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Author Topic: log arch build  (Read 3216 times)

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Offline Revival Sawmill

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log arch build
« on: May 17, 2019, 04:55:00 PM »
I've been felling trees larger than the tractor can safely skid, and I'd like to be able to transport logs, instead of moving the mill, so I decided to try building one of these log arch things.  I think I'll end up needing a flatbed with a DanG ginny crane/winch on it too.  

Here's the progress if you're interested, or just like looking at the pictures  smiley_book2_page  
(I can't claim any credit for the general design, as I 'borrowed' it from a guy who did the same from an older version of a commercial product ?Logrite? I think - not sure.)

Beginning of the layout


 



 

Welded the arch part of it



 

Thought I would be clever and straighten some 2x4x0.25" tube steel I had, so I could use it for a light-weight tongue.  Don't do this!  it didn't end well  :-[  No injuries though!  



 

Progress was interrupted for bit.  We got a torrential rainfall, and pretty good flooding considering this is on the side of a hill:



 

That pad is usually 6" up from the dirt.

Lost a big tree



 

Just missed the woodmizer!! (it's hiding under that gray tarp) 




Tree looked perfectly healthy before it went over - no cracks/conchs/etc. 
 

 

not a complete miss - the tips of the branches JUST tagged it.





And this - but I think the mill won that fight!

 



Arch with the spindle pads positioned:

 

 

Oops:



 

Laying out the tongue:






 

 


 

A gratuitous weld pic:


 

The tongue upright, with the hitch ring holder welded on.  I screwed that up a bit, and it's a little off-kilter.  I'll grind the top and bottom welds and hammer it straight later. 



 

Setting up to join the two parts





Success?  The tongue is about 1/32" off from one end to the other, but I should be able to account for that when I weld the spindles on.



 

Bracing, and started the mount for the dog-ears to hold the block for the winch-line



 

Where it stands now



 

I was thinking about a 'strong-back' sort of brace, 



 

but I noticed there is an alarming amount of flex where the tongue goes down to the hitch-  If I put my hand on the upper corner (to the far left in the picture) and wiggle, it moves a an inch or two in either direction.  I'm worried this will cause the welds on this end of the trailer to fail prematurely.


 

So now I'm thinking to do some sort of double-brace thing, with a down rod on either side to see if I can stiffen that part of it up a bit. I'll have to mock-up a log to make sure it doesn't end up with clearance issues.


 

Once I figure that out, I'll weld some chain hooks on it, strip and paint the top, flip it over and weld the spindles on, more paint, tires, etc. 
Let me know if you have a better way to take that wobble out of it, or if it doesn't matter!

Thanks,



Offline doc henderson

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Re: log arch build
« Reply #1 on: May 17, 2019, 05:17:59 PM »
WOW!  nice pics.  It seems if you added some heavy side braces like the top one back on the arch, you should be good.  seems hell for stout.  the tongue steers and supports the arch, but most of the weight of the log is centered over the wheels.  unless you pull along and something stops a wheel dead.  change out the small rods with heavy material and keep it high enough so it does not interfere with you log haul.  that is a long tongue and I do not think it has to be rigid. IMHO!   :)   triangle are the greatest!!!  if you need more rigidity, you can "box in the beam"  welding steel to the open parts of the I beam.
timberking B 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.

Offline Stuart Caruk

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Re: log arch build
« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2019, 05:52:16 PM »
Nice job! The fitup and welding are awesome!
Stuart Caruk
Wood-Mizer LX450 Diesel w/ debarker and home brewed extension, live log deck and outfeed rolls. Woodmizer twin blade edger, Barko 450 log loader, Clark 666 Grapple Skidder w/ 200' of mainline. Bobcats and forklifts.

Offline Chuck White

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Re: log arch build
« Reply #3 on: May 17, 2019, 06:30:08 PM »
Very nice welding job, and glad your mill came through unscathed!  8)
~Chuck~
Retired USAF (1989), Retired School Bus Driver (2012), and now a Mobile Sawyer
1995 Wood-Mizer LT40HDG2425 Kohler - Shingle & LapSider, Cooks Cat Claw Sharpener and single-tooth setter, 4-foot Logrite cant hook.
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Offline ljohnsaw

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Re: log arch build
« Reply #4 on: May 17, 2019, 06:58:44 PM »
If you need more rigidity, you can "box in the beam" welding steel to the open parts of the I beam.

