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Author Topic: Pulling Stumps with Block and Tackle  (Read 35001 times)

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Offline Tom

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Re: Pulling Stumps with Block and Tackle
« Reply #20 on: March 02, 2006, 12:13:04 PM »
J.Hercules is a Forester with the "dynamite" plant.  Though he has educated us in past posts that stumps aren't really used for that anymore, if the ever were.  :)   

I go for his last picture.  That looks like the way to go.  If It works for  Hercules, it should work for anybody.  That's what they do, dig stumps.  It sure wouldl be nice if he could dig up (pun intended) a film clip, that Jeff could put on here somewhere, of that machine at work.
extinct

Offline landrand

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Re: Pulling Stumps with Block and Tackle
« Reply #21 on: March 02, 2006, 12:57:07 PM »
I plan to fell the trees this spring.  I do like to leave at least 6" of stump above ground for easier pulling.  I would like to clear the field this summer for pasture.

Minnesota_boy is right about rotting jackpine stumps.  They are still tough to pull after they've been in the ground for five years.  For some reason, they don't rot that quick.

After I pull the stumps, I plan to just pile them up for a month and burn them.  They burn well.

I can easily push over these jackpine trees with by backhoe.  Unfortunately, the base of the tree usuall splits or breaks wasting the first 3-5' of good wood.  Besides, when you push a tree over, the base of the tree gets covered with sand.  Chainsaw blades and sawmill blades can't cut through sand without instant dulling of the blade.  Therefore, you have to clean the log before cutting.

Last year I got my 10,000lb JD tractor stuck in about 2' of peat muck swamp at the base of a 20' steep hill.  I tried to pull the tractor out with my backhoe with a straight cable betwen the backhone and tractor.  Not even close. I just spun the wheels on dry good ground.  I hooked up a simple two block and tackle system. I was able to pull the tractor out with ease.

Now the blocks, chain, and wire rope (3/4"-1") I intended to use are really heavy duty industrial strength.  I believe they would be strong enough to handle the force.   From what I was to calculate, using the proposed triple block and tackle setup would only apply 1/6 the actual force applied to the stump to the back of the tractor.  I seen some of the farm implements (plows, subsoilers) a 100HP farm tractor can safely pull.  How can a measly little jackpine stump take down a JD tractor with a block and tackle rig.

I think the trick is to apply some kind of twisting force to the stump.  When I pull the stumps with the backhoe, after cutting all the side roots, I normally have to work it loose and then apply a twisting force to fully break all the holding roots.  Then I'm able to lift the stump out.   The problem with the backhoe method, is you create a mess around the stump.  You have to scrape away the topsoil otherwise it gets buried beneath the sand subsoil.  You have to fill in the large whole.

I agree with most of the posts.  The best way to pull this many stumps is to rent an excavator or bulldozer.  Thats probably what I'll do, but it is more fun to think of ways I can do it with my $60,000 worth of equipment I already own.



Offline J.Hercules

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Re: Pulling Stumps with Block and Tackle
« Reply #22 on: March 02, 2006, 02:16:33 PM »
Thats correct Dan I am the fatlightered stumper from south Georgia.  Also as Tom remembers the stump plants never made dynamite, what is produced is wood rosin, which today is used in adhesives, food grade gums as in chewing gum and soft drink /sport drinks solutions that keep the flavor suspended in the water. More than 300 uses for the chemicals we make.

Back to pulling the stumps - a good excavator with a thumb and bucket would make quick work of your job plus cover the holes up as it goes if the cost for the job is not out of line with your budget.
Jim

Offline brdmkr

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Re: Pulling Stumps with Block and Tackle
« Reply #23 on: March 02, 2006, 02:49:37 PM »
I don't know if the prices are the same up there or not, but an excavator and operator go for 85.00/hour here.  They can pull a lot of stumps in a day.
Lucas 618  Mahindra 4110, FEL and pallet forks, some cant hooks, and a dose of want-to

Online beenthere

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Re: Pulling Stumps with Block and Tackle
« Reply #24 on: March 02, 2006, 03:10:49 PM »
What 10,000 lb Deere tractor do you have?

Have you tried the twisting technique, where a log or timber is chained to the stump, and pulled around the stump to twist it loose? I've only heard about it, and not tried it or seen it done.

Another thought, would be to rig a 'spade' type pushbar on the front end loader, and try to sever the tap root a foot or so below the surface. On the order of a spud with a sharpened tip. Seems that would slip through a green pine root without too much resistance. I've speared some stumps with my fork(s) on my tractor, and white pine can be split apart like firewood. If I had more that a 3000 lb Deere 4300, I think it would even be easier.

