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walkerized?

Started by minesmoria, March 06, 2006, 12:10:59 AM

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minesmoria

I thoungt about getting my 359 walkerized muffler crank case and port polished they say i would get 1 extra hp power and run  20 f cooler.

So what do they do to the crank case and the ports to make the saw run smother and faster?

Al_Smith

They do a magic act on it.Well,not really.Some how or another the word"port" gets snuck in the every conversation of saw modifications,rather erroniously.
It is simple physics if you understand how a 2 cycle engine works.By modifing the muffler,more of the fuel charge from the crankcase can be put into the cylinder [it works on differential pressure].By the same tokin more heat is expelled from less back pressure.
With regard to the actual ports,intake,transfer and exhaust.They most likely are polished.This lessens the resistance to the flow of the fuel/air charge.
If a person were to widen the transfers,it is the same thing as putting larger valves in a 4 cycle engine,more fuel entering the cylinder.
Changing the relationship of the port opening to the piston is the same as putting a racing cam in a 4 cycle.[port timing]One must bear in mind that any alteration of the ports will have an effect on the engines torque curve.Some good,some bad.
What Walkers saw shop does is most likely a well guarded secret,as with all engine builders.The most overall gains get be acheived through muffler modifications.
Now then,a gain of 1 horse power on a 60 cc engine is most likely wishfull  thinking.Not impossible but improbable.
As a reference,do a "google" search on macdizzy.This guy is a 2 cycle guru and has an excellant web site on the subject.

dozerdan

HI

Walkers do an excellent job for the price that they charge but there work in minimal compared to other people in the business.
They do excellent muffler work and the 359 needs a lot in that area. They use an internal baffle plate that needs to be removed along with opening up the outlet hole and adding another one.
I have reworked many of the Walker saws, so I know what they are like. They raise the exhaust port and polish it. That is the only port that I have seen them touch on a saw. They do change the intake timing but they cut the lower skirt on the piston not the intake port itself. I have never seen them touch the transfer ports. The 359 needs plenty of work in that area.
They do increase compression on there saws but there methods differ from most builders. Walker simply removes the base gasket from under the cylinder and installs them with some type of sealer. Most builder prefer to machine the base off of the cylinder and install a gasket. You have to remember that 2 stokes and air leaks don't get along, its just an accident waiting for a place to happen.
  1hp isn't out of the question on that saw but you have to do a lot of work on all of the ports not just a few of them.
I have never seen them polish or do any work on the engine case.

Later
Dan

Danny Henry
Central Pa.
Home of the Original Power Ported Saws
570 658 6232
dozerdan@sunlink.net or
dozerdan@nmax.net

minesmoria

Crank shaft balancing is an 100 extra form the porst and muffler.

They say its gives you quicker throttle response and smoother saw.

I hade the muffler done when i bought the saw.

Its just a firewood saw through i do cut quite big logs up some times up here in the pacific northwest.

outdoortype

Minesmoria or Dozerdan,

  How much louder is the saw with the  muffler mods?  I've thought of having it done on my beloved 359.  I'm not so much worried about power but I want to increase engine life.  Just wondering about the risk/benefit ratio.


Hotsaw

The biggest question is how much real gains  do the other saw bulders get over what walkers gets ? and is it worth the difference in money?? I doubt its worth it looks like most gains are made by muffler mods alone and looks like anyone with a few tools can do.

Al_Smith

That does bring up a real good question.I could never figure why so many people are obsessed with trying to make,for instance,a 70 cc saw out cut a 90 ccc saw.
I hear the arguement that the 372 is lighter blah ,blah ,blah and won't wear you out as bad as lugging an 066 around all day.I always figured if I needed a bigger saw ,that is what I used.Why go to all that trouble to tweek a smaller saw?
Hopping up a saw to get the edge on the other guy is another subject all together.Ha,I'm guilty in that area 8)

Captain

For me, it is about the speed in the cut without wearing myself out.  Especially when bucking firewood.  There is no substitute for large saw/large bar on the big felling jobs.  In fact, sometimes I have to slow down when felling to avoid mistakes/overcuts.

Plus, it is also cool to have a MS460 that outcuts anything in its size class....

