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Author Topic: Roundup Usage Questions  (Read 1671 times)

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Offline bigtrees

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Roundup Usage Questions
« on: May 28, 2019, 09:38:23 PM »
Starting to learn my way around using herbicides. Got the full gamuet of PPE, so no health concerns there.

Went to the backyard and found some weeds (crabgrass) mixed in with desireable plants. Mixed up a solution of 1 oz 51% glysophate to 1/2 gallon water, and painted some roundup on the weed plants about 3-4 days ago. The plants look as healthy as ever? Next I increased the concentration by adding another oz of Roundup to the 1/2 gallon of water, and painted on more weeds. That was 2 days ago. Still not change.


Information I read online said that Roundup will start to make weeds wilt in 6 hours. 

Wondering if I just need to be more patient to see results, or if I did anything else wrong? I didn't think it was that complex to use.

Offline Larry

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Re: Roundup Usage Questions
« Reply #1 on: May 28, 2019, 09:59:45 PM »
I mix at 2.5 ounces/gallon which I think is a little on the strong side.  I usually don't see any effect on the weeds for a week, sometimes 10 days.  They don't really wilt but start to yellow or loose color.

The length of time before the weeds die is quite dependent on growing conditions and the air temperature.  I get best results when the temperature is 60 degrees or higher for 24 hours after applying it.

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Offline Southside

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Re: Roundup Usage Questions
« Reply #2 on: May 28, 2019, 10:28:25 PM »
Congratulations, you have discovered Roundup resistant crab grass. Not really a surprise given the widespread use of Roundup. Palmer pigweed, mares tail, and a host of other "weeds" are no longer controlled by Monsanto. The genie is out of the bottle. 
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Offline Woodpecker52

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Re: Roundup Usage Questions
« Reply #3 on: May 28, 2019, 10:59:18 PM »
Need to treat water usually with ammonia sulfate or vinegar  when using roundup.  If not it will react with tap water and be less effective.  Say so on directions that no one ever reads.
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Offline YellowHammer

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Re: Roundup Usage Questions
« Reply #4 on: May 29, 2019, 05:39:39 AM »
I use it for my Roundup Ready crops, (I have a Monsanto Applicator’s Registration) and for basic application use 1 qt per acre at 15 gallons of water per acre) watever that comes out per gallon.  That usually takes two weeks for a solid kill, wilting within a week.  Basically, mix as per the instructions and if your are more concentrated than that, it will work.

It kills by essentially causing overgrowth of the plant structures, and requires the plants to be actively growing to be most effective.  It is pretty mean but only has an activity rate of about 24 hours, when it becomes inactive and bonds with the soil, that’s why it’s not on the restricted herbicide use list, little residual activity.  It’s a contact spray.

However, if you read the recents reports, there is some potential danger from it, so spray downwind and take a shower afterward which is a good idea handling any herbicide or pesticide. 

There are some resistant species it won’t touch, as mentioned, Morning Glory being one of them, which is genetically grafted to some Roundup Ready crops.


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Online Ed_K

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Re: Roundup Usage Questions
« Reply #5 on: May 29, 2019, 08:41:35 AM »


However, if you read the recents reports, there is some potential danger from it, so spray downwind and take a shower afterward which is a good idea handling any herbicide or pesticide.

 X2 I can't prove it but it could be why I have Multiple Meyloma blood cell cancer. So be extra careful using any kind of glyphosate.
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Offline RAYAR

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Re: Roundup Usage Questions
« Reply #6 on: May 30, 2019, 01:43:23 AM »
Monsanto, recently bought out by Bayer, has known for decades and kept from public knowledge that their Glyphosate causes cancer. They always provided their own "concocted" scientific research to hide this. Monsanto also has former employees in charge of the EPA. Now take a moment to think about that. This is just a small bit of Monsanto's corrupt dealings in what they try to push onto the public's (sheeple's) knowledge of their products.
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Offline pine

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Re: Roundup Usage Questions
« Reply #7 on: May 30, 2019, 04:05:01 AM »
Several errors in some of the above posts. 

Glyphosate is a Group 9 herbicide meaning it is a EPSA synthase inhibitor. 
Basically glyphosate stops a specific enzyme pathway, the shikimic acid pathway.

It is NOT a contact herbicide.  It is a translocated herbicide.
Herbicides that are absorbed but not translocated are called contact herbicides, while herbicides that translocate to shoot or root meristems are called systemic herbicides.

