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Author Topic: Crowned hickory lumber  (Read 1000 times)

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Offline kelLOGg

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Crowned hickory lumber
« on: June 09, 2019, 07:01:22 PM »
I am sawing an 8 hickory log that is 18 at the small end and 24 at the crotch at the other end. By the time I get to the crotch end there is a pronounced crown in the cut. Need feedback as to what causes this.  Here are the particulars:
 
1) I am using a newly sharpened 4 deg WM double hard band set at 0.025. Hickory is so tough I set and sharpen twice per log. Prior to each setting the set is about 0.022 each side so uneven wear is not a problem.

2) I increased the tension on the band beyond that which I usually use to no avail. Tensioner is a spring so I cant be quantitative here.

3) The beginning of the 18 wide cut there is very little crown but the 24 crotch end has about crown. I have observed this on hickory logs with no crotch. Apparently when the teeth become dull crown sets in. Since the set is not uneven why does this happen?

4) When I set the teeth I zero the setter with a piece of flat stock before setting each side. I know many sawyers use the raker tooth to zero the setter but I cant be sure the selected raker tooth has not been accidently set by hitting foreign matter in a log so I dont use it.

5) I am sawing live edge and I do not have a de-barker.

6) The guide rollers have minimal wear. Diameter differences front and back of the rollers are 0.000 (stationary) and 0.002 (moveable)

7) Blade alignment was done just before sawing.

(I sawed the crotch just to see what I would get. Pretty disappointing)
Help,
Bob

                                           Small end (little crown)







 
                                Crotch end (big crown)

 





 

 
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Offline jmouton

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Re: Crowned hickory lumber
« Reply #1 on: June 09, 2019, 07:34:40 PM »
i am thinking the hickory is dry and hard as a rock ,and in our experience we use the turbo 7 woodmizer blade for everything and you gotta have a sharp blade to cut  dry hickory, the bark is tough on blades and we pretty much max out tension on our lt-40


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Online Southside

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Re: Crowned hickory lumber
« Reply #2 on: June 09, 2019, 07:37:30 PM »
Given that crack I am going to say the log has a lot of stress in it and is pulling itself apart, even more now that you have removed some of what was holding it together.  Combine that with the twisted grain of Hickory and I don't think you have a sawmill problem.  
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Online btulloh

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Re: Crowned hickory lumber
« Reply #3 on: June 09, 2019, 07:55:01 PM »
Just another reason to hate hickory. I dont even like to put the chainsaw in it for firewood, much less saw it on the mill.
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Offline terrifictimbersllc

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Re: Crowned hickory lumber
« Reply #4 on: June 09, 2019, 09:31:59 PM »
Result is consistent with dulling blade, exactly what happens for me as 4s are pushed. Maybe abrasive in crotch seam?

Ps if it is dulling you should be able to see it with a 10x lens and right lighting.
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Offline moodnacreek

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Re: Crowned hickory lumber
« Reply #5 on: June 09, 2019, 09:43:20 PM »
I think Southside is right. Most hardwood will pull a curve unless you keep the heart centered by taking only one board per side.

Offline Don P

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Re: Crowned hickory lumber
« Reply #6 on: June 09, 2019, 10:15:14 PM »
That should have relieved a lot of the stress then, the next pass should be flat or much flatter if it is log stress. If it is crowned every pass in basically the same way I'd look to the mill.
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Offline YellowHammer

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Re: Crowned hickory lumber
« Reply #7 on: June 09, 2019, 11:23:00 PM »
My first thought when I see consistent crown in real hard wood, pecan and hickory, is dulling, but you seem to be addressing things pretty well, so Im not sure thats the issue.  However, I have dulled and burned bands in one pass in hickory so it can happen that fast.  

However, you shouldnt have to sharpen twice per log, normally I can go quite a few hickories between sharpenings.  So a few more questions would help me.

Does this happen consistently on many hickory logs or was it just this one?

Normally, once a band deflects that bad, it is getting real hot, and is dull after that cut, so what does the band look like?  Does it have pitch build up?  What color? What kind of lube are you using?  Does the band feel hot if you touch it with your hand? Most times I cut a curve like that, the lube hits the band and steam comes off.  

Whats your feed rate?  My experience with 4s is they cut flat, until they pack sawdust, then they wander.  Unfortunately, they have tendency to pack, more so than other bands, so I think they are kind of twitchy.  Whats the sawdust look like?

Its been my experience when sawing hickory to pull out the stops, I run either cotton picker splindle oil or diesel for my lube.

