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Author Topic: Hard time figuring out people  (Read 2553 times)

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Offline K-Guy

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Re: Hard time figuring out people
« Reply #20 on: July 10, 2019, 02:00:43 PM »
I hate when I find something for sale online, talk to them and agree to buy it only to find when I get there they want more money for it. I don't care if it's a dollar more, I walk away. I say it's the principal behind the deal, my wife says it's because I'm stubborn and hard-headed. ;D ;D
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Offline barbender

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Re: Hard time figuring out people
« Reply #21 on: July 10, 2019, 02:07:47 PM »
 I won't deal with someone that changes th price, either. Hey Poston, has the SGU adjusted for inflation?($400😁)
Too many irons in the fire

Offline Brad_bb

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Re: Hard time figuring out people
« Reply #22 on: July 10, 2019, 02:46:29 PM »

AH, Sawguy, you just have to explain to them that is a $50. saw with $500. worth of time, parts, and love added.
 
This is really true of the wood we make.  The log is worth the least, typically.  It's all the processing that we do that puts value in it.  Walnut is not worth much as a log compared to all the time and labor added to get it to a dried planed piece of lumber.  Yes, after processing it might be worth $4, $6,$8 or whatever per BF.  Some novices/uneducated think that it what their Walnut is worth that much in log form.  We (all of us on this forum) I think get tired of educating people on that.  
I understand that people don't want to feel like they are being taken advantage of.  They get conflicting info from the "friend" versus one of us.  Sometimes you've just got to give them time to figure what it's really worth, and the value of getting it out of their yard.
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Offline John Bartley

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Re: Hard time figuring out people
« Reply #23 on: July 11, 2019, 07:02:56 AM »
I wouldn't blame the friend. Some people are just attracted to greed.
... and sometimes they are just looking out for you to make sure you don't get ripped off. 
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Offline John Bartley

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Re: Hard time figuring out people
« Reply #24 on: July 11, 2019, 07:12:46 AM »
I think it's fair to point out that while this particular discussion has focused on "greed" and "value" ....  like many tales that are blown out of proportion, the notion that the value of Black Walnut trees is super high is based in fact, and a fact that was well circulated back in the day.  

I remember reading this article when it first came out, reprinted in a local newspaper and at that time I wasn't milling yet, hell I wasn't even working yet ... I was still slogging my way thru' the world of high school, but ..... this article spread like wildfire :

?Perfect? Walnut Tree Is Among 18 Sold for ,000 - The New York Times

There are many other verifiable reportings of high value logs in North America, so when people ask about the value of their trees, maybe cut them some slack and educate them politely and professionally ..... they may have read something like the article linked above.
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Offline saskatchewanman

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Re: Hard time figuring out people
« Reply #25 on: July 11, 2019, 12:53:15 PM »
Although perhaps not the reason in this case and I have never bought or sold a log but I have bought and sold many other items ;D

No matter what side of the fence you are on, there always those that try to take advantage of a perceived ignorance or lack of knowledge :(. Trust must be earned and caution is always warranted when dealing with the unknown or those known not to be trusted!

A couple of year ago I had a local cattleman offer to rent 100 acres of ungrazed pasture of mine for 0.25/day per animal. This seemed extremely low so I asked a "friend" who I thought was more knowledgeable than I. He quickly educated me on grazing arrangements and I went to someone else who promptly offered me 1.25/day per animal. It just takes once incident like this to make one distrustful. 

Online Southside

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Re: Hard time figuring out people
« Reply #26 on: July 11, 2019, 01:03:07 PM »
As with anything else the devil is in the details.  In the case you mentioned the first guy may have been going on the principal that he will "take half, leave half" where the second guy would basically mine your grass to the parched dirt.  Which example ends up being more profitable to you in the end?  I see this same example all the time with "the hay guy" in these parts.  A new one meanders through every couple years or so and plays the game of offering a few more $$ or a couple extra bales over what the landowner is getting now.  Well, when the hay is cut 1" from the soil surface in August and everything bakes to a crisp with nothing being added back into the soil the cockleburs, mares tail, broom sedge, and sickle pod fill in the gaps quite nicely and the landowner is left with a bush hog haven.   
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Offline Tasha

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Re: Hard time figuring out people
« Reply #27 on: July 11, 2019, 01:54:36 PM »
I hate when I find something for sale online, talk to them and agree to buy it only to find when I get there they want more money for it. I don't care if it's a dollar more, I walk away. I say it's the principal behind the deal, my wife says it's because I'm stubborn and hard-headed. ;D ;D
I say it is because you have integrity, honor and a sense of self worth. 
A rare commodity now-a-days. 
Amazing how many folks think/say they have it but demonstrate the opposite so many times in their actions.
Just look around and it is so prevalent.

