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Author Topic: Mixed species frame  (Read 2383 times)

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Offline Zeke

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Mixed species frame
« on: April 28, 2005, 11:36:32 AM »
I am currently starting to get prices on oak beams S4S. The company charges one price for mixed oaks. Then it charges an upcharge of 18% for Red oak only and 27% for white oak only. Now do you think it is worth the cost to use only one species? For my garage I've already decided that it isn't worth the cost. However, I'm not sure about the house.

Thanks as always,
Zeke

Offline beenthere

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Re: Mixed species frame
« Reply #1 on: April 28, 2005, 02:15:56 PM »
The oaks fall into two groups (mainly), white oak group and red oak group. Are you understanding that the specific Red oak would be like Northern red oak, or instead just be the oaks in the red oak group (and likewise for the white oak)?

From your description, it sounds like a marketing plan, and the seller getting more money if the two groups are sorted.

The oaks in each group can not be separated microscopically, so I would think they wouldn't show differently in your house beams. Now, what will show is different quality (grades), and different colors and hues. Poorer quality oak logs will have more knots and other characters in the beams.

I'd suggest getting into some timber frames where the mixed oaks are used, and some where just the red oaks and just the white oaks are used, to see if there is a good reason to sort them and pay the higher price. 
south central Wisconsin
 It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Offline Greg

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Re: Mixed species frame
« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2005, 10:51:09 AM »
Hey Zeke,

I say buy them mixed, save a few $$$

Then - ask them if they'll label the white - and use up the white oak first for all your sill plates, then the red oak and remaining white for posts, top plates, and other members.

White oak is very rot resistant, red oak is not.

Structural characteristics between white vs red is very similar, both very heavy and very strong.

Visually I don't think there will be a huge difference...

I know the mill you are talking about. Too bad they are so far from me ;-(

Greg

Offline Zeke

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Re: Mixed species frame
« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2005, 11:11:28 AM »
The mill is about 150 miles from me. I'm in Belpre, OH and the mill is in Loudonville, OH. So, there will be some cost involed in shipping. However, the BF cost is only a couple cents higher than what I can get locally unplaned.  The man I talked to said shipping typically runs between $2 and $2.50 per mile.

I've decided to put off the garage for now and put a 24'x24' additon on my current home. I'm also going to order enough timbers to build a couple of garden sheds. I figure I should order as much as I can at one time to help spread the cost of shipping out.  I've decide to go with the mixed oak for now. When I build the house that my wife and I want, I may spend the extra money on just red or white oak. Of course, I may decide later that it isn't worth the cost.

Zeke

Offline Greg

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Re: Mixed species frame
« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2005, 11:33:57 AM »
Zeke,

If you're going to be building the frame this spring/summer, be sure to keep the those timbers out of the sun!

In fact, I've experimented with putting end sealer on all my joinery, since my building will go up very slowly, and I want to minimize movement in the beams until its all locked into place.

I've found especially deep mortises will really alllow rapid drying from the core, and I've gotten some wicked bad checks in some tulip poplar cut down just last fall, right along where the mortises are cut. Try to get some pics out...

Greg

Offline Zeke

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Re: Mixed species frame
« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2005, 12:31:18 PM »
Thanks, for the advice. I try to keep a gallon of engrain sealer around anyway  and I'll make sure I seal the ends when I get the timbers. I'm also planning on errecting a tent of some sort over the timbers to keep them out of the sun. Of course, I could probably set them next to the house and they wouldn't see sunlight untill the leaves fall. I'm also going to make sure the timbers are stacked and stickered when I get them.

I wonder if it would be a good Idea to seal the mortices once they are cut? I would think it would help to seal the inside of the mortice since endgrain is being expossed when the motice is cut.

Zeke

Offline beetle

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Re: Mixed species frame
« Reply #6 on: May 02, 2005, 07:33:12 PM »
In addition to sealing the ends upon delivery I apply a good coat of a wax based sealer to all joints/mortises cut. I do this at the end of each work day.
I have some joints that have been cut a year ago and they look like I just cut them.
Too many hobbies...not enough time.

Offline TN_man

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Re: Mixed species frame
« Reply #7 on: May 03, 2005, 03:13:59 AM »
That is some good advice there Beetle. I have found that my worst checks and spilts start right at my mortise and tenons. I will have to do that. ;)
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Offline Greg

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Re: Mixed species frame
« Reply #8 on: May 03, 2005, 11:41:29 AM »
That is some good advice there Beetle. I have found that my worst checks and spilts start right at my mortise and tenons. I will have to do that. ;)

Now you tell me  ::)

This confirms what I've been thinking, thanks guys.

Greg


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