iDRY Vacuum Kilns

Sponsors:

Question for Smokers . . . . . . . . .

Started by TexasTimbers, January 01, 2007, 12:25:30 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

TexasTimbers

Ex-smoker here. I heard on the news this a.m. where they built another whole dollar of taxes into cigarettes. That makes 'em about $4.50 a pack they said. That would have cost me about $13.00 a day x 30 days a month equals what . . . $390.00 a month?

Is it enough to make you quit yet? I wonder how hard it is to grow some tobacco plants under the radar. Mary Jo is the biggest cash crop but at this rate tobacco it woin't be long before folks start illegally growing and selling black market tobacco I bet.

I am against the tax. I am not a smoker and I HATE the stuff especially when I am eating. And no I was not one of those smokers who just tossed his ugly butts on the ground especially in someone's yard like people do mine when they come over. When that happens I just think to myself "I bet they have unruly, impolite kids".

Well enough of the rant. I know we pay more in health care costs because smokers cost us big bucks that way in high premiums, but so do big eaters and alcohol abusers. My wife says that the VAST majority of people in hospitals long term are there because of obesity, tobacco, and alcohol.

Still, it gets in my craw that we alow the government to add so many taxes taxes taxes taxes taxes until we are going to be taxed out of existence.

One day you wait. There is going to be a sawlog tax on top of the inventory tax it can already fall under. There probably already is a sawlog tax and I don't know it yet. A sawmill tax (already is in the form of personal tax on equipment) is on the way. They sneaked a dirt tax in on us and called it a property tax.
Just wait. They are going to hit us with a "thinking Tax" one day. Thinking Tax Police will wander around and look for people who look like they are thinking. That's what I'm thinking anyway.

More tabacco tax? No way. "First they came for the Catholics . . . . . . . . "
The oil is all in Texas, but the dipsticks are in D.C.

crtreedude

Kevjay,

If you look at the tax code up there, it is written so each new tax is on a minority of people. That way, that group can't vote out the scoundrels - and those who aren't taxed think it is a good thing.

Imagine if there was a flat tax of 12 percent, and the government wanted to raise it to 13 percent.  :o

You see what happens when someone wants to raise the sales tax.
So, how did I end up here anyway?

DanG

The Government has no power that we, the people, haven't given to them.  We can take it away, too.  What we need, imho, is for all of us free thinking, practical individuals to start raising as much sand as the liberal do-gooders.  The politicians WILL listen to the public, as long as that is the only way to get elected.  The problem is that we only have 2 choices right now.  The Democrats want to give all the money to the Government, and the Republicans want to give all of it to the fat cats.  The vast majority of us are just sitting here, letting them do it to us over and over.

As far as I know, you are allowed to grow your own tobacco.  You may not be man enough to smoke that homegrown stuff, though. :o :o  Remember Picayunes and Home Runs?  Smokin' one of them was like taking a big ol' swig of moonshine!  The cigs we buy now are made from blends of numerous varieties of tobacco, each grown in very precise soil types, and under controlled conditions.  That being said, I've thought about it myself.  It would be a fun project, but I'd be better off to just quit smoking. ::)
"I don't feel like an old man.  I feel like a young man who has something wrong with him."  Dick Cavett
"Beat not thy sword into a plowshare, rather beat the sword of thine enemy into a plowshare."

TexasTimbers

I know DanG but DanGit they got most of us so DanGed occupied with earnin a livin and the rest of so fat dumb and happy that we ain't got time to put together a real effort at a viable 3rd party. Perot, crazy as he may be came close but they squashed that. I built a big floating dock next door to Perot's family body guard (not his bodyguard,his family's body guard) who was just retired from that esteemed position and I will call him Roy because that is his name and he won't mind me telling you this, but Roy used to come out and talk to me while I buiult this beast of a dock for his neighbor. He opened up about that fiasco fairly in depth with me. You would not believe how far certain gov entities are willing to go to keep someone like Perot from causing too many ripples in their "little pond".
This guy was not a BSer either in case you are wondering he took me in to meet the missus and dragged out the photo albums etc. He is the real deal and the Perot thing was swept under the rug like you would not believe.
The oil is all in Texas, but the dipsticks are in D.C.

Part_Timer

I hope it goes to $10 a pack.  Not that I'm against smokers but at that price I bet katie would quit. At least I hope so or I'll have to get another job. :D
Peterson 8" ATS.
The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary.