I'd sure keep in mind a stump grinder and what it would cost compared to 'pulling' up stumps with a long tap root. I don't see the efficiency or need to remove all that wood from the ground.  But 'ain't' my ground. :)
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Offline landrand

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Re: Pulling Stumps with Block and Tackle
« Reply #25 on: March 02, 2006, 04:11:20 PM »
I have a John Deere 6400 Farm tractor with a loader and cab.  I know the base 6400 weighs about 7,500 lbs.  With the cab and loader, it must weigh 10,000+ lbs.  My backhoe weighs 16,000 lbs.

I plan to plow/disk the soil after I get the trees/stumps out and plant grass/legumes.  The soil isn't great, but with time, I can make it into pretty good pasture.   Seems to me grinding 500+ stumps wouldn't be all that easy either.  In total, I have 25 acres of jackpine that I would like to clear and remove several thousand stumps .  Unfortunately, that would be to tough to do so I'm starting small and only clearing a few acres.  If this forum allowed attachments of jpeg pictures, I'd show you what the property looks like. 

Twisting the stump out with a long lever could have potential.  Chain a log or long 16' railroad tie to the front bucket with the log/timber sticking out past the bucket   Drive up to the stump and chain the log/timber to the stump and drive around the stump.   Don't know if I'd be able to chain the log/timber tight enough to the stump to hold it while it twisted.




Online beenthere

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Re: Pulling Stumps with Block and Tackle
« Reply #26 on: March 02, 2006, 04:27:21 PM »
That is a lot of grinding.  :o :)

The forum only allows jpeg pics so bust 'em down to size (400 pixels max in long side) and save 'em to file size less than 30kb and stick 'em in your gallery. Just bring 'em up from your gallery and click on the line that says 'copy for posting' (or something to that effect) below the pic.

Sure like to know if the 'twist 'em out' method has any merit. That still would be a lot of work too.  :)  I'd chain it to the drawbar myself. Easier to drive around the stump that way?

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Offline barbender

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Re: Pulling Stumps with Block and Tackle
« Reply #27 on: March 02, 2006, 05:19:26 PM »
  I have not tried this personally, but I would think a frost point on your hoe would make quick work of those stumps.  I have dug many stumps with a backhoe and also my skid steer, and it is definately a pain in the rear.  The problem is all the soil you have to remove to cut the roots when using a normal bucket.  So I've been thinkin a frost point would work dandy, it would cut the roots without digging up the soil. You still have the tap root to contend with,  but if you can pull straight up on the stump they usually come right out. A ripper/frost point is on my project list of things to build for my skid steer, as I have a few stumps to pull on our place.  I think the advantage with the skid steer is that it can get right under the stump and lift up on it. We'll see if it works.
Too many irons in the fire

Online Corley5

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Re: Pulling Stumps with Block and Tackle
« Reply #28 on: March 02, 2006, 08:07:06 PM »
My experience as a Northern Michigan native is that if the ground grows good jackpine that's all it's good for.  You'd be better off finding a piece of land with northern hardwoods to clear or better yet an old farm that already has cleared land to plant.  It'll be a long time and a lot of $ before jackpine sand will support a decent pasture.  It'll need lots of lime, fertilizer and green manure crops to build some humus  The moisture retaining properties of that soil is minimal at best and why jackpines have the root systems they do.  You may get a nice pasture started and with the first dry spell it'll burn up. 
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Offline getoverit

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Re: Pulling Stumps with Block and Tackle
« Reply #29 on: March 02, 2006, 10:28:40 PM »
Good to meet you J.Hercules!

I'm a neighbor of yours, living between Hilliard and Callahan. Always good to meet someone from my neck of the woods !
I'm a lumberjack and I'm ok, I work all night and sleep all day

Offline landrand

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Re: Pulling Stumps with Block and Tackle
« Reply #30 on: March 03, 2006, 12:08:56 AM »
I'd love to be able to find an old farm or other hardwood property to build upon, but what I have is kind of special.  25 acres with 1000 ft of frontage on a very large lake basin. Unfortunately, my property is a jackpine stand.  Some of my frontage is muck/peat and I have been given permission by the DEQ to dredge this organic material and deposit in the upland area.  Currently, I have enough oganic material to spread over 1 or 2 acres.   I've been spreading an unlimited supply of sawdust on the sandy soils as well.  A sawdust pile takes forever to compost.   Spread it on the ground, it takes about a summer to compost. 

