell/swap/trade up deals. Hams are generous folks when they like you and I got a lot of help and donations, because I wanted to learn, so I went to a lot of antenna work parties to help folks put up big towers and antennas. Those folks would sometimes give me their old stuff which I would repair and put to use. I bought my entire tower setup for just $350. because I helped the ham that owned it, take it down and also helped him with some other packing and preparation chores as he prepared to move to FL. He liked me I guess. 
 A lot of other folks did too. I would build my stuff and try things and they would teach me new stuff and often give me parts. I would operate contests at other large stations and they appreciated my time. I was never a top ten world class operator, but I was top twenty and they were glad to have me. I helped them too with the mechanical stuff I was better at. 
 So yeah, you can get into the hobby for cheap. I will bet you have already spent more cash on your CSM stuff than I spent in my first 3 years in ham radio. ;D I didn't want anyone to think I was disparaging the hobby/skill in any way. My daughter got her ham ticket, but never really used it much. My nephew got his and is having a blast, now I give him my old and not so old stuff.  As on the FF, I made a lot of friends around the world, there were 4 of us in a group on 12 meters, it was like meeting after work at a local pub, we talked most days of the week. One was in Alaska, one was in the UK, one was in New Zealand, and me. One new years eve we each shared our house parties as the time came around to us. The fella in Alaska even gave my daughter (4 at the time) a minute by minute update on what Santa was doing on Christmas eve and let her know when he took off to start his rounds (which turned out to be conveniently right at her bedtime). The next week he sent us a photo he took of a moose calf that was just born in the plot he had cleared out for his tower. So there was some benefit to my family too as I taught my children about the homes and lives of the people I had become friends with. 
 I maintain my ticket (I worked too dang hard for the Extra Class license under the old testing system) and when I get a little older, and a little more 'delicate' I will have a good thing to do in the winter months. The hobby has changed a LOT since I was active, I have a lot to learn, all over again.
 I just wanted to set the record straight. I loved my time in ham radio, it taught me a lot that I used in life, and my job later on. I look forward to the day I get back to it. Right now I am just too busy.

Now, back to the subject. I did nothing on the mill yesterday, but I have to say, if I had any doubt about moving the mill, the snowstorm today cleared that doubt away for good. I tried plowing the skid road down to the old mill site at about 6am and got 100' down the skid road and got stuck. When I got home this afternoon and did a re clearing of snow around the house and pulled the snow blower out to cut a path from the house to the shop, I still had some daylight. So I took the mule around the back of the shop and was able to plow a path right along the bed of the mill. I had placed a drying skid exactly far enough away fro the mill to allow clearance (it was an accident). If I had too, I could do just a little shoveling and clearing and put a log up on the mill tonight. ;D Just having this as a possibility makes me more pleased than you might guess. :) I actually think I will be skidding up a nice log this weekend to work on. Had the mill still been where it was I would be shut down for a minimum of 3 weeks and have a heck of a time getting a log cut and the lumber moved up with the residual snow that will linger down in the hallow. I am very pleased that this has come to pass. Very pleased. It's kind of a big deal for me. Work can now proceed. 8) 8) 8)
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 450, 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) I mill for fun and my mental health. NYLT Certified.

I ain't the woodcutter, but I can cut wood 'til the woodcutter gets here.

Offline ManjiSann

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Re: The Greenhorn's initial sawing season 2019
« Reply #421 on: December 03, 2019, 09:12:49 AM »
OG, I didn't take anything negatively about what you'd said regarding HAM. My comment also was not in any way on how you'd gone about it, in case that was how in came across. 

