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Author Topic: HM126 Drive Belt Tension  (Read 664 times)

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Offline mtoo747

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Re: HM126 Drive Belt Tension
« Reply #20 on: November 19, 2019, 10:24:06 PM »
from your initial post you mention the vibration started after you replaced the bearings in your band wheel?  Did you get that bearing seated properly if not that could be causing your wobble

Someone mentioned checking your tension after a cut..i second that thought...your tension springs could be bad..WM should easily send you new ones if youve only had the mill 6 months
Yes, noticed vibration after replacing the drive belt, follower belt and both bandwheel bearings. The vibration has gone down a lot, I think back to normal. But that came from re seating the follower belt, it was kinda sitting in there a little wanky.
Hi John, You said that you had replaced the bandwheel bearings or was it the blade guide bearings? I would be very surprised if the bandwheel bearings would have needed replacement with this few hours on the machine but if you did replace them i would be sure, as someone else suggested, that they are correctly seated. Also sounds like you have changed your drive side tracking even though it should have been set from the factory. I haven't touched mine so i can't advise you on that and will leave that to the woodland mills techs. They are quite good. I did have some vibration problems that i tracked down to the follow wheel belt (the red one) not being seated properly. I put a travel dial type indicator on the belt (without a blade installed) and spun the wheel and found i had about .060" of run-out. After reseating the belt by sticking a screwdriver all the way under the belt and working it all the way around the wheel a couple of times that my run-out was about .010". Also make sure that you are getting 100% of full throttle, the cable tends to stretch and needs to be adjusted from time to time. These single cylinder engines tend to vibrate more when run at less than full throttle. 
Hope some of this helps. 
mike

Offline Johnkeller1979

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Re: HM126 Drive Belt Tension
« Reply #21 on: November 19, 2019, 10:38:38 PM »
from your initial post you mention the vibration started after you replaced the bearings in your band wheel?  Did you get that bearing seated properly if not that could be causing your wobble

Someone mentioned checking your tension after a cut..i second that thought...your tension springs could be bad..WM should easily send you new ones if youve only had the mill 6 months
Yes, noticed vibration after replacing the drive belt, follower belt and both bandwheel bearings. The vibration has gone down a lot, I think back to normal. But that came from re seating the follower belt, it was kinda sitting in there a little wanky.
Hi John, You said that you had replaced the bandwheel bearings or was it the blade guide bearings? I would be very surprised if the bandwheel bearings would have needed replacement with this few hours on the machine but if you did replace them i would be sure, as someone else suggested, that they are correctly seated. Also sounds like you have changed your drive side tracking even though it should have been set from the factory. I haven't touched mine so i can't advise you on that and will leave that to the woodland mills techs. They are quite good. I did have some vibration problems that i tracked down to the follow wheel belt (the red one) not being seated properly. I put a travel dial type indicator on the belt (without a blade installed) and spun the wheel and found i had about .060" of run-out. After reseating the belt by sticking a screwdriver all the way under the belt and working it all the way around the wheel a couple of times that my run-out was about .010". Also make sure that you are getting 100% of full throttle, the cable tends to stretch and needs to be adjusted from time to time. These single cylinder engines tend to vibrate more when run at less than full throttle.
Hope some of this helps.
mike
Hey Mike, thank you for the info, I can use all the help I can get here. 
I did make sure the bearings were seated, but I'll double check. That makes sense about the throttle, I'll check that too. I did change the drive side, but it was off when I got it. The drive side never did track to 3/8. It came from the factory tracking at almost 1/4". I've re seated the follower belt a few times now, it looks nice and even. I'm going to run through it all again tomorrow with everyone's suggestions. It's going to work! Haha
HM 126 Learning..

Online btulloh

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Re: HM126 Drive Belt Tension
« Reply #22 on: November 20, 2019, 09:00:25 AM »
Good info from @mtoo747 , especially the throttle cable.  Mine stretched also early on.  It's easy to miss but easy to check and correct.

I'm also surprised your wheel bearings needed replacement so quickly, but it is what it is. 

Reading some other threads about belts, it sounds like the belts from Woodmizer are a better breed of cat.  I'm going to try some.  All the belts I've tried from various sources don't seem to be as good as what they are describing.

You have the right attitude: "It's going to work!". And it will.  Just a little fiddling required to get there.    My experience with the HM126 has been just like the vertical bandsaws in my shop.  Adjust and re-adjust until it runs right, then things work well from then on.

I'm curious about what you said measuring the tilt and alignment of the wheels:  Were they under full tension when you were checking them?  Your results in the vertical and horizontal checks sound like things are still pretty far out.  