+1 on that.  Turn the I beam into a box and it will get real stiff in a hurry.  You might want to box the front of the back legs as well.  If a wheel hits a stump or rock, that leg could twist just like you're seeing in the main beam.  Just the front should be enough.
John Sawicky

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Offline kelLOGg

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Re: log arch build
« Reply #5 on: May 17, 2019, 07:18:03 PM »
Top notch construction! I won't show you mine. ;)
Where in NC are you?
Bob
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Offline RAYAR

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Re: log arch build
« Reply #6 on: May 18, 2019, 03:17:11 AM »
Nice log arch build taking shape.
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Offline luap

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Re: log arch build
« Reply #7 on: May 18, 2019, 08:23:10 AM »
I see tall skinny lumber stacks are affected by wind. You welds look good. If you are doing all the cutting with a cut off wheel on that grinder, you are not lacking ambition. But I know we all have to work with what we have. I would consider cutting a 30 deg angle(estimated) in your horizontal beam and eliminate the vertical beam on the hitch. You can also fill in the web of the beam on each side with flat stock for additional stiffness but as said boxing in the beam is better. Is your hitch a ball or pin?

Offline Magicman

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Re: log arch build
« Reply #8 on: May 18, 2019, 08:28:06 AM »
Wow Sir, I would suggest that you build a "Golly Whopping" log arch to handle that downed Oak.  :o

Very nice work!  thumbs-up
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Offline Revival Sawmill

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Re: log arch build
« Reply #9 on: May 18, 2019, 12:45:27 PM »
Nice job! The fitup and welding are awesome!
Thank you!!  Hopefully I can wrap it up in good time and start using it!

Offline Revival Sawmill

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Re: log arch build
« Reply #10 on: May 18, 2019, 12:46:10 PM »
Very nice welding job, and glad your mill came through unscathed!  8)
Me too!!  
(I've got an eye out for white oak acorns for you this fall - hope it's better than last year!)

Offline Revival Sawmill

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Re: log arch build
« Reply #11 on: May 18, 2019, 12:47:10 PM »
Top notch construction! I won't show you mine. ;)
Where in NC are you?
Bob
Haha - I'm always looking for new ideas!  
I'm just outside Crossnore - it's about halfway between Boone and Asheville. 

Offline Revival Sawmill

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Re: log arch build
« Reply #12 on: May 18, 2019, 12:48:53 PM »
I see tall skinny lumber stacks are affected by wind. You welds look good. If you are doing all the cutting with a cut off wheel on that grinder, you are not lacking ambition. But I know we all have to work with what we have. I would consider cutting a 30 deg angle(estimated) in your horizontal beam and eliminate the vertical beam on the hitch. You can also fill in the web of the beam on each side with flat stock for additional stiffness but as said boxing in the beam is better. Is your hitch a ball or pin?
Thanks!  I used the horizontal bandsaw for the arch pieces, but all the angles on the tongue were too steep to clamp in that - so it was back to the grinder and zip disks.  It's a pintle hitch - I thought that might give me a bit more wiggle room for errors in angles and fitup 

Offline Revival Sawmill

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Re: log arch build
« Reply #13 on: May 18, 2019, 12:59:12 PM »
WOW!  nice pics.  It seems if you added some heavy side braces like the top one back on the arch, you should be good.  seems hell for stout.  the tongue steers and supports the arch, but most of the weight of the log is centered over the wheels.  unless you pull along and something stops a wheel dead.  change out the small rods with heavy material and keep it high enough so it does not interfere with you log haul.  that is a long tongue and I do not think it has to be rigid. IMHO!   :)   triangle are the greatest!!!  if you need more rigidity, you can "box in the beam"  welding steel to the open parts of the I beam.

If you need more rigidity, you can "box in the beam" welding steel to the open parts of the I beam.

+1 on that.  Turn the I beam into a box and it will get real stiff in a hurry.  You might want to box the front of the back legs as well.  If a wheel hits a stump or rock, that leg could twist just like you're seeing in the main beam.  Just the front should be enough.