 I will bet you have already spent more cash on your CSM stuff than I spent in my first 3 years in ham radio. ;D 

You nailed it exactly! How quickly did I go from a little home owner saw to the wonderful Husky I am now enjoying? And then a mill attachment and I'm already trying to map out a 36" bar and mill, a trailer, possibly a robust stationary mill type thing, a solar kiln, a chicken coop ;) ;) Figure the same trajectory with HAM... or any other hobby, and I think you'll see my point. I try for moderation, really I do  :) :)  My comments were on my personality quirk of going full speed ahead on whatever interests me. I looked into the equipment for HAM and I tend to want the best, don't usually get it but I want it  ::)
It sounds like you had some really awesome experiences with HAM and I hope you're able to get back into it some day  :) :)
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Re: The Greenhorn's initial sawing season 2019
« Reply #422 on: December 03, 2019, 05:49:03 PM »
Well I was up and at it at 5:30 again this morning because we had another 6 inches over night and I needed to get the snow cleared. That put us up at well over a foot for the storm, but others just 15 or 20 miles from here got 2' so I am not complaining. But still it had to be cleared so I could get to work because I knew the other two M/E's would not be in on time if at all and the boss would also likely be a no-show again. So I got it done, pretty quick and dirty, but well enough that the wife could get in and out safely and easily.
 I got to work and was miserable. I have not slept well in 6 days from this cold and constant coughing and it is catching up. By noon most of my co-workers, and even my boss was in. I could not keep my eyes open and actually napped through lunch. By 2pm, I'd had it. I sent them all an email explaining my situation and left. I got home and took a 45 minute nap on the couch until the coughing fit came back. So I decided it was time for fresh air and I might as well finish the trim plowing and snow blowing. So I did that and we should be in good shape until the next storm. But then I thought about the remarks in my earlier post about being able to use the mill right after a decent snow. So I pulled around back and hit it with the plow, then did a little bit of shoveling to see how hard it would be to get the mill 'log ready'. It's a no-brainer. Good to go. Now my wood stack will need a lot more work, BUT that will come with time. I have not had any time to make snow covers for them yet. I might clean them up in the coming evenings, but for today I was shot. I had proven something to myself and that was good enough.
 It's hard to tell in this photo but I got the snow down to grade next to the mill and 30' beyond.


 

I was able to clear enough to give me room to run the mule past the head when I drop a log, and then some.



 


This shows the view from the other direction. I will have to come around the corner of the shop on the right and make the turn to drag the log up parallel to the mill bed.  It should be easier with frozen ground.



 

The lumber stacks could do with a bit more protection. This stack in the center I just milled Saturday, there is a bigger one just to the left of it you can't even make out.



 

 So I am sick and feeling poorly but I am happy that I made the right choice and I already feel like all that extra work has paid off. Tomorrow I may wind up taking an actual sick day and actually staying home sick instead of sneaking in chores. I feel like that is a waste, but I also feel pretty darn punky right now.
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 450, 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) I mill for fun and my mental health. NYLT Certified.

I ain't the woodcutter, but I can cut wood 'til the woodcutter gets here.

Offline richhiway

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Re: The Greenhorn's initial sawing season 2019
« Reply #423 on: December 03, 2019, 07:07:58 PM »
Better rest up a couple days. Feel Better.

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Re: The Greenhorn's initial sawing season 2019
« Reply #424 on: December 03, 2019, 07:10:39 PM »
Better rest up a couple days. Feel Better.

Rich
How much did you get down your way? Or is it UP your way? Your two locations straddle me and I am not sure where you are.
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 450, 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) I mill for fun and my mental health. NYLT Certified.

I ain't the woodcutter, but I can cut wood 'til the woodcutter gets here.

Offline Nebraska

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Re: The Greenhorn's initial sawing season 2019
« Reply #425 on: December 03, 2019, 11:25:05 PM »
Better weather heading your way, worked cattle in shirtsleeves this afternoon, got over 50. Take care of yourself and get some rest.

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Re: The Greenhorn's initial sawing season 2019
« Reply #426 on: December 04, 2019, 08:00:55 PM »
Better rest up a couple days. Feel Better.

Rich
How much did you get down your way? Or is it UP your way? Your two locations straddle me and I am not sure where you are.
I live in Monticello. My camp is up in North Hudson. We had a lot of sleet and about 10 inches. Lucky it wasn't a bad ice storm.
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Re: The Greenhorn's initial sawing season 2019
« Reply #427 on: December 04, 2019, 08:07:02 PM »
OG, looks like you're hard work payed off! 