DanG

VIABLE!  That's the key.  You can't build a new party from the top, though.  If a new party would concentrate on electing some local officials and state legislators, they would soon field a Congressman or two.  What if 10% of the House were independant of the two major parties?  They would have most of the power, because neither major party would have a majority, and both sides would be kissing their butts to get their votes.  I was tickled to death when Joe Leiberman got re-elected as an Independent, but disappointed when he went back to being a Democrat.  That oughta be against the law!

It is awful hard to keep politicians from being corrupted, though.  I think a lot of them go into it with the right frame of mind, but there are a lot of powerful forces at play to send them off in the wrong direction.  Personal temptations are only a small portion of these forces.  A bigger portion is just plain old political pressure.  A guy can get himself dis-elected by voting against a bad bill, if that bad bill has a "feel good" coating on it.  There is a lot of the, "I ain't gonna vote for your County's hospital if you don't vote for the tax break for my company" sort of action going on, too.

Here in Florida, we got two things the Federal Govt. needs; the Governor has "Line Item Veto" power, and the Legislators have term limits.  Before we got those, we had about the nastiest "good ol' boy" Government you can imagine.  Now, ours is one of the more progressive State Governments, with a constant flow of fresh ideas, and the Governor can ax the pork barrel riders that used to ruin all the good bills.  It works a whole lot better. :)

Now to get back to the original issue, anybody know where to get terbacky seeds?
"I don't feel like an old man.  I feel like a young man who has something wrong with him."  Dick Cavett
"Beat not thy sword into a plowshare, rather beat the sword of thine enemy into a plowshare."

TexasTimbers

One thing is for certain DanG you ain't never gonna get ee-lected cuz you make way too much DanG sense.  ;)

The oil is all in Texas, but the dipsticks are in D.C.

DanG

I ain't gonna get ee-lected because I ain't gonna run. Now how many times have ya heard dat? :D :D :D
"I don't feel like an old man.  I feel like a young man who has something wrong with him."  Dick Cavett
"Beat not thy sword into a plowshare, rather beat the sword of thine enemy into a plowshare."

pigman

Quote from: DanG on January 01, 2007, 02:46:46 PM

Now to get back to the original issue, anybody know where to get terbacky seeds?

First you have to tell us what type you want. I am in Burley area, but there are the flue cured , one sucker, Maryland and probably some other types. If you want to smoke, the Burley, flue cured and Maryland would be the better choices. If you want some Burley seed I can send you some, but you will have to tell me what variety you want. There are at least 20 different varieties of Burley. Do you want the seed coated or non coated? I have not bought any lately, but I think the seed is about $75 an oz. Of course an oz would be enough for 3 or 4 acres of tobacco and that would be enough to give cancer to about a thousand smokers. :(
I am waiting for big brother to outlaw tobacco and then it will be real profitable to raise again. ;D


Bob

Things turn out best for people who make the best of how things turn out.

DanG

Thanks Bob, but I think I'll pass for now.  I have trouble enough getting around to planting a few p'taters any more. ::)  Didn't have a garden at all last year, but hoping to do better this time around. ::)

Your post does reinforce what I said above, though.  This place used to be a tobacco farm.  This county is one of the few places where you can grow good leaf for cigar wrappers, and that was the primary industry here for many years.  It was all grown under shade, and there were hundreds of acres of shade cloth.  Labor costs have made it unprofitable, and not a single leaf is grown here now.
"I don't feel like an old man.  I feel like a young man who has something wrong with him."  Dick Cavett
"Beat not thy sword into a plowshare, rather beat the sword of thine enemy into a plowshare."

tcsmpsi

Let's see...if I'm correct, the question was, "Is it enough to make you quit yet?". 

If that is the question, then my answer is, No.  I didn't quit when they went to 40 cents, either.  Neither did all the other folks who said they would if they ever went that high. 

Now, I pay less than $2 a pack and average about a pack a day (Smokin' Joes non-filters, comes from a tribal enterprise up north). 

Surely, those who conducted the studies found that humans have this inherent tendency to not like being 'forced' into decisions.   More tax will have little to do with folks quitting doing things. 

People tend to like the government doing all these things for them.  Government work is very expensive.

\\\"In the end, it is a moral question as to whether man applies what he has learned or not.\\\" - C. Jung

Tom

While I complained about the price of cigarettes going up, it wasn't what made me stop. 

I woke up in the hospital after an appendectomy in Jan 1980 with a pack of cigarettes in the side table and a room mate with the remains of one lung.   For some reason, smoking didn't enter my mind.  I left the cigarettes there when I left.

