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Author Topic: Production estimates  (Read 1532 times)

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Offline rooster 58

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Production estimates
« on: June 06, 2019, 01:38:41 PM »
Calling all lt35 operators, 
    I just looked at a job opportunity to saw 18,000 lineal feet of 1x4, and 2,500 lineal feet of 1x6. This material will be processed to baseboard and window sill trim
    The lumber will be sawn from ponderosa pine. The logs are in tree length, and will need to be bucked. Also, the logs are mostly small diameter,  8-12", with some going 12-14".
     This trim will be used in 26 small residential homes at a monastery,  and the superintendent would like to utilize the trees on the property. 
   I will have the use of their skid steer. I am providing a helper, (a good hand).
    I usually like to charge an hourly rate, which sounded ok to the superintendent,  however, he wants an idea of the board footage or lineal footage that I can produce in one day with my lt35.
    I have not sawn much of this type or volume. Normally,  I could saw 1500 bd ft a day with  a good hand. But sawing all small stock with small logs will bring production down. I should also mention that the average log length will probably be around 12'
      Can anyone say, or guess how much footage they could do under similar circumstances?
    Thanks guys for your help 

Offline Magicman

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Re: Production estimates
« Reply #1 on: June 06, 2019, 02:26:32 PM »
My recommendation is for an agreement to saw a sample couple of days with the understanding that either of you can opt out after the sample run.  Good communication is a key ingredient to a good agreement.
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Offline WV Sawmiller

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Re: Production estimates
« Reply #2 on: June 06, 2019, 02:32:05 PM »
   I like the MM's suggestion.

  If it was me I'd still plan on 1500-2000 bf per day. That is just the sawing after the logs are all bucked and stacked. Sounds like you will be doing lots of log handling but does not look like a lot of edging and the cants will fairly thin and you can zip right through them. Good luck.      

                                                                                     
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Offline Bandmill Bandit

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Re: Production estimates
« Reply #3 on: June 06, 2019, 02:43:44 PM »
While MMs advice is top shelf, I personaly would ONLY do that job that by the hour!

1) 1x material is a tedious time consuming process even though it is fun and enjoy able

2) un less you have real good help to keep the logs ready to load on the mill AND keep cut lumber moving, stacked and moved away from mill your production numbers will not look so great. 1x material is not a high production process on a LT35. I think I could manage about 2500 to 3000 BF on my LT40 Almost super with top notch logs and help BUT the only thing I would be doing is sawing. Nothing else.  
If you ain't livin on the edge you are takin up way to much room. Of course at my age if I get too close to that edge any more theres a good chance I may fall off.
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Offline rooster 58

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Re: Production estimates
« Reply #4 on: June 06, 2019, 04:11:13 PM »
Bandmill Bandit,
    I'm with you. I think 2000 bd ft/day is a lofty goal,  especially with so many small diameter logs. My hourly rate pretty much coincides with the going rate of sawing by the footage, of I can meet my goal of 1450/ day. I also reminded the client that due to small logs, I may need more time to complete the order

Offline Bruno of NH

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Re: Production estimates
« Reply #5 on: June 06, 2019, 04:54:55 PM »
I'm with MM
Ask to work a couple of sample days.
Anyone one worth working for with be into that.
thomas 8013 mill, Riehl Steel edger,Mahindra 3540 cab tractor loader F350 4x4 dump and lot of contracting tools

Online Southside

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Re: Production estimates
« Reply #6 on: June 06, 2019, 10:05:28 PM »
I am going to throw a wrench into this.  If the plan is to use the product off of your saw directly as trim then I would be very, very, leery of expecting very high production.  It would not surprise me if your production dropped significantly over normal operation.  I ran my 35 for a few years before I got my 4 head moulder and thought I was making very straight lumber - the moulder proved me quite wrong, that became the reason I bought an edger as the number of dips, rises, thick, and thin, boards becomes much more obvious when you begin to compare what you have produced to any straight line - which my moulder requires.  Even edging after drying did not keep tolerances tight enough.  Even had a guy with a 40 Super edge some material once and found the same thing, bands just have too much flex in them for super tight tolerance, which I would guess is going to be a requirement given the client.  

I think Magicmans suggestion of a trial run is very good advice both to look at the time and quality of product produced.  
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Offline rooster 58

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Re: Production estimates
« Reply #7 on: June 07, 2019, 12:08:31 AM »
From what I understand,  the lumber is to be kiln dried,  and then processed thru planting, or run through a moulder, he wasn't sure which

Online Southside

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Re: Production estimates
« Reply #8 on: June 07, 2019, 12:21:12 AM »
Ok - then that makes what you are suggesting a lot more comfortable, you will want to keep in mind to leave enough extra for that final step.  I usually leave an inch of width for material under 8", then I increase to maybe 1.25" - 1.5" over depending on the wood and width.  
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Offline Bandmill Bandit

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Re: Production estimates
« Reply #9 on: June 07, 2019, 10:13:55 AM »
I didn't address the log quality/size issue.
You MAY with ideal conditions be able to produce up to 2000BF in a LONG day, BUT likely half of that will not be of a quality to use for the intended purpose. 