I think I've got what  you guys are saying, and it might make a convenient place for the chain hooks too - as in these pictures?

For the tongue:




For the legs of the arch:




Thanks everyone for the kind words/advice/encouragement!

Offline WV Sawmiller

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Re: log arch build
« Reply #14 on: May 18, 2019, 01:32:38 PM »
RS,

   Looking real good at this point. What is your prime mover for it? I use my ATV on steep hillsides and I'd never get that monster up in the woods and it would probably be a real wild ride down the slope even without a log on the arch.
Howard Green
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Offline Revival Sawmill

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Re: log arch build
« Reply #15 on: May 18, 2019, 01:48:51 PM »
RS,

   Looking real good at this point. What is your prime mover for it? I use my ATV on steep hillsides and I'd never get that monster up in the woods and it would probably be a real wild ride down the slope even without a log on the arch.

Around the house, Ill probably drag it behind that Massey Ferguson 265; over the road, Im hoping my pickup will handle it!!

Offline Chuck White

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Re: log arch build
« Reply #16 on: May 18, 2019, 01:58:05 PM »
Very nice welding job, and glad your mill came through unscathed!  8)
Me too!!  
(I've got an eye out for white oak acorns for you this fall - hope it's better than last year!)
Thanks, we just don't have very many White Oak trees in this area, so I've always wanted to get some started for future generations!  At least planting the acorns I could at least see them growing during the years I have left.
Thanks in advance!
~Chuck~
Retired USAF (1989), Retired School Bus Driver (2012), and now a Mobile Sawyer
1995 Wood-Mizer LT40HDG2425 Kohler - Shingle & LapSider, Cooks Cat Claw Sharpener and single-tooth setter, 4-foot Logrite cant hook.
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Offline Greyman

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Re: log arch build
« Reply #17 on: May 18, 2019, 08:16:37 PM »
A box beam has about 400x the torsional stiffness as an I-beam (both 1/4" wall, 4"x4").  Adding tabs like you show will help a little bit, maybe 2x, but nowhere near as stiff as a full box beam.  Adding tabs will also create points with high stress when it does torque.  You would need plates on both sides for the full length to really stiffen it up.  

Offline btulloh

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Re: log arch build
« Reply #18 on: May 18, 2019, 08:20:18 PM »
Greyman, does it need to be boxed with 1/4 plate or can it be thinner?
HM126

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Re: log arch build
« Reply #19 on: May 18, 2019, 09:31:40 PM »
It can be thinner and you won't sacrifice much stiffness.  The big factor is making it a closed section.

Offline Crusarius

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Re: log arch build
« Reply #20 on: May 20, 2019, 04:36:04 PM »
pretty nice build. Wow. did you have any bigger steel?

You will need to full box the tongue to get rid of the twisting. you can stitch weld it 1" every 6" it does not need to be full welded. and 1/8" plate will be more than enough.

Offline OffGrid973

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Re: log arch build
« Reply #21 on: May 20, 2019, 08:07:01 PM »
Great build...did we order the final color yet, always a good topic of discussion :)
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Offline Revival Sawmill

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Re: log arch build
« Reply #22 on: May 20, 2019, 08:31:16 PM »
Im getting a price on some 4 bar stock, trying to figure out the best way to do it without going (further) overboard!  I have a thing about tubular steel- seems to always have major rust problems around here, even with weep holes/etc.  Any thoughts on some sort of round stock welded in an X|X|X pattern down either side of the tongue? 

I was planning something bright- safety yellow or fire engine red.  My xyl suggested letting some hippies have a go at it with a few cans of spraypaint- might be interesting, and Im sure it would be highly visible!

Offline ljohnsaw

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Re: log arch build
« Reply #23 on: May 20, 2019, 09:42:08 PM »
Any thoughts on some sort of round stock welded in an X|X|X pattern down either side of the tongue?

