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Author Topic: Timber easment need help  (Read 5337 times)

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Offline Sawyerfortyish

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Timber easment need help
« on: March 16, 2006, 12:32:32 PM »
Just had a forester stop in the mill to talk about another job i'm going to do. He asked me where were working now so I told him. He said oh that borders state land and we have a timber easment. I think I have an idea of what a timber easment is but can anyone tell me exactly what that is?. When I marked the timber I had heard that the marked state line may be offset from the real property line a few feet. So I kept that in mind while marking trees and stayed back from the marked line.

Offline Craig

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Re: Timber easment need help
« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2006, 10:19:26 PM »
Greetings,

That is a right of way (access) for timber harvesting only. This is the only way to access a landlocked parcel that has no frontage and you need to cross an adjoining piece of land or sometimes it just reduces road building costs or distance to timber by crossing an adjoining piece of property for harvesting purposes.

Craig
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Offline Sprucegum

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Re: Timber easment need help
« Reply #2 on: March 17, 2006, 02:15:24 AM »
So who gets the timber on the easement if it has to be cleared for access to the other land?

Are they obliged to inform you before they start in on it?

Offline Sawyerfortyish

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Re: Timber easment need help
« Reply #3 on: March 17, 2006, 06:32:06 AM »
This is a 600 acre plot of land that has a paved township road right through the middle.  I have all the maps and see no land locked property. At least none i'm working on. This land is surounded by state land on 3 sides and borders the road on the other.

Offline sprucebunny

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Re: Timber easment need help
« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2006, 07:01:26 AM »
I believe that any sort of easement will appear on the deed. A quick trip to the deed office might be a good idea.
MS193, MS192 and an 026  Weeding and Thinning. Gilbert Champion sawmill

Offline beenthere

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Re: Timber easment need help
« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2006, 10:48:31 AM »
I agree with SB, and if it isn't recorded on the deed, it isn't real or has exceeded some time limit.

When we bought our woods, our lawyer for getting a clear abstract called to ask me if I bought it for the timber. I said yes, and he told me Hiram Walker & Sons had all rights to ingress and egress on the property.
I then learned that the elderly lady (prior owner twice removed) could recall selling white oak to them some 25 years prior, but she said that was only for a short period of time. Turns out her lawyer had failed to record the 6 months time limit on the deed and it hadn't been removed.
south central Wisconsin
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Offline Ron Wenrich

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Re: Timber easment need help
« Reply #6 on: March 17, 2006, 11:58:27 AM »
Perhaps this helps.  Easement - A right of way giving individuals other than the owner permission to use a property for a specific purpose.

For a timber easement, I am assuming that means a right of way for that particular purpose, ie harvesting timber.  However, I don't know if that is transferable. 

If the forester says he has a timber easement on through state property for Property X, I don't think you can use it for Property Y without going to the state. 

Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Offline SwampDonkey

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Re: Timber easment need help
« Reply #7 on: March 17, 2006, 12:47:45 PM »
Up here it means 'Crown Reserved Road' which is a road marked on a map, that is not neccessarily built. It's a right-of-way to other land holdings. If it is a Crown Reserved Road, then application is made to the Department of Natural Resources for a permit to harvest the timber in the ROW, on which a royalty is payed for the wood and permission is granted to build a road. Some loggers here never report the Crown wood they have 'stolen' off these reserves. Also, an easement could be stated on the deed that grants the owner of a parcel of land access to his woodlot via a desinated corridor on adjacent property. Often times this happens on farms, where one big farm was divided up and the woods on the back was deeded out separate with a easement stipulated, giving access along a line fence or traditional farm road of the adjacent parcel that was once part of the big farm. My great grandfather set aside an easement along the south boundary line of his farm for access to land beside him and a couple farms to the south. The road goes west to the International line and follows that to a couple farms. Used to be an old border crossing down there also.

Pre-commercial thinning pays off. :)

'If she wants to play lumberjack, she's going to have to learn to handle her end of the log.'
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Offline Sawyerfortyish

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Re: Timber easment need help
« Reply #8 on: March 17, 2006, 01:27:13 PM »
The forester told me I would have to get a permit from the state to log this. He then asked me what side of the road I was on and after I told him he didn't seem so concearned. So maybe the easment applies to the other half of the property on the other side of the road. Boy I hope so I don't want to get shut down for a stupid permit. I'm on a deadline to get these trees cut buy fall because the state is buying the property. Anyway at some point next week one of the state foresters is comming to look. I know this forester pretty good and have a good working relationship with him.  So whatever it takes to keep the crew cutting I'll have to do.

Offline Ron Scott

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Re: Timber easment need help
« Reply #9 on: March 20, 2006, 10:48:24 AM »
A "timber easement" might also mean that one has the rights to the  timber only, but does not own the land surface. It might be state owned land with a private timber reservation on it.

It's best to check out the deed of ownership as previously stated to determine the specific situation and intent.
~Ron

Offline SwampDonkey

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Re: Timber easment need help
« Reply #10 on: March 20, 2006, 10:57:01 AM »
Maybe it's a conservation easement as well. I don't know what that holds in your juridiction.

Pre-commercial thinning pays off. :)

'If she wants to play lumberjack, she's going to have to learn to handle her end of the log.'
Dirty Harry

Offline Phorester

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Re: Timber easment need help
« Reply #11 on: March 20, 2006, 11:38:36 AM »

As you're finding out on this forum, timber easements mean different things in different states.

