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Author Topic: Timber Grading  (Read 2480 times)

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Offline Scott G

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Timber Grading
« on: January 22, 2007, 07:48:47 AM »
I am looking for a grading school, course, seminar, something to give me a better idea of what is expected for structurally graded timbers.  I work mainly with oak so it would need to be a hardwood course.   

Scott

Offline Don P

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Re: Timber Grading
« Reply #1 on: January 22, 2007, 09:14:57 AM »
Depending on where you are NeLMA deals in more hardwoods than any other agency. I went to TP for instruction and was taught on dimensional. They said the principles are the same, only the details change and to read the graderules for anything other than dimensional to understand the details but apply the concepts the same. Chances are you aren't going to find an agency with enough interest to have a hardwood heavy timber session. Those graders mostly go by their OJT.
A laborer works with his hands
A craftsman uses his brain and his hands
An artist uses his brain, his hands, and his heart

Offline Scott G

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Re: Timber Grading
« Reply #2 on: January 22, 2007, 09:22:06 AM »
I currently use the NELMA grading rules but they are a little vague on paper and I wanted to get hands on training.  So my best bet is to probably contact a sawmill and possible setup a visit.

Thank you, I posted this same problem on a few different forums and you are the first to give me any kind of answer.

Scott G

Offline beenthere

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Re: Timber Grading
« Reply #3 on: January 22, 2007, 10:52:43 AM »
Scott G
Welcome to the forum. 

Is this some of your work, from Riverbend?

Riverbend Timber Frame

Inquire into some methods to determine the elastic properties of individual timbers, either using vibration methods or monitoring sound travel through the wood. Might be some good ways to sort out the weak ones.  NeLMA should know about such methods.  If interested, I'll try to find out more.
south central Wisconsin
 It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Offline Scott G

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Re: Timber Grading
« Reply #4 on: January 22, 2007, 12:21:19 PM »
Yes, I work at Riverbend.  I use to work in the shop but now I take care of the timbers.  Therefore, the reason I would like further training on timber grading.

Scott

Offline Don P

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Re: Timber Grading
« Reply #5 on: January 22, 2007, 12:29:40 PM »
Please do keep us posted on that beenthere. I've seen a little on it and it does seem to have alot of potential. I inquired of one company and asked about US applications, no response. I think like MSR, a visual grading is still necessary as some things that we consider strength reducing defects "fool" the instruments into thinking the wood is denser and stronger than it is.
I do recomend attending a training class if at all possible, you will learn alot that is not readily apparent from just reading the rulebook. A local grader will be helpful, a teacher is trained to pump that info into your skull.

If you are doing this for a large enough outfit then you train, join the agency, are trained onsite some more and turned loose. You will then be spot checked by the agency grader on his rounds. Several local log home companies are grading their heavy timber under those provisions. Smaller outfits bring in the travelling grader to stamp their work.

At the TF conference the NDS rep offered that TF would likely need to be graded after joinery is done to assure that the finished parts are on grade.
A laborer works with his hands
A craftsman uses his brain and his hands
An artist uses his brain, his hands, and his heart

Offline Qweaver

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Re: Timber Grading
« Reply #6 on: January 22, 2007, 06:16:59 PM »
What is required to become a lumber grader?  Seems like a good thing for anyone sawing and selling lumber. 

I hate the entire concept of requiring building inspections for people building a house for their own use.  To my mind, it's just another example of the government sticking it's nose into our business.  But it's there, so we have to deal with it.

Is a lumber grader restricted to a given area or is it a nationwide certification?

Quinton
So Many Toys...So Little Time  WM LT28 , 15 trailers, Case 450 Dozer, John Deere 110 TLB, Peterson WPF 10",  AIM Grapple, Kubota 2501 :D

Offline nsmike

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Re: Timber Grading
« Reply #7 on: January 22, 2007, 06:54:41 PM »
The Univ of MN extension service has a fall class in hardwood grading. I don't have the dates but it will be in the Spring issue of the Marketplace. You can check here http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/publications/forestry/marketplace/index.html. It will come out at the end of April.
Mike

Offline Don P

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Re: Timber Grading
« Reply #8 on: January 22, 2007, 07:22:13 PM »
nsmike,
That hardwood grading course is for appearance grades rather than structural, strength, grades I believe :).

QWeaver, the method I described above is the path. You cannot grade without being a relatively large fixed location. Nothing wrong with taking the training so you know more about what your doing. If I remember it ended up costing about $1500 to go down and take the class for 4 days.

A lumber grader is restricted to a mill technically. He does carry a card and can work elsewhere. The "stamp" is the property of the overseeing agency and cannot leave the assigned lumber co property. That's why I said the only "accredited" travelling graders are those agency check graders making their rounds of the facilities under their audit.
A laborer works with his hands
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An artist uses his brain, his hands, and his heart

Offline nsmike

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Re: Timber Grading
« Reply #9 on: January 23, 2007, 04:28:13 PM »
I think the course is more generalized here's a link to the course description from 2006 http://www.bbe.umn.edu/extens/shortcourses/grading.html
Mike

Offline Don P

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Re: Timber Grading
« Reply #10 on: January 23, 2007, 04:46:14 PM »
Yup its an NHLA course. The purpose of grading there is to determine how many clear, furniture type, cuttings can be manufactured from a board. It has nothing to do with the structural properties of the lumber. NHLA is not accredited to grade structural lumber.

The ALSC website has a listing of all the agencies accredited for structural grading  :).
A laborer works with his hands
A craftsman uses his brain and his hands
An artist uses his brain, his hands, and his heart


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