Anyways, hickory is tough, big hickory is tougher, dry hickory is worse and crotch hickory nasty.  
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Offline CCCLLC

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Re: Crowned hickory lumber
« Reply #8 on: June 10, 2019, 11:10:43 AM »
Agree with Southside, probably spilling some sawdust when you encounter that split as well. Easier said then doing, but sharp blade with increased sawing speed will help. Hickory should never be a guage of your saw or your capability. It is just tough stuff.

Offline MartyParsons

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Re: Crowned hickory lumber
« Reply #9 on: June 10, 2019, 04:07:47 PM »
Hello, 
  
Quote
increased sawing speed will help. Hickory should never be a guage of your saw or your capability. It is just tough stuff.

  You will need lots of blade lube, steep hook angle blade ( I prefer 7/39 Turbo) , change blade often. Increase feed rate. If you are getting fine sawdust between the lumber then increase feed rate. Yes move saw faster through the cut!

 If you are getting pancake flour between the cuts your blade is getting Hot and it will not cut. Did I talk about lots of blade lube.  :o watch out for sap build up on the tooth of the blade which decreases the set even more and makes the blade even hotter. The picture is pine sap but Hickory can build up. 
Hope this helps. 
Marty
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Offline kelLOGg

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Re: Crowned hickory lumber
« Reply #10 on: June 10, 2019, 05:00:47 PM »
I had a very gratifying morning on my hickory because I did one thing: removed the bark from the entry side on the remainder of yesterday's log! It had begun to peel away so I helped it the rest of the way. (I would have removed it on all logs but it can be like removing plate iron from a battleship.) I did sharpen the band as usual, also. YH is spot on referring to bark as "nasty". I'm amazed how tough it is.

I was also pleased with the accuracy of the cuts (except for one which looks like an operator error) and there was far less crowning. In fact, if I check flatness on each half of the crotch it is flat, suggesting tension being released from the two trunks as several of you suggested. The cut is smooth with few fibers on the surface and sawdust packed about 1/50th (estimate) of an inch on both sides of the cut. I cut the remaining 6 boards and the blade was still clean and cutting well.

I have not cut much hickory. The first was 15 years ago and I don't recall problems. Of the 3 I just finished the problems arose with the crotch.

The band is warm to the touch, never hot. I think this is because I have crowned steel wheels which conduct heat very well. I use diesel lube applied via felt pads top and bottom of band. The band finished the cuts very clean. On earlier cuts on this hickory the teeth were burnished with hard material which I had to remove with a rotary steel brush. Concerning feed rate: I didn't measure it but I estimate it took about a minute to cut thru 8'. At times during the cut the feed rate would just stop and I would assist with very slight push from my hand. I have speed control but dialing it up or down is a slower response than a slight push from my hand. A faster cutting speed would kill the engine. The rpm dropped to about 3200 at times so I slow down to get it at least to 3400. Notice my HP is only 16. Most sawyers with hydraulic mills have 30+ HP. Im in the little league.

All feedback has been very helpful - thanks to all.

See pics.

Bob

                 2nd board from top is a little thin - my bad






 

               Example of crotch cut


 
                                  Band very clean after cut

 



                      Lumber racked up to dry

 





 
      Very slight crown

 



Nice cathedral grain




 
  Nice straight cuts thru NO BARK

 


                Blade oiler

 
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Offline alan gage

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Re: Crowned hickory lumber
« Reply #11 on: June 10, 2019, 05:19:04 PM »
A faster cutting speed would kill the engine. The rpm dropped to about 3200 at times so I slow down to get it at least to 3400. Notice my HP is only 16.
Glad to hear you got it sawn up ok. I've seen recommendations to increase feed speed on species like ash when the sawdust is very fine and wants to pack in the cut. But like you I can only increase it to a certain point and then the engine really starts to bog down. So I guess we do what we can. So far it hasn't been a big issue for me.
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Offline CCCLLC

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Re: Crowned hickory lumber
« Reply #12 on: June 10, 2019, 05:22:09 PM »
I think that cambium layer under the bark is kin to Kevlar.

Offline kelLOGg

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Re: Crowned hickory lumber
« Reply #13 on: June 11, 2019, 06:11:50 AM »
 :D Yeah, they went to a lot of effort to make Kevlar when all they had to do was use hickory bark.  ;D
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Offline Weekend_Sawyer

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Re: Crowned hickory lumber
« Reply #14 on: June 14, 2019, 12:03:19 PM »
I like your tie down method.

Let us know how it dries.
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