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Author Topic: Drum Switch Wiring on an older Wood Mizer Mill- Please help  (Read 1573 times)

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Offline Maine Gal

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Can anyone possibly help with wiring the forward/reverse drum switch on an old Wood Mizer mill? We replaced the old up/down switch without issue as it had an easy to understand diagram. This one did not come with an easy explanation and although it came from Wood Mizer, the gentleman we spoke to there couldn't help us. The previous owner had some wires wrong so the forward and reverse were backwards. We decided to replace it but cannot figure out the wiring and don't want to do any damage. If anyone understands wiring and can help I would be eternally grateful! Pictures of our wires and switch installation diagram included.
 

      









Offline Southside

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Re: Drum Switch Wiring on an older Wood Mizer Mill- Please help
« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2019, 07:59:14 PM »
@MartyParsons might be able to help. 
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Offline beav

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Re: Drum Switch Wiring on an older Wood Mizer Mill- Please help
« Reply #2 on: July 13, 2019, 08:01:28 PM »
Wow that mill is an oldie! The rotary speed control switch had several detents unlike the later ones which had an infinitely adjustable potentiometer. '84 or early '85?
The wiring would prolly be different than my '87 for that reason
I don't think I can help for that reason but make sure if you copy one the speed control is similar to yours.
I would think someone at wood mizer can help you?
Yours even has the high speed reverse lever!  Good luck sorting it out

Offline Maine Gal

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Re: Drum Switch Wiring on an older Wood Mizer Mill- Please help
« Reply #3 on: July 13, 2019, 08:08:28 PM »
Yes, it's an 85. She's old, but fit in the budget at the time. We ordered the switch from Wood Mizer and the guy told us there wasn't an available diagram to help like there was with the other switch. Just that page I posted which helps me absolutely none.  :-\ I guess I will have to call WM and try to speak with someone else that may have insight.

Offline MartyParsons

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Re: Drum Switch Wiring on an older Wood Mizer Mill- Please help
« Reply #4 on: July 14, 2019, 07:33:55 AM »
Hello
I am away. I can check Monday.
Marty
A pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees opportunity in every difficulty. -Winston Churchill

Offline stihltoomany

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Re: Drum Switch Wiring on an older Wood Mizer Mill- Please help
« Reply #5 on: July 14, 2019, 09:11:56 PM »
Marty is the man if anybody can help you he sure can
Way too many saws, mostly STIHL
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and other dirt toys
Looking for hyd bandsaw mill, Timberking used maybe? NOT anymore!
 WoodMizer LT40 super

Offline Maine Gal

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Re: Drum Switch Wiring on an older Wood Mizer Mill- Please help
« Reply #6 on: July 15, 2019, 05:30:59 PM »
That would be incredible! Thank you! ;D

Offline MartyParsons

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Re: Drum Switch Wiring on an older Wood Mizer Mill- Please help
« Reply #7 on: July 16, 2019, 07:44:25 AM »
I do have a wiring diagram. The coil style they use for only a few years. The wiring diagram is not available. I would try to conatact Sparks ( Rick L.) at Indy. 

On the newer mills with the metal cover drum switch goes like this. 
# 1. 12 volt +
# 2. Yellow to PF curcit board
# 3. Motor term A
# 4. Motor term B
# 5. Module mosfet?
# 6. Ground - 

I am not sure if this would be the same on the coil style. Most of these failed early and I have only ever seen two both the knob would not turn. 

Not much help. 
Marty
A pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees opportunity in every difficulty. -Winston Churchill

Offline corke

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    • EX-FACTORY
Re: Drum Switch Wiring on an older Wood Mizer Mill- Please help
« Reply #8 on: July 16, 2019, 09:53:33 AM »
This may not totally help you with your wiring conundrum, but look at the old switch you removed. If I remember correctly (pretty good chance I don't), WM used to saw off one of the vertical contact posts on the drum switch. I'm pretty sure new drum switches were modified in this way before they were used. If there is a post missing from your old switch, cut off the same one. This lets you have speed control while moving forward sawing, but "cuts out" the speed control on the return, allowing it to return at full speed. I've got an old contact that may have a diagram - I'm checking and if he does, I'll reply again.

Offline Maine Gal

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Re: Drum Switch Wiring on an older Wood Mizer Mill- Please help
« Reply #9 on: July 17, 2019, 03:55:46 PM »
Yes, the old switch did have appear to have a piece missing. We thought it had broken prior. However it was also wired wrong I believe bc the controls were backward, so we only had speed control in reverse. Doesnt bode well when its full throttle sawing. :-\ That's why we didn't try to wire it back the same way. Plus the new switch appears to make different contact patterns. 