I have an unlimited supply of free horse manure from a local horse boarding facility.  I've been hauling it with a 5 yard dump truck and will spread it over the cleared area. 

I'm milling my own timbers and plan to build a timberframe home on this property.   Some of you must think I'm a bit crazy.   Sure it's good ole work, but I enjoy working outdoors nevertheless.  Beats sitting and working at a desk all day.

Offline C_Miller

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Re: Pulling Stumps with Block and Tackle
« Reply #31 on: March 03, 2006, 05:28:58 AM »


   Pictures i've seen of the old horse/ox team stump pullers showed  large diameter outside wheels and a small diameter wheel attached on the same axle.  the team would pull the large rim and the smaller was attached to the  stump. Gave a big Mechanical advantage over the straight pull.
CJM

Offline Dana

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Re: Pulling Stumps with Block and Tackle
« Reply #32 on: March 03, 2006, 07:28:38 AM »
I am not speaking from personal experience. However, I was told to be very careful with the use of sawdust on fields. It seems that the sawdust "eats" up nitrogen very quickly. Wood chips are o.k. as they take longer to decompose. If my soil was poor, I wouldn't want to loose that nitrogen. ;)
Grass-fed beef farmer, part time sawyer

Online beenthere

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Re: Pulling Stumps with Block and Tackle
« Reply #33 on: March 03, 2006, 08:55:11 AM »
Dana
I think that is very true, and likely means one has to add nitrogen to make up for what is used up breaking down the sawdust. More support for soil samples to know what to add.
Some crops like potatoes and lettuce grow well on the sandy soil that jack pine thrives on.
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Re: Pulling Stumps with Block and Tackle
« Reply #34 on: March 03, 2006, 09:23:32 AM »
Sawdust initially ties up nitrogen during the decomposition process but releases it at later stages.  So I've been told :)  Crops that do well in sandy soil only do so if they have adequate moisture.  Where are you located landrand ???  Sounds like you've got plan.  What about an irrigation pump ???
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Offline Nova

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Re: Pulling Stumps with Block and Tackle
« Reply #35 on: March 03, 2006, 10:36:34 AM »
Bacteria need nitrogen to transform carbon into the compounds they need to grow and reproduce.  If there is insufficient nitrogen in the material the bacteria are digesting/decomposing they will extract it from the environment tieing up the nitrogen in the biomass of the bacteria depriving the plants of the nitrogen essential for green growth, hence, stunted plants.  If the sawdust is placed on the surface of the field this is much less of a problem, but when it is tilled into the soil, nitrogen depletion results unless supplemental nitrogen is added  You would think that the horse maure would have enough nitrogen in it to prevent this but a large proportion of the nitrogen comes from urea which rapidly breaks down and off gases to the atmosphere being lost to the plants and bacteria (this is what burns your eyes in a fresh manure pile, amongst other things smiley_airfreshener ).  This link has more info.  http://ohioline.osu.edu/agf-fact/0212.html

Nova
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Offline landrand

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Re: Pulling Stumps with Block and Tackle
« Reply #36 on: March 03, 2006, 12:12:48 PM »
I'm not worried about nitrogen depletion and how it will affect the grass because, at this point, I don't have any grass.  The soil has anywhere from 2"-4" of organic material on top of the sand subsoil.  This topsoil isn't very good at growing anything (except blueberry's) because it's primarily composted pine needles.   Grass doesn't grow around freshly fallen pine needles due to some chemical found in the pine needle as well as the constantly decomposing pine needles deplete the nitrogen of the soil.   Unlike hardwood trees that lose their leaves during the fall, I think pine needles are constantly falling off the tree's.  What I've found is if you take away the pine trees, throw some grass seed on the ground, the seeds will grow.   It won't be a lush lawn due to the poor soil properties, but grass will grow if pine needles are eliminated from the equation.