I finally went and checked my manual this morning.  The reference to the left side (drive side) vertical adjustments only talk about loosening the bolts slightly to allow the shaft to move during horizontal adjustment.  There is no procedure outlined for checking the vertical tilt and adjusting.  This would mean that it's expected to be correct when you receive it.  I don't remember doing anything initially other than the procedure outlined in the manual for initial tracking adjustment, so mine must have been ok.  Seems like advice from the factory tech is the best course there.

One thing about the overall tracking adjustment though.  The drive side and the follower side do interact and you have to go back and forth.  It's a little tedious because you have take the tension off to adjust.  You can leave the "vertical bolts" slack on the drive side while you're doing this.

At some point in this process, the blade will track ok (staying put and staying on) but the overhang/offset may be slightly different on the drive side and the idler side.  I had to readjust the drive side a little at this point to get the same overhang on the blade.  Then re-adjust the idler side.  After a couple back-and-forths, they were both equal.  Life has been good ever since.

It sounds like yours is pretty far out right now, but it should come into adjustment pretty quick.  The process is a little annoying because of the walking back and forth and the release and re-tension of the blade each time.  

You only have to spin the wheels by hand a couple revs to see how it's tracking.  Good or bad tracking shows up real quick.  

One thing I did early on which really payed off:  I reversed the bolts holding the blade guard in place so the heads were on the inside.  Then I stopped hitting them with my gloved fingers when spinning the wheels.  Maybe that's just me, but life is better with the bolts turned around.

Good luck today.  Stay after it 'til it obeys your wishes!  Once it's right it should be smooth sailing.  

Looking forward to a report on those double-hards after you've got it dialed in.

BT  
HM126

Offline Johnkeller1979

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Re: HM126 Drive Belt Tension
« Reply #23 on: November 20, 2019, 08:13:41 PM »
Good info from @mtoo747 , especially the throttle cable.  Mine stretched also early on.  It's easy to miss but easy to check and correct.

I'm also surprised your wheel bearings needed replacement so quickly, but it is what it is.

Reading some other threads about belts, it sounds like the belts from Woodmizer are a better breed of cat.  I'm going to try some.  All the belts I've tried from various sources don't seem to be as good as what they are describing.

You have the right attitude: "It's going to work!". And it will.  Just a little fiddling required to get there.    My experience with the HM126 has been just like the vertical bandsaws in my shop.  Adjust and re-adjust until it runs right, then things work well from then on.

I'm curious about what you said measuring the tilt and alignment of the wheels:  Were they under full tension when you were checking them?  Your results in the vertical and horizontal checks sound like things are still pretty far out.  

I finally went and checked my manual this morning.  The reference to the left side (drive side) vertical adjustments only talk about loosening the bolts slightly to allow the shaft to move during horizontal adjustment.  There is no procedure outlined for checking the vertical tilt and adjusting.  This would mean that it's expected to be correct when you receive it.  I don't remember doing anything initially other than the procedure outlined in the manual for initial tracking adjustment, so mine must have been ok.  Seems like advice from the factory tech is the best course there.

One thing about the overall tracking adjustment though.  The drive side and the follower side do interact and you have to go back and forth.  It's a little tedious because you have take the tension off to adjust.  You can leave the "vertical bolts" slack on the drive side while you're doing this.

At some point in this process, the blade will track ok (staying put and staying on) but the overhang/offset may be slightly different on the drive side and the idler side.  I had to readjust the drive side a little at this point to get the same overhang on the blade.  Then re-adjust the idler side.  After a couple back-and-forths, they were both equal.  Life has been good ever since.

It sounds like yours is pretty far out right now, but it should come into adjustment pretty quick.  The process is a little annoying because of the walking back and forth and the release and re-tension of the blade each time.  

You only have to spin the wheels by hand a couple revs to see how it's tracking.  Good or bad tracking shows up real quick.  

One thing I did early on which really payed off:  I reversed the bolts holding the blade guard in place so the heads were on the inside.  Then I stopped hitting them with my gloved fingers when spinning the wheels.  Maybe that's just me, but life is better with the bolts turned around.

Good luck today.  Stay after it 'til it obeys your wishes!  Once it's right it should be smooth sailing.  

Looking forward to a report on those double-hards after you've got it dialed in.