Offline Maine Gal

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Re: Drum Switch Wiring on an older Wood Mizer Mill- Please help
« Reply #10 on: July 17, 2019, 05:12:20 PM »
Hi Marty, somehow had missed your post earlier. Thank you for responding. I talked with a nice WM Indy gentleman little bit ago, I belive his name was Greg. He found a diagram so fingers crossed that it's the correct fix we need. Thank you all for the input, this is a great group! I love reading the forums and learning new things. I will be applying a lot of info learned here when we build our cabin and barn and do all our other upcoming projects.

Offline Bluejay27

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Re: Drum Switch Wiring on an older Wood Mizer Mill- Please help
« Reply #11 on: July 17, 2019, 11:14:57 PM »
Just as a work around, you could wire it the same as before except swap the leads at the motor. This will reverse the controls.
'98 Wood-Mizer LT40HDD42 Super, '08 LT40HDG28, '15 LT70HDD55-RW, '93 Clark GPX25 Forklift, '99 Ford F550

Offline Ben Cut-wright

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Re: Drum Switch Wiring on an older Wood Mizer Mill- Please help
« Reply #12 on: July 18, 2019, 07:37:12 PM »
Hi Marty, somehow had missed your post earlier. Thank you for responding. I talked with a nice WM Indy gentleman little bit ago, I belive his name was Greg. He found a diagram so fingers crossed that it's the correct fix we need. Thank you all for the input, this is a great group! I love reading the forums and learning new things. I will be applying a lot of info learned here when we build our cabin and barn and do all our other upcoming projects.
I would certainly appreciate it if you could share the wiring diagram they found.  The drum switch internal contacts schemes can be different.  Apparently one member, and possibly your old drum switch confirms, a "contact blade might even have been eliminated" on some?

The wiring diagram sheet you posted would most likely suffice for someone who has experience in rewiring to match the drum switch.  There should also be a diagram inside the drum switch cover.
 
A photo of the old drum switch wiring and the diagram inside that switch cover would help others assist in wiring the new switch correctly.  Identifying every wire previous to disconnecting is good practice.  There are not that many wires in that drum switch and they terminate relatively close to the components.

The wiring diagrams for my WoodMizer LT 40 HD are included in the engine manual.  There are often several revisions so the correct diagram must be used.  When a different switch scheme is used it requires changing terminals.  If you don't have the owner's manuals I suggest you procure them.
There are several reasons that rheostat isn't the best option.  They have shorter lives than electronic controls, they do not provide infinite speed control, WoodMizer abandoned their use, and even finding a replacement that works just puts you back to.... a poor option.  I would advise upgrading to electronic speed control of the forward/reverse motor. 

Offline Maine Gal

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Re: Drum Switch Wiring on an older Wood Mizer Mill- Please help
« Reply #13 on: August 10, 2019, 02:22:11 PM »
Hi Ben, sorry for the delay. I haven't been online lately. The diagram they sent was the one in the engine manual. 
Got the drum switch hooked up but now the power feed speed control isn't working. Also, when set on high speed it's backfeeding power and trying to start the motor. I am soo frustrated. 

Of course our only time to work on this is weekends when WM isn't open so we can't get help. Wish we could find someone to pay to come finally fix this thing. Well, for a while anyways. We need to get milling. Anyone good with electrical in Southern Maine? 

Also, looking at this diagram show that there should be fuse breakers, modules, diodes.. I see none of those. Is that an upgrade thing for the old ones, or did the guy we guy this from remove all those things? I just can't figure this thing out.

Offline Woodpecker52

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Re: Drum Switch Wiring on an older Wood Mizer Mill- Please help
« Reply #14 on: August 10, 2019, 02:42:48 PM »
Just look at the switch and think about what you are trying to do.  Its a DC motor so direct drive, note the contacts and the flow of elec. at each position one way  what wires are connected and the other way what wires are contacted.  DC you are just switching hot around to reverse.  You should have forward, off, and reverse.  Figure what wires are what for the motor and what each is doing after that it will not be hard to figure out the switch.  Can google search DC motors and look at wiring for this motor.
Woodmizer LT-15, Ross Pony #1 planner, Ford 2600 tractor, Stihl chainsaws, Kubota rtv900 Kubota L3830F tractor

Offline Maine Gal

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Re: Drum Switch Wiring on an older Wood Mizer Mill- Please help
« Reply #15 on: August 10, 2019, 03:26:24 PM »
The drum switch is now hooked up and we have forward and reverse correctly. The speed control is hooked up but not working now. Full speed both directions. Also, something is backfeeding and trying to start the engine when speed control is on high. I figured maybe a bad ground and have checked and cleaned connections.  

