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Author Topic: log arch build  (Read 3215 times)

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Offline Revival Sawmill

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log arch build
« on: May 17, 2019, 04:55:00 PM »
I've been felling trees larger than the tractor can safely skid, and I'd like to be able to transport logs, instead of moving the mill, so I decided to try building one of these log arch things.  I think I'll end up needing a flatbed with a DanG ginny crane/winch on it too.  

Here's the progress if you're interested, or just like looking at the pictures  smiley_book2_page  
(I can't claim any credit for the general design, as I 'borrowed' it from a guy who did the same from an older version of a commercial product ?Logrite? I think - not sure.)

Beginning of the layout


 



 

Welded the arch part of it



 

Thought I would be clever and straighten some 2x4x0.25" tube steel I had, so I could use it for a light-weight tongue.  Don't do this!  it didn't end well  :-[  No injuries though!  



 

Progress was interrupted for bit.  We got a torrential rainfall, and pretty good flooding considering this is on the side of a hill:



 

That pad is usually 6" up from the dirt.

Lost a big tree



 

Just missed the woodmizer!! (it's hiding under that gray tarp) 




Tree looked perfectly healthy before it went over - no cracks/conchs/etc. 
 

 

not a complete miss - the tips of the branches JUST tagged it.





And this - but I think the mill won that fight!

 



Arch with the spindle pads positioned:

 

 

Oops:



 

Laying out the tongue:






 

 


 

A gratuitous weld pic:


 

The tongue upright, with the hitch ring holder welded on.  I screwed that up a bit, and it's a little off-kilter.  I'll grind the top and bottom welds and hammer it straight later. 



 

Setting up to join the two parts





Success?  The tongue is about 1/32" off from one end to the other, but I should be able to account for that when I weld the spindles on.



 

Bracing, and started the mount for the dog-ears to hold the block for the winch-line



 

Where it stands now



 

I was thinking about a 'strong-back' sort of brace, 



 

but I noticed there is an alarming amount of flex where the tongue goes down to the hitch-  If I put my hand on the upper corner (to the far left in the picture) and wiggle, it moves a an inch or two in either direction.  I'm worried this will cause the welds on this end of the trailer to fail prematurely.


 

So now I'm thinking to do some sort of double-brace thing, with a down rod on either side to see if I can stiffen that part of it up a bit. I'll have to mock-up a log to make sure it doesn't end up with clearance issues.


 

Once I figure that out, I'll weld some chain hooks on it, strip and paint the top, flip it over and weld the spindles on, more paint, tires, etc. 
Let me know if you have a better way to take that wobble out of it, or if it doesn't matter!

Thanks,



Offline doc henderson

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Re: log arch build
« Reply #1 on: May 17, 2019, 05:17:59 PM »
WOW!  nice pics.  It seems if you added some heavy side braces like the top one back on the arch, you should be good.  seems hell for stout.  the tongue steers and supports the arch, but most of the weight of the log is centered over the wheels.  unless you pull along and something stops a wheel dead.  change out the small rods with heavy material and keep it high enough so it does not interfere with you log haul.  that is a long tongue and I do not think it has to be rigid. IMHO!   :)   triangle are the greatest!!!  if you need more rigidity, you can "box in the beam"  welding steel to the open parts of the I beam.
timberking B 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.

Offline Stuart Caruk

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Re: log arch build
« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2019, 05:52:16 PM »
Nice job! The fitup and welding are awesome!
Stuart Caruk
Wood-Mizer LX450 Diesel w/ debarker and home brewed extension, live log deck and outfeed rolls. Woodmizer twin blade edger, Barko 450 log loader, Clark 666 Grapple Skidder w/ 200' of mainline. Bobcats and forklifts.

Offline Chuck White

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Re: log arch build
« Reply #3 on: May 17, 2019, 06:30:08 PM »
Very nice welding job, and glad your mill came through unscathed!  8)
~Chuck~
Retired USAF (1989), Retired School Bus Driver (2012), and now a Mobile Sawyer
1995 Wood-Mizer LT40HDG2425 Kohler - Shingle & LapSider, Cooks Cat Claw Sharpener and single-tooth setter, 4-foot Logrite cant hook.
Basic mechanical skills are all that's required to maintain a Wood-Mizer

Offline ljohnsaw

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Re: log arch build
« Reply #4 on: May 17, 2019, 06:58:44 PM »
If you need more rigidity, you can "box in the beam" welding steel to the open parts of the I beam.

+1 on that.  Turn the I beam into a box and it will get real stiff in a hurry.  You might want to box the front of the back legs as well.  If a wheel hits a stump or rock, that leg could twist just like you're seeing in the main beam.  Just the front should be enough.
John Sawicky

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Offline kelLOGg

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Re: log arch build
« Reply #5 on: May 17, 2019, 07:18:03 PM »
Top notch construction! I won't show you mine. ;)
Where in NC are you?
Bob
Cook's MP-32, 16HP, 20' (modified w/ power feed, up/down, loader/turner)
DH kiln, CatClaw, setter, tandem trailer, log arches, tractor, thumb tacks

Online RAYAR

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Re: log arch build
« Reply #6 on: May 18, 2019, 03:17:11 AM »
Nice log arch build taking shape.
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Offline luap

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Re: log arch build
« Reply #7 on: May 18, 2019, 08:23:10 AM »
I see tall skinny lumber stacks are affected by wind. You welds look good. If you are doing all the cutting with a cut off wheel on that grinder, you are not lacking ambition. But I know we all have to work with what we have. I would consider cutting a 30 deg angle(estimated) in your horizontal beam and eliminate the vertical beam on the hitch. You can also fill in the web of the beam on each side with flat stock for additional stiffness but as said boxing in the beam is better. Is your hitch a ball or pin?

