planers and jointers

Dan_Shade · January 27, 2007, 08:29:12 PM

Any opinions on the Grizzly planers and jointers?

I'm looking at a 20" spiral cutterhead planer, and an 8" jointer

is it worthwhile to get the spiral cutterhead on a jointer?

How smooth do they cut?

how hard is it to set the knives in the cutterhead?

how available are the replacement knives?

any input?

brdmkr · January 27, 2007, 09:10:36 PM

I have the grizzly 8" jointer with straight knives. It seems like a pretty good machine. I have never used the helix cutters. I have heard that they were great with highly figured wood, but that straight knives were better with less figure. I wouldn't know. I am a fan of Grizzly tools though. It is pretty hard to beat them for the money.

Dan_Shade · January 27, 2007, 09:16:28 PM

what's a parallelogram bed?

http://www.grizzly.com/products/G0490

Don_Papenburg · January 27, 2007, 09:51:08 PM

The best cutter head is the byrd shelix . It has the cutters in a spiral and helical pattern. I am getting one for my 16" central machine planner . It has identical castings as a powermatic 15" just a bit wider. I was looking at the Grizz planers but I wanted the 24" that did not have a spiral so I called the company to see if I could get a spiral head they told me that they had one and how much it cost . The price rung a bell so I checked and they were going to sell me a 20" spira; for a 24" planer.
Anyway I contacted Byrd they are making me a shelix head so I can update my old planer. I used my first spiral cutter on my buddies General jointer ,I was convinced then that I needed spiral cutters. There is less noise ,viberation ,and effort to move the wood through the cutter. Also the wood is smoother , no "knife waves" . Sometimes you will see small lines running the length of the board ,but that is a lot easier to sand out then the waves.
I have converted my 8" jointer to a spiral cutter from woodteK .
Paralelagram bed has two sets of arms that hold the bed in place instead of dovetail gib slides.

Fla._Deadheader · January 27, 2007, 09:55:17 PM

The cutter bits are actually indexable machine cutter bits. Easily obtainable. Once you use a Spiral, you'll never go back to straight blades.

Dan_Shade · January 27, 2007, 10:01:11 PM

ok, that's kind of what I figured on the helical cutter.

is it worthwhile to get the parallelogram bed? is that an advantage over the dovetail?

also, what's the rule of thumb for jointer length?

pigman · January 27, 2007, 10:47:34 PM

Dan, for me to get a good jointed edge, the board should not be much longer than the total length of the jointer bed. I have jointed longer boards, but I have trouble holding the board flat against the table surface when starting and finishing the cut. I have the 8" X 75" grizz regular knife and am pleased. I wish I had a Byrd head, but $$$

Bob

Norm · January 28, 2007, 09:23:11 AM

I've got the 20" spiral head planer and 8" jointer from grizzly. Both have been good machines for the money. On the jointer get the longest bed you can. The one you linked to Dan is real nice, I like the long bed and taller fence support especially. One of the things I like best about the spiral heads is how quiet they are.

TexasTimbers · January 28, 2007, 10:58:34 AM

For those who don't have/want to buy/don't like to use a jointer, don't forget the planer bed option. I am not putting down jointers and I am sure I should have cleaved to them early on but my habits are set on that. I prefer a planer bed anyday over a jointer and so to you fellas that think there is no other option don't forget about planer beds.
I highly prefer that method of making a flat side first. I have only used mine a handful of times but I "mastered" it immediately but I never could force myself to like my jointer so I sold it.

ronwood · January 28, 2007, 11:30:36 AM

kevjay,

Hope this not to dumb question how does the planer bed option work. To answer Dan question I just bought a 15 in byrd shelix through Grizzly. I don't have it installed yet.

Ron

Dan_Shade · January 28, 2007, 11:34:02 AM

it's tough to get a good edge on a planer, especially when the board is 8" wide

TexasTimbers · January 28, 2007, 12:03:17 PM

A planer bed simply extends the infeed/outfeed tables long enough to accomodate the full length of the board, just as you want on a jointer. the main difference is that the planer does the pulling/pushing and takes any human error out.
Jointer purists will argue it takes the "control" out and for them they are right.
With a shelix head and a long true, flat planer bed, the only purpose for a jointer is to edge a board. Dan is right there, but even then it is not a mandatory piece of equipment in the shop. I do all my edging on my split fence router table. Just as fast or faster, and a perfectly flat edge everytime as long as the fence is adjusted correctly, just as in the need to have the outfeed bed on a jointer at the right height. I have used both and it easier to see the outfeed fence on a router table than to have to squat and eyeball the lower jointer outfeed table as it is sometimes necessary to do.
A split fence router table or shaper is nothing but a horizontal jointer only faster to use.
This is my experience and opinion so those without jointers keep in mind jointer owners will tell you I am nuts . . . but i will pit my speed and accuracy against a jointer anyday.