BT  
So the throttle cable checked out fine, it does indeed extend fully when the hand control is completely engaged. 
I really dont think I needed to replace the bearings.. although it seemed at the time I wanted to rule out any odd little things first. But yeah, more than likely, a waste of time.
I went out today, flag in one hand, skepticism in the other.. I figured the vertical alignment of the two pulleys had to be important, so I adjusted the vertical on the drive to match the follower and it made a big difference. I got it tracking to hardly any swaying (which had become a new issue) haha. Noticed again though at full throttle that there was still some vibration, seemed more than usual, although I cant seem to remember what usual was.. its been a while since Ive cut anything and didnt do much cutting when it was cutting. 
So called wood land again, they still say the alignment of the clutch with the face of the drive pulley are culprits in the blade popping and vibrations. So it looks like in order to get the clutch pulley aligned the way they want it, Ill have to put smaller bolts the engine mount so it will slide back more. 
Im not even sure at this point if there's any suggestions left or I just have to keep going over things until something hits me, hopefully not a blade. 
 
HM 126 Learning..

Offline mtoo747

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Re: HM126 Drive Belt Tension
« Reply #24 on: November 20, 2019, 09:17:59 PM »
John, are you using a torque wrench when you set your band tension to 25 ft/lbs? I was using an old school beam type when i first got my mill last fall and couldn't really get consistent results so i finally bought an inexpensive click type (like $30) and have much more confidence in the consistency of my band tension now. 
How long have you had your mill and did it ever run well for you? I know the frustration you are having but keep after it and when it does all come together it will be worthwhile and a lot of fun.
mike

Offline Johnkeller1979

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Re: HM126 Drive Belt Tension
« Reply #25 on: November 20, 2019, 09:34:57 PM »
John, are you using a torque wrench when you set your band tension to 25 ft/lbs? I was using an old school beam type when i first got my mill last fall and couldn't really get consistent results so i finally bought an inexpensive click type (like $30) and have much more confidence in the consistency of my band tension now.
How long have you had your mill and did it ever run well for you? I know the frustration you are having but keep after it and when it does all come together it will be worthwhile and a lot of fun.
mike
Hey Mike, yes sir. Ive always tensioned with a torque wrench. 
I've had the mill for about 6 months, I've sawed about 10 logs. It ran good when I first set it up. Then slowly over time it's gotten worse. So I have hopes and it makes sense that I'm just not quite back where it needs to be  notand it's like a lemon or whatever. 
Just hit some road blocks along the way. Might be my personality, but I kinda dig it that in learning how every little part of it works, I think it's valuable information for the future. 
And thanks! 
HM 126 Learning..

Online btulloh

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Re: HM126 Drive Belt Tension
« Reply #26 on: November 20, 2019, 11:23:27 PM »
I just got home and read the latest additions. Im getting a good idea whats going on now.  I have a few questions and a long reply, but I have to add that in the morning when I fire up the computer. (Im on an iPad now and typing on it is too slow.). Plus Im beat. Dont make a move until I can get back to this in the morning. Definitely dont switch out those bolts on the engine mount. That would put us further down the rabbit hole.

Ill be back in the a.m.  

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

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Re: HM126 Drive Belt Tension
« Reply #27 on: November 21, 2019, 09:01:14 AM »
Ok, back at it now . . .

First a couple questions:

- The saw was aligned and sawing fine initially and then things started going downhill, right?

- You said you've sawed 10 logs - how big and what kind?  How many bd ft would you say you sawed?

- how many blades did you go through to saw the 10 logs?

- The alignment an tracking were ok originally, but not after you replaced the wheel bearings?

HM126

Online btulloh

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Re: HM126 Drive Belt Tension
« Reply #28 on: November 21, 2019, 09:14:08 AM »
If it was OK and then something changed and the alignment is off now, so lets dig into what changed.  After replacing the wheel bearings, you started to have alignment issues and vibration, if I read everything correctly.  That tells me to look at the wheels and bearings and see what's different or got missed.

I looked at the exploded view in the manual.  There are no washers or shims behind the wheels, so that's not the problem.  I see that the bearing retainer ring faces OUT.  Did the wheels get reinstalled with the retainer ring facing IN?  That would change the offset and put things out of alignment for sure.

The motor mount was OK before, so it should be OK now.  Using smaller bolts so you can move it back would be correcting a problem that started somewhere else.  It would also make it hard to keep the engine from skewing when tensioning the drive belt.  Those should be a fairly tight fit both on the engine bosses and the mounting plate.  That keeps things aligned when tensioning.  For the record, I haven't any issues with the engine skewing when putting tension on the drive belt.  It stays in alignment pretty well.  

