The Forestry Forum is sponsored in part by:

iDRY Vacuum Kilns


Forestry Forum
Sponsored by:


TimberKing Sawmills



Toll Free 1-800-582-0470

LogRite Tools



Norwood Industries Inc.




Your source for Portable Sawmills, Edgers, Resaws, Sharpeners, Setters, Bandsaw Blades and Sawmill Parts

EZ Boardwalk Sawmills. More Saw For Less Money!

STIHLDealers.com sponsored by Northeast STIHL


Woodland Sawmills

Peterson Swingmills

 KASCO SharpTech WoodMaxx Blades

Turbosawmill

Sawmill Exchange

Michigan Firewood, your BRUTE FORCE Authorized Dealer

FARMA


Baker Products

ECHO-Bearcat

iDRY Wood Lumber Vacuum Drying for everyon

Nyle Kiln Dry Systems




Author Topic: How Do You Turn Logs - Alaskan Mill  (Read 541 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Online lxskllr

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 1465
  • Age: 50
  • Location: MD USA
  • Gender: Male
  • dummy with saw
    • Share Post
How Do You Turn Logs - Alaskan Mill
« on: October 08, 2019, 07:19:39 PM »
Thinking ahead to this fall, I'm gonna drop a large oak(~30"dbh) and make 20' boards out of it. Once I slab off the top, I guess I need to turn it to slab the sides. Right now, I'm leaning towards driving spikes in the side, and pulling it over with my maasdam, perhaps with a 5:1 added.

The alternatives are take live edge slabs, and somehow manhandle them into an upright position, and mill them that way, or maybe freehand cut more manageable sizes before applying the mill, but I'm not sure what that means when dealing with 20' long oak pieces of any size.

I'll be working by myself, and I have rope, a dodge dakota, a maasdam, and a couple pulleys. How would you handle it?

Offline doc henderson

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 2254
  • Age: 59
  • Location: Hutchinson, Ks
  • Gender: Male
  • Evil Prevails when Good Men Standby and Do Nothing
    • Share Post
Re: How Do You Turn Logs - Alaskan Mill
« Reply #1 on: October 08, 2019, 07:36:42 PM »
if it is for general woodworking, some would say it is not worth it to have 20 foot boards.  if for trim or flooring then maybe.  if you are cutting 4/4 boards for 3/4 inch finished, might be good to find a band mill buddy in your area.  chainsaw in big oak sounds "hard".  christian school around the corner took down an oak.  i asked about it and it was already claimed.  the guy came each night around 5 after work and he got 1 board done each day.  next big oak that came sown, no one else wanted it so I got it! ;)  what are your plans for the wood?  If straight, you should be able to get a 20 x 20 inch cant.  if your kerf is 1/4 inch, you will loose a 1 inch board every four cuts.
timberking B 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.

Online lxskllr

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 1465
  • Age: 50
  • Location: MD USA
  • Gender: Male
  • dummy with saw
    • Share Post
Re: How Do You Turn Logs - Alaskan Mill
« Reply #2 on: October 08, 2019, 07:47:04 PM »
Trailer boards are for the 20' lengths. After that, I don't know. Maybe make replacement boards for the horse stalls? I'm just winging it at this point. Trailer boards are the only firm goal.

I've been playing with the ash I took down in the spring when the weather's reasonable to be outside(read very little), and only last week the boss asked about making horse stall boards out of it. Made the job a lot harder since I already had a bunch cut at arbitrary thicknesses. I remilled my 2" slabs, and I think I'm gonna semifreehand rip them to width. Perhaps tacking a 2x4 to the top, and using it as a guide for my little echo. That way I'll only have to control attitude, and the width should be fairly regular. Good enough for barn work anyway.

Offline doc henderson

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 2254
  • Age: 59
  • Location: Hutchinson, Ks
  • Gender: Male
  • Evil Prevails when Good Men Standby and Do Nothing
    • Share Post
Re: How Do You Turn Logs - Alaskan Mill
« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2019, 07:52:04 PM »
so 6/4 and left rough, or will they be planed.?  you could cut width with a guide and a heavy duty skill saw.  or make two cants, 10 x 20 then make your boards.  
timberking B 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.