Captain

Hotsaw

Al I know where you are coming from I too hear all this about 372 doing all this marvelous stuff I for one don't buy it. I'm with you if you have a need for a big saw use one!
Now I am all for getting buy with the lightest saw possible for the task at hand but personally any mods to a saw that your going to use for every day work beyond opening the muffler and properly adj. carb is a waste $ and may sacrifice the life of your saw. there are a few that will argue this, they must think the saw engineers are stupid?

leweee

Quote from: Hotsaw on March 12, 2006, 11:49:34 AMthey must think the saw engineers are stupid?

not stupid....just conservative......I'm all for maken that saw preform better than stock....stock EPA saws just don't cut it  ::) Saw engineers have their hands tied when it comes to EPA regs. :P
just another beaver with a chainsaw &  it's never so bad that it couldn't get worse.

treeape

Quote from: Hotsaw on March 12, 2006, 11:49:34 AM

Now I am all for getting buy with the lightest saw possible for the task at hand but personally any mods to a saw that your going to use for every day work beyond opening the muffler and properly adj. carb is a waste $ and may sacrifice the life of your saw. there are a few that will argue this, they must think the saw engineers are stupid?


Quote from: Hotsaw on March 17, 2003, 04:23:56 PM
Hello all, If you really want a 372 that run's extremely well (or any saw of your choice) May I  suggest you contact
Ken Dunn  Ken is the master ,,costly and worth every penny
Or Dan Henry  Dan is a close second to Ken and has a fast turn around time and your best bang for you buck.


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           Did the same person write these 2 post's? they seem to contradict each other. 

            hotsaw.........can you please tell us how many saws from dan henry you currently own and run in the woods on a weekly basis?

               i thought ken was out of the saw building business since his health problems. is he back at the grinder or just useing the phone to build saws these days?

Jeff

treeape, I am going to welcome you to the forestry forum but I am also going to say that your first post looks like it was made just to be confrontational. It also appears you are bringing baggage from some place else. If either of these are the case, and I suspect they are, don't forget where you are. This is the Forestry Forum where politeness and helpfulness and decency are the way we do things. Anything in the opposite direction will not be tolerated.

Now, with that out of the way, I need to know from someone through a P.M. whats going on with this so I know whether I can step back out of all this two cycle smoke.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Jeff

Thanks for the instant messages and comments guys. And again, welcome to the Forestry Forum treeape.  :)
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

bwalker

I have ran a Walkerized 346 along with saws from three other builders. The Walkerized saw was comparable to one, faster than one and slower than the other.
As some have said muffler mods net you the biggest gains depending on the saw.

barbender

Hey guys, I don't want to hijack this thread but I have a question about a 346 husky I have. This saw never ran right from the time I got it, seemed like a lean bog to me, and no matter how much I turned the scres on the carb I couldn't get rid of it (I ground the plastic limiters off the screws too so I could turn them more). I would tune it , it sounds good, then you get cuttin and the bog would come back. So of course when I bring it to the dealer it sounds fine, I told him I thought it had an air leak , he says no way to check for that. I know when I raced snowmobiles and worked on those quite a bit, you could check for crank leaks by making a plate to put on the intake port, pressurize it, and you watched to see how fast the air leaked out. Hopefully not too fast.  Anyhow, I was wondering if this was how you would do it on a saw too, and if so how many psi do you put in it, and what rate of pressure loss is acceptable.  By the way, I blew this saw up after I talked to the dealer, so I know there is something wrong. Husky did cover it, but the dealers remedy for the problem wasn't real comforting "Sometimes if there is an airleak just taking it apart and putting it back together will fix it" ::) Well, after being rebuilt it still bogs and I have given up on the dealer.  The reason I posted this here is I wanted to mod the muffler on it, maybe get it Walkerized, but I understand that will lean it out more, and I don't need that.  I suppose this could be a carbuerator problem too, what controls the midrange jetting on these carbs? maybe something needs opened up or something.  Any advice in general on things to look out for or improve on the 346 would be appreciated, I really like this saw when it runs right.
Too many irons in the fire

Al_Smith

I dunno,never worked on a Husky,let alone a 346 but a saw,is a saw.

You got the pressure check thing correct,with the plate and all.Another way is the old soap suds trick[at this,I here some groans in the back ground]A majority of air leaks are on the clutch side.
As far as pressure,or vacuum,Stihl,right from the book says 7.25 lbs/s in.

The reason a hogged out muffler causes a lean run is because it is moving more air through the engine.Just open up the high speed jet a bit,simple.

If that bogging is when coming up to speed,it most likely is due to the low speed being set too lean.

johncinquo

Quote from: Captain on March 12, 2006, 06:44:21 AM
For me, it is about the speed in the cut without wearing myself out.  Especially when bucking firewood.  There is no substitute for large saw/large bar on the big felling jobs.  In fact, sometimes I have to slow down when felling to avoid mistakes/overcuts.

Plus, it is also cool to have a MS460 that outcuts anything in its size class....