It's hard to lay around and "do nothing" but resting to get better is something. Won't do any good to get hurt or stay sick longer. Find a good movie or some nice music and have @doc henderson prescribe you a sick day :D 

Get feeling better soon!

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Re: The Greenhorn's initial sawing season 2019
« Reply #428 on: December 05, 2019, 08:01:11 AM »
Well I got very little stuff, sawdust wise, to contribute today. I called in sick yesterday and really was. i did NOTHING all day because I had zero energy. I watched Netflix until I was sick of it and any household chores I could think of meant I would have to get out of the chair and that felt too much like work.  The 'number challenged' UPS guy delivered yet another package to our house that belonged next door. I took it over and while I was out I walked across the road and through the drifts to swap the card on my trail cam. I could see a lot of activity in the snow and 'somebody' had bedded down right underneath the camera which is strapped to a small Hemlock with nice low shade branches. Then I came back in and never went out again. I went through the clips and had a few usable ones. This one is a little notable:


I went to bed at 7:30 last night. Got up today thinking I would go to work, shaved, put on a clean shirt and all that but when it came time to go warm up the truck I just couldn't do it. Still no energy at all. SO I called in again, which I really did not want to do. This means havoc will prevail in my absence and I will have to do a lot of damage control when I return. Hopefully today I will recover a little more. I am going to take Barndon's advice and listen to some good music. I have a CD playing right now that is a new release from my friend Chris Loquette and is doing pretty well. It is very well crafted music and Chris's first solo release although he appears on many many ensemble albums with Dirty Kitchen and others. Chris is a monster on Guitar, Banjo, and Mando.

 Maybe tomorrow I will have something better to add here. Today I think I will try to work on project sketches and the associated BOM's, maybe try to clean the mess that is my desk, although that is real work. ;D
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 450, 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) I mill for fun and my mental health. NYLT Certified.

I ain't the woodcutter, but I can cut wood 'til the woodcutter gets here.

Offline thecfarm

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Re: The Greenhorn's initial sawing season 2019
« Reply #429 on: December 05, 2019, 08:41:10 AM »
Ayup, the camera has been found!!!
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Re: The Greenhorn's initial sawing season 2019
« Reply #430 on: December 05, 2019, 08:56:25 AM »
That seems to happen quite often. It's those dang infrared leds that attracts them in when they get close.
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 450, 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) I mill for fun and my mental health. NYLT Certified.

I ain't the woodcutter, but I can cut wood 'til the woodcutter gets here.

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Re: The Greenhorn's initial sawing season 2019
« Reply #431 on: December 05, 2019, 08:57:29 AM »
Oh no, you've been discovered! Time to scrub the site and disappear Jason Bourne style  ;D ;D

Huh, someone actually took my advice?? That's gotta be a first  :) :)  Lets see what else I can do with my advice... "You have the urge to pack your sawmill up and send it to a bald guy in Utah..."  ;D ;D

All joking aside, take it easy and get feeling better soon my friend. 

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Re: The Greenhorn's initial sawing season 2019
« Reply #432 on: December 06, 2019, 11:46:16 AM »
Home sick for the 3rd day in a row and I am miserable enough that I have not been able to do anything but read the FF, watch Netflix, and worry about how bad things are at work. And now.... it's flipping snowing again......
 So I am forcing myself to do something useful even if it is down at the desk. I have always wanted to get a better handle on board footage which I feel is necessary going forward. I have never allowed myself time to go through the numbers and wrap my brain around it with respect to estimating within reason how many board feet will be required for a specific design or BOM, and how to estimate how much, or whether or not you can get that quantity out of the available logs you have or estimate how many logs you will require to fill out a BOM.  I find all these very useful tools and something I should understand better. It also lets me figure pricing as compared to others in a more or less accurate manner.
 SO I searched the forum as usual and as usual there is a ton of information and threads. Almost as much as oil/gas mix, sharpening chains, blade lube, chickens, and grits.  ;D
Just picking two threads as examples that I found useful:

http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=45346.msg655790#msg655790
(This one I really liked because Jeff weighed in to set the record straight for folks who might find the thread in future searches. That person would be me, and now maybe you too.)