Online WV Sawmiller

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 6614
  • Age: 66
  • Location: Hinton WV
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
    • Green's Sawmill Services
Re: How Do You Turn Logs - Alaskan Mill
« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2019, 07:58:02 PM »
   First - I have never used a CSM so keep that in mind when you read my suggestion.

Why turn the log/cant? I'd suggest cutting or rolling the log on to some other logs for dunnage to keep it off the ground and sort of level it a bit. I'd turn it with a cant hook or wrap a chain around it and parbukle it till I had the face up I wanted to saw then I'd chock it good there and start sawing till I finished cutting my boards. I had a big walnut sawed on a slabber and that is basically what he did. I assumed that was pretty much standard procedure. You can edge the flitches into boards with a circular saw and a straight edge after cut (like Doc suggests above).

   Good luck.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2009 4wd Dodge PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Sthil 440 & 441, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once"

Offline doc henderson

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 2254
  • Age: 59
  • Location: Hutchinson, Ks
  • Gender: Male
  • Evil Prevails when Good Men Standby and Do Nothing
    • Share Post
Re: How Do You Turn Logs - Alaskan Mill
« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2019, 08:02:04 PM »
for turning, I would at least try to put it on dunage.  maybe other logs to keep yours out of the dirt and make it easier to turn.  could wrap a chain around a few turns and pull it with your truck or a winch (not your wife).  after a few cuts it will have flat surfaces for the bottoms.  
timberking B 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.

Offline Hilltop366

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 2477
  • Location: Nova Scotia
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: How Do You Turn Logs - Alaskan Mill
« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2019, 08:35:23 PM »

For edging using a 2x for a guide I was wondering if you could add a bumper guide to the side of your bar so you can rub the bumper along the 2x with out cutting it.

Perhaps a strong thin magnet or temporarily super glue or hot glue a piece of wood to the side of the bar?

Online lxskllr

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 1465
  • Age: 50
  • Location: MD USA
  • Gender: Male
  • dummy with saw
    • Share Post
Re: How Do You Turn Logs - Alaskan Mill
« Reply #7 on: October 08, 2019, 08:51:14 PM »
Why turn the log/cant?
With the caveat that most of my knowledge comes from reading online, SOP is get your guide rails on top of the log, and slab off the top. That gives you a flat surface, and you then put your mill on that. For live edge, you just start slabbing. For dimensional lumber, you then slab off the bottom, or some fraction thereof if your log is bigger than your mill. That gives you two flat surfaces. You then turn the log 90 and repeat, though the bottom can be omitted from this step. That gives you 3+ flat sides. You take your boards off of that, then clamp them edge up to finish making the lumber.

The ash I'm currently playing with is heavy, but not oak heavy. That's what has me concerned. Say an average diameter of 26" and 20' long. That's what; 20k-30k pounds? I didn't consider dropping the tree on other logs. That would ease movement a bit. but I'll have to transport the wood to the falling site. The tree I'm especially interested in is standing dead, and more or less by itself. The other possibilities are also dead, but have more trees around them. In any case, I don't want to remove live trees unless it makes sense for them to go. I guess I really need to firm up a plan of attack. I could drop a lower priority dead tree, hack it up into somewhat manageable pieces, then use it as a landing mat for the priority tree.

For ripping boards, I'm not sure if I have a circular saw or not. I'd have to look in the basement. The ash is in an inconvenient place for electric. I could transport it to electric, but my boss' circular saw isn't that great, and I won't buy one due to general lack of need. I totally freehanded some rips over the weekend, and it didn't work too bad considering my terrible wood support system. That's what gave me the idea of a 2x4 guide. With that, I think I could have a completely acceptable barn quality board . For the oak, I'd be doing it properly from the start, and using the mill for the boards.


edit:
In reply to Hilltop, what I had in mind was running either the saw body, or the handlebar against the 2x4. Just something to control side to side movement. That would leave axial tilt and roll to my eyeball/steady hand. I don't expect it'll turn out perfect, but I think it'll be pretty good, and sufficient for the intended use.

edit2:
Got a pm pointing me to the log weight calculator. I *really* blew my estimate of the weight. The correct weight is ~4719# per the calculator. Makes me feel a good bit better about the project. That's a good bit of weight, but much more manageable than what was in my head.