Offline Magicman

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Re: log arch build
« Reply #8 on: May 18, 2019, 08:28:06 AM »
Wow Sir, I would suggest that you build a "Golly Whopping" log arch to handle that downed Oak.  :o

Very nice work!  thumbs-up
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Offline Revival Sawmill

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Re: log arch build
« Reply #9 on: May 18, 2019, 12:45:27 PM »
Nice job! The fitup and welding are awesome!
Thank you!!  Hopefully I can wrap it up in good time and start using it!

Offline Revival Sawmill

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Re: log arch build
« Reply #10 on: May 18, 2019, 12:46:10 PM »
Very nice welding job, and glad your mill came through unscathed!  8)
Me too!!  
(I've got an eye out for white oak acorns for you this fall - hope it's better than last year!)

Offline Revival Sawmill

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Re: log arch build
« Reply #11 on: May 18, 2019, 12:47:10 PM »
Top notch construction! I won't show you mine. ;)
Where in NC are you?
Bob
Haha - I'm always looking for new ideas!  
I'm just outside Crossnore - it's about halfway between Boone and Asheville. 

Offline Revival Sawmill

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Re: log arch build
« Reply #12 on: May 18, 2019, 12:48:53 PM »
I see tall skinny lumber stacks are affected by wind. You welds look good. If you are doing all the cutting with a cut off wheel on that grinder, you are not lacking ambition. But I know we all have to work with what we have. I would consider cutting a 30 deg angle(estimated) in your horizontal beam and eliminate the vertical beam on the hitch. You can also fill in the web of the beam on each side with flat stock for additional stiffness but as said boxing in the beam is better. Is your hitch a ball or pin?
Thanks!  I used the horizontal bandsaw for the arch pieces, but all the angles on the tongue were too steep to clamp in that - so it was back to the grinder and zip disks.  It's a pintle hitch - I thought that might give me a bit more wiggle room for errors in angles and fitup 

Offline Revival Sawmill

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Re: log arch build
« Reply #13 on: May 18, 2019, 12:59:12 PM »
WOW!  nice pics.  It seems if you added some heavy side braces like the top one back on the arch, you should be good.  seems hell for stout.  the tongue steers and supports the arch, but most of the weight of the log is centered over the wheels.  unless you pull along and something stops a wheel dead.  change out the small rods with heavy material and keep it high enough so it does not interfere with you log haul.  that is a long tongue and I do not think it has to be rigid. IMHO!   :)   triangle are the greatest!!!  if you need more rigidity, you can "box in the beam"  welding steel to the open parts of the I beam.

If you need more rigidity, you can "box in the beam" welding steel to the open parts of the I beam.

+1 on that.  Turn the I beam into a box and it will get real stiff in a hurry.  You might want to box the front of the back legs as well.  If a wheel hits a stump or rock, that leg could twist just like you're seeing in the main beam.  Just the front should be enough.

I think I've got what  you guys are saying, and it might make a convenient place for the chain hooks too - as in these pictures?

For the tongue:




For the legs of the arch:




Thanks everyone for the kind words/advice/encouragement!

Offline WV Sawmiller

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Re: log arch build
« Reply #14 on: May 18, 2019, 01:32:38 PM »
RS,

   Looking real good at this point. What is your prime mover for it? I use my ATV on steep hillsides and I'd never get that monster up in the woods and it would probably be a real wild ride down the slope even without a log on the arch.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2009 4wd Dodge PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Sthil 440 & 441, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

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Offline Revival Sawmill

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Re: log arch build
« Reply #15 on: May 18, 2019, 01:48:51 PM »
RS,

   Looking real good at this point. What is your prime mover for it? I use my ATV on steep hillsides and I'd never get that monster up in the woods and it would probably be a real wild ride down the slope even without a log on the arch.

Around the house, Ill probably drag it behind that Massey Ferguson 265; over the road, Im hoping my pickup will handle it!!

Offline Chuck White

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Re: log arch build
« Reply #16 on: May 18, 2019, 01:58:05 PM »
Very nice welding job, and glad your mill came through unscathed!  8)
Me too!!  
(I've got an eye out for white oak acorns for you this fall - hope it's better than last year!)
Thanks, we just don't have very many White Oak trees in this area, so I've always wanted to get some started for future generations!  At least planting the acorns I could at least see them growing during the years I have left.
Thanks in advance!
~Chuck~
Retired USAF (1989), Retired School Bus Driver (2012), and now a Mobile Sawyer
1995 Wood-Mizer LT40HDG2425 Kohler - Shingle & LapSider, Cooks Cat Claw Sharpener and single-tooth setter, 4-foot Logrite cant hook.
Basic mechanical skills are all that's required to maintain a Wood-Mizer

Offline Greyman

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Re: log arch build
« Reply #17 on: May 18, 2019, 08:16:37 PM »
A box beam has about 400x the torsional stiffness as an I-beam (both 1/4" wall, 4"x4").  Adding tabs like you show will help a little bit, maybe 2x, but nowhere near as stiff as a full box beam.  Adding tabs will also create points with high stress when it does torque.  You would need plates on both sides for the full length to really stiffen it up.  

Offline btulloh

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Re: log arch build
« Reply #18 on: May 18, 2019, 08:20:18 PM »
Greyman, does it need to be boxed with 1/4 plate or can it be thinner?
HM126

Offline Greyman

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Re: log arch build
« Reply #19 on: May 18, 2019, 09:31:40 PM »
It can be thinner and you won't sacrifice much stiffness.  The big factor is making it a closed section.


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