Things happen and two different mills can act a bit differently, but I've sawed several hundred logs up to 26" and haven't had any bearing issues or anything other than normal maintenance to keep up with.  It seems unusual that you would run into bearing issues that early on.

I suspect that the degradation in sawing performance was from a dull blade
HM126

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Re: HM126 Drive Belt Tension
« Reply #29 on: November 21, 2019, 09:48:16 AM »
to continue . . . (the keyboard stopped working - restart)

So anyway, blade starts dulling, working harder, drive belt stretches a little due to normal break-in, cut quality degrades . . .  It would be normal with a brand new saw for the belt to stretch and maybe initial alignment drift a little.  Then it's time t0 re-tension the belt and touch up the alignment.  Does any of this sound about right?

I'm curious to see what you were sawing and how far you pushed your blade.  I rarely can get more than 200 bd ft out of a blade.  These saws run a little lower band speed and are bit under-powered, but that's the nature of things.  Mine is only 9.5 hp - the bigger engine was not available at the time.  I accept the trade offs that come with buying the lower end saw. That means we can't get as many bd ft as the bigger saws with the 25-30-35 hp engines.  Also we're cutting bark usually, and the bark has trapped dirt etc even if the logs weren't skidded.  That takes the sharp out pretty quick.  A tree growing for 50, 60, 70 years or so gets a lot of wind-blown dirt embedded in the bark, and this is quite abrasive.  If the logs were skidded and picked up dirt or mud, even worse.  So sawing into bark drags the abrasive dirt through the cut and dulls the band quickly.  

 - - got off into the bark thing there.  Maybe preaching to the choir.  Sorry if this is old news.

On checking the throttle cable:  The easiest way to make sure it's still correct is to grab the handle and go full throttle, then reach over and try to increase the throttle lever on the engine.  If it picks up speed, the cable has stretched a little.  (Just making sure - we can't afford to lose any rpm's.)

 

HM126

Offline Johnkeller1979

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Re: HM126 Drive Belt Tension
« Reply #30 on: November 21, 2019, 10:35:11 AM »
Ok, back at it now . . .

First a couple questions:

- The saw was aligned and sawing fine initially and then things started going downhill, right?

- You said you've sawed 10 logs - how big and what kind?  How many bd ft would you say you sawed?

- how many blades did you go through to saw the 10 logs?

- The alignment an tracking were ok originally, but not after you replaced the wheel bearings?
I really appreciate this! 
The saw really did run great when I first set it up, followed all the procedures and it worked just as it was supposed to. I know I pushed the blades past their limit. This might of caused alot of stress to the machine. Some of the logs were fairly good sized, cottonwood, pines, ash - I get most of my logs from the tree dump here in Nebraska (home of Arbor Day, home of worlds largest man made forest, but not too many trees available haha.) And probably alot of dirt and sand on them. 
And no, the tracking was a mess before the bearings, I thought the bearings were fine, but at the time I had some advice about switching out the bearings and figured the diesel I was using that had deteriorated the belt, beyond use, might have effected the bearings too. But the bearings are seated and snap washer is facing out. I honestly felt really confident that the belt being worn down to the metal on the bandwheel was the problem, but new belt(s), and still problems, Im just not sure if its the same exact problem. I dont think I looked at things as close as I am now back when I thought it was the belt. 
Thats a really good point on why I would need to change the mount if it worked before.. Unless it never was lined up properly from the factory, maybe thats part of why the original belt wore out in such a short amount of time? Partly? 
Im going to head out there and look at things again. 
HM 126 Learning..

Offline Johnkeller1979

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Re: HM126 Drive Belt Tension
« Reply #31 on: November 21, 2019, 06:28:41 PM »
Okay, so I think im getting closer! 
Vibration was indeed from the throttle, thought it was wide open, but the stop-set screw was in a little too far, Im guessing it simply vibrated out of place, or maybe the motor just wanted to be running at a bit higher rpm due to the colder weather. 

I got everything tracking really well, the belt aligned really nice and with the old blade on, it just hummed like a bee! 

I made a cut just to see what she would do and I could feel the blade was really dull, I think it decided to pop off only because it pushed it back off the wheel. 

So I got my new double hard blades today and ran back out to see how they would react with the machine. I noticed while putting them on that they are quite a bit larger than the lennox. Now I cant get them tracked, just a minor adjustment one way or the other sends them too far forward or backwards. 

I didnt have much time to investigate, but just wanted to say thank you so very much to everyone that helped get my machine this far, I think its right where it needs to be just need to get the new blade situation figured out. 

A many thanks again!!! 
HM 126 Learning..


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