There are several allowed concentrations for application to different species. However using a concentration that is higher than the label allows is a violation of both federal and state laws.  In my state it is up to $7500 per violation/incident.  The concept of "if a little is good more is better" is not only a fallacy in herbicide efficacy it is a violation of the law.  Unfortunately many folks think that way.  Not only is it bad for the environment and it is bad for what they are trying to do and it can have long term effects.

Roundup bought at the store in quart sizes almost always has a surfactant already mixed in.  When buying at the larger sizes and higher concentration like 41% or 50.2% you will need in most cases a surfactant to achieve best efficacy. 

AGAIN READ THE LABEL

As to the recent court cases.  No herbicide/pesticide is harmless. 
They all have a "signal word" : DANGER-POISON, DANGER, WARNING, CAUTION. 
The EPA states that glyphosate used as labeled is safe. 
The EPA, the European Food Safety Authority, the European Chemicals Agency all state that it is safe to use as labeled. 
The World Health Organization official position is that it is "probably carcinogenic in humans".
I am not going to say that any of them can be trusted. 
Those that swear the EPA is golden now say the EPA is corrupt. 
Those that say the EPA is full of "fill in the blank" now say that since the EPA says it is safe it must be safe.

The judge allowed in questionable evidence to support the plaintiff.  The judge also disallowed evidence that supported the defendant (Bayer/Monsanto).  That will be evaluated in appeals court.  Who knows where that will go.

Bottom line folks read the label, follow the label, don't make up your own concentration doses, don't make up your own rules. 
It is a violation of the law and is harmful not only to you but to the environment and will probably be counter-productive to your end goals.

By the way, I am licensed by our government not the manufacturer to apply pesticides.  Not only did I have to pass quite a few tests but I have to have continuing education (CE) courses every year to maintain that certification.

Sorry about the long post but I get tired of false information being put out there.  It is not just the law it is our planet's health we are talking about.

Offline Ianab

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Re: Roundup Usage Questions
« Reply #8 on: May 30, 2019, 06:00:10 AM »
"May Cause Cancer in California" is something that I take with a grain of salt. Because apparently so does bacon, and sunshine...  I sure as heck aren't giving those up completely. 

I certainly try and avoid direct contact with Roundup, sensible precautions etc. Don't spray yourself, wash up afterwards etc. Same as most chemicals. 

I use it for the random weeds that crop up around the house, mixed as directed, and spot sprayed. Nothing seems to happen for a couple of days, then they start looking a bit sick, and after a week you know that it's worked. 

But it's a bit like the people looking for "non-toxic" wood preservatives. Hang on, what you want is something that's highly toxic to insects and fungus, but 100% safe for humans? Well Borate sort of fits the bill, but it still says "poisonous" on the label, and if you feed enough to a lab rat it will probably die.  Woods that are "naturally decay resistant" (Cedar etc) actually rely on a heap of different and toxic chemicals. It's naturally present in the wood, but people have all sorts of reactions to it. 

There is a new weedkiller on the market that uses an allelopathic chemical derived from pine needles (notice how not much grows through a bed of pine needles). It's a "natural" chemical, but does that make it safe? I dunno...
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Offline Southside

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Re: Roundup Usage Questions
« Reply #9 on: May 30, 2019, 08:56:40 AM »
Well, for what it's worth spraying round up over a field of wheat to dessicate it and get a uniform and earlier dry down pre harvest has become common practice in these parts. Saw plenty of it yesterday. It's EPA legal, and in my opinion completely unethical and a big part of why glypohsate shows up in so many food samples now.  So yea, Monsanto is an issue. 
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Offline Woodpecker52

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Re: Roundup Usage Questions
« Reply #10 on: May 30, 2019, 09:10:10 AM »
The delta is drenched in it every year, also DDT and Toxifene still at the bottom of lakes and sloughs, would not eat a fish from them. Yet would eat the farm raised catfish!
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Offline Furu