Offline Nomad

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Re: Hard time figuring out people
« Reply #28 on: July 12, 2019, 06:38:20 AM »
     Like a lot of us, many times I've been offered standing trees "for free," or if I know anyone who'd be interested.  Even when one of my clients was taking all the free pines he could get from tree services, (and he got a lot!) he wouldn't be interested because of the associated costs involved.  I try to explain the situation to these people.  Some seem to understand, some don't.  A few may actually think they're offering a favor to us.  All of them are trying to get a job done for no cost. 
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Online Don P

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Re: Hard time figuring out people
« Reply #29 on: July 12, 2019, 07:06:02 AM »
I'm reminded of the saying "Never assume malice when ignorance will suffice".
I also agree with re-evaluating a situation where the price or conditions change.

I was cleaning up at a job we are going to work on, rebuilding a house after a fire. I shoved some rotten logs into the bonfire pile and my memory jogged. A few years ago the fellow had some trees cut around that house and a friend had a new sawmill. The logs were not much but would have been fine to learn on. I tried to put the two together. All of a sudden the logs had value and feelings got a little bruised. Well, now that fellow needs a mason and the fellow that had the new sawmill is one heck of a mason. Karma just bit. Funny thing is the fellow in need of a mason now has forgotten the injury he did. It does make me wonder how many times my elbows have been out and my brain off.
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Online moodnacreek

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Re: Hard time figuring out people
« Reply #30 on: July 12, 2019, 08:28:24 AM »
There are a lot of people who where never taught to 'put the shoe on the other foot'.

Offline Old Greenhorn

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Re: Hard time figuring out people
« Reply #31 on: July 12, 2019, 09:54:56 AM »
I'm reminded of the saying "Never assume malice when ignorance will suffice".

I like this... a lot.... I was recently reminded that most folks just don't understand what we do or how we do it, or how dangerous it can be, or what sacrifices we make to do it, which is fine. There are a lot of things I don't understand either. But I try to understand if someone will educate me. I recently got really tweaked because I went out my way to help someone and they treated my expense of time as if it had little value. Probably because it wasn't their time being wasted. I believe most folks have no idea how much effort most of us expend in this 'stuff', those who are making a living are balancing all the business stuff and working long hours to get production out and product delivered hoping to stay profitable. Many can get that pretty easy. But those of us who are side-liners or heavy hobbyists are seen as just playing around and everything is free. Reality for most of us is that we work full time jobs, take care of the home and family, then fight to make time to do what we love. Sometimes we pick up a few bucks, but the whole deal is a net loss that we accept because we love it. When you put your work on hold to help someone else and they toss it aside, they have no idea what they were offered, nor what they just cast away, and they don't even get that they 'took' something from you. Yes, of course it's ignorance, but the effect is still the same. At my age, my time is more valuable to me than money.
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Offline Brad_bb

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Re: Hard time figuring out people
« Reply #32 on: July 12, 2019, 02:11:42 PM »
I remember reading this article when it first came out, reprinted in a local newspaper and at that time I wasn't milling yet, hell I wasn't even working yet ... I was still slogging my way thru' the world of high school, but ..... this article spread like wildfire :

?Perfect? Walnut Tree Is Among 18 Sold for ,000 - The New York Times

There are many other verifiable reportings of high value logs in North America, so when people ask about the value of their trees, maybe cut them some slack and educate them politely and professionally ..... they may have read something like the article linked above.
I don't understand why it would be worth so much other than cumulative value (of the number of logs sections and estimated quantity of veneer in each).  I don't know how long their veneer knife is, but they'll have to cut the 57'er up to practical lengths.  They can peel a certain amount off each log but as they get closer to the juvenile tree inside, they may start to find self pruned branch knots, maybe even a hollow.  
   Stories like that have done the opposite of educating the public, and help lead to what we run into, the urban myth of the highly valuable black walnut.  No urban walnut is highly valuable, at least not in the veneer sense.
Anything someone can design, I can sure figure out how to fix!
If I say it\\\\\\\'s going to take so long, multiply that by at least 3!