IF you have your mill DIALED in to the performance level that I like to operate my mill at You might hit 2000 to 2500 a third of the days you are on the job.

Using 7 Carbide Turbos will help a LOT both with production AND consistent quality.

When cutting the type of finishing product you will be cutting you really don't want ANY pith and that means you pretty much want to cut a 2"x2" minimum (some times it will take a 4"x4")  out of the center of most logs. 

If I was to do that job with my equipment and knowledge/experience I would calculate 40 percent of the milled lumber as product that can go to the shaper and that will probably be on conservative side and very close to actual yield .Remember that about 25% of what goes through the shaper is waste produced during install. 

I am going to go out on a limb and say the max of usable product that will come through the shaper is going to be in the range of 800 to a 1000 board feet in and 8 hour day. It will take 1600 to 2000 BF of saw milled product to get that amount of quality finish lumber.

With the quality of the logs mentioned( and with out seeing them) you aint gona get there for yield.       

Personaly I would STILL do it because it is a good challenge to produce that kind and quality of material, but it isn't going to be less $$ to the client then going to the local Home Depot and picking up a lift of what they need to do the job. 
If you ain't livin on the edge you are takin up way to much room. Of course at my age if I get too close to that edge any more theres a good chance I may fall off.
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Offline Magicman

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Re: Production estimates
« Reply #10 on: June 07, 2019, 12:23:38 PM »
If you are being paid by the bf, scale/measure the dimension that you saw, not the dimension that he wants the final product to.  Stated another way; if he wants an actual finished 1X4, and you saw 1X5, then scale 1X5.  The shaving are his, not yours.
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Offline moodnacreek

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Re: Production estimates
« Reply #11 on: June 07, 2019, 12:41:55 PM »
This is what gang saws are for, doing this on your head saw is very inefficient.

Offline Magicman

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Re: Production estimates
« Reply #12 on: June 07, 2019, 02:05:29 PM »
Only if you happen to have a gang saw.  ;)  Otherwise, you use what you got.  :)

I'm content sawing 1X4's @ $75 per hour.  ;D
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Offline stavebuyer

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Re: Production estimates
« Reply #13 on: June 07, 2019, 02:37:17 PM »
One of the lowest production and lowest yield items I ever sawed was a Hemlock fixed dimension 1"x8"x10' order for vertical cabin siding. I owned the logs. Never again. Random width and length at half the price would have been twice the money.

Offline rooster 58

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Re: Production estimates
« Reply #14 on: June 07, 2019, 03:13:17 PM »
Yeah, normally I  charge 80- 90.00/hr. I quoted 85.00/ he with an offbearer. I will pick up 3.00/hr from the offbearer.  With the smaller size logs, there will be considerable degrade that will be of no use. 
    If I complete the job in five days, it will work out to .47/bd ft, which is only .02 more than the larger mill that's near me, whom also recommended me 

Offline rooster 58

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Re: Production estimates
« Reply #15 on: June 07, 2019, 03:15:59 PM »
I forgot to ask, 
    How do the 7 degree turbos work on the lt35 with the 25hp motor? I'm going to the open house in Buena Vista tomorrow and could pick up a box.
     Also, I just might trade my little 35 in on something else  :)

Offline Bandmill Bandit

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Re: Production estimates
« Reply #16 on: June 07, 2019, 03:31:24 PM »
Is that $.47 a BF of usable finished product OR $.47 BF of TOTAL BF that you saw out for the project??

There is a HUGE difference in those numbers!

FYI;  biggar mill will not improve your production numbers drastically on this job. I was very generous in my numbers as I based them on what I know could do with my mill in good quality logs and reduced that by about 20%.

7 carbide turbos work well on the LT35. Thats what the Woodmizer guys used on the LT35 they had at the local ag show last fall.
If you ain't livin on the edge you are takin up way to much room. Of course at my age if I get too close to that edge any more theres a good chance I may fall off.
2001 Dodge 1500 4x4. 2018 F150
2007 Woodmizer LT40HDG28 almost Super
2 Logrite 36 inch cant hooks and a bunch of stuff I built myself

Offline millwright

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Re: Production estimates
« Reply #17 on: June 07, 2019, 03:44:26 PM »
2000 per day with a good offbearer should be doable, that is if you have straight logs and they are 12 long. Ive done 3000 per day a couple times, but that was on an 8/4 thickness

Offline millwright

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Re: Production estimates
« Reply #18 on: June 07, 2019, 03:47:54 PM »
One more important thing is, who is doing the bucking ? You or the owner.

Offline rooster 58

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Re: Production estimates
« Reply #19 on: June 07, 2019, 04:11:17 PM »
The owner is doing the bucking. I made it clear that if I bucket the logs, he would be billed extra.
     I have not really tried to saw slot if footage in a day with my 35, that is I never had a real opportunity. I did however saw approximately 1500 ft one day, working primarily alone, with occasional help from someone.  But that was sawing bigger stuff.


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