The Forestry Forum is sponsored in part by:

iDRY Vacuum Kilns


Forestry Forum
Sponsored by:


TimberKing Sawmills



Toll Free 1-800-582-0470

LogRite Tools



Norwood Industries Inc.




Your source for Portable Sawmills, Edgers, Resaws, Sharpeners, Setters, Bandsaw Blades and Sawmill Parts

EZ Boardwalk Sawmills. More Saw For Less Money!

STIHLDealers.com sponsored by Northeast STIHL


Woodland Sawmills

Peterson Swingmills

 KASCO SharpTech WoodMaxx Blades

Turbosawmill

Sawmill Exchange

Michigan Firewood, your BRUTE FORCE Authorized Dealer

FARMA


Baker Products

ECHO-Bearcat

iDRY Wood Lumber Vacuum Drying for everyon

Nyle Kiln Dry Systems




Author Topic: Grade sawing guidelines  (Read 2152 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline flip

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 1369
  • Age: 43
  • Location: Jasper, Indiana
  • Gender: Male
  • The Nations WOOD Capital
    • Share Post
Grade sawing guidelines
« on: October 20, 2005, 11:34:53 AM »
I may be getting in over my head here but here goes.

I'm getting my new edger and mill next week and of course I want to pick up a few jobs so the mill can start paying for itself.  Word has gotten out and now I have a guy wanting me to grade saw walnut and cherry.  He will deliver the logs and pick up the lumber.  Of course he wants to start ASAP and pays by the BF. 

The question is:  Is there much to grade sawing besides centering the heart via toe boards sawing and turning and sawing some more.  The logs have already been graded and sorted, all I have to do is get the most grade out of them.  I really don't want to buy him logs because I skrewed em up.

Flip
Timberking B-20, Hydraulics make me board quick

Offline Fla._Deadheader

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 10366
  • Age: 75
  • Gender: Male
  • Linda Vista, Costa Rica
    • Share Post
Re: Grade sawing guidelines
« Reply #1 on: October 20, 2005, 12:17:48 PM »

 I believe I would have a few of my own logs ready and saw them, before telling ANYONE I am in business.

  What about having this " Grade " customer stand by, and tell you how he wants his logs sawn ??..  I know I would appreciate a sawyer telling ME he doesn't want to mess up good logs. After a fashion, you will know enough to complete the job, AND have an education on how to do things " his way " ??  Learn from that.

  Sounds like he MAY be a pain, but, it's your call. If you do a bad job, he could put the word out, and you may never be in the sawing business  ::) :)
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Offline beenthere

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 26932
  • Location: Southern Wisconsin, USA
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: Grade sawing guidelines
« Reply #2 on: October 20, 2005, 12:20:28 PM »
FDH has some good suggestions.

From what I have heard, the 'best grade' of a log is near the surface as just under the bark is usually more free of defects (that is if they were grown over with recent 'laid down' wood).

So, sawing the log faces with the defects that you do see on the 'corners' as well as sawing parallel to the bark is probably the best way to get the maximum grade from a log. That is pretty general, but without knowing a lot more, it will help the most. At some point, the log taper will have to be taken out. The decision to do that is weighed against what the center of the log is to become. If a tie or a cant, then that is one thing. If sawing the entire log into lumber, that is another.

Knowing something about the grades of lumber is very helpful as well. Making the decision to turn away from a face before going too deep into an adjacent face and lowering the potential grade of that adjacent face(s) is also important. Not edging the boards will give the customer the most yield of useable cuttings after his lumber is dry. Edging is for selling grade lumber and making it look 'neat', but you lose good wood.

These are a few of the things I've picked up about 'grade' sawing, which I interpret to be 'sawing for the best grade yield' of the log. 

Others will offer better tips to get the most grade too.

Many, many factors enter into the sawing decisions.

I recollect a 'Sawing for Grade' publication by F. Malcolm that you may try to look up. I will see if I can find a reference to it.

It is

grade sawing
south central Wisconsin
 It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Offline flip

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 1369
  • Age: 43
  • Location: Jasper, Indiana
  • Gender: Male
  • The Nations WOOD Capital
    • Share Post
Re: Grade sawing guidelines
« Reply #3 on: October 20, 2005, 01:15:46 PM »
Thanks for the replys.  With my other mill I've busted out about 4mBF and am pretty comfortable keeping my stuff flat and straight.  I didn't know if there were certain margins of error before the board was not up to grade.