Hmm, that would be interesting and would work.  Just some 3/8" rod and do a zig-zag down the side.  If you were doing on a 45, I don't think you'd need to make X's.  MY issue with that is trying to clean it up so you can rust-proof it with paint.
John Sawicky

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SkyTrak 9038, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/32" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

Offline Revival Sawmill

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Re: log arch build
« Reply #24 on: May 21, 2019, 03:23:03 AM »
Ospho and spray is the plan for the rest of it; if I can get good coverage on the back of the round rods, it might be OK?

Offline Crusarius

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Re: log arch build
« Reply #25 on: May 21, 2019, 07:02:47 AM »
your problem with the I beam is it offers no or very little torsional rigidity. you have a single vertical that is supporting 2 horizontals. the x's may stiffen it a little but not enough to make doing it worthwhile. and if it does stiffen it that little bit over time I guarantee you will get cracks from the heat affected zones on your x bracing across your tongue. 

There are only 2 ways to fix this that I can think of. Replace it with that bent box that you tried to straighten or full box it. If you are going to full box it, paint the I first. Then weld the plating on the outside and paint again. It will minimize rust. or box it in and seal it.

Since you will be lifting the logs up between the wheels the load will be centered there. The super stiff tongue may not even be necessary.

Whats the width inside the wheels? and length from inside tongue to wheels?

Offline doc henderson

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Re: log arch build
« Reply #26 on: May 21, 2019, 11:56:58 AM »
I assume Cru is wanting to calculate you max. poss. load.  if you get it welded up, you could do some careful test runs to see how it works.  add more steel as is needed.  If this is going into sloped rocky back wood applications, it may require the full box beam tongue treatment.  once you bend an I beam, it will never be the same.  quite impressive.
timberking B 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.

Offline Revival Sawmill

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Re: log arch build
« Reply #27 on: May 21, 2019, 12:14:45 PM »
Im out of town today, but when I get back to the computer, I can put some sketches up. From memory, the inside of the arch is right around 30-31 (pretty sure I set it for the tires to be 48 apart, and to be able to haul the biggest log I want on the LT35),  the tongue is 119, the down section another 4, and the load will hang an inch or two off the back of the arch, mostly, so another 6 there?
Thanks again for all the help with this!

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Re: log arch build
« Reply #28 on: May 21, 2019, 12:34:11 PM »
your definitely more than strong enough for the load you could possibly have. Not sure if I would worry about boxing the tongue. the only real reason I could think of is if the log is hanging from that part and swinging back and forth. The I beam was designed for a straight vertical load on it so side loading would not be ideal.

I probably would still box the tongue. but no need top use anymore than 1/8"

Offline Revival Sawmill

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Re: log arch build
« Reply #29 on: May 22, 2019, 09:09:45 AM »
your definitely more than strong enough for the load you could possibly have. Not sure if I would worry about boxing the tongue. the only real reason I could think of is if the log is hanging from that part and swinging back and forth. The I beam was designed for a straight vertical load on it so side loading would not be ideal.

I probably would still box the tongue. but no need top use anymore than 1/8"
Thanks!  I'm less concerned about the tongue as I am the welds at the top of the 'down' portion of it right at the front, by the hitch.  In my mind, as I'm going down the road with a log, whenever I go around a curve or turn a corner, there will be some inertia from the front half of the log (chained to the horizontal portion of the tongue) pushing to the side; currently, I think this will cause the beam to twist a bit as the weight of the log tries to overshoot the direction I'm pulling the vertical/hitch part...? That's bound to fail eventually. 
I'm leaning towards boxing the tongue at this point - waiting for some prices from the steel guy, and trying to carve out some time to get back to this! 
I'll try to get some sketches of the arch up in a couple of minutes, and see if that makes any difference...  ;)

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Re: log arch build
« Reply #30 on: May 22, 2019, 09:34:45 AM »
I have seen a few with a downward V to trap the front part of the log, or at least if it was chained to the tongue tightly would help.  I am not as worried with the simple inertia of the log that should move with the tongue, but if you developed a motion, like a resonance oscillation that could amplify, with movement and then abrupt forces when it swings and then hits the end of  a chain.  so I would develop a way to clamp the front of the log well.  also in a post I thought you said something about only going 6 inches past the arch.  but I think you want the log nearly centered at the arch with maybe a little forward for tongue wt.   all in all looking very good.  Without an engineering dept. and prototypes it is hard to fab up just enough, without going overboard.  As well, asking all of us tends to push in the overboard direction as well  :).  thanks for letting us participation in your build! 8).  so if the tongue is 10 feet, you could carry a 20 foot log.  I bet you could do a triangle inside the area of the log at the front of the tongue.  If not it can be outside the area of the log, but may look more clunky.  Regards!
addendum: went back and looked, you have it well triangulated at the front! looks great
timberking B 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.