My goal right now is to add organic matter to the soil.   Before I pull the stumps, I scrape what little topsoil there is away from the stump (about a 12'-16' diameter) with my backhoe.  Although the topsoil isn't the best, it is organic and I need all the organic soil I can get.  I then pull the stump.  Using a backhoe to pull the stump creates a hole 10'-12' around the stump.  If I didn't scrape away the topsoil before digging, the precious topsoil would be burried in the hole and covered with the sand.  Once I have a small 1/2 acre cleared of stumps, I smooth the sandy soil out and then dump the original topsoil back on.  I then smooth this out.  To level out the soil, I backblade with my backhoe to get it distributed throughout the area.  Then I'll use my dump truck which has an underbody snow plow blade.   This seems to work best in getting the soil evenly distributed.  I just drop the underbody blade and drive it around the clearing.  I have a box blade for my tractor, but I find I'm not very good at using it.  Finally, I pull an ole spring tooth cultivator around and it picks up all the left over broken tree branches and blueberry bushes that is scattered in the soil.  I have to get all this trash out of the soil otherwise it is nearly impossible to smooth out and evenly distribute the soil.  The blueberry bush twine and sticks cause the soil to clump when I try to smooth it out.  Once this trash is out, it smooths out very well.  Once this is all done, I just dump and distrubute sawdust and manure to small field as I get it.  I know it sounds like alot of work, and it is, but doing all this is rather easy and kind of fun.  The hard part in this process is pulling all those double DanG jackpine stumps.

I live near Marquette, MI in the upper peninsula.  Around these parts, we have quite a few paper mills.  In the paper making process, they daily generate hundreds of ton's of organic waste that they need to constantly get rid of.  This waste is basically clean organic material or composted wood.  In addition, this material does contain some lime.  For free, they will deliver, spread, and till it into your fields.  I plan to have this stuff added to my clearings, on a yearly basis, as well.  So for free, and no work on my part, they'll add an inch or two every year of organic material to my cleared fields.  This stuff also will help neutralize my acidic soil since this organic waste contains lime or calcium carbonate.  In the meantime, I'll probably add some lime, fertilizer, and seed with rye or whatever to grow a little green manure as well.  Hopefully, after a few years, I'll have a somewhat decent pasture. 

I've been thinking about irrigation as well.  Last summer, I drove a 2" point (water table 17' down) and used a 1/2 HP jet pump for running water around the camp.  This worked fine for watering my garden and a small lawn.  To irrigate several acres, I'll need something much bigger than this.  I need to get smart about irrigation to figure out what will be required for irrigating several acres.




Offline Nova

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Re: Pulling Stumps with Block and Tackle
« Reply #37 on: March 03, 2006, 01:12:25 PM »
Jack pine, blueberries, peat = acid.  You may need to add more than 'some' lime to move the pH to a favorable range to grow grass.  Plants are more forgiving (usually) on the acid side than the base side of the pH scale so testing your soil is good advice before you get too enthusiastic regarding lime.  Given that you are looking at years of amending the soil I think you are on the right track.  I wonder about the pulp mill byproduct.  What part of the paper making stream is it coming from?  I would want to make sure it is closer to the front end than the backend re potential for undesirable chemical residue  smiley_skull .  As for it being a lot of work, what's worth it that isn't?  Go for it.

Nova
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Offline landrand

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Re: Pulling Stumps with Block and Tackle
« Reply #38 on: March 03, 2006, 01:42:01 PM »
I've talked to several health organizations as well as the MI Department of Environmental Quality (DEQ) about the paper mill waste product.  I've been told it is very safe to use.  In fact, they have been spreading in on farm fields for quite a few years now.  If there were any health or environmental issues, I'm sure the DEQ would not allow it.  The DEQ does have limits on how much you can dump on a field per year.  The application also must be applied 50' away from a water body.  I believe that's the only restrictions for the organic waste material.

I've also wondered about treated sewage.   I saw a documentary on TV about the Los Angelas sewage treatment plants.  After they treat it, they pipe it inland and deposit on farmlands.   I wonder what all the local sewage plants do with the treated sewage?  That would be another potential source of organic material.   What one won't do to grow grass....

Offline Nova

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Re: Pulling Stumps with Block and Tackle
« Reply #39 on: March 03, 2006, 04:41:55 PM »
Glad to hear that the pulp by-product meets the DEQs approval.  Sounds like a win-win solution for both parties.  Biosolids is not in my area of knowledge other than to say it has been given a bad rep by some because of its association with heavy metals.  I am not sure if the biosolids accumulate them or if the application causes a chemical reaction to make the heavy metals in the environment more soluable.  Either way, I know a farmer here who had approval to apply biosolids to his fields and local pressure from his neighbors caused the government to withdraw his permit.  Be forewarned.  More info at this link on biosolids http://www.epa.gov/owm/mtb/biosolids/genqa.htm

Nova
...No one cares how much you know until they know how much you care...John Maxwell


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