Offline Woodpecker52

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Re: Drum Switch Wiring on an older Wood Mizer Mill- Please help
« Reply #16 on: August 10, 2019, 04:37:49 PM »
Speed control wire should block and control the hot wire  before the motor I would think.  It is only limiting the amount of elec. flow to the motor, should be a simple fix. Should a matter of running the hot from one side of the speed control .to the other so current has to pass through it before the motor.
Woodmizer LT-15, Ross Pony #1 planner, Ford 2600 tractor, Stihl chainsaws, Kubota rtv900 Kubota L3830F tractor

Offline Maine Gal

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Re: Drum Switch Wiring on an older Wood Mizer Mill- Please help
« Reply #17 on: August 10, 2019, 07:46:59 PM »
Simple fixes always elude me with electrical. :-X  This new drum switch is different than the original, so I do think that the diagram may not be quite right for all these old components. Going to try and get ahold of this infamous WM "Sparks" fella so many speak highly of next week so I don't cause more issues with wiring not hooked correctly. This mill may be the end of my sanity before we ever get anything else milled.

Offline Ben Cut-wright

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Re: Drum Switch Wiring on an older Wood Mizer Mill- Please help
« Reply #18 on: August 11, 2019, 10:08:34 AM »
The diagram you received was the same one in your engine manual?  Also, it was the diagram you followed in order to get the power feed motor to reverse but the power feed still does not control speed? And now your engine starter is energized when the power feed motor is "set to high speed"?  Only asking to verify you wrote precisely what the conditions are.

Because you clearly do not see in the diagram "fuse breakers, modules, diodes", that diagram is not correct for your application.  Apparently the drum switch wiring scheme you used is reversing the motor.  That's a good start.  Now you need to correct the error in the speed control circuit. Your description indicates the rheostat is either not included in the current wiring scheme, or it is defective.

The "start the motor" error in wiring is just that, something was done wrong. Don't expect to find some evil demon hiding in the wiring loom.  Instead look for the cause of the incorrect action beginning at the starter solenoid and testing toward power, not ground.  Find where, other than the ignition switch, the starter solenoid is getting power. This should be fairly simple, look at the changes you made first.
 
Make notes/diagrams, keep those notes current, and record them for future when final corrections resolve the issues.  Don't rely on memory....during or after the work.  Just because the manufacturer is not available when it is convenient for you does not mean you cannot discuss your problem during their hours of operation.  Use your in-hand information and what you can describe from what you find in testing to aid the skilled professionals.  It is nearly impossible to have too much information...unless that information is not pertinent to the situation at hand. Someone who understands electrical circuitry and can communicate with a technician should be chosen to make the call.  Prepare to make notes and/or record the call.

"Too many cooks spoil the stew".  ONE person should be in control/have oversight of the diagnosis and repair. Allowing others to try this and that will almost always result in errors which make the repair many times more difficult.  Asking others to "take a look"  or asking for advice isn't the same thing as having others making changes. Whether or not these changes are correct, they might never be known by the person in control, or be recorded for future.  The goal is getting the device working as designed or better.  Knowing what was wrong and what corrections were required to accomplish this task is the only way to be confident of an accurate repair. (These comments are not meant to insinuate this is your situation.)

IMO, this is not "simple".  Combine the drum switch wiring changes, an obsolete speed control method with unconfirmed components, changes made that add more intrigue, distance and time from technical assistance, lack of on-hand electrical experience,  no original wiring diagram to start from and no wiring diagram made when the parts were replaced, and possibly other factors not known, and it is not simple at all.  Stating the above is my attempt to help preserve your "sanity".  This will most likely not end with, "take the blue wire and connect it to terminal 4." for example.  You have made some headway already.  The biggest obstacle to success is a failure to persevere.

Good luck.

Offline Maine Gal

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Re: Drum Switch Wiring on an older Wood Mizer Mill- Please help
« Reply #19 on: August 11, 2019, 12:15:10 PM »
The wiring diagram we are using is the one supplied to me from Greg over at WM after he looked up our mill. I called because the new drum switch had no diagram and he said this would help us through hookup. This diagram shows the fuse panel, diodes, etc. It is our mill that seems to be lacking these.