Fla._Deadheader · January 28, 2007, 01:01:37 PM

QuoteI just bought a 15 in byrd shelix through Grizzly

DO NOT grab the head from the box without gloves. These things are heavy and sharp as razors. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ronwood · January 28, 2007, 08:05:40 PM

kevjay.

I have seen on my planer where the pressure of the rollers press the boards flat and the board tends to spring back after it comes our of the planer. How do you handle this situation?

Ron

TexasTimbers · January 28, 2007, 08:47:24 PM

Don't crank the handle down any harder than you would push down with your hands when running them over jointer knives.

metalspinner · January 29, 2007, 09:12:50 AM

Quoteso those without jointers keep in mind jointer owners will tell you I am nuts

... :D

OneWithWood · January 30, 2007, 11:41:51 AM

Dan, I have the G0490 and I am pleased with it. I have not done any major production work with it yet but it has been a pleasure to use when I have used it. The shelix heads would have been nice but I could not justify the extra dinero at this point.

brdmkr · January 30, 2007, 11:51:12 AM

With all the talk of Shelix heads I took a look at the new grizzly catalog last night. The 0586 jointer is available with a shelix or regular head. I think the difference was 375.00. The shelix head for the 0586 was 375.00. It seems logical to me that buying the straight head version AND a shelix head on the side would make a heap of sense ;)

In fact, when I stumble over and extra 375, I may just buy one of those heads and give it a try. Likely, I'll find something else to spend it on, as if I never know what I am missing... I'll be pleased with what I have.

flip · January 30, 2007, 05:28:23 PM

I love my 5hp 20" Griz planer and 3hp shaper, but you need a pretty good dust collection system. Jointers are still a mystery for me, I have an el-cheapo harbor freight 7" and can only straighten a 4' or smaller piece. From reading the longer the bed the better and if possible the spiral cutter head. I may buy a 3 blade soon and if the stuff we do starts paying, upgrade to the spiral.

Flip

TexasTimbers · January 30, 2007, 05:47:16 PM

flip you got a spiral on that 20"er?

Don_Papenburg · January 31, 2007, 08:50:27 PM

That is not a Shelix head in the Grizz , it is a spiral index cutter head . Look at it a little closer the cutter bits are parralel to the axis . A Shelix has the cutters on a helix as well as a spiral. I would have bought the 20 " with the spiral if they would have had it in 3ph . Realy wanted the 24" but it did not have spiral index head. unless I wanted to double my expendature and get the one with all the useless electronic controlls. I decided to rebuild my old HF planer . The interesting thing is that it has almost identical castings as the new Powermatic that has the Byrd Shelix head.

Dan_Shade · January 31, 2007, 09:11:05 PM

what's the difference, Don?

Don_Papenburg · January 31, 2007, 11:14:58 PM

The Grizz spiral has the cutters parralel to the axis of the cutter head . The Shelix has the cutters at an angle ,skewed , gives a smoother cut and reduces tearout especialy on figgured woods.

TexasTimbers · January 31, 2007, 11:31:13 PM

Exactly. I have been going back and forth on old iron and new cheaper and new not so cheaper. The retro heads from Byrd for some of the older iron are outta site. Some of the new stuff with the Bryd is outta site too.
I am looking at a couple of big old irons but niether had the heads listed on the Byrd website and so would be out of this world to have them make.
I want the widest I can get, and the market is loaded with wide old iron, if a guy wants to spend the coin and time to get them in ship shape.
I would also buy that 1033X if Griz would offer it in 3ph. I can't believe they don't. I'm sure it isn't an unlisted option, but I am gonna call and ask anyway.

Don_Papenburg · February 01, 2007, 11:26:48 PM

I wanted the 24" 3ph but I wanted a spiral cutter I called and the teck guy told me he would sell me a spiral cutter head but that it would come UPS and the planer truck freight. I was about to buy but decided to think about the deal. While thinking a light bulb went out , He had quoted me a price on a 20" cutter head. and a 24" planer. That is when I called Byrd They were more than happy to make a Shelix head for me . Infact my old head is boxed up waiting for the big brown truck. If you get an old planer ,Don't be shy about giving them a call 1 800 441 2973 .
I was looking through the Grizzly and Woodtek catalogs today and it looks like the Grizz Powermatic Woodtek Steel City and one or two other 15" planers are all the same castings . Just the bases and raising cranks change . Along with a few cosmetic parts.