I also found this one which is a good discussion:
http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,18015.0.html

I also found a few good references in the wider internet regarding 'how to' use of the various measuring sticks. I shopped for some sticks (looking for international 1/4 scale) but they are a bit pricey for my limited usage (at this point). However I find that I can just chart my log sizes then come home and use the FF calculator in the tool box ( http://forestryforum.com/calcs/sawlogbf.htm ).

 My goal in this learning experiment is to scale the logs I cut my my loft project, then keep track of what I get out of them and compare to get a feel for the ups and downs. I have added up the exact BF of the wood required for the loft and I want to see how my scaling measures up (see what I did there) against the final output.
 I figure if I have to sit around, I may as well learn something while i am doing it.
 Now I have to find something else to do because I feel like I am not going to be too much better tomorrow. I am chomping to get out in the woods and make some measurements.
 Any suggestions for arm chair work?
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I ain't the woodcutter, but I can cut wood 'til the woodcutter gets here.

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Re: The Greenhorn's initial sawing season 2019
« Reply #433 on: December 06, 2019, 03:47:41 PM »
OK, hearing no suggestions and never being accused of being a patient guy, I bundled myself up (I just can't seem to get warm, even in my 74 degree den) and jumped in the Mule to go measure the next logs I am taking, which are already down but not bucked, so measuring was easy and accurate. I marked as I measured so I can track the results through the process. Then I came back in and ran the numbers and here is where it gets interesting (from an educational standpoint) as well as confusing. I used 3 different calculators to figure the board footage. Now all of those pretty much agreed on the Doyle standard, only vary by a bf or two. But on the international scale they varied widely. I don't want to start a debate on who(m) is right or wrong so I am not going to list the sources. One was the F/F calculator, another was a calculator on another online forum/website, and the 3rd was a chart by a bandsaw mill company most folks know. (no, it is not woodmizer). I am not sure which to believe and I am also not splitting hairs here. The total board footage across these 3 sources ranges from 225 to 310 BF for the same logs (30%?). Again, I am not trying to pit one against another or find the exact right answer, I know this is not an exact science. I wish I had a scaling stick so I could compare what I get from that too. If anyone is interested I will list here the numbers I got and hope the formatting and everything comes through so it makes sense. Maybe you have a way to calculate the numbers yourself and come up with something different. It's a fun exercise if nothing else. The columns should read as follows: Log#, SED (small end diameter), Len (Length), Doyle, Int1, Int2, and Int3 for the 3 different sources used.

Log#     SED      Len     Doyle     Int1     Int2     Int3
1          14"          12'      75          83      100      102
2          13"         8'        41          30       55        58
3          10"         8'        18          22        30       32
4          15"         12'      91          90        115     118
Totals                           225        225       300     310

I think it's interesting that there is an 85 BF difference between the high and the low numbers. If you were talking about dollars that could add up quick. But I am not thinking about dollars, just trying to learn how these numbers will relate to actual BF in production. My logs will have trim, but I did not include that in my calculations. The 12' logs will be bucked at 12'6" but the excess is waste, so I left it out. I think that was right, was it not? Anyway, that is a nit. I am more interested in which set of values turns out to be most accurate for me. I'd be interested to hear any thoughts on why the international scale results vary so much. obviously there are variances in the underlying calculations some where, but I am wondering why that is. There are a lot of guys here that know this stuff inside out, including our fearless leader. Anybody care to further my education?
  I am going to try to trick this through the milling cycle so I can see exactly what I do get from each of those 4 logs. I figure that will be where the truth will begin to reveal itself. I just wish I didn't feel so poorly and those logs were not in a swamp covered by a foot of snow. It's going to be a little work to get them out. ;D
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 450, 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) I mill for fun and my mental health. NYLT Certified.

I ain't the woodcutter, but I can cut wood 'til the woodcutter gets here.

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Re: The Greenhorn's initial sawing season 2019
« Reply #434 on: December 06, 2019, 04:42:28 PM »
Good understanding comes from doing exactly what you are doing.  Measuring logs, sawing them, then measuring the actual board feet produced.  