 
 
Neither of us are electronically inclined so it has been a joint effort of trying to figure out what is happening. Usually I can research to help figure things out in life, but wiring is a whole different beast and I don't want to cause more problems. If I could find and hire someone local who knows what they are doing, I would gladly do so. I'm fairly certain that the prior mill owner changed up wires and colors and just kind of rigged things up to get them to work, at least temporarily. We are just chasing old wires. It's been a mess. We couldn't afford a new mill and didn't quite know what we were doing when shopping for one. So, here we are. I did save pics of how the old drum switch was wired but the new switch is different and has more contact points.

Thank you for your insight and advice.

Offline Ricker

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Re: Drum Switch Wiring on an older Wood Mizer Mill- Please help
« Reply #20 on: August 11, 2019, 04:38:50 PM »
I don't know where in Maine you located but you might want to google Ross Claire at Wood-Maine and give them a call. He's a busy man but I think he does field calls, don't know the cost of such a visit

Offline Maine Gal

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Re: Drum Switch Wiring on an older Wood Mizer Mill- Please help
« Reply #21 on: August 13, 2019, 06:52:47 PM »
Update for anyone coming to the forum with similar issues-
 I spoke with @sparks at WM Indy earlier who explained that the drum switch we had purchased through the Maine WM just will not work with our current set up unless we upgrade the power feed and speed control from the ancient original style we have on this ol' dinosaur. Very nice, knowledgeable man. That made me feel a bit better knowing that no matter what diagram I had or wires I switched it wasn't an issue I could solve no matter how much I tried. Wish I had called prior to spending 2 frustrated weeks on this.   
I don't feel better about the $818 it will cost to upgrade unless we can get the original drum switch hooked back up for the time being. 
 whiteflag_smiley 
Thank you to Rick (Sparks) for your help today and everyone who offered suggestions on the forum. Hopefully after I get a couple other wires figured out that were rigged we'll be up and running again soon!

Offline Woodpecker52

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Re: Drum Switch Wiring on an older Wood Mizer Mill- Please help
« Reply #22 on: August 13, 2019, 09:42:28 PM »
I think I would rather go back to the old drum switch and save 818 dollars.  If the only issue is a backwards throw then just duck tape and sharpie and label what is forward and what is reverse. Ebay has a lot of drum switches for sale.
Woodmizer LT-15, Ross Pony #1 planner, Ford 2600 tractor, Stihl chainsaws, Kubota rtv900 Kubota L3830F tractor

Offline Maine Gal

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Re: Drum Switch Wiring on an older Wood Mizer Mill- Please help
« Reply #23 on: August 16, 2019, 11:22:09 AM »
Woohoo! Got the old, original drum switch hooked back up after speaking with another knowledgeable man over to WM Indy, (Tim, maybe?) who provided me with the old wiring diagram and helped me walk through figuring out some other horrendous wiring issues so I could rewire. The old girl is again milling! Yay! Wanted to share the drum switch diagram in case it will help someone else, as I couldn't find one anywhere online when I looked for it. The bottom one is for the earliest models like mine. Happy girl here!
8)

 

Offline Ben Cut-wright

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Re: Drum Switch Wiring on an older Wood Mizer Mill- Please help
« Reply #24 on: August 17, 2019, 09:47:52 AM »

Happy to hear it's working. Thanks for posting that wiring diagram. WoodMizer technical and parts support has pulled my fat out of the fire a few times.

Would you be so good as to report your assessment of forward speed control with the rheostat unit?  Since these have steps in speed, not infinite control, it is often the case you have to select a speed a bit slower than the mill could accommodate.

Did you determine what caused the starter feedback issue?

Cleaning the drum switch regularly and lubing with the proper product will prolong its life.  Might be wise to be thinking about what the best route will be when it fails in the future.  Inspect and replace the motor brushes is also another electrical maintenance item.

Offline Maine Gal

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Re: Drum Switch Wiring on an older Wood Mizer Mill- Please help
« Reply #25 on: August 17, 2019, 09:42:08 PM »
The starter feedback was wiring hooked up incorrectly. One of the drum switches was wired in with the starter in the box. Lots of wires in the wrong spots. A mess, but I have it under control finally. 

As far as the rheostat question, I'm not exactly sure what you mean. We milled all day today, never going above 3 when cutting. The old 14 hoss Kohler motor has all she can do to keep up with that. Any faster & it has a hard time. Cutting thicker boards we kept it at 2. 

This has all been a big learning curve and I'm sure we'll be learning a lot more. The power feed upgrade is right around the corner I'm sure. I have all the manuals printed so going to try to keep up with whatever we can as far as maintenance to keep the old gal going. It was a great feeling to end the day with a big pile of lumber ready for building tomorrow instead of heading the the lumber yard to buy some  ;)


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