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Author Topic: Questions on splices  (Read 2487 times)

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Offline Doc

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Questions on splices
« on: April 08, 2005, 01:48:49 PM »
I have read about two different types of timber splices. One that is an angular cut and wedged tight, and the other is a bladed style splice that resembles more of a tusk tenon withthe sides open.

What are the drawbacks to using either of these?

Doc

Offline Jim Haslip

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Re: Questions on splices
« Reply #1 on: April 08, 2005, 02:17:19 PM »
Application is critical to answer for this question.

Posts?
Wall plates?
Tension joinery?
Scarfing Sill Plates?

Each are handled differently....

Look here: http://www.tfguild.org/joinery/joinery.html  to start with.

Or here for Scarf Joints specifically: http://www.tfguild.org/joinery/part6.pdf 

Good question, by the way...

Offline Doc

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Re: Questions on splices
« Reply #2 on: April 11, 2005, 03:41:19 PM »
Lets be specific then. Lets say I have a summerbeam to splice. Is there a preferred splice to use? The wedged splice looks like it works out pretty well, but somehow there doesn't appear to be a whole lot of fault tolerance designed into that if you get your measurements off a bit with the knee brace arrangement.

I am just being curious here, but I am kindof curious to know what you guys who have done this stuff think. I understand up front that the preferred method is to have a solid beam for the span, but if you don't have it available which splice are you going to use to do the job?

Doc

Offline beetle

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Re: Questions on splices
« Reply #3 on: April 11, 2005, 03:56:33 PM »
The splayed scarf will give you better shear resistance, as far as "fault tolerance" cut and fit the scarf joint then proceed to lay out and cut all other joints.
Too many hobbies...not enough time.

Offline Jim_Rogers

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Re: Questions on splices
« Reply #4 on: April 11, 2005, 04:14:45 PM »
The first solution is to not design a summer beam that needs a scarf joint.

Summer beams usually only span one room, there should be no need for a scarf joint in a summer beam.
And you only need a summer beam when you can't get floor joists long enough to span the room or a floor joist tall enough to support the load of the room above. Usually not a problem with today's lumber supply.

Small joists used with and connected to summer beams (as was the rule in colonial times) won't meet today's floor load codes.

Correct design and load paths from the roof, and floors to the foundation will eliminate the need for long spans and scarf jointed summer beams.

You're spinning your wheels wondering why we can't build a ladder to the moon..........

Get down to earth.....

Jim Rogers
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
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Offline Doc

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Re: Questions on splices
« Reply #5 on: April 11, 2005, 05:16:49 PM »
Jeez Jim, I don't wanna go to the moon! I have a hard enough time down here on earth!

I don't think I called off the right beam name, but I just asked as I came across the joinery chapter in one of the books, and was wondering which joint would be proper in a given situation....wrong beam for sure.

I don't figure it would be that hard to come up with a 20' beam. I can see trees all over that....in my unexperienced position......should yield a beam long enough to span a distance of at least that if not longer. Looking at a beam in the Timberking stuff I just got I was curious as to how long a beam run could be made without a supporting post and not run into sag problems or an exceptionally heavy beam to try to place.

Here is why I am asking, and I already know I won't be sawing many....if any....beams this long. the brochure stuff has a pic of one of their small mills cutting out a beam something like 50' long (really large and long beam). Now why you would need to have a beam this long is beyond me, but this guy cut one. Now with the mill set up to cut a beam that long you can imagine that the bed of the mill had been extended to the next continent. In order to build a saw shed that would make moving in and out a beam that long you would (in my mind) have to have one open side the length of the mill. Now how can you do that without a supporting beam there somewhere in the middle of the run? I know you aren't going to be sawing alot of these, and not likely that you would leave the mill set up to mill a beam like that all the time, but I was curious. this is what made me ask about the use of splices, and why/where would you use them.

Doc


Offline Jim_Rogers

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Re: Questions on splices
« Reply #6 on: April 11, 2005, 05:51:20 PM »
One solid piece of wood is stronger than two jointed together end to end.

Recently at the Ohio conference, during the barn tour, we saw "plates" that were 56' long. And some pretty impressive sills also.

Years ago, the guild dis-assembled and re-assembled a barn that hand 38' tie beams and 36' plates.

Barns today can be made with long beams, if they are available.

They are not necessarily un-supported. Some are supported in many spots.

There are many ways to move timbers and logs. Rollers come to mine right away.

End loading is another way that logs are moved to the sawmill and beams are taken away. Some long mills have tracks that go outside the building so that the carriage can move outside load the log and then move inside to be milled. Them move outside to remove the timber. (For understanding end loading click HERE for link to story in the Knowledge base about moving logs with logging tongs by end loading).

Other saw sheds have overhead cranes set up to carry the log in and out.

There are many different ways to accomplish these things as there are men who want to cut long beams.

It's ok to wonder.....

Jim Rogers

It's like the kid out fishing in a boat with his father.

He asked his father: "Dad what makes the sky blue?"
The father says: "Gee son, I don't know.
The boy asked: "Dad, how can fish breath underwater?"
The father says: "Well, I'm not really sure."
The boy asked: "Dad, why can't we see the stars during the daytime?"
The father says: "You've got me again with that one."
The boy asked: "Dad, do you mind me asking you all these questions?"
The father says: "No, not at all. How else are you going to learn!"
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

Offline Doc

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Re: Questions on splices
« Reply #7 on: April 11, 2005, 05:57:25 PM »
Thanks Dad! ;D ;D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

Doc


Offline Don P

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Re: Questions on splices
« Reply #8 on: April 11, 2005, 08:09:17 PM »
This was a winter beam we set a few weeks ago. It was winter and the cherry picker couldn't get around to that side of the house. We backed the trailer up to the back porch, covered everything with sheets of OSB and rolled the 20' 10x10's in on scrap pvc pipe. Since these were decorative I had already framed a conventional 2x10 roof with a 2x12 ridge. We posted with 2x4's to the ridge and hoisted from it.



The company that made these is capable of milling 40 footers, they were S4S and dead square  8)

They also have timbers and logs that they vertically laminate out of several species of KD 2x stock, from white pine to white oak. I was talking to one of the millwork guys there, they sent out a laminated timberframe recently. The lengths on one of those could be about whatever you could transport.
A laborer works with his hands
A craftsman uses his brain and his hands
An artist uses his brain, his hands, and his heart

Offline Jim_Rogers

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Re: Questions on splices
« Reply #9 on: April 12, 2005, 08:59:58 AM »
Never heard of a "Winter" beam before?  :D
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension


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