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Re: Roundup Usage Questions
« Reply #11 on: May 30, 2019, 01:58:54 PM »
Well, for what it's worth spraying round up over a field of wheat to dessicate it and get a uniform and earlier dry down pre harvest has become common practice in these parts. Saw plenty of it yesterday. It's EPA legal, and in my opinion completely unethical and a big part of why glypohsate shows up in so many food samples now.  So yea, Monsanto is an issue.
I was not aware that that much wheat was planted and harvested in Virginia.  It is especially interesting that in late May they are already harvesting wheat in Virginia.  Seems rather early! :o
As an aside:
http://kswheat.com/the-truth-about-roundup-and-wheat-support-material
"Spraying Roundup on U.S. wheat crops prior to harvest is an uncommon practice; furthermore, according to label directions, wheat farmers must wait to harvest a crop until a minimum of 14 days after a glyphosate-based application.
The claims that Roundup agricultural herbicides are commonly doused on wheat crops a few days before harvest is not accurate. It is not routine for U.S. wheat producers to use Roundup, or other formulations of glyphosate, for pre-harvest applications. Although Roundup is labeled for pre-harvest applications at least 14 days before harvest as a desiccant or in order to control perennial weeds, it is uncommon for U.S. producers to make that application. As a point of clarification, in Canada it is more common for label-approved pre-harvest applications of Roundup brand herbicides due to the short growing season."



Not saying that it does not happen, as it does up in Canada due to the shorter growing season but it is not common in the US and I highly doubt that it has happened "yesterday", as claimed, on a wheat field anywhere in the Northern Hemisphere.
When agronomists are asked about using glyphosate as a desiccant, the standard response is: “glyphosate is not a desiccant,” which is tactful way of saying, “if a producer plans to desiccate, he should use an actual desiccant.”

Facts and not anecdotal hyperbole are much more worthwhile while discussing this topic.

Online btulloh

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Re: Roundup Usage Questions
« Reply #12 on: May 30, 2019, 04:12:40 PM »
In Virginia there's a fair amount of winter wheat grown.  It gets combined usually in June and then late beans go in behind it.

I can't say about anywhere else, but right here on my place, the wheat MAY get a dose of Roundup prior to harvest but only to eliminate any green weed material that may have come up.  This is done to keep the combine from gagging on green material.  It is done AT LEAST 2 weeks before combining and usually a bit longer so that it not only kills the green stuff, but also lets the dead green stuff lose some height before combining.  Generally it's only done when absolutely necessary because it is an expense and reduces the profit.  

Offline Southside

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Re: Roundup Usage Questions
« Reply #13 on: May 30, 2019, 07:01:39 PM »
Well, y'all need to make the drive to south side Virginia and look around. Perfectly brown wheat fields with sprayer tracks about 200' apart running through the fields. It is common and yes I saw it yesterday, not hyperbole since I drove about 100 miles back from a portable job. 

Come fall the same fields which will have Roundup Ready soybeans planted in them will be desicated with 2,4-D for the same reason. 

Maybe guys wait the full 14 days, maybe they don't to harvest the crop. Point is there is residual in the material, I don't care what Bayer says, the proof is in the end product testing when glyphosate shows up. 

The funny thing is that every tank of milk I ship is tested for antibiotic residue and if I ship a hot load I will be in a world of hurt, not the same for the grain operations. 
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Re: Roundup Usage Questions
« Reply #14 on: May 30, 2019, 07:06:45 PM »
@bigtrees I noticed you are in Montana, and wondered what the temperature was when you used the Roundup?  My own experience has been that even though it says best to use at 65 degrees and up, it works faster at 80 degrees.  Also, shaded areas are slower to react than sunny spots. 

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Re: Roundup Usage Questions
« Reply #15 on: May 30, 2019, 08:21:10 PM »
Last year was unusual, to say the least.  Here in my fields (that are leased to somebody) it was too wet to combine the beans.  They finally got in there with the combine on Dec. 28th. when there was a two or three day window and the condition of the beans and the ground would allow.  I doubt they got 12 bushels/acre.  I didn't ask.  It was way too late to plant wheat, and the winter conditions wouldn't have been very good anyway.  

Once it started warming up, all sorts of things started coming up.  Besides all the junk, there was a really good stand of volunteer winter wheat.  It sort of outgrew everything else and looked really good, but between being volunteer and getting a late start, the seed heads were of no consequence.  It all looked good, just looking out the window, but there was nothing there of any value.   Three weeks ago it got sprayed (it was about half-turned at that point) and a week later the beans got drilled in.  The beans are looking good and they're about three inches tall, but we need some rain.  