Captain


Have you run an 046 with the new 2mm oversized piston and bore?   




Wanna?     :D :D


You'll really like it then!
To be one, Ask one
Masons and Shriners

Calvin

After 3 months of normal use on a walkerized 372XP, it is shot.  I think it blew the lower bearings on the piston rod.  It won't move on the crank.  I don't know if the walkerizing is responsible, as I bought the saw used, and I don't know what it was put through before I bought it.  I've contacted walker's by email, and I hope they respond.  Again, I don't know if it was the mod's that caused my problems.  I do know that the metal that ended up in the cylinder did bad things to my saw!  Lots of alum transfer too.  Walker didn't mention changing oil/fuel mixture, so I was using standard 50:1 with premium fuel.  I'm not a serious logger or anything-occassional use only, but I like a good powerful saw.  I'm wondering if the $300 spent on "walkerizing" was worth it for me.  What do you pros think-Is my saw shot?  Based on the prices of rebuilding the lower end, I could buy a new saw as I don't have all of the tools to do the rebuild of the bottom end.  Thanks for any help!  Calvin :-\

rahtreelimbs



Seems to me that you may be SOL since you bought the saw used. Had the saw been new you might have some recourse!
Nothing Like A  Modded Saw To Start Your Day!!![/SIZE]               Later, Rich.

dancan

no different than putting nitrous on a used civic , lots of young fellows want it , lots of guys sell and install it but my engine builder won't touch it when it handgrenades  :o .
the good news is that a saw is cheaper to rebuild or even buy new  :-\ (still hurts the pocket book )
i had thought of getting my old saw done up but i feared those results and i had bought it used and it was in next to new shape but i did not know how it had been used or abused (gas , mix , airfilter , fiddeled with carb screws ) so i will save my pennies and get a new saw plus a woods mod  and keep the old one stock except the muffler mod .

treeape

Quote from: Calvin on May 29, 2006, 12:55:51 PM
Lots of alum transfer too.  Walker didn't mention changing oil/fuel mixture, so I was using standard 50:1 with premium fuel.    Calvin :-\


                Since it was a used saw you basicly rolled the dice. did you pull the muffler to peak at the piston before you sent it to walkers?  i'm pretty sure if walkers would have found some thing was wrong then they would not have modded the saw.

                  why the alum tansfer? sounds like a lean issue.  what is walkers thoughts on mix ?

        if it was a strong saw before, modding should not have decreased its life.


           

Calvin

Quote from: Hotsaw on March 12, 2006, 11:49:34 AM
Al I know where you are coming from I too hear all this about 372 doing all this marvelous stuff I for one don't buy it. I'm with you if you have a need for a big saw use one!
Now I am all for getting buy with the lightest saw possible for the task at hand but personally any mods to a saw that your going to use for every day work beyond opening the muffler and properly adj. carb is a waste $ and may sacrifice the life of your saw. there are a few that will argue this, they must think the saw engineers are stupid?

I tend to agree with this, as my beefed up, walkerized 372xp blew its bearings after a few months of use (bought the saw used and had it walkerized).  Of course I don't know if it was the mods that did this.  I'm not a saw expert, so I don't know how the carb mix was and what the rpm's of the saw were.

Calvin

Thanks for all the good questions and info guys.  This site should be a good use of time.  The cyl, piston, and saw were good before they went to walkers.  I'm not a saw pro, and don't claim to be one.  I do occassional tree work, but wanted a saw that would perform when I needed it to.  Since I got it back from walkers I put about 3 months of occassional use on it.  It may have been a lean issue on the alum trans., but walker didn't say anything about using another mix besides the stock 50:1.  My bro builds bikes and motors and said I should have been using 32:1 or so.  Again, I can't say it was walker's fault.  It was most likely my inexperience with carb adjustments, fuel mix, and engine speed.  It did seem to turn pretty fast, and I have no tach.  I can say with 100% accuracy that Walker was 110% responsible for the sweet "motorbike" sound the saw made...sounded mean. 

Thanks again for any comments to the newbie with saw probs.  It's sounding like I should save up for another...

treeape

          calvin

                      I own about 14 modded saws........from a 346xp to ms880. the builder of the saws suggested around 40:1. i run 32:1 and use synthetic oil. i run them as a climber and run them hard. don't let one bad experiance scare you off.

                   when i got into playing with saws beyond the point of running them i picked up a digital tach. as long as you know what the max rpms should be you'll be fine. i tend to keep them around 500rpm below max on stock or muffler modded saws. on ported saws i go by what the builder tells me.

               

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