Thanks  Flip
Timberking B-20, Hydraulics make me board quick

Offline beenthere

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 26932
  • Location: Southern Wisconsin, USA
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: Grade sawing guidelines
« Reply #4 on: October 20, 2005, 01:31:38 PM »
Yup
Grade of a board seems to be all about 'margins'  and 'error' is one of them.   :)
south central Wisconsin
 It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Offline Ron Wenrich

  • Forester
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 13861
  • Age: 70
  • Location: Jonestown, PA
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: Grade sawing guidelines
« Reply #5 on: October 20, 2005, 05:16:37 PM »
A lot will depend on the grade of the log.  You can't get a lot of upper grade lumber from a low grade log.

The biggest thing is knot placement on your initial cut.  You want to put defects on the edges of the board, where they can be either edged out or graded out.  You are looking at getting the longest clear cutting you can get, not the widest. 

After you get into the log, you will have things come up that will tell you what is behind that board.  Your grade is on the back of the board, in most cases, not necessarily what you're looking at.

There will be deviations in the grain on your side.  That's telling you there is a defect coming up.  You can turn if you like, or you can take a chance, knowing that your board may drop a grade.

You can turn the log many times, but when you come back to a cut face, you should take a shim cut.  Many guys fail to do that.  If the log has sprung, you will get a board that is thick on the end and thin in the middle or thick in the middle and thin on the ends.  That's a miscut.  If it falls below the required thickness, most guys will throw it out.  After awhile, you won't be able to make your volume.

In my area, walnut and cherry ususally saw nicer than what they look.  Just be aware of the grade specs.  A grading short course wouldn't hurt, either.  You can get a grade book from the NHLA.
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Offline Bibbyman

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 11418
  • Age: 69
  • Location: In the middle of things
  • Gender: Male
  • Pro-Sawyer Mary and Bibbyman
    • Share Post
    • Warden Sawmill
Re: Grade sawing guidelines
« Reply #6 on: October 20, 2005, 05:48:48 PM »
Its a shame you dont have some time to ease into grade sawing.  Its really not difficult.  Weve done so much of it (being a Mom and Pop operation) that we could do it without much thought - kind of like driving or most anything else.

Start with doing some homework study the rule book.  Itd be great to take a grading course.  Next thing would be got go help out at a mill that is doing grade sawing and ask a lot of questions until you understand what they are doing and why they are doing it.  The test would be to saw with someone with experience at your elbow reviewing your work.

Like Ron said, you cant get a lot of upper grade from low grade logs.  So maybe there would be a good to start with the low grade logs.  (You may want to explain why youre starting with low grade logs to your customer so he wont be shocked when he sees the tally sheet.)   Even low grade logs will offer a face with higher grade than the other three.  Here is where experience comes in to recognize the better face.

With really good logs there are fewer decisions.   The bigger problem is making sure you dont screw up and make miss-cuts.  Loosing a high grade board because of miss-cut is a bad thing.

I always say,  You cant make an omelet if you dont break some eggs.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

Offline Fla._Deadheader

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 10366
  • Age: 75
  • Gender: Male
  • Linda Vista, Costa Rica
    • Share Post
Re: Grade sawing guidelines
« Reply #7 on: October 20, 2005, 05:54:56 PM »

  This is why I suggested to let the customer tell you what he wants, by standing there a bit. Tell him you are not certain of what he wants. If you don't, you may eat some logs  ::) ::)
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)


Share via delicious Share via digg Share via facebook Share via linkedin Share via pinterest Share via reddit Share via stumble Share via tumblr Share via twitter

xx
Sawing for grade

Started by stumpy on Sawmills and Milling

4 Replies
1776 Views
Last post December 12, 2004, 07:53:13 PM
by ARKANSAWYER
xx
sawing for grade ?

Started by bitternut on Sawmills and Milling

9 Replies
1708 Views
Last post September 06, 2007, 05:59:45 AM
by Ron Wenrich
thumbup
Sawing For Grade

Started by oregonsawer on Sawmills and Milling

15 Replies
3354 Views
Last post June 17, 2009, 09:18:18 AM
by WoodMiller
xx
grade/quarter sawing

Started by J Beyer on Sawmills and Milling

2 Replies
1340 Views
Last post December 27, 2002, 05:00:44 AM
by woodmills1
 


Powered by EzPortal