That's just what I see right here outside my window.  I don't have any idea what's going on somewhere else, other than all the reports I hear about wet weather and late planting in the middle of the country.  I'm not trying to start an argument, and I'm in no position to debate this Roundup thing.  It was a strange growing season here last year, and I hope everyone makes out this year.

Offline YellowHammer

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Re: Roundup Usage Questions
« Reply #16 on: May 31, 2019, 01:37:59 PM »
Well, y'all need to make the drive to south side Virginia and look around. Perfectly brown wheat fields with sprayer tracks about 200' apart running through the fields. It is common and yes I saw it yesterday, not hyperbole since I drove about 100 miles back from a portable job.
@Southside 
Hey Southside, do the wheat fields in your area look like mine? I bet they do.  I live in North Alabama, drove 45 miles this morning, and sure enough, just as you describe, the wheat fields I passed are brown, look ready to harvest, and because I was looking specifically due to this topic, I noticed ALL had fresh tractor tire tracks evenly spaced in the fields.  So I took a few pictures.  In Alabama, which is another state not known for its wheat, but known for its soybeans, planting winter wheat in the fall, harvesting in the spring, and then no till drilling soybeans is very common.  I do not know what was sprayed, but certainly, some kind of crop manipulation had happened very recently. 
 

 
 


I went to look at my jugs of Roundup Max I use on my corn, which on the front label, as shown says, "Specially formulated for Roundup Ready Crops."  However, it is also labeled for use on non Roundup Ready crops for specific purposes.


 
In the usage booklet, below, it clearly says "This product provides weed control prior to harvest" for wheat.  It also says there is only a 7 day restriction "between application and harvest or grazing" for wheat, specifically.


 
Also, I found this interesting reading in the National Association of Wheat Growers publication, 
The Facts About Glyphosate, Part 5: Glyphosate Use in Wheat ? A Recap | National Association of Wheat GrowersUSDA data
"USDA data shows the percentage of no-till wheat acres has increased from less than 5 percent to more than 20 percent of total acres in the northern and central Great Plains since 1989 (Hansen et al., 2012). An increase in no-till acres has been made possible by the increased use of pre-emergence glyphosate in order to manage harmful weeds."


   
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Offline Southside

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Re: Roundup Usage Questions
« Reply #17 on: May 31, 2019, 01:48:12 PM »
Yup, that's what they look like. Normally our wheat is combined around June 23, from past year observations this spray down gets the wheat off a week or two earlier. 

I have seen some guys spray then round bales the fields already, yup that won't get into the food stream. 
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Offline pine

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Re: Roundup Usage Questions
« Reply #18 on: May 31, 2019, 04:37:11 PM »
It is interesting that folks seem to use without much regard the term Roundup.  Yes I use the term gylophosate in a very generic fashion as well.  The real problem is there are different formulations of glyphosate based products by many manufacturers even under the Bayer AG (Monosanto) Brand name of Roundup.  The problem is just the brand name of Roundup is not used much by anyone anymore.  
For example:
The new Roundup For Lawns does not even contain glyphosate.   Folks still call it Roundup

In this thread Roundup Max has been used a couple of times.  There is no Roundup Max as far as I know: there is a Roundup ProMax there is a Roundup PowerMax.  
Both have
Glyphosate, N-(phosphonomethyl)glycine, in the form of its potassium salt ................................... 48.7%
along with the inert ingredients which are not identified.
Problem is you can not by label instructions use Roundup ProMax on crops but you can use Roundup PowerMax on crops. To do otherwise is a violation.  

Roundup ProMax
The complere broad-spectrum postemergence professional herbicide for non-crop, industriual, turf and ornamental weed control.

Roundup PowerMax

Herbicide for Roundup Ready® CropsSelective broad-spectrum weed control in Roundup Ready® cropsNon-selective, broad-spectrum weed control for many agricultural systems and farmsteads

You have to know what you are using and can not use a generic descriptor and not confuse folks that do not understand just how important it is to read the label for exactly what you have not what you are told by someone using a non exact brand name descriptor.
There is a lot more evidence coming to light that the so called inert ingredients are not as inert as the name implies.


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Re: Roundup Usage Questions
« Reply #19 on: May 31, 2019, 05:28:03 PM »
Bigtrees posted his question on 28th. Seems like it was longer ago. So it’s been four or five days since his initial application and his victims should be showing signs. A little longer for some weeds.

Any report?
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