You're on the right track by checking with your local State Foresters.
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Offline Sawyerfortyish

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Re: Timber easment need help
« Reply #12 on: March 20, 2006, 07:28:40 PM »
I went to the job today and no sooner steped out of the truck and a ranger was on me like a fly on a sticky bun ::). Heres the story from what I can gather from the caretaker of the property and the ranger( I don't think that either side is telling me the whole story) The state many years ago had a land swap  and  has a conservation easment on the land. The land owner has a conservation plan drawn up and sighned by a forester that calls for a timber harvest. So I don't know where to go from here nobody told me to stop yet altho the ranger gave me a # to call and talk to a forester I called and was told he wouldn't be in untill wednesday. So I decided to stop the crew for a couple days til I find out where I'm at. I have a contract and put down 50% of the money before I moved in to cut. The crew has about 50 trees on a landing. Right now I feel like i'm sitting out on a limb that cracking and I can only hope to land on my feet

Offline jon12345

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Re: Timber easment need help
« Reply #13 on: March 20, 2006, 08:03:06 PM »
If the timber you 'bought' doesn't follow the plan set forth in the management plan of the conservation easement, somebody might be in some hot water. 
A.A.S. in Forest Technology.....Ironworker

Offline Ron Scott

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Re: Timber easment need help
« Reply #14 on: March 20, 2006, 08:38:48 PM »
It's always best to have a "warranty clause" in your timber contract so if the owner turns out to "not be the owner" whereby you can collect for damages if the supposed owner "is not" the owner.

Also, if a husband and wife both own the property be sure that both sign the timber sale contract as the contract could be void if only one party signs it.
~Ron

Offline Ron Wenrich

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Re: Timber easment need help
« Reply #15 on: March 21, 2006, 05:45:58 AM »
I have always had the clause that the landowner guarantees ownership of the timber and will defend it at this expense.  I think a lot depends on the conservation easement's wording and who actually owns the trees. 
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Offline SwampDonkey

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Re: Timber easment need help
« Reply #16 on: March 21, 2006, 05:56:49 AM »
There was one old timer that lived alone, who came from a rich timber family. Some of these timber families never cut their own ground. Anyway, this old timer had a 'caretaker' living in an old shack on the forest property he owned. There is 400 acres there I believe. All the time this old guy thought his ground was being managed. I get a call when I worked at the marketing board to have a look at the lot for management. I go up there and all I can see is a wasteland as far as the eye could see.  >:( Come to find out it was the Old Timer's daughter behind it who wanted to live a lavish lifestyle beyond her means. I knwo of another property last year, where an old lady was living in a shack (owner) and the daughter was selling her wood and steeling the profit for her new cars and house.  ::)

Then to rub salt into the whole thing..... I know this old timers nephew. He and my uncle went up to the old timer's place because he had later died and his daughter was auctioning off everything he owned. She didn't want any of it.  ::) (I wish I could put words in here about what I thought of her). Then once the auction ended they burnt and bulldozed the place to oblivian. That homestead was the meeting place of the upper Tobique where log drivers and canoemen stopped and rested on there way up the Tobique to Guide, fish, hunt and cut timber. And this old witch and her minnions wiped it off the face of the earth.

Pre-commercial thinning pays off. :)

'If she wants to play lumberjack, she's going to have to learn to handle her end of the log.'
Dirty Harry

Offline Sawyerfortyish

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Re: Timber easment need help
« Reply #17 on: March 21, 2006, 06:35:26 AM »
Let me add a little more property ownership is not disputed here.  Just the ownership and management of the timber. If the timber management rights are held by the state and I have a paid contract with the owners where do I stand right now ?Some of this place was logged about ten or so years ago I now understand but a permit from the state had to be issued. I found that out from the guy that cut it last time.

Offline Ron Scott

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Re: Timber easment need help
« Reply #18 on: March 21, 2006, 10:18:00 AM »
It depends upon how that timber easement reads and which party holds the decribed rights and for how long. it. It's best to check with all parties involved in the property ownership before it gets too complicated where a lands attorney or judge becomes necessary to unravel it.
~Ron

Offline Phorester

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Re: Timber easment need help
« Reply #19 on: March 21, 2006, 10:41:40 PM »
There's still too much "if" and "I was told" and "I understand" in all this.  This is not meant as criticism toward you, you just don't know the correct story yet.  You need to get a copy of this easement and read what it says yourself.  Only then will you know.  If it is not clearly stated, you might have to hire a lawyer to intrepret it for you. 

But  get that copy and read it for yourself.
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Offline Sawyerfortyish

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Re: Timber easment need help
« Reply #20 on: March 23, 2006, 08:03:55 PM »
Just thought I would give you guys an update. As it stands right now they can't stop me from cutting the timber. The forest service says that there was something in an agreement someplace about 1965 but can't find any paper work on it. The landowners lawyer found a timber easment in his deed that allowed for a right of way to log a piece of adjoining property. That doesn't really affect me. The property owners conservation plan expired the first of the year so it must be renewed. All they want from me is a tally sheet for # of trees speices, diameter and board footage. So a forester can look it over. No problem I did my work when it was marked and have all that info. So the crew is back to work for now  8) until one of the two neighbors that are complaining about the logging figures something else out >:(

Offline sprucebunny

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Re: Timber easment need help
« Reply #21 on: March 23, 2006, 08:46:40 PM »
I'm glad you checked into it a little deeper. Hope everything works out well for you.
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Offline scsmith42

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Re: Timber easment need help
« Reply #22 on: March 23, 2006, 09:47:35 PM »
I second what Phorester wrote - go get a copy of the supposed timber easement and read it.  It should be recorded in the local county deed office.

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