What caused me to quit, I'll never know.  I wanted to quit for years.  When I did, it was cold turkey from a 3 pack a day addiction. I'd smoke most anything that I could light and knew myself to have a pipe, cigar and cigarette going in different places at the same time.   I chewed when I was fishing or in the woods. A cigarette was never more than a shirt pocket away and my biggest fear was having no matches.

Perhaps it was the culmination of years of trying to quit.  Perhaps someone said something while I was under anesthesia for the operation.  At any rate, when I came out of it, I didn't have the desire to smoke anymore.

Returning to a house and work with a smoker was a little difficult but, soon I was not associating their habit with my need.  To help with the intimidation, I quit all forms of tobacco.  By the end of a week, I was so proud of myself that you couldn't have paid me to smoke, regardless of how much I may have wanted it.   A year later, I was becoming annoyed with the smoke around me.  Now, it actually makes me sick.

I've been told that it has to be in my mind because the minuscule amount in the air around a smoker shouldn't affect me.  I'm here to tell you that a heavy exhale from a confirmed smoker will have me as nauseous as I was on the first drag I ever took off of Granddaddy's cigar.  If it's in my mind then it's as real as if it were an injection.

It's been twenty-six years, today.  I'm a short, fat, curmudgeon.  But, I can taste every bite of food that reaches my mouth and enjoy waking in the morning with a clear chest and not coughing up phlem.  It's a freedom that you have to experience to know.  I don't worry about whether I have tobacco before I leave the house.  I'm not concerned about whether I have matches in the car.  I don't worry about being in a non-smoking area. (rather just the opposite)

I don't have to leave good company at the dinner table to stand outside for a smoke.  Hmm. Come to think of it, that was an attraction when I was a kid. The adult men gathered in the front yard after dinner and smoked.  It, sometimes, was a communal endeavor and I found it attractive.  It was as if they had been banished by the women of the house to a place where they wouldn't ruin the air or the furniture.

Thinking back on those 25 years when I smoked, I believe it to be the most stupid thing I ever did.  I could have experienced the same friendships without the addiction.  The addiction was the same as burning dollar bills, it had no positive qualities other than to warm my fingers on a cold day.

Am I in agreement with high taxes to make people quit?   No.  Some things the government should stay away from.  Legislation has no business being involved in the personal lives of citizens.  Taxes should not be a tool to manipulate freedoms and personal choices.

Should the government be involved in providing a haven from chemicals that annoy us?  Yes, that is its job.  Legislating where an annoying substance can be generated is well within its guidelines.

I pity those who can't shake the Nicotine addiction.  I understand the difficulty.  Lord, I wish to never be there again.

TexasTimbers

There but for the Grace of God, go I . . . . . .
The oil is all in Texas, but the dipsticks are in D.C.

tcsmpsi

There is mention made of a viable third party.  
You know, I hear that a lot, but very, very few are really interested in a 'third' party.  Experience has shown, that folks, when presented with a viable alternative, find that they want it to be just like the two major parties, and are not nearly as interested in Liberty as they like to whoop.  

We, The People, have slid deeply into a rut.  The financial price of Liberty is one's own toil.  Yet, we have fallen for the 'government speak', lurring us into taking our finances and paying them  to 'take care' of us.  

Like ol' Ben said, one who is willing to give up Liberty for 'security', deserves neither.


Libertarian County Chair and congressional candidate.   ;)

\\\"In the end, it is a moral question as to whether man applies what he has learned or not.\\\" - C. Jung

Gary_C

Tom, you forgot crusty!  :D

I quit 34 years ago and should have quit before that. I still have one son that resists all efforts to get him to stop. I even told him about my wife's uncle that was sent to the South Pacific in WWII and came back with Malaria, Jungle Rot, Polio and other ailments. He survived with a full lifetime disability and later got Gloukoma, Ulcers, and Hodkins Disease. However it was cigarettes and lung cancer that killed him. I saw him on his death bed and it was not a pretty sight with him coughing up blood and phlem.  :(  :(

All smokers should get to see a lung cancer victim.
Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.

TexasTimbers

A sea change will not occur at this point until a cataclysmic event brings the country to its knees and  forces one. Who knows what direction that change will effect.

The frost is off the mill. Time to turn the key and contribute to the national coffers . . . . .
The oil is all in Texas, but the dipsticks are in D.C.

TexasTimbers

Quote from: Gary_C on January 02, 2007, 10:11:44 AMAll smokers should get to see a lung cancer victim.

I agree, my dad watched one of his Navy buddies die that way Gary and it's what made him quit.
The oil is all in Texas, but the dipsticks are in D.C.

bugmeist

Everyone seems to hate taxes.  The trouble is that in order to keep roads, schools, hospitals, etc., etc. open the 'gov' has to tax.