Offline Revival Sawmill

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Re: log arch build
« Reply #31 on: May 22, 2019, 09:53:15 AM »
Ok - here's the initial sketches from librecad - It changed a bit in construction (about 1/2" wider arch, the upper diagonal brace is longer/lower angle, etc) but this is basically it.  
Again, I can't claim any credit for the design, so don't take this as original/use it commercially/get me in trouble!  :o



 


 


 
Thanks,

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Re: log arch build
« Reply #32 on: May 22, 2019, 09:57:33 AM »
I have seen a few with a downward V to trap the front part of the log, or at least if it was chained to the tongue tightly would help.  I am not as worried with the simple inertia of the log that should move with the tongue, but if you developed a motion, like a resonance oscillation that could amplify, with movement and then abrupt forces when it swings and then hits the end of  a chain.  so I would develop a way to clamp the front of the log well.  also in a post I thought you said something about only going 6 inches past the arch.  but I think you want the log nearly centered at the arch with maybe a little forward for tongue wt.   all in all looking very good.  Without an engineering dept. and prototypes it is hard to fab up just enough, without going overboard.  As well, asking all of us tends to push in the overboard direction as well  :).  thanks for letting us participation in your build! 8).  so if the tongue is 10 feet, you could carry a 20 foot log.  I bet you could do a triangle inside the area of the log at the front of the tongue.  If not it can be outside the area of the log, but may look more clunky.  Regards!
addendum: went back and looked, you have it well triangulated at the front! looks great
Thanks!  
I think I'll only be able to get about 16' under it, since the front bracing eats up some of that capacity - The couple of inches behind the arch should be the hoist point, if I've gotten this right, so a little less than half the log will stick out the back.  I'm planning to chain the front of the log to the tongue (a foot or two back from the front end of the log), but had thought to just hook it on there directly; do you think I need some sort of jaws/triangular recess/studs sticking down on either side to help trap it?
Thanks again,

Offline doc henderson

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Re: log arch build
« Reply #33 on: May 22, 2019, 10:26:07 AM »
I think as long as you can stop it from swinging and swaying you are fine.  The only other concern is if the front of the log is chained up, and that makes it higher than the center, then the back may drag the ground.  It could always be added later if that is a problem.  It could be something that slides forward and back on the square tongue to accommodate longer or shorter logs.  not all logs are strait so may help with that.  again, I would get it up and going and you then have a working prototype.  If you do not have spindles/hubs yet, could consider electric brakes with and actuator if you work on inclines ect.
timberking B 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.

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Re: log arch build
« Reply #34 on: May 22, 2019, 10:31:43 AM »
any type of V notch is going to hold the front of the log from swaying and keep it straight. I would think about adding that. You will not be sorry.

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Re: log arch build
« Reply #35 on: May 22, 2019, 11:35:14 AM »
Then I'll rig up some way to snub the front of the log side to side!  Already have spindles, no electric brakes; hopefully the tractor (and someday the truck) is heavy enough to hold it!  They're the heaviest-duty ones I could find that didn't put me into an ag tire, from etrailer's website.  Showed up with the bearings in the same box with the hubs, all smashed up. 







 
 
 They were speedy with a replacement, so I'm pretty happy with that end of things so far.  We'll see how the spindles/bearings/hubs/tires work out once they're on there.
The plan now is to wrap the bearing surfaces of the spindles in some scrap canvas, tack-weld them into a piece of stainless angle a buddy loaned me at the correct spacing, flip the arch over, position the tips of the spindles equidistant from the hitch, tack them onto the bottoms of the 'foot' plates, grind the angle off, and weld a couple of pieces of 2"x1/2" bar on either side of each spindle to box them in.  If anyone knows a better way to get them aligned/straight/attached, I'm all ears!
Thanks,


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Re: log arch build
« Reply #36 on: May 22, 2019, 11:42:41 AM »
If anyone knows a better way to get them aligned/straight/attached, I'm all ears!
 