Online WV Sawmiller

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 6614
  • Age: 66
  • Location: Hinton WV
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
    • Green's Sawmill Services
Re: How Do You Turn Logs - Alaskan Mill
« Reply #8 on: October 08, 2019, 09:40:46 PM »
SOP is get your guide rails on top of the log, and slab off the top. That gives you a flat surface, and you then put your mill on that. For live edge, you just start slabbing. For dimensional lumber, you then slab off the bottom, or some fraction thereof if your log is bigger than your mill. That gives you two flat surfaces. You then turn the log 90 and repeat, though the bottom can be omitted from this step. That gives you 3+ flat sides. You take your boards off of that, then clamp them edge up to finish making the lumber.

   All this is new to me. I thought you just got a square surface on top then slabbed down. I assumed the dimensional lumber, by which I assume you mean just edged lumber, was edged after cutting. I never knew you slabbed off the bottom.

    I rotate and take the outer slabs off using my band mill so I don't have to edge it later  but I have square side supports for guides. I can rotate 180 degrees using my hydraulics and cut down to the desired thickness of my finished boards (Example a 10" thick cant will yield 1X10 or 2X 10, etc. 

    I can't imagine doing any carpentry work without a 7-1/4" circle saw any more than I can imagine build a shed without a hammer but that is just me. I assume we are not just using different terms for the same tool. ;D
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2009 4wd Dodge PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Sthil 440 & 441, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once"

Online Southside

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 5097
  • Age: 47
  • Location: Wilsons (Dinwiddie County), VA
  • Gender: Male
  • Have a plan to saw every log you meet.
    • Share Post
Re: How Do You Turn Logs - Alaskan Mill
« Reply #9 on: October 08, 2019, 09:43:21 PM »
From my experience 20' brings it's own set of additional issues.  Long cants / beams maintain enough structural support to remain rather straight or have enough clear wood to address structural defects, knots, etc, but try to get 20'+ long lumber to behave or not have a significant knot at 18'6" that causes you to have a shorter than target piece, seems to be a much harder case.  

You will also get a lot more movement during drying with that long lumber.  I am not explaining this correctly and hopefully someone will jump in but when you shorten a board to remove a crook by cutting the crook in half you actually reduce the angle of the crook by a factor of 4, not 2, the opposite is true as lumber gets longer.  I do make some 18'-20' long lumber on request, but the price goes up significantly as does my over cut allowance both in terms of width and # of extra pieces due to the increased loss I will experience.  

Add in the physical requirement of hoisting, moving, stacking, etc 20' lumber and doing it all by hand and I think I would find a way to make 2 -  10' pieces or a combination of 10', 12', and 8' (to keep the joints spaced) for trailer decking and horse stalls work for me.  
Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT Super 70 and LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
Enough cows to ensure there is no spare time.

Offline Dan_Shade

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 5329
  • Age: 45
  • Location: Lexington Park, Maryland
  • Gender: Male
  • I don't want to edit my profile!
    • Share Post
    • Shade Custom Sawing
Re: How Do You Turn Logs - Alaskan Mill
« Reply #10 on: October 08, 2019, 09:53:07 PM »
A high-lift/handyman jack is quite handy in rolling a log over 
Woodmizer LT40HDG25 / Stihl 066 alaskan
lots of dull bands and chains

There's a fine line between turning firewood into beautiful things and beautiful things into firewood.

Online lxskllr

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 1465
  • Age: 50
  • Location: MD USA
  • Gender: Male
  • dummy with saw
    • Share Post
Re: How Do You Turn Logs - Alaskan Mill
« Reply #11 on: October 08, 2019, 09:57:11 PM »
I don't do much woodwork. I've always used handtools in the past. This weekend I used my handsaw for the first time in years after lending it to a friend. It /used to/ cut like a rabid beaver. Not so much now  :^/  I guess I need to try my hand at sharpening it.

