Pole foundation

[Jeff]

I have a hypothetical question.  ;D    How do you think a foundation for a cabin would hold up if it was made from treated posts or old phone poles used as piers instead of concrete piers?  Say, 10 inch posts on 6 foot centers sunk 4 foot in the ground?  I know this aint a timber frame question or really log construction, but I need to think about this for possible future reference.

[Furby]

They do it along the coastal areas all the time.
Different climate, but same concept.
Some houses are up on stilts so to speak.
Look up some pics from the barrier islands along the East coast.

[Tom]

I'm not answering this as a knowledgeable person from the timber framing topic, but, buildings in the South were built on  piers of Fat Lighter in the 1700's 1800's and into the 1900's.  Many of them survived and the piers outlasted the buildings.   Many of these piers weren't sunk in the ground, but were just layed on top and the beams/joists/sills leveled with wedges.

Structurely, wood piers are sufficient.  They must be rot and insect resistant.   The solidified sap of the Southerm Yellow Pine tree made those piers almost impervious to fungal and insect (termite) damage.

[Jeff]

The difference here is the frost factor. And in this hypothetical setting, moist soils with potential for extreme winters

[Furby]

Deeper post.
I know for coastal areas, they may have to really sink them deep.
Frost would be a different concern, but can be beat by going deeper then 4' I would think.

[red]

check this out 

https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=17586.0

[Jeff]

Red, who'd a thunk that I was'nt bright enough to search my own forum eh?  :D

Dont answer that! ;)

[SwampDonkey]

What some folks do is have a sleeve that surrounds the post and put dry crushed stone between the sleeve and the post at the base of the sleeve. The sleeve is 4 or 5 feet deep in the ground, the post is sunk further down. And you don't need gravel clear to the top of the sleeve, just three feet or so. In other words the sleeve don't touch the post, just the stone barrier. The sleeve can move in the frost times and the post is stable and the structure can't shift because the post don't get heaved. Seen it done on summer porches with steel posts and crushed stone inside a plastic sleeve.

[Don P]

One thing a footing does is spread out the weight of the post end bearing on the ground. One common number I see on our drawings is 2000 pounds per square foot allowable soil  bearing. With a 10" post without a footing of some sort in decent soils, it shouldn't be asked to carry more than about 1100 lbs without sinking some. Gravel fill in a hole does help spread the load. It needs to be roughly as deep as the hole is wide. Concrete can't be beat for a footing under a post. We usually use a 2 foot square about 8-10" thick with 2 rebars each way (usually scraps).

Those coastal pilings are driven to a point of refusal at a certain weight I think, they depend on side friction alot. Wet stuff is outta my arena, usually  ;D

[Tom]

Jeff's got access to a lot of boulders too.  I'd be looking at harvesting a bunch of them and making me a rock foundation. Then just build on that.

[DanG]

Think power poles, rather than phone poles, as they are usually bigger.  "Pole butts" are usually free for the taking, in this neck of the woods.  They come from poles that have been broken by traffic accidents or catastrophic meteorological events.  The frontal area, thus the weight-bearing capability increases exponentially with the increased size.  This is one place where having a big butt is an advantage.

Jeff, your question brings to mind something I've been wondering about.  How come we have a special place to discuss Timber Framing and Log Construction, but no place for other types of building?

[Raphael]

Jeff, your question brings to mind something I've been wondering about.  How come we have a special place to discuss Timber Framing and Log Construction, but no place for other types of building?

  As far as construction goes most other methods of creating a 'shell' don't use wood, the primary exception being stick framing which is pretty basic and well know.  I think a forum for Architectural Finishing and Furnishing (stairs, flooring, cabinetry, furniture and the like) might be the best addition.
  I've seen threads on installing flooring here, in drying and processing and in the general forum, it'd be nice to have them all together.  I've got a several 'finishing the house' pictures I haven't got around to posting partly because they don't fit any one forum better than the others.

[ARKANSAWYER]

I am all for building off of rocks.

[Jeff]

As Tom says, there are plenty of rocks and boulders, but in the land of ice and snow, rocks, rock and roll.

[Tom]

Don't you have any Flat Rocks?  :-\ :D

[SwampDonkey]

I'm sure he has lots of shale/mudstone over that way, not sure about sandstone. But if he has ancient dunes. he probably does. That tends to fracture and make nice big flat slabs. Don't see sandstone here until you hit the lowlands down south and east, then it's gray or red. But we have lots of ledge (shale), limestone (and other calcareous rock) and round bounders (granite and other metamorphic) and gravel mounds (kames, drumlins, eskers). ;D Need some shipped? You supply the trucks, crushers and loaders, I supply the stones. Have at her. :D

[Jeff]

Lots of Limestone and Dolomite. There are two huge quarries on either side of us. one in Cedarville one on Drummond Island.

I took a couple photos when I was bear hunting by some of the rocks that just crop up in da woods around the area.

Here is one of the little guys pokeing up in the woods.



Here is me posing next to it.

[farmerdoug]

Jezz, Jeff!!

That rock is the foundation.   I would just build the cabin right on top.  Just one heck of a front porch steps though. :D  I would be careful sneaking out to the outhouse in the dark also. ;)

Farmerdoug

[Jeff]

If it wasn't that its on state land, I'd certainly consider it. :D

Here is a smaller variety you find. You want to be careful certain times of the year. With all the moss on some of them you better pay attention or you dont see them if yer tooling through on the bike with a visor down.

[beenthere]

Are you sure that pic wasn't when you were in CR?  I see an anaconda strollin just nearby the feet der. Mighty brave you are.

[Jeff]

Thats the front rack on the 4 wheeler.

[jgoodhart]

A buddy of mine has a tractor shed and cafe barn built using electrical poles and both were built in the 60s. It surprises me the cafe barn has held up do to the wet straw and manure mix in it all the time. I would dig a hole below the frost level put a big as possible flat rock in the bottom and back fill around the pole.

[SwampDonkey]

Those are some big bruits alright. Makes for interesting navigating with machinery.  ;D

Looks like a nice growth of hardwood in there to. See any yellow birch grabbing onto those rocks with their roots?

[Jeff]

Not so much in this area. In the Cedars you see cedar all the time growing up and around them. I think the moss must really act as a wick. THe moss on that big rock was amazingly think.  I've seen rocks in the woods there where your almost sure its a moss covered rotten stump when you stand on them because they are so cushy, but if you get down and peel the moss back you see its another boulder.

[Fla._Deadheader]

That big rock looks just like a Cypress stump in the swamp. That's one indication there were really nice logs in that area, so, we hunted a little harder.

  I got some Tamarindo posts that will outlast you, yer kids and their kids. Price is good too.

  Gottem in 3 varas, 4 varas and 5 varas, AND, custom cut longer lengths.  ;D :D :D :D :D