Are you planning on going down the highway?  Going fast?  In all reality, its not going to matter much on the alignment.  Sure, its nice to be perfect but if you are hauling through the woods on muddy, loose dirt or gravel, the tracking is not going to matter all that much.  Your excellent idea with the angle iron will result in alignment that will be 200% better than what is needed for this application! ;)

If you want to forgo the tacking of the spindles to angle iron, just clamp the angle to your pads and clamp the spindles to the angle and pads.  Then tack the spindles in place.
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/32" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

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Re: log arch build
« Reply #37 on: May 22, 2019, 03:46:34 PM »
If anyone knows a better way to get them aligned/straight/attached, I'm all ears!

Are you planning on going down the highway?  Going fast?  In all reality, its not going to matter much on the alignment.  Sure, its nice to be perfect but if you are hauling through the woods on muddy, loose dirt or gravel, the tracking is not going to matter all that much.  Your excellent idea with the angle iron will result in alignment that will be 200% better than what is needed for this application! ;)

If you want to forgo the tacking of the spindles to angle iron, just clamp the angle to your pads and clamp the spindles to the angle and pads.  Then tack the spindles in place.
Glad to hear my plan should work! 
I'm going to register this with NCDOT/DMV as a home-built trailer, so I'll be able to drive down the road with it, but I hope to never get it on a highway, and if I do so, it'll be SLOW... 

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Re: log arch build
« Reply #38 on: May 22, 2019, 04:20:15 PM »
Here's a video of me cleaning up the tree that *almost* got the woodmizer, if you're bored. 

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Re: log arch build
« Reply #39 on: May 23, 2019, 03:00:31 PM »
Steel to box the beam is on order.  My buddy at the steel place mentioned welding gussets into either side of the ibeam as a way to stiffen without ending up with enclosed spaces; anyone have any experience with this?  

I'm envisioning something like this:



 

Thanks,

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Re: log arch build
« Reply #40 on: May 23, 2019, 03:05:27 PM »
Will help but will still twist and with those plates you will get cracking along the welds.

Plus that looks like an awful lot of places for crap to collect and cause rust.

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Re: log arch build
« Reply #41 on: May 23, 2019, 03:21:25 PM »
I did this at key points on my log spliter.  8 x 8x 1/2 inch H beam.  back beside the wedge ect.  Mine are symmetrical.  your tongue is long enough that there can be huge forces.  no prob. as long as it is free rolling and the log is near balanced.  i.e. not forward and putting a lot of wt. on the tongue.  the problem with that (your pic) potentially is it locates the damage between the braces.  you could put triangles along the sides as well either solid with points down or rod like a radio tower.  solid along the edge with be the easiest and strongest in my opinion.  in a sudden situation under load, the physics involved will find the weakest link in your system.  so even if you are on flat ground, but rolling through the trees and catch a tire on a standing tree the torques the arch and tongue, this is what you are trying to prevent.
timberking B 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.

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Re: log arch build
« Reply #42 on: May 27, 2019, 03:02:18 PM »
Boxed in those sections of ibeam - much stiffer!  Used 3/16x4 bar - more difficult to weld than I was expecting, but it's on there, and not going anywhere.  Painted the back and inside of beam before I welded them on, and left the ends open, so hopefully that cuts down on the rot some. 




 


 

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Re: log arch build
« Reply #43 on: May 27, 2019, 03:35:24 PM »
Got going on the spindles - tried clamping to start with:



 

Wrapped the bearing surfaces to keep weld spatter and paint off:



 

There was daylight between the spindles and pads, so clamping/and the previous post about clamping the angle iron to the pads and welding that way to avoid tacking the spindles to the angle wouldn't work.