Offline John Bartley

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Re: Hard time figuring out people
« Reply #33 on: July 12, 2019, 04:29:24 PM »
I remember reading this article when it first came out, reprinted in a local newspaper and at that time I wasn't milling yet, hell I wasn't even working yet ... I was still slogging my way thru' the world of high school, but ..... this article spread like wildfire :

?Perfect? Walnut Tree Is Among 18 Sold for ,000 - The New York Times

There are many other verifiable reportings of high value logs in North America, so when people ask about the value of their trees, maybe cut them some slack and educate them politely and professionally ..... they may have read something like the article linked above.
I don't understand why it would be worth so much other than cumulative value (of the number of logs sections and estimated quantity of veneer in each).  I don't know how long their veneer knife is, but they'll have to cut the 57'er up to practical lengths.  They can peel a certain amount off each log but as they get closer to the juvenile tree inside, they may start to find self pruned branch knots, maybe even a hollow.  
   Stories like that have done the opposite of educating the public, and help lead to what we run into, the urban myth of the highly valuable black walnut.  No urban walnut is highly valuable, at least not in the veneer sense.
I don't have the knowledge to discuss the value of an individual tree, and it's not really important anyway.  For the purposes of this discussion, the point was that people don't see the "everyday".  They see the sensational news story and in this case they saw a sale of "valuable" trees, which has since informed their opinion ... an opinion which may be wrong in fact, but which leads them to think the way they do.  I think we're all guilty of that at one time or another, hence my suggestion to go easy and educate them where possible.
cheers
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Offline ScottCC

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Re: Hard time figuring out people
« Reply #34 on: July 12, 2019, 08:17:57 PM »
An item is only worth as little as someone will take for it and as much as someone will give?  Both parties try to educate each other to find the point where the number is equal.  That is a business deal.  When both parties work to make sure each other is not cheated they become friends.  A lot of business is all the rest and probably not a good thing for someone.
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Offline John Bartley

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Re: Hard time figuring out people
« Reply #35 on: July 12, 2019, 08:22:34 PM »
An item is only worth as little as someone will take for it and as much as someone will give?  Both parties try to educate each other to find the point where the number is equal.  That is a business deal.  When both parties work to make sure each other is not cheated they become friends.  A lot of business is all the rest and probably not a good thing for someone.
Yup, the best deal is always the one where everyone wins.  That's the basis for "word of mouth" recommendations.
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Offline WDH

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Re: Hard time figuring out people
« Reply #36 on: July 12, 2019, 08:40:43 PM »
I had a friend who had a son who had a wife who was building a house on a lot that was part of an old pine plantation an bit over 30 years old.  The trees were in the 16" to 20" diameter range.  My friend asked me if I wanted the trees that they needed to remove from the house site and potential yard.  I said sure and went over to meet with the son and his wife.  I offered to fell the trees and haul the wood, but as they were just common planted pine, I could not pay anything for them.  They were OK until the wife's Dad came up.  He said that no way could I have the trees as he had a friend who knew trees and these trees were worth a lot of money.  I said OK and went home.  A few months later I drove by and saw a big pile of logs by the new driveway.  That is where they all rotted. 
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Re: Hard time figuring out people
« Reply #37 on: July 12, 2019, 09:13:18 PM »
Are these the same people that buy lottery tickets and just know if they keep playing they will win the big one?? ???   ::)  ::)
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Re: Hard time figuring out people
« Reply #38 on: July 12, 2019, 10:45:49 PM »
  I had a customer call me I think it was last year. Job was about 10-12 miles from home. I knew something was wrong when I got there because it was a level lot, good access, neatly stacked logs, and even in the shade of a big old oak tree. I never get jobs like that. They were pines that had been down about 18 months. Another sawyer had promised to saw them on shares but never got around to it so he asked me to come saw them for framing for a family chapel he wanted to build. When I set up I could hear the sawyers chewing. First log - every 2' or less a 3/8" hole. We pulled a log off the top of the stack - same thing. We called the job after the second job. Might could have gotten sheeting but not suitable for framing. The guy tried to save a buck and lost it all. I had another neighbor took a load of walnut to another neighbor half a mile up the road who is 5-6 cents a bf cheaper than me. I passed by regularly and watched them sit for a year till he asked me to pick them up and saw them. Fortunately walnut is a lot more durable than pine.
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