The Alaskan mill is just a lark, and a sideline to my main interest in working with trees. I'm inundated with firewood, so I got the mill to see what it was about, and maybe knock out some construction grade lumber. The trailer boards were my justification. Not very cost effective, but it'll give me the opportunity to drop a sizable tree and get something useful out of it. It's been fun too. Kinda cool taking a misshapen lump of wood, and turning it into something that has regular surfaces. I saved a small fork union of the ash, and I might try making into a live edge irregular accessory table. Dunno. We'll see how it goes. I'm just playing, and not taking milling seriously at this point  :^)

Offline doc henderson

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 2254
  • Age: 59
  • Location: Hutchinson, Ks
  • Gender: Male
  • Evil Prevails when Good Men Standby and Do Nothing
    • Share Post
Re: How Do You Turn Logs - Alaskan Mill
« Reply #12 on: October 08, 2019, 09:58:06 PM »
you can just snap a chalk line if rough is ok.  hand held circular saw will cut pretty well to get an edge.  sounds like fun, just wish you were younger.   :D  makes me tired just thinking about it.  have fun.  we are all just throwing out ideas.
timberking B 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.

Online Southside

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 5097
  • Age: 47
  • Location: Wilsons (Dinwiddie County), VA
  • Gender: Male
  • Have a plan to saw every log you meet.
    • Share Post
Re: How Do You Turn Logs - Alaskan Mill
« Reply #13 on: October 08, 2019, 09:59:30 PM »
not taking milling seriously at this point  :^)


Famous last words. :D
Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT Super 70 and LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
Enough cows to ensure there is no spare time.

Online Don P

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 5885
  • Location: Southwestern VA
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
    • Calculator Index
Re: How Do You Turn Logs - Alaskan Mill
« Reply #14 on: October 08, 2019, 10:34:31 PM »
 We were making beams here but the idea is the same. The biggest part of the job is usually outsmarting inanimate objects.

<br
>
 

 

A laborer works with his hands
A craftsman uses his brain and his hands
An artist uses his brain, his hands, and his heart

Online lxskllr

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 1465
  • Age: 50
  • Location: MD USA
  • Gender: Male
  • dummy with saw
    • Share Post
Re: How Do You Turn Logs - Alaskan Mill
« Reply #15 on: October 08, 2019, 10:51:34 PM »
not taking milling seriously at this point  :^)


Famous last words. :D
Yea, I refuse to seriously speculate where I'm gonna end up. So far, it's gone like this ...
"I don't want a chainsaw. My handsaws work fine"
> big wood comes down
"Ugh. I'll never get that done. I guess I need a chainsaw..."
>years pass, then even bigger wood comes down
"I'll need a bigger chainsaw to get this mess cleaned up"
I think Stihl adds crack to their 2stroke oil or something, cause that last saw lead to four more saws, 250' of chain, $800 in climbing gear, $500 in rigging gear, a Granberg, and a bunch of miscellaneous stuff :rollseyes:  At this point, I don't think anything's off the table  :^D


edit:
Forgot the brushcutters. Wasn't sure I wanted one, and now I have two, and one that got stolen.

Offline JoshNZ

  • Full Member x2
  • ***
  • Posts: 155
  • I'm new!
    • Share Post
Re: How Do You Turn Logs - Alaskan Mill
« Reply #16 on: October 09, 2019, 03:07:16 AM »
What about cutting a wee notch in the lower side of the log and putting a bottle jack under it. Just shallow, no further than the waste flitch. Easy if you're just doing the one log

Offline Brad_bb

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 3768
  • Age: 47
  • Location: Joliet, IL and Indy
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: How Do You Turn Logs - Alaskan Mill
« Reply #17 on: October 10, 2019, 07:51:20 AM »
A lot of things going against you here.  

1. I'm assuming you don't have any equipment to move or rotate the log.  That's one of the reasons for an alaskan mill - so you can break down a log into smaller pieces that will allow you get the wood out.