 

Spindles tacked to the angle, triangulated to the tongue, and angle tacked to the pads:



 

Let that cool, and tacked the spindles directly to the pads:



 

zipped the tacks, knocked the angle iron off, put many more tacks between both sides of the spindles and the pads, and ran a bead (let it cool between each step): 



 

Boxed in the spindles to give a bit more strength:



 

Got them both boxed, turned the thing sideways with the tractor to fix that hitch mount (so the mig gun would reach that end), and sure as heck, the power went out.  I went ahead and hosed what I could with Ospho, and sprayed the spindle cylinders / boxing/ pads with primer.  I'll paint what I can reach, fix that hitch mount, paint that, put the tires on, flip it upright, add some chain hooks, paint the top, and start using it! 8)



 

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Re: log arch build
« Reply #44 on: May 27, 2019, 03:45:16 PM »
There was daylight between the spindles and pads, so clamping/and the previous post about clamping the angle iron to the pads and welding that way to avoid tacking the spindles to the angle wouldn't work.
 

Well, you got-r-dun so that's the important part!  My thought was to clamp the angle so a flat side was against the pads and the other flat against the spindle.  Then clamp the spindle tight to the pad.  But, what you did worked and I like the additional boxing of the spindles!
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/32" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

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Re: log arch build
« Reply #45 on: May 27, 2019, 04:03:39 PM »
they make a rust converter, inhibitor, so maybe after welding you could flood/atomize  the back sides of your boxing if you are worried.  If not it might rust out in 50 years lol
timberking B 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.

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Re: log arch build
« Reply #46 on: May 27, 2019, 09:43:27 PM »
Looks good. Now can you move it into position by hand? Or is it to heavy to move by hand?

I finally used a tow dolly I scored a long time ago to go retrieve a log tonight. Worked pretty good.

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Re: log arch build
« Reply #47 on: May 29, 2019, 03:25:58 PM »
Looks good. Now can you move it into position by hand? Or is it to heavy to move by hand?

I finally used a tow dolly I scored a long time ago to go retrieve a log tonight. Worked pretty good.
Way too heavy to move around by hand!  I can lift the tongue, but have no desire to try moving it.  I'm figuring the steel weighs right around 600#.  I'll hook it to the tractor in the next couple of days and give it a test-run

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Re: log arch build
« Reply #48 on: May 29, 2019, 03:46:26 PM »
I'm sure everyone has seen enough of this thing, but I'll keep posting updates until I get it done.

fixed the hitch attachment



 

Got some paint on the bottom of everything, using the little air-compressor and an HVLP gun.  That turned a 30 minute job into a three hour struggle!  I'm going to have to brush paint the rest of it, or rig up a way to get more air to it.



 




 




 




 

Greased the bearings and got the hubs and tires mounted. 



 




 



 
(don't worry - I put the little caps over these)




 

The backs of the bearings had these odd grease-retainer things (below) they can't be on there correctly- not completely inside the hub recess, but not riding on the back of the hub either.  They kept squishing out of the hubs while I turned the tires.  It seems like they would melt with the friction of the hub rotating around them at any kind of speed?



 

Managed to flip it over with the tractor this morning, no injuries or damage! 8)




 

I'll have to do a bit more welding here and there, and finish the paint, then it's time to try using it!

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Re: log arch build
« Reply #49 on: May 29, 2019, 05:07:20 PM »
What size tires?

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Re: log arch build
« Reply #50 on: May 29, 2019, 05:14:02 PM »
The hub assembly should have the inner bearing placed in the hub then, the seal pressed in the recess with the lip facing out. Then the hub assembly slid on the shaft, outer bearing installed, washer, then castle nut. The seals are typically sized to be a press fit in the hub.

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Re: log arch build
« Reply #51 on: May 30, 2019, 11:12:22 AM »

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Re: log arch build
« Reply #52 on: May 30, 2019, 11:14:26 AM »
The hub assembly should have the inner bearing placed in the hub then, the seal pressed in the recess with the lip facing out. Then the hub assembly slid on the shaft, outer bearing installed, washer, then castle nut. The seals are typically sized to be a press fit in the hub.
huh. That would have been easier!  These seals are definitely not a press fit in the hub.  It took a bit of work to get them slid onto the spindles, and they'd be loose in the hub.  There's also a pair of metal spring things running around the circumference of the seals on the inside of the lip - I'm guessing those need to be towards the grease, and not towards the dust/water/abuse?
Thanks,

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Re: log arch build
« Reply #53 on: May 30, 2019, 11:40:04 AM »
Put them in tight and let them self clearance.