It is interesting to compare the actual board feet produced by the thin kerf bandsaw to the three scales - Doyle, Scribner and International.  The scales I believe were developed for circle sawmills and the wider kerf.  I know what my experience is.  It would be interesting to know others' experience in actual board feet compared to scaled board feet.  
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Re: The Greenhorn's initial sawing season 2019
« Reply #435 on: December 06, 2019, 04:45:54 PM »
Good understanding comes from doing exactly what you are doing.  Measuring logs, sawing them, then measuring the actual board feet produced.  

It is interesting to compare the actual board feet produced by the thin kerf bandsaw to the three scales - Doyle, Scribner and International.  The scales I believe were developed for circle sawmills and the wider kerf.  I know what my experience is.  It would be interesting to know others' experience in actual board feet compared to scaled board feet.  
Ted, what do you think of the disparity I found in the 3 international references I found?
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 450, 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) I mill for fun and my mental health. NYLT Certified.

I ain't the woodcutter, but I can cut wood 'til the woodcutter gets here.

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Re: The Greenhorn's initial sawing season 2019
« Reply #436 on: December 06, 2019, 05:06:00 PM »
I bought an international stick after reading because I thought the way it was set up it would be more fair if I were to buy a log from someone. I know that with the narrow kerf of our band mills the yield per log will be a larger by a percentage. I also thought at the time I would have to buy  some logs to saw but  so far I haven't.  If I need to though  I could pull up a regional lumber price report and at least say in western New York Red Oak stumpage is bringing x amount.  That way giving an informed bid.  Around here we have two markets Walnut and everything else, and  everything else  goes to the pallet mills mostly. Since I'm not going to sell lumber and I'm sawing for me mostly it probably  wasn't that important of a purchase but it killed a bunch of idle time reading about it when it was too cold to do much else. I havent  measured a done pile from a log yet to compare  how it yielded to the stick estimate, but if it's not dark when I get home I have a done stack  laying by the mill I can do  quickly from the last log.. 
This is probably  a better topic to  ponder than 35 hp  front wheel assist loader tractors while you are under the weather. Hope you are better soon.

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Re: The Greenhorn's initial sawing season 2019
« Reply #437 on: December 06, 2019, 05:18:13 PM »
@Nebraska can you do me a favor and look at your stick and tell me what it says for a 12' log with 14" SED? I'd like to see if the stick shows yet another difference. Also, is your stick International 1/4" or international 1/8". I have just found that they are both 'out there'. Not everyone specifys which one they are. I am guessing your stick is 1/4" which means a 1/4" kerf is figured in the math.
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I ain't the woodcutter, but I can cut wood 'til the woodcutter gets here.

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Re: The Greenhorn's initial sawing season 2019
« Reply #438 on: December 06, 2019, 05:27:17 PM »
Good understanding comes from doing exactly what you are doing.  Measuring logs, sawing them, then measuring the actual board feet produced.  

It is interesting to compare the actual board feet produced by the thin kerf bandsaw to the three scales - Doyle, Scribner and International.  The scales I believe were developed for circle sawmills and the wider kerf.  I know what my experience is.  It would be interesting to know others' experience in actual board feet compared to scaled board feet.  
Ted, what do you think of the disparity I found in the 3 international references I found?
What I found is the Doyle scale is most conservative - generally it scales a log to the least board feet.  The International scale generally scales to the greatest number of board feet.  In my sawing, lumber produced comes closer to the International scale.  

Others with more knowledge can elaborate on the origin of the scales and the scale that is more accurate for small or large logs. I recall a discussion on this very topic here on the forum.
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Re: The Greenhorn's initial sawing season 2019
« Reply #439 on: December 06, 2019, 05:32:35 PM »
I get that part, it became apparent pretty quickly as I studied it. However, what I am asking is how can I find 3 different references that claim to be using the international scale and they all have very different numbers for the same log! I have since tried a 4th reference ad gotten yet another value. Who does one trust given that they are all 'accurate guesses'?
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