2. An alaskan mill is typically used on large logs where you don't have equipment to move it, so you tend to do all your milling without moving or rotating the log.  For example you want to cut 2x trailer decking, so you slab the log into 2x slabs and then rip the slabs into boards, preferably with a good circ saw using something as a guide.  To do so, you'd have to get each slab onto a set of saw horses preferably.  But even those slabs will be awfully heavy at 20'.  Use leverage ( a bar of some kind) and a buddy or two.  If no access to electric, you could cut with a Prazi beam saw (a fixture to turn a chainsaw into a vertical straight cutting saw.  You'll be doing a lot of work for trailer boards here, but it can be done. 

Since you are going to be installing the trailer decking green, that removes the issue of drying a 20' stick.  If you were making trim or flooring I would have advised against cutting 20' long.  Oak especially can have a mind of it's own and you'd likely get warpage/bowing/crowning with a 20' stick.
But with a green trailer deck board, you're holding it in place with bolts while it dries on the deck, so not a big deal.

If you were using the wood for anything else, I would have advised to cut the log shorter.  I have come to standardize my board lengths at 8 foot.  Ok sometimes I'll let a 9' log stay 9'.  Any longer than that, and it get difficult and heavy handling it when it 's hardwood.  For flooring or horse stall boards, 8' is plenty long enough.  

Alaskan milling is very hard work.  I tend to use it to 1. make slabs for tables, and 2. to break down a big long log that I'm making a tie beam out of down to a size that I can move with equipment or log arches.  Making boards is a lot more work with an Alaskan versus a Bandmill. And since I have a bandmill too, I do all board work on the bandmill.
Anything someone can design, I can sure figure out how to fix!
If I say it\\\\\\\'s going to take so long, multiply that by at least 3!

Offline mredden

  • Full Member x2
  • ***
  • Posts: 105
  • Location: Southwest Georgia (US)
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm new!
    • Share Post
Re: How Do You Turn Logs - Alaskan Mill
« Reply #18 on: October 10, 2019, 01:35:05 PM »
I use a  cant hook that will grip up to about 36" and a 3 ton floor jack and put treated 4x4s (I actually use  4' pieces of cedar logs) under each end until I'm ready to start cutting - which could be weeks or months. Logs roll easy on top of 4x4s. Termites and other ground critters are a problem here pretty much year round. A log will roll the length of your 4x4s pretty easy if you have done a half-decent de-limbing job. You can even spin the log 90 degrees with a well-thought-out grid of 4x4s.

When I'm ready to mill, I jack up the end that will place the wind at my back to about 19 inches (maximum height for MY floor jack) then roll a 16" or so short log/limb cut under that end. Cut down hill without the wind in your face.

If you don't have one already, new floor jacks are under $100.00 with a couple of jackstands, and are, of course, very useful for other applications like rotating your tires. Good cant hook is a bit more

Every now and then I parbuckle if I'm moving a log more than 8 feet or uphill. I still try to keep them on 4x4s though.

a 3 ton floor jack will (theoretically and maybe actually) lift a 20' northern red oak that is 32 inches on one end and 28 inches on the other. The 32" x 12 ft (bitternut) pecan/hickory I just finished was no problem to move at all.


Share via delicious Share via digg Share via facebook Share via linkedin Share via pinterest Share via reddit Share via stumble Share via tumblr Share via twitter

xx
Know any Lucas Mill or other alaskan mill operators in N. GA?

Started by HeartwoodBurl on Sawmills and Milling

2 Replies
545 Views
Last post February 17, 2014, 06:33:43 AM
by Seaman
xx
Trouble with Alaskan Mill, especially Mini Mill

Started by danf26 on Sawmills and Milling

25 Replies
21276 Views
Last post April 01, 2011, 08:31:45 PM
by danf26
xx
Saw for Alaskan Saw Mill

Started by thiggy on Chainsaws

12 Replies
2858 Views
Last post October 13, 2005, 04:24:00 AM
by D Martin
xx
48 Alaskan Saw Mill

Started by j.lombara on Forestry and Logging

6 Replies
915 Views
Last post July 04, 2015, 08:21:59 PM
by NH-Murph
 


Powered by EzPortal