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Re: log arch build
« Reply #54 on: May 30, 2019, 06:37:08 PM »
It is surprising that the seal is loose. Yes The spring that encircles the inner lip goes to the grease side. For maximum life of the bearings, it would be worth the effort to get the correct seals. Take the hub  to an auto parts and they should be able to order the correct seal. They will need the od of the recess of the hub and the diameter of the spindle where the seal rides. Bring your existing seal and they may be able to measure the od and see where the discrepancy is.

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Re: log arch build
« Reply #55 on: May 31, 2019, 07:13:32 AM »
I wonder if that is an actual seal? or is it a splash guard? 

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Re: log arch build
« Reply #56 on: June 03, 2019, 10:29:32 AM »
Made a little more progress this weekend:

Started the bit at the top for the snatch block to hang from:



 

Aligned the holes - I may have to bore them out a bit, as it was a tight fit for a 1" pin.



 

side bracing



 



 

Mounted a pair of chain hooks on the back



 

decided to put a lift-eye/tie-down loop on there just-in-case



 

Got tired of fighting the rust and ospho battle, so I went ahead and sprayed the whole thing. 



 

I need to figure out something to catch the top of the logs and prevent side-to-side sway/wobble under the tongue, but I'll just grind the paint off those spots when I'm ready.  Thinking about two little 1-2" spikes sticking down and out about 4' forward of the arch?  I'm planning to give it a test-run here on the farm to get a handle on of what's needed. 





Thanks,

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Re: log arch build
« Reply #57 on: June 03, 2019, 10:40:21 AM »
The A inside the frame is supposed to lock the log from flopping back and forth. pick the log up till it nests in it and off you go. a secondary safety chain under the log is not a bad ideas. Especially if you tow it down the road.

Edit: oops missed under the tongue thing. Just need a upside down V on the tong to suck logs up into.

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Re: log arch build
« Reply #58 on: June 03, 2019, 10:48:51 AM »
a brace that could be moved forward and back if needed for shorter/longer logs would work.  could have a U shape to fit the tongue with a bolt through the top, that can loosen to move it forward and back, with the V under it to hold the log.  is the rebar a temp brace?
timberking B 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.

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Re: log arch build
« Reply #59 on: June 03, 2019, 11:10:28 AM »
a brace that could be moved forward and back if needed for shorter/longer logs would work.  could have a U shape to fit the tongue with a bolt through the top, that can loosen to move it forward and back, with the V under it to hold the log.  is the rebar a temp brace?
I like the movable brace idea - If I can make one sturdy enough!
No - the rebar is on there to stay.  Probably not needed, but it's out of the way, and maybe helps with side-to-side stresses.

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Re: log arch build
« Reply #60 on: June 09, 2019, 08:31:08 PM »
looks solid, maybe a tad heavy in the woods.
made this a couple years ago
 

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Re: log arch build
« Reply #61 on: June 10, 2019, 02:08:37 PM »
looks solid, maybe a tad heavy in the woods.
made this a couple years ago

Thanks!  Definitely heavy; I don't think I'll be wiggling it into any tight places!  What you made looks far more reasonable!  How big of a log can you get with it?
Thanks,

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Re: log arch build
« Reply #62 on: June 10, 2019, 08:22:59 PM »
i think its 32 inch between wheels, i carried a 27 inch red oak, i cut most of my trees selectivly so i drag that thing in were i dropped the tree, wrestle it in position then hook 100 ft cable and pull the whole mess out with my tractor. 

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Re: log arch build
« Reply #63 on: June 11, 2019, 07:29:57 AM »
looks solid, maybe a tad heavy in the woods.
made this a couple years ago(Image hidden from quote, click to view.)



DanG, looks like mine. I even painted mine red since the pic was taken.








 
(Image hidden from quote, click to view.)
 






Cook's MP-32, 16HP, 20' (modified w/ power feed, up/down, loader/turner)
DH kiln, CatClaw, setter, tandem trailer, log arches, tractor, thumb tacks


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