Eastern hemlock and tamarack sawlogs

[extrapolate85]

Recently, I was working in the U.P. of Michigan and noticed a lot of big (6-12" s.e.d.), sound hemlock and tamarack logs in the pulp decks. I know very little about these species, but have a lot of experience with the hemlocks of the west (mountain and western) and western larch. Even mountain hemlock, which is considered an inferior species in terms of lumber quality, has a value as a sawlog that far exceeds its value as a pulp log (western hemlock and larch are well regarded).

So my question is - what is so bad about these two species (you don't see big, sound pine, spruce or fir logs in with the pulp)?

[Ron Wenrich]

Seems to me that when I was out west, they weren't doing much with madrone, alder, maple or oak.  I imagine those times have changed, but I have seen some of those hardwood mills websites where they try to mill hardwoods like softwoods.  They even tried to develop their own grades instead of using the NHLA.

My point is that markets are so varied from one area to the other, its hard to apply your reality to that of another area. 

In our area, hemlock is only sold as a construction lumber.  Larch has about the same odds.  There are very few markets for softwoods outside of the local trade.  When you get into areas that have a sizable amount of supply, then the markets will follow.  If you have a low supply, chances are its going into either pulp or firewood. 

Alternative #2 is to leave it in the woods and let someone else deal with it later.  Alternative #2 is not good mangement, but is quite often the course that's taken.

[SwampDonkey]

Well, I tell ya what. I don't have the answer, but if you want some phone numbers of mills up here in the NE that use those species, I'm sure they have an answer for ya. ;)

[extrapolate85]

Ron,

Your points are well taken. There is, however, the biggest studmill in the region a very short distance away, as well as several other studmills within an easy haul, so the demand for softwood sawlogs is fairly high in this region. From what I could gather by talking to the foresters and scalers, the studmills don't like hemlock and tamarack, but nobody was sure why. All of the decent pine, spruce, and fir go to the studmill. From what I could see, hemlock, especially, is a big percentage of the softwood component of this area. This would lead me to suspect that eastern hemlock and tamarack are not well suited for studs, and if that is the case, I am curious as to why (the logs sure look like nice).

[SwampDonkey]

Eastern hemlock when dry is hard and brittle and prone to splitting when driving a nail and tamarack is prone to twisting badly and is wetter and heavier than fir when green.

[james]

I know on the west coast a lot of the tamarac (larch) that gets harvisted winds up in plywood
(at least from the boise-cascade mill in kettle falls wa)
james

[woodmills1]

I hear that about hemlock all the time.  Hard brittle and splits when nailed.  Well, built my whole addition to the garage with it and didn't have any problem at all.  Hand nailed too.

[SwampDonkey]

woodmills1, I've used it to and I was not pleased when father had us use it for strapping inside a 80'x50' potato shed. I used it in the shop ceiling too and had to pre-drill holes for screws. I don't know where father got it, but it must have been cheap or we would not have used it. I would say it has to be much better used when green. When she dries, them nails won't budge. Also, most of the young and mid-aged trees here are full of shake because of the cursed sap sucker. I would much prefer dried western hemlock any day of the week without hesitation.

[Ron Wenrich]

Another problem with hemlock is the amount of shake that is present.  Many times you can't see it until after its sawn.  If you can't see it when you scale the logs, then you'll end up with a loss.

So, mills set the price low to make up for the risk factor.

[woodmills1]

I do see the shake around here, but it is only a real problem If I am trying to make the 2 x10's some of the local masons have me make for scaffolding.   One thing I have noticed is, hemlock splinters really hurt and almost always get infected.  I think it is because the wood is sort of fuzzy so when you pull splinters it tears the flesh and leaves some wood in ya.

[Coon]

Around here we use tamarack for rail fenecs.  We put them up while green and leave the bark on.  This ends up being the strongest fences around.  We don't usually use the tamarack for posts because of the twisted nature of them.  I find that when you put them in the ground for posts that they split up real bad when using a post pounder or front-end loader to push them in.  Heck I have even had a couple of tamarack posts start to regrow again because I did not put small end in the ground first.  Heck we have corrals out at our farm that have ben there for 40 odd years or more and are still standing.

Around here we also saw tamarack but it is usually only for barn flooring or for trailer decking.  It has to be put  in its final resting place green with lots of bolts and/or nails.

[Captain]

I've got a huge Hemlock here that is going to be framing lumber for the future garage  ;D  Someday  :

I've used hemlock for some of my outbuildings as siding before, it machines pretty well and is very durable.

Captain

[extrapolate85]

I appreciate all the feedback. I found out a bit on the net. Most stud mills in the great lakes region and the northeast only advertise SPF (spruce, pine, fir), but I found a few independent mills that market hemlock and tamarack studs as "Hem-Tam" which they sell green (could not find any pricing information to see if they are worth more than chips). I also found an interesting article on a fellow in New Brunswick who is specializing in tamarack flooring and decking (http://www.forestnet.com/archives/June_05/small_sawmilling.htm) and another company in Nova Scotia which specializes in tamarack decks (http://www.windhorsefarm.org/TamarackDecking.pdf).

In the end, I am getting the impression that eastern hemlock and tamarack have niches for which they are well suited, but that studs may not one of them.

[SwampDonkey]

I say, if ya got'm use them. But, most loggers leave hemlock standing.  The tamarack as well as the hemlock prices are barely feasible if your selling to a mill.

http://www.cvwpa.ca

for W. New Brunswick/E. Maine prices by species and Mill

[SwampDonkey]

Here is hunter's website

I have seen the product in Kent Home Building Supplies I beleive and i have heard of at least one new house having it installed in the area. Most folks though will go for oak, maple or birch flooring. When you mention tamarack, their nose will wrinkle up.  :