The problem is how to make it fair.  Always seems that the middle class pays the most with all the wealthy get most of the breaks.

If you google "Tobin Tax" you find a tax proposal first put up in the '70's.  Briefly it recommended taxing currency transactions (meaning the big Wall St gamblers) at 1/4 %.  The revenue would replace all sales and property taxes.  And it is the wealthy speculators that pay.  Always sounded real sensible to me.  Check it out.

I actually read somewhere that a motion passed in the Canadian Parliment in 1999(?) to study implentation of this type of tax.  Nothing further but I'm going to talk to my MP.
100 acres, Lucas 618, Universal Tractor w/loader, chainsaws, cant hooks and not enough time to play!
Fear is temporary...regret is forever.   www.bugshirt.com

TexasTimbers

I have nothing against taxes its excessive taxes I disdain.

Who determines what is excessive and what is not? In the USofA we the people are supposed to, but we are so busy working to pay our excessive taxes we don't have time to throw the rascals out.  ::)
The oil is all in Texas, but the dipsticks are in D.C.

Tom

Fair taxes must be fairly applied.  In the USA, it's not the Fat Cats that would be bothered so much with paying the tax as the "joe blow" who is investing his retirement funds in the motor that keeps Democracy alive.

Paying for the military and things required by the Constitution is the job of  The Government.  All of these pork barrel projects that feed citizens and funnel funds and provide welfare are not required.  Somewhere along the line The Government and The Citizens began addressing themselves as "We" and "They".  That's wrong.  It's a semantic division that doesn't belong.  It's the sign of Big Government and loss of control by the citizens.

Government money isn't free money, it's still "our" money.  Those who think that "The Government will pay for it" are dead wrong.  All they are doing is applying a social structure that takes the money they want for a project out of someone else's pocket.

The Charter of the USA requires that the Government pay for certain minimal things.  Most of the other things we pay for aren't required by the original formula.

I read somewhere a little while ago that, something like 70% of the citizens of the USA were on the government payroll.  This was discounting Social Security which isn't considered a government payment but rather an investment in your country.

That's a Big government.

It befuddles me that we need  to hire 70 people to take care of every 30. Or, from another angle, that 30 people are taking care of 70.

It's been mentioned of the huge pyramid that would fall if the "income tax" structure were changed. Much of that tax is required just to pay for that huge pyramid of workers required to control, define and collect it.

What if we discovered that we didn't need an income tax at all?

Why are our tax structures so punitive?
If you make more money, you pay more taxes.  That's OK.   But, If you make more money, should you pay a higher percentage of taxes?  That sounds to me like someone has determined that you are only allowed so much money.

When you buy a piece of ground, why do you end up "renting" it.  The Taxes go on forever in encreasing amounts dependent on the assignment of value by some Cats sitting around a big table  in a back room of city hall.

If you build a house, it is assigned a tax value and you begin renting it from the goverment.  If you add a room, the value goes up.  If you build a porch, the value goes up.  If you want a roof, you must pay a permission tax and then the value goes up. Why would someone want to live in anything but a hovel?  Just put together the bare minimum to keep the weather off and tell the Government to go jump.

Yes, the way we tax needs a lot of study.  What we are taxing for requires even more.

There is only one way to crunch a government that has a free hand into your wallet. Don't vote for any new tax, period.  Even if you are promised another free ride if you do.  Demand that any tax have a "sunset".  Not a bad idea with most any law.

Getting a handle on finances is no different in the Government (all of them, local, state or Fed) than in your home.  If your paycheck could always be what you needed to pay for next weeks bills, would you consider a budget?

Dang it!   I've done it again.  grumble, mumble, grumble cantankerous, grumble mumble curmudgeon grumble   :)


TexasTimbers

I just wish for once you would tell us exactly how you feel about an issue. ANY issue. Even taxation! :D
The oil is all in Texas, but the dipsticks are in D.C.

bitternut

Don't take much to get him cranked does it.  :D  :D  ;D

leweee

That be CCC :D  :D  :D
cranky cantankerous curmugeon ;D
(played to the Rolling Stones tune"start me up"}
just another beaver with a chainsaw &  it's never so bad that it couldn't get worse.

thurlow

Hey Kevjay, let me tell you how I feel; exactly like Tom, 'cept he's literate and I'm not.  I'm in the process of building a wood-working shop.  I've got about $8000 in it so far and still lack insulation, electrical,  dust collection system and some incidentals.  So where'd I get that $8000?  It started out as a whole lot more than $8000.  I've been self-employed all my life;  the income tax I paid on the gross was what .........28%, 30%?;  Social Security/medicare was 15.3%;  paid 9.75% sales tax; paid fuel tax on the diesel I burned going back and forth to town; had to get permit to build (which is just a fund-raiser,  as long as you're not living in the building, they could care less what/how it's built,)  etc.  County tax assessor's rep has been out to look the place over, so next year property taxes will be going up and as long as the building stands, someone.........me for a while........will be paying taxes on it.  I'm taxed for trying to better my life.  I say do away with all taxes except sales tax.  You wouldn't be taxed on what you earned, rather than on what you spent.  If everyone chose to live frugally and save/invest their money, how could the country not be better off?  'Course, I don't know what that'd do to the hundreds of millions of poor, hardworking Chinamen who build this stuff we consume. ;D
Here's to us and those like us; DanG few of us left!

pigman

I like government programs. 8) I got $288 last year for not growing corn. But let's see, I paid $5800 in federal income taxes, $1200 in state taxes, $1500 in property taxes, probably over $1000 in state sales taxes, a bunch of taxes on other things. I paid my SSI, but I won't count that since my government promises to give that back when I retire.  :)  Also , if I decide to retire and sell the farm and machinery the government  will decide they are my partner and want a big share of the proceeds.   DanG, I just decided I don't like my little government giveaway as much as I thought I did. >:(

Bob
Things turn out best for people who make the best of how things turn out.

thurlow

AND................since we're rantin' and ravin' about smoking, let me tell about you my plan to fix the penal code(s).  The FF members could work out the details, but essentially it's this;  no one ever gets locked up again.  White collar criminals would be forced to make restitution..........someone could force 'em; I've been forced to do a bunch of stuff I didn't want to do. 

All other crimes would be assigned a "point" system.  No judge or jury would know about the criminal's accumulated points.  When 100 points was reached, execution........no appeal, no waiting, just be carried out behind the courthouse and hanged.  Sample points.........1st degree murder.....100pts;  2nd degree murder........55 pts. (everyone gets one free one);  armed robbery......35 pts;  burgulary......26 pts;  aggravated rape.......100pts;  rape......95 pts.( one free one);  assault.......30 pts, etc.  You don't like the assigned points, we can change 'em.  8) 8) 8) 8)
Here's to us and those like us; DanG few of us left!

TexasTimbers

Quote from: thurlow on January 03, 2007, 12:47:44 PM
Hey Kevjay, let me tell you how I feel...>

Hey you are preaching to the choir brother.  8)

If you were to glean my posts you'd see that I have basically said everything Tom did , in bits and pieces, except I am not as eloquent either.  :)

The oil is all in Texas, but the dipsticks are in D.C.

Gary_C

Pigman, how did you get the government to pay you $288 for not growing corn? They let me plant anything I want to now and long ago quit paying to not plant.

Thurlow, Could we get a point discount for shooting people like lawyers?   :D

If you remember, the MN Attorney General won a huge lawsuit against the tobacco companies. The Atty Gen hired an outside law firm to handle and their lead attorney got an obsene payment in the hundreds of millions of dollars plus Blue Cross of MN got their name on the suit and wound up with about half of the money which I am sure they put to good use. The state of MN was supposed to put that money in a special fund for smoking related programs, but when the general fund ran short, they raided that fund.

Also, MN has a work comp assement that is earmarked for grants to make your workplace safer, but they did not give out enough grants and they regularly transfer the surplus to the general fund.

You just can't trust politicians with money.  >:(
Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.

pigman

Quote from: Gary_C on January 03, 2007, 02:27:13 PM
Pigman, how did you get the government to pay you $288 for not growing corn? They let me plant anything I want to now and long ago quit paying to not plant.



I don't like government handouts, don't understand government handouts, but when they deposit the money in my bank account I keep it. ;D

Bob
Things turn out best for people who make the best of how things turn out.

Larry

Lot of farmers get paid to not grow stuff...course sometimes a little arm twisting required...well maybe a lot of arm twisting required in the tobacco settlements.

Heard a new one this morning...got some land in a crucial watershed and the government can't deprive me of my development rights.  So the government wants to pay me to not develop?  Don't laugh...already a law in 23 states from what I read.
Larry, making useful and beautiful things out of the most environmental friendly material on the planet.

We need to insure our customers understand the importance of our craft.

PineNut

Gary_C.  We have the same problem with politicians here in MS. Tobacco settlement money was to be invested and earnings to be used for health issues. But the politicians raid the fund. It goes back to the basic question, How do you know when a politician is lying?  His lips